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Thread: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Alex Salmond starts his new show just as RT has been ordered to file as a
    foreign agent in the US this week and pressure from some UK MP's.....



    ‘We will win!’ Puigdemont talks Catalan independence on Alex Salmond Show

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nNiVqIpqsk

    Published on 16 Nov 2017
    A defiant Carles Puigdemont says he’s confident the Catalan independence movement
    will prevail as he joins Alex Salmond, an outspoken proponent of Scottish departure
    from the UK, on Salmond’s new show set to premiere on RT.

    ================================================== ===

    EXCLUSIVE: Alex Salmond talks to Carles Puigdemont aprox 14mins in....



    Published on 16 Nov 2017
    In the first episode of The Alex Salmond Show the former Scottish
    First Minister talks to Catalan President Carles Puigdemont.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 16th November 2017 at 22:41.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Catalan crisis has "ruined everything" ........or has it ?
    Sky News



    Published on 17 Nov 2017
    Catalonia's fight to separate from the rest of Spain has divided a nation,
    seen political leaders arrested, and protests on the streets of Barcelona.

    Thousands of businesses have already left the region in the uncertainty
    that's followed, and some of the area's biggest employers have warned
    Sky News they will do the same, if independence goes ahead.

    Sky's business correspondent Adam Parsons has this special report.

    =================================================
    =================================================

    Spanish FM on Catalonia: 'We may have been naive' | DW English

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Wupp5IcL4

    Published on 15 Nov 2017
    Why has Spain failed to prevent its worst and most predictable crisis in decades?
    Tim Sebastian meets Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis on Conflict Zone this week.

    Catch our interview with Alfred Bosch from the pro-independence Republican Left of
    Catalonia party.here: https://youtu.be/Gh4hfdxrAog

    Conflict Zone is Deutsche Welle's top political interview. Every week, our hosts Tim
    Sebastian and Michel Friedman are face-to-face with global decision-makers,
    seeking straight answers to straight questions, putting the spotlight on
    controversial issues and calling the powerful to account.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 17th November 2017 at 18:45.

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  5. Link to Post #63
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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'



    Catalan arrest warrants withdrawn by Spain's Supreme Court

    15 minutes ago from Europe section...



    Campaigning for the vote officially began at midnight on Monday

    A Spanish judge has withdrawn an international arrest warrant for
    ousted Catalan President Carles Puigdemont and four other ministers.

    They fled to Belgium a month ago after declaring unilateral independence
    in a referendum ruled illegal by Spain.Despite the move, the judge said
    they still faced possible charges for sedition and rebellion.

    Rebellion is considered one of the most serious crimes in Spain, carrying
    a jail term of up to 30 years.Spanish Supreme Court judge Pablo Llareno
    announced the warrant's withdrawal on Tuesday morning, citing the
    willingness the Catalan leaders had shown to return ahead of fresh
    regional elections being held on 21 December.He said its removal would
    allow Spain full control over the investigation

    read more...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42237377

    =================================================

    Spain drops international arrest warrant for Catalonia ex-leader Puigdemont

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JEH2wfbI2I

    Published on 5 Dec 2017....France 24
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 5th December 2017 at 19:35.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Catalans return to polls in decisive legislative election: "A very high turn-out expected"



    Published on 21 Dec 2017...France 24

    ==================================================



    Catalonia election: Voters await result as polls close
    5 minutes ago
    Related TopicsCatalonia independence vote 2017




    Thursday's election could determine Catalonia's direction for years to come

    Counting is under way after record numbers voted in Catalonia's regional
    election, called by Spain following a controversial independence referendum.

    The snap election pits Catalan pro-independence parties against those who
    want the region to remain a semi-autonomous part of Spain.

    One exit poll suggested that separatist parties would win a majority.

    A BBC correspondent says there seems little prospect that the election
    will solve Catalonia's political crisis.The exit poll said the separatist
    Republican Left of Catalonia (ERC) and the unionist Citizens (Cs) were
    neck and neck in the race to become the biggest party in the new parliament.


    read more...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42435684


    =================================================

    What do the Catalan crisis and Harry Potter have in common? - BBC News

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06e8CfFNTVI
    Published on 21 Dec 2017
    What does the Catalan Crisis and Harry Potter have in common?
    Catalan street artist, La Castillo explains...
    Artist portrait illustration: Victoria Grainger

    =================================================

    Catalonia Regional Election: Divided region votes in tight poll

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98wmnrqmVu4
    Published on 21 Dec 2017...France 24

    =================================================
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 21st December 2017 at 20:41.

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  9. Link to Post #65
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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'



    Catalonia election: Separatist parties keep their majority



    Pro-independence parties have retained their majority

    Catalan separatist parties are on track to win most seats in the new regional
    parliament, setting the stage for more confrontation with Spain's government.
    However the Citizens party, which wants Catalonia to remain a semi-autonomous
    part of Spain, is the biggest party.As a result, it is unclear who will be given the
    right to form a government.The Madrid government stripped Catalonia of its
    autonomy and called the election after declaring an October independence
    referendum illegal.

    With more than 95% of votes counted, Citizens (Cs) had 25%, winning 36 seats
    in the 135-seat chamber.But the pro-independence parties Together for Catalonia,
    Republican Left of Catalonia and Popular Unity were together on course to win a
    total of 70 seats, giving them a majority.


    Read more.....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42450745

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Catalonia pro-independence parties secure absolute majority in parliament



    Published on 22 Dec 2017
    Pro-independence parties have again secured an absolute majority in the
    Catalan parliament, with former regional leader Carles Puigdemont poised
    to regain the power he had been stripped of by Madrid. READ MORE: https://on.rt.com/8vdd

    ================================================
    ================================================

    Catalonia election: Puigdemont calls for talks with Spain - BBC News

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dvoctl1qUc
    Published on 22 Dec 2017
    Catalonia's ousted separatist leader, Carles Puigdemont, has called for new talks
    with Spain following a snap regional election.He said he wanted discussions to take
    place in Brussels, where he is living in self-imposed exile.He earlier declared that
    the Spanish state had been defeated, as separatist parties still hold a slim, reduced
    majority.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    21-Dec-17 Election Special: ‘Pro-independence parties keep majority’

    Catalan News



    Published on 21 Dec 2017
    The pro-independence parties keep their majority in the Catalan election.
    Altogether they’ve got 70 seats, two more than the minimum needed for
    the majority. Yet the winner of the election is the unionist Ciutadans, with
    36 seats, and one out of every four votes. But this hasn’t been enough for
    the unionist bloc to stop a new pro-independence majority emerging in the
    parliament. While the Socialists haven’t grown as expected, support for
    Mariano Rajoy’s People’s Party has drastically dropped. Only 4% of citizens
    have voted for the party which suspended self-rule in Catalonia and forced
    the election in the first place, after dismissing the Catalan government. In
    between Catalonia in Common failed to be decisive in the chamber. In fact,
    the Barcelona mayor´s party even suffered some losses.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'



    Catalonia election: Spain PM Rajoy rejects Puigdemont talks call



    Mr Rajoy (L) avoided naming Mr Puigdemont during a Friday press conference

    Spain's Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has rebuffed calls by Catalonia's
    ousted leader, Carles Puigdemont, to meet for new talks outside the country.

    Mr Rajoy said he would negotiate with whoever became the new head of
    the Catalan government but they would have to take up their post in Catalonia.

    Mr Puigdemont earlier called for talks to take place in Brussels, where he is
    living in self-imposed exile.

    Separatist parties won a majority in a Thursday's snap regional election.

    Mr Rajoy avoided naming Mr Puigdemont during a press conference on Friday
    but said he was prepared to hold talks with whoever took control of the Catalan
    regional government "in a realistic way and inside the law".

    "I offer Catalonia this because I care about the people," he said.

    read more.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42458717

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'



    Catalonia election: Spain's King Felipe warns separatists



    King Felipe's core message of national unity remained unchanged

    The king of Spain has issued a renewed call for unity amid the
    ongoing fallout from Catalonia's outlawed independence referendum.

    In his Christmas message, Felipe VI urged the people of Catalonia to
    choose coexistence rather than confrontation. He did not directly
    mention the leaders of the Catalan separatist movement.In the wake
    of October's referendum in the region, the king heavily criticised those
    spearheading Catalonia's independence movement.

    Some Catalans were angered by this, and the fact that he made no
    mention of the heavy-handed Spanish police operation to block the vote.
    BBC Europe correspondent Kevin Connolly says the king's core underlying
    message about the importance of national unity remains unchanged,
    but his Christmas broadcast was more cautious and conciliatory.

    The king said the politicians elected to the Catalan parliament this week
    which included a narrow separatist majority - had to "face the problems
    that affect all Catalans, with respect to plurality and bearing in mind their
    responsibility to the common good".

    "The road cannot lead again to confrontation and exclusion, which as we
    already know generate nothing but discord, uncertainty and discouragement,"
    he said from his Madrid residence.

    He praised what he called Catalonia's openness and creative spirit.

    Read more...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42474835

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Interesting event that may suggest Catalonia exists as a independent nation in a parallel reality.

    The strange mystery of the man from Taured

    It’s July 1954; a hot day. A man arrives at Tokyo airport in Japan. He’s of Caucasian appearance and conventional-looking. But the officials are suspicious.

    On checking his passport, they see that he hails from a country called Taured. The passport looked genuine, except for the fact that there is no such country as Taured – well, at least in our dimension.

    The man is interrogated, and asked to point out where his country supposedly exists on a map.

    He immediately points his finger towards the Principality of Andorra, but becomes angry and confused. He’s never heard of Andorra, and can’t understand why his homeland of Taured isn’t there.

    According to him it should have been, for it had existed for more than 1,000 years!

    Customs officials found him in possession of money from several different European currencies.

    His passport had been stamped by many airports around the globe, including previous visits to Tokyo.

    Baffled, they took him to a local hotel and placed him in a room with two guards outside until they could get to the bottom of the mystery.

    The company he claimed to work for had no knowledge of him, although he had copious amounts of documentation to prove his point.

    The hotel he claimed to have a reservation for had never heard of him either.

    The company officials in Tokyo he was there to do business with? Yup, you’ve guessed it – they just shook their heads too.

    Later, when the hotel room he was held in was opened, the man had disappeared.

    The police established that he could not have escaped out of the window – the room was several floors up, and there was no balcony. ?

    He was never seen again, and the mystery was never solved.

    Link: http://coolinterestingstuff.com/the-...an-from-taured

    Principality of Andorra

    The official language is Catalan.

    Location of Principality of Andorra and Catalonia, image:


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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'



    Carles Puigdemont: Former Catalan president 'detained'

    5 minutes ago..25/3/18


    Mr Puigdemont is wanted in Spain on charges of rebellion and sedition

    The former leader of Catalonia, Carles Puigdemont, has been detained
    in Germany, his lawyer says. He was held after crossing the border from
    Denmark, on the way to Belgium, Jaume Alonso-Cuevillas tweeted. He
    is wanted in Spain for sedition.Mr Puigdemont had been living in
    self-imposed exile in Belgium since last October's banned referendum
    that backed Catalonia's unilateral secession bid.

    A European arrest warrant was recently reactivated against him.

    Tensions in Catalonia are very high and its separatist leaders have
    abandoned plans to name a new president following the arrest of the
    latest candidate.Jordi Turull was detained on Friday along with five
    other leaders, sparking protests and clashes with police in Barcelona.


    read more....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43532217

    ================================================== ==


    Ex-Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont detained in Germany

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pwHurZ8WxM

    Published on 25 Mar 2018


    Carles Puigdemont has been detained in Germany, according to the former Catalan
    president’s lawyer.

    An arrest warrant had been issued for Puigdemont in Finland after the former
    president visited the country for talks with lawmakers. He was returning to
    Belgium, where he lives in self-imposed exile, when he was detained by German
    authorities after crossing the border from Denmark.
    Check out http://rt.com
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 25th March 2018 at 14:02.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    ‘#WakeUpEurope & help Catalonia’: German politicians visit Puigdemont in prison



    RT.. Published on 2 Apr 2018
    Former Catalan president Carles Puigdemont said he is “not a criminal”
    in the first interview since his arrest. The exiled leader reaffirmed the
    region’s campaign for independence, saying it’s based on democracy
    and non-violence.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Just a quick update.

    9 Catalan separatist leaders have been jailed for 100 years for taking part in a symbolic non-binding referendum.

    This has angered a right wing faction of the Spanish elite who in the court called for 74 years imprisonment for each separatist which would have totalled 74 years x 9 = 666 years.

    The mainstream Spanish media which is mainly Mediaset (Berlusconi) have repeatedly shown one act of aggression towards a Spanish Bigot waving a Spanish flag in front of hundreds of Catalans.

    Despite 11th hour pleas to sit down and talk. Despite the UN demanding the release of all political prisoners in Spain. The Regime has spoken and the silence coming from Brussels is deafening.

    It feels as if there may be some Power out there, desperate to stop humanity evolving and content in dividing us forever in an energetic cul-de-sac of negativity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ison-sentences

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Barcelona hit by more unrest over sentencing of Catalan separatists
    15 Oct, 2019

    Police and protesters clash in city centre, as well as other Catalonia towns

    Clashes between protesters and police erupted in Barcelona late on Tuesday after peaceful demonstrations over the jailing of nine Catalan separatist leaders descended into running battles.

    Protesters lit fires and erected makeshift barricades in the centre of the city before the crowd was dispersed by baton charges by Spanish and Catalan police, as far as Passeig de Gràcia, the elegant boulevard that is home to many of the city’s most exclusive shops and hotels.

    By mid-evening, dozens of fires had been lit on the boulevard and surrounding streets as helicopters hovered overhead. Makeshift barricades were set up with rubbish containers as skirmishes between demonstrators and police continued, with riot police firing numerous rounds of rubber bullets.

    Similar scenes were witnessed in the other main Catalan cities of Tarragona, Girona and Lleida, where dozens of people were reportedly injured.








    Police clash with demonstrators in Girona

    Earlier in the day, the grassroots organisation Assamblea Nacional Catalana (ANC) called for a candlelit protest outside the offices of the Spanish government in Barcelona and other Spanish cities in response to Monday’s sentencing of the nine Catalan politicians and activists for their part in the illegal referendum and unilateral declaration of independence in 2017.

    The disturbances follow violence on Monday night when thousands of pro-independence protesters attempted to shut down Barcelona airport, leading to police charges that left more than 130 people injured.

    Although Tuesday’s demonstrations were called by the ANC, which has previously organised the independence movement’s peaceful and spectacular demonstrations, it appears that it has lost the initiative to the so-called Committees for the Defence of the Republic (CDRs) who favour direct action and confrontation.

    The CDRs are thought to be behind the Tsunami Democràtic, the social network group that coordinated Monday’s airport protest.

    The Catalan president, Quim Torra, has been criticised for calling for civil disobedience while also sending in Catalan riot police to restore order.

    Torra said on Tuesday that the convicted prisoners were proud of the demonstrators and urged them to continue to mobilise over the coming days. A major demonstration and general strike has been called for Friday.

    What do the lengthy Catalan sentences mean?

    Despite the long sentences handed down by the supreme court on 14 October, some of the nine leaders convicted of sedition and misuse of public funds could soon be eligible to apply for “semi-liberty”, allowing them out of prison on a regular basis.

    Josep María Tamarit, a professor of criminal law at the Open University of Catalonia, said that in cases where a sentence of five years or more was handed out, a court could stipulate “that half the sentence has to be served before prisoners are eligible for semi-liberty”.

    However, the supreme court turned down prosecutors’ request for such an order in the Catalan case.

    That means that Jordi Sànchez and Jordi Cuixart – who have now served two years in pre-trial detention – could apply to be allowed out on licence as soon as they have served a quarter of their sentences, which would be in January next year.

    Oriol Junqueras, who received the longest sentence – 13 years – would have to wait about 15 months before applying.

    Those convicted can complain to Spain’s constitutional court and then put their case before the European court of human rights in Strasbourg.

    The Spanish government has the power to issue pardons if they are requested and if the person convicted shows repentance for their crime. However, such a move would have profound political consequences.

    Opponents of Spain’s acting prime minister, the socialist leader Pedro Sánchez, would accused him of bowing before the separatists were his government to even consider a pardon.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 16th October 2019 at 22:52.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    I lived in Catalonia for a short time, many years ago. Can someone help me to understand what they are unhappy about at the moment?

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    1. My wife wants a divorce
    2. I blame her & tell her she’s mad
    3. She insists
    4. I beat her. I lock her in a room
    5. I run a PR campaign with my neighbours. They back me. They have other issues
    6. I lock her up for 10 years
    7. Problem solved?

    Norway, Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania gained their liberty thanks to the right of self-determination not so long ago, while the "mother"-countries called it illegal. Now their political leaders suffer massive amnesia in case of Catalonia.

    Today in the Washington Post they stated “If Spain does not want to sit on the other side of the table, the international community will have to force them to do it"

    Thanks to Hong Kongs protest movement “Be water, my friend”. Which is about moving fluidly around government sites to be heard. Using technology such as encrypted messaging App Telegram. Now, In Barcelona, we have Tsunami D, a hat tip to Hong Kong which is working very effectively.

    Last edited by sunwings; 17th October 2019 at 22:15.

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Protests have been taking place all over Spain in very large numbers. Police brutality has also occurred in Madrid and Bilbao against those opposing the government. Spain is very much divided and a foreign power must now intervene to find a middle ground. Tomorrow the whole of Catalonia is taking part in a strike. Millions will take to the street. As one Madrid Politician stated all this is happening because they wanted to vote and we did not let them.








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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Thanks Sunwings. They want a divorce. I am interested in why Catalan wants a divorce, the same as I would be if a friend wanted to divorce her husband. When I lived there they were the most prosperous part of Spain and people seemed pretty happy. Has this changed?

    I know that Barcelona has experienced a housing shortage due to intense tourism and the likes of Air B and B. Maybe what they should do is divorce the tourist trade. From what I have been reading it is deforming economies and creates more advantages than disadvantages to the local population.

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    UK Avalon Member sunwings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    The easiest analogy here is Spain is England and Catalonia is Scotland. Two very different cultural regions. It is very typical here to see Scottish flags in protests.



    The big difference is the language being used to describe the situation today. The Unionists are stating Catalonia is Spanish, all under the same flag but the treatment of Catalonia is very different to other regions.



    It took me a while but after eleven years of living here, Catalans and Spanish are very different. However, they did not choose to be different 1000 years of history has created this region. Catalonia bans bullfighting, Catalan is the only language spoken by teachers in schools and Catalans want to be ruled autonomously.

    Last month we saw Boris Johnson walking around Northern areas of England without out too much trouble and the Queen is welcomed wherever she goes. The king of Spain and the Prime Minister of Spain cannot walk the streets of Catalonia. I think this speaks volumes!

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    Default Re: Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    The easiest analogy here is Spain is England and Catalonia is Scotland. Two very different cultural regions. It is very typical here to see Scottish flags in protests.



    The big difference is the language being used to describe the situation today. The Unionists are stating Catalonia is Spanish, all under the same flag but the treatment of Catalonia is very different to other regions.



    It took me a while but after eleven years of living here, Catalans and Spanish are very different. However, they did not choose to be different 1000 years of history has created this region. Catalonia bans bullfighting, Catalan is the only language spoken by teachers in schools and Catalans want to be ruled autonomously.

    Last month we saw Boris Johnson walking around Northern areas of England without out too much trouble and the Queen is welcomed wherever she goes. The king of Spain and the Prime Minister of Spain cannot walk the streets of Catalonia. I think this speaks volumes!
    You are saying above (in large bold, my emphasis) that a majority of Catalans want independence? Do you have anything to support that assertion?

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