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Thread: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

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    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    I have been to Spain quite a few times and enjoyed each visit the most recent
    was to Barcelona for a long weekend celebrating my 50th birthday and a fun
    time was had by all......




    Catalan referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood'

    Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says the Spanish region has won the right to
    statehood following a contentious referendum that was marred by violence.He said the
    door had been opened to a unilateral declaration of independence.

    Catalan officials later said 90% of those who voted backed independence in Sunday's
    vote. The turnout was 42.3%.Spain's constitutional court had declared the poll illegal
    and hundreds of people were injured as police used force to try to block voting.

    read more...



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41463719
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    ================================================== ==

    Catalonia referendum: 'Spanish authorities are the criminals'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9UGpBZz7WU

    Published on 1 Oct 2017
    The Spanish region of Catalonia is voting in a referendum on independence that has
    faced serious opposition from the country’s central government. Spanish police
    have been accused of carrying out a brutal crackdown against those participating in
    the referendum.Al Jazeera's John Hendren reports from Barcelona.

    ================================================== =
    ================================================== =

    Catalan Referendum: "What happened today was unacceptable"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutcUJ-sa0E

    Published on 1 Oct 2017...France 24

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    Catalan referendum: what is happening in Barcelona?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWCb31-YLlE

    Published on 1 Oct 2017...Channel 4 news
    Jonathan Rugman is in Barcelona to see what the reaction is to the referendum on
    Catalan independence. Violence has broken out between those wanting to vote face
    and the police trying to stop them. The Spanish government have said the vote is
    illegal, pro-referendum protesters have been camping out across the weekend at
    polling stations to ensure they stay open.

    ================================================== ====
    ================================================== ====



    Catalan referendum: Spain region 'not seeking traumatic split'


    Carles Puigdemont appealed for international mediation to help solve the growing crisis

    Catalan President Carles Puigdemont has said he is not planning a "traumatic" split with
    Spain, after a disputed independence referendum on Sunday.

    He said he wanted a new understanding with the central government in Madrid.

    Catalan officials say voters overwhelmingly backed secession. Madrid has warned it could
    suspend autonomy of the wealthy north-eastern region.Spain's top court banned the vote
    and almost 900 people were hurt as Spanish police tried to stop it going ahead.Officers
    from the national police and paramilitary Civil Guard seized ballot papers and boxes at
    a number of polling stations. Thirty-three police officers were injured on Sunday, Catalan
    medical officials said.

    read more....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41472985
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 2nd October 2017 at 21:55.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Spain like France , Germany , Italy , UK and many others are made up of smaller
    states and kingdoms that combined over the centuries for various reasons usually
    war or marriage.....

    Pick a century and the borders would have changed...



    ================================================== =

    2017.....




    Catalan separatism explained


    Published on 20 Sep 2017

    An impartial explanation of Catalan separatism

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIvclpJb05g
    Published on 7 Nov 2014
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 2nd October 2017 at 21:56.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Heavy handed tactics from the Spanish State will be counter productive.

    Silence in the face of Spanish State violence in the EU halls of power will wake a lot of people up.

    I love this guy , and his humour, but he might end up laughing on the other side of his face!

    Last edited by Baby Steps; 2nd October 2017 at 18:18.
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Quote I love this guy Risidas , and his humour, but he might end up laughing
    on the other side of his face!
    You might be right , Risidas was correct about Cameron and it reminded
    me of the classic Manuel clip from Fawlty Towers , which the EU is turning
    into. He also mentions Farage who took a call from Louise in Spain on
    his radio show live......Risidas does have an amusing if annoying laugh..LOL


    I know nothing ... I am from Barcelona



    ================================================

    Catalonia Caller Describes Scenes Of Panic And Fear During Independence Referendum

    Published on 1 Oct 2017

    Riot police have been deployed, and used rubber bullets, to try and shut
    down the Catalan referendum.Catalonia's emergency services say 38 people
    have been injured in clashes with Spanish police during today's indepenence vote.

    Rubber bullets were fired into crowds during a sit-down protest in Barcelona.
    Spain's central government ordered officers to shut down polling stations
    across the region in what it says is an illegal referendum.Louise is in a town
    south west of Barcelona, she told Nigel Farage on LBC people are very scared.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Once again, Joseph Farrell has an interesting take on the Catalan situation. His speculation is that the Catalan leaders see much more money being sent to Madrid than returns to Catalonia. Catalonia/ Barcelona is the hub in Spain for all illegal activities, be they drugs, prostitution, child slavery sales, etc. That is where the real money is. The leaders of Catalonia see this and want a bigger slice of that pie. They don't want independence, just more money. But that money is totally illicit. It comes from the dregs of human behavior. Money I would not touch. Yet that is what they want. An interesting take indeed Joseph. And now the leader of Catalonia is saying they don't want anything radical like independence, just negotiations. Ha! Mr Farrell may be onto something here. As sick and sordid as it is in the Kali Yuga.

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    Default Three myths about Catalonia’s independence movement


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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: a big fraud...!!!

    The referendum of Catalonia is a big fraud ... !!!

    This video is in Spanish, but it is self explanatory ... Catalan nationalist volunteers carry the ballot boxes before the voting starts inside the black bags, but by mistake, one falls to the ground, and everyone realizes that unrna already had votes inside ... !!!

    This has happened in many polling stations.

    https://youtu.be/XhssxLsM-k4

    Social networks are full of photos of people who have voted 4 or 5 times ...some of them here

    https://www.elconfidencial.com/espan...aluna_1453255/

    In other places nacionalists voted in the street several times, again without any control ...

    https://youtu.be/EL174sd2Tmw

    Of course, the polling stations were composed only by nationalists, so the counts of votes are not guaranteed either ...

    In one word...fraud...!!!

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    Default Re: Three myths about Catalonia’s independence movement

    Are you aware that's a European Council on Foreign Relations commentary ?

    P.S. The fact that somebody posted a video of themselves voting 5 times doesn't mean squat. The Scottish referendum had a hundred times more reported anomalies than the Catalan one did.

    Also, there was never a anything near a majority for independence in Catalonia until they completed a 15 year process of making constitutional amendments to their regional Statute, getting it passed by their own parliament, getting it passed by the Spanish parliament (successfully), holding a referendum on it and then finally, having it all thrown back in their face by a 6-4 majority verdict in the constitutional court. Even that action only was brought to bear after a retrospective challenge by the Spanish national conservatives.

    At that point the party that had held the centre ground of Catalan politics and had been unionist till then, threw in the towel and shifted the centre of gravity towards independence.

    Of course the Spanish constitution doesn't allow for secession, hence the goon squads being sent in to kick people's heads in while they're voting, spray them with rubber bullets, pull them out of voting stations by the hair and wallop them with battons. To most reasonable people, an "illegal referendum" means that it doesn't carry any statutory weight. But to some of a more medieval bent, it actually means you can't put bits of paper into boxes.

    If you really think it's a fraud, consider this for a moment: The brutality of Sunday wasn't very widespread. It was concentrated in a few select places but it was severe. The videos started appearing on the twitter stream bang on 9 O'Clock. Also, the Civil Guard paramilitary police could have closed down all the polling stations, but they didn't.

    Conclusion: the police raids were not "law enforcement", but a message. A message to the population which read "if you go out to vote today, this is what will happen to you".

    In other words, it amounted to the host national government threatening an entire population with violence to counter a civil act of expression that it found politically challenging. It wasn't "illegal", it was suspended by a Spanish judge and postponed. I've seen a lot of state coercion and propaganda in my time but never something as bare faced straight out of the Joseph Goebels handbook of mass population arm twisting as that.

    Their "Hotel California" constitution that's getting widely quoted at the moment is only 40 years old. If it was 140 years it might carry a bit of weight. The way things are going at the moment though they'll be lucky if it lasts another 10.
    Last edited by indigopete; 3rd October 2017 at 09:25.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Catalan referendum: Interview with Spain's Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Apxh3W10Uk

    Published on 2 Oct 2017
    Newsnight’s Mark Urban is joined by Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis
    to discuss the Catalan referendum. BBC Newsnight

    ==================================================
    ==================================================

    CATALONIA REFERENDUM - Watch our special edition


    Published on 2 Oct 2017...France 24
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 3rd October 2017 at 01:30.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Videos like these should speak for themselves, shame on the Spanish government.

    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Three myths about Catalonia’s independence movement

    Entire population?
    Only radicals make noise...most Catalonians treatened by the nazi radical of ANC and Omnium remains silent...And does not support puigdemont...!!!

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Quote Posted by Froddo (here)
    Entire population?
    Only radicals make noise...most Catalonians treatened by the nazi radical of ANC and Omnium remains silent...And does not support puigdemont...!!!
    I think you might have swallowed a tad too much troll coolaid from twitter feeds.

    About 40-50% support them, 10-20% support the Spanish nationalists and 30% are socialists. That last group is currently evaporating given the labour party's alignment with the conservatives of late. Carbon copy of what happened in Scotland post their 2014 referendum.

    10 years ago, support for Catalan independence from Spain barely got above 15%. The reason it's a majority now is not due to ANC "nazis" but to the fact that the region is no longer part of Spain voluntarily but through coercion.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    I totally disagree with you...
    Tell me, are you acting on behalf ANC or Omium Cultural...? Your speech totally correspond to them...

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Quote Posted by Froddo (here)
    I totally disagree with you...
    Tell me, are you acting on behalf ANC or Omium Cultural...? Your speech totally correspond to them...
    No. I am acting on behalf of myself - a British external observer who lives in Spain and my observations correspond almost exactly with those of Pepe Escobar (a Brazilian).



    Full article here: http://www.atimes.com/article/future...ake-catalonia/

    Note he mentions the principle of "separation of powers". You may or may not be aware of that principle but it's something you won't hear much about on the Spanish national troll infested comment columns and twitter feeds of the mainstream national media over here.

    As he says, it is indeed the "heart of the matter".

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Catalan referendum: Gabriel Gatehouse reports from Barcelona - BBC Newsnight



    Published on 3 Oct 2017
    What next after the contested Catalan referendum? Gabriel Gatehouse reports from Barcelona.

    =================================================
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    Nigel Farage says Catalonia referendum shows how the EU treat voters



    Published on 3 Oct 2017
    (3RD OCT 2017) Subscribe for more Nigel Farage content.

    =================================================
    =================================================





    Catalan referendum: Anti-police strike hits public services

    48 minutes ago
    From the section Europe

    Short vid on link...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41479048
    Firefighters joined the crowds in a day of defiant protests

    Thousands of people in Catalonia are rallying and blocking roads in protest over
    Spanish police violence during Sunday's independence referendum.There is little
    public transport across the region, after local trade unions called a strike.
    Barcelona's port was at a standstill, union sources said.Almost 900 people were
    hurt as police tried to prevent the vote. Thirty-three police officers were also injured.

    read more....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41479048

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    Central Barcelona in total gridlock as thousands rally after Catalonia referendum


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLKovcqeMbQ
    Published on 3 Oct 2017
    Thousands of protesters caused gridlock on the streets of central Barcelona on
    Tuesday morning, as they gathered in front of Placa de la Universitat to
    demonstrate against the Catalan independence referendum crackdown.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 3rd October 2017 at 17:28.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Stefan Molyneux walks through legislation and events that have brought
    Catalonia to the latest referendum.


    The Truth About The Catalonia Independence Referendum



    Published on 2 Oct 2017
    Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/stefan-molyneu...
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 3rd October 2017 at 18:19.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'



    Catalan referendum: Region's independence 'in matter of days'


    King Felipe VI: "Catalan society is fractured"

    Catalonia will declare independence from Spain in a matter of days,
    the leader of the autonomous region has told the BBC.In his first
    interview since Sunday's referendum, Carles Puigdemont said his
    government would "act at the end of this week or the beginning of next".

    Meanwhile, Spain's King Felipe VI said organisers of the vote put
    themselves "outside the law".He said the situation in Spain was
    "extremely serious", calling for unity.Hundreds of thousands of
    people across Catalonia have been protesting over Spanish police
    violence during the vote, during which nearly 900 people were hurt.
    During the vote, 33 police officers were also injured, local medical
    officials said.


    read more...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014


    ==============================================

    Catalonia strikes back over brutality

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXbB1Jb0kVk

    Published on 3 Oct 2017...France 24
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 3rd October 2017 at 22:24.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    THE DEBATE - Catalonia: What's the next move?



    Published on 3 Oct 2017...France 24

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    The Catalonian referendum was the topic of Nigel's radio show. I don't think Mr
    Junker will be tuning in....

    This is quite a lively and interesting phone in at times...

    The Nigel Farage Show: The EU's Response to Catalonia.
    Live LBC - 3rd October 2017



    Published on 3 Oct 2017
    The Nigel Farage Show:The EU's Response to Catalonia.
    Live LBC - 3rd October 2017. (Edited Version)
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 4th October 2017 at 00:14.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Catalans take to streets against police violence in referendum vote - BBC Newsnight



    Published on 4 Oct 2017
    Gabriel Gatehouse reports from Barcelona on the protests
    against police violence in the Catalan referendum.

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