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Thread: Have we ever been on the Moon?

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    Croatia Moderator Franny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    One thing that has always intrigued me is rockets. I have never seen anything about NASA having a rocket that can take off, land, then take off again. How did they land a rocket on the moon and take off again? Why could they not land that rocket back on Earth after returning from the moon instead of splashing down into the ocean. That would include the space shuttle landing like an airplane rather than a rocket. I've never seen anything, but please let me know if you have.

    A few months ago I was watching a video and there was a scene where a NASA official was talking about how if they could just develop rocket technology that would open up so many opportunities for space travel. I got a screen clip of it just for fun.

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    Avalon Member Orph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Due to the low gravity and lack of atmosphere, it takes very little thrust blast off from the surface of the moon. There's very little resistance to overcome. There's no need for a full blown rocket like they use here on earth.
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    A gem of a movie. A must watch. You just gotta love the sarcasm's towards the Government, Astronauts and NASA. A 5 Star Video IMO. Well worth the 46 minutes.
    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 14th April 2019 at 14:21.
    "Although I Live On This World, I Choose Not To Live In It"
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    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by WhiteFeather (here)
    Interesting points so far on the video Turiya posted previously.
    1. They had real time Communications at 240,000 Miles. Highly Doubtful.
    2. The batteries running all the power on the LEM, supporting all electronics, Oxygen, Air Condition Ventilation Systems etc etc. Highly Doubtful.
    1) The Apollo VHF communications were independently received by well-equipped radio amateurs, mostly in the US, but also elsewhere. Nothing particularly hard doing that. Earth-Moon-Earth Moon-bounce signals (with about 250 dB path loss!) were first achieved by amateurs in 1953, so amateur reception of Moon-based transmitters was comparatively easy.

    The signals received by amateurs from the Apollo missions had the Doppler shift, polarization, delay and path loss all consistent with the Apollo equipment transmitting from the Moon. (Apollo 'deniers' are unaware of these documented facts.)

    2) The Apollo fuel-cell power sources are well documented.

    Hopes this helps.
    Last edited by Nick Matkin; 15th April 2019 at 14:48.

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    Avalon Member Operator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Nick Matkin (here)
    Quote Posted by WhiteFeather (here)
    Interesting points so far on the video Turiya posted previously.
    1. They had real time Communications at 240,000 Miles. Highly Doubtful.
    2. The batteries running all the power on the LEM, supporting all electronics, Oxygen, Air Condition Ventilation Systems etc etc. Highly Doubtful.
    1) The Apollo VHF communications were independently received by well-equipped radio amateurs, mostly in the US, but also elsewhere. Nothing particularly hard doing that. Earth-Moon-Earth Moon-bounce signals (with about 250 dB path loss!) were first achieved by amateurs in 1953, so amateur reception of Moon-based transmitters was comparatively easy.

    The signals received by amateurs from the Apollo missions had the Doppler shift, polarization, delay and path loss all consistent with the Apollo equipment transmitting from the Moon. (Apollo 'deniers' are unaware of these documented facts.)

    2) The Apollo fuel-cell power sources are well documented.

    Hopes this helps.
    I think after all the posts the discussion goes back and forth ... and should perhaps be focussed differently.
    When I look at the Apollo pictures I have strong doubts that this was it. I have a strong feeling that
    this is the mock-up version of what is shown to the public. After all the Israelis crashed their vehicle on the
    moon just days ago. That's how difficult it is. Would any authority like to have spectators when such risky
    endeavours are undertaken? I guess not.

    But it does not rule out that succesful missions were undertaken in a different way. So both views
    can be true and defended at the same time. If we take both views as a composite possibility a new view
    arises. Why the secrecy and what is really happening on the moon?

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    United States Avalon Member Intranuclear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    The Israeli craft had a minor glitch and because there was no human, the glitch was not caught in time. When the descent engines reignited, it was too late.
    As for other successful moon landings, the Russian Lunakhod program (started in Jan 1969) predated the American's landing and in fact NASA consulted Russia on dealing with automation and how to navigate with a time lag of several seconds (no AI at that time).

    NASA does and did heavily doctor their publicly released pictures as does EVERY single publication. Also, perhaps people are confusing the numerous sets that NASA uses for handling emergencies and path planning. They try to duplicate the alien environment on the sets accurately for assisting either the AI or the humans.
    Could this be the source of the confusion?

    The biggest problem is that NASA is NOT a public organization as most of the equipment used is of military origin or related. There is massive secrecy regarding most aspects of missions as they are paranoid about spying.

    Regardless, all of this will be moot in the coming years as humans return to the moon.

    Oh and the silliness regarding the killer Van Allen Belts .... the moon shots specifically took a longer polar route to escape most of the radiation. But I think no amount of evidence will convince those who were not intimately involved in the program.

    Oh and one more thing, the Israeli mission I think cost about 100 million which is one thousand times less that what Apollo cost.
    Last edited by Intranuclear; 16th April 2019 at 02:31.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by latte (here)
    One thing that has always intrigued me is rockets. I have never seen anything about NASA having a rocket that can take off, land, then take off again. How did they land a rocket on the moon and take off again? Why could they not land that rocket back on Earth after returning from the moon instead of splashing down into the ocean. That would include the space shuttle landing like an airplane rather than a rocket. I've never seen anything, but please let me know if you have.
    So you've not done any basic research on rockets even though they've always intrigued you. OK.

    They didn't land a rocket on the moon.


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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Sorry Nick. I'm truly not convinced we have been to the moon, as I'm more convinced we have not, this is how i see it. Has anyone physically looked at the integrity of the Apollo 11 LEM with respect to its design and construction? It seriously looks like it was put together by a small group of 6th grade students at an elementary school science fair (Photo Below). So many other questions that boggles me, How did they actually fit the 3 supposedly 4 wheeled moon rovers on that thing including themselves and all the gear etc. I'm still highly skeptical about the whole mission, call me crazy, I've been called worse. How about passing through The Intense Van Allen Radiation Belts. And with regards to its landing and taking off, There were no burn markings from the propulsion systems left on the surface of the moon. There were no stars in the background of the photo shoots. How did they attempt such an unbelievable mission in its first try? Way too many inconsistencies in my opinion. Have you watched any of the very recent youtube videos that were posted? Im more convinced we haven't been to the moon.
    Sorry, that's just my opinion.

    Again, an interesting perspective here.



    And seriously, does this LEM look like it's capable of space travel? Sheet Metal with Rivets, PVC Piping, Curtain Rods, Gold Aluminum Foil wrapped around the landing gear. And what part of the module did they occupy? Was It The lower part of the LEM?
    Does this LEM look shanty to anyone else, or is it just me?

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 16th April 2019 at 12:46.
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    Mourning Dove Salish


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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    I got a box of trivia slash propaganda for Christmas, and each day of the year has a new piece of trivia.

    Yesterdays trivia was "Neil Armstrong's first step on the moon was with his left foot"

    Assuming for a moment that he did not in fact walk on the moon, isn't that kind of offensive? Just a thought. I really dislike my Trivia calendar, in case it's not obviously apparent

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?



    This is an excellent thread, packed with detailed information, to accompany the newer one here. (They both cover similar ground)

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    United States Avalon Member WhiteFeather's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    I just can't seem to get how they passed the Van Allen Radiation belt without burning to a crisp. Has anyone taken a real real good look at the LEM. I'm being serious. Again, it looks like a science project made by 8th graders at the annual science fair. Sheet metal, PVC pipes, Shower Curtain Rods , aluminum foil, and gold duct tape. C'mon peeps have a gander. I beg of you......

    PS. Where are the stars?
    "Although I Live On This World, I Choose Not To Live In It"
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by WhiteFeather (here)
    I just can't seem to get how they passed the Van Allen Radiation belt without burning to a crisp.
    Why?

    "I can't imagine how it is possible ..." is a pretty lame argument.

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