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Thread: Have we ever been on the Moon?

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    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    There is some evidence that they lie to us. For example they tell us in their own numbers and details that Mars has 1/6th the atmosphere of earth which is no atmosphere at all basically. So there is no air there and yet they install parachutes on the landing capsules and devices they send there. So the chute is not going to open in 1/6th the atmosphere of earth so what opens the chute! What air supports the craft to soften the landing? Do they fill the chute with hot exhaust? What is it made of to not burn up? You see ? There are issues with it all around. I don't think the are being truthful with the facts.

    Chances are the moon and mars are not the distance from us they tell us either. Perhaps much closer.Oh they can show you the math and the calculations. Yeah I took the physics classes where we calculated all that and the diameter and so on. Not convinced even the teacher knows what he passes on here to be honest. It's like repeating something they heard from their teacher but they don't know for sure why it works, what it means all the way through they just know how to express it on paper. Is it accurate? Who would know? They could tell you anything. There is a video on youtube of a guy using a laser camera to gauge distance pointing it at the moon I think in NZ and his data said the moon was 412 miles out there. So are some of the ancient myths about the sun and the moon parking on platforms from seeing these low hanging full moons where it appears to literally sit on the ocean? And just 412 miles away? I wish I could find that video! He changed the batteries and it still read the same! Anyway, who really knows?
    For Mars the parachutes are bigger. Much bigger! (But you surely knew that...?)

    Regarding the distance/size of the Moon, radio amateurs to the rescue again! Look up Earth-Moon-Earth (EME) communications. I won't link to any specific websites since someone will say I've chosen fake ones, so maybe you can find your own.

    Actually I'll save you the bother by letting you know that amateur radio enthusiasts have for decades bounced signals off the Moon, mostly on 2 metres/144 MHz, but also on other frequencies. Suffice to say such a process has the propagation delay, path loss, Doppler shift and polarisation changes consistent with radio reflections from a rocky body about 250,000 miles away and 2,200 miles in diameter in a 28-day orbit around the earth.

    So it's astonishing to me that any adult can suggest "who really knows?" And if the Moon really were 412 miles away, just how does that work?

    It seems some people really do inhabit some sort of information-deficit bubble. Just how can this be? (No one need bother answering that one... Trying to be patient and understanding here, but reached my limit. Sorry.)

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  3. Link to Post #282
    United States Avalon Member Ratszinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Nick Matkin (here)
    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    There is some evidence that they lie to us. For example they tell us in their own numbers and details that Mars has 1/6th the atmosphere of earth which is no atmosphere at all basically. So there is no air there and yet they install parachutes on the landing capsules and devices they send there. So the chute is not going to open in 1/6th the atmosphere of earth so what opens the chute! What air supports the craft to soften the landing? Do they fill the chute with hot exhaust? What is it made of to not burn up? You see ? There are issues with it all around. I don't think the are being truthful with the facts.

    Chances are the moon and mars are not the distance from us they tell us either. Perhaps much closer.Oh they can show you the math and the calculations. Yeah I took the physics classes where we calculated all that and the diameter and so on. Not convinced even the teacher knows what he passes on here to be honest. It's like repeating something they heard from their teacher but they don't know for sure why it works, what it means all the way through they just know how to express it on paper. Is it accurate? Who would know? They could tell you anything. There is a video on youtube of a guy using a laser camera to gauge distance pointing it at the moon I think in NZ and his data said the moon was 412 miles out there. So are some of the ancient myths about the sun and the moon parking on platforms from seeing these low hanging full moons where it appears to literally sit on the ocean? And just 412 miles away? I wish I could find that video! He changed the batteries and it still read the same! Anyway, who really knows?
    For Mars the parachutes are bigger. Much bigger! (But you surely knew that...?)

    Regarding the distance/size of the Moon, radio amateurs to the rescue again! Look up Earth-Moon-Earth (EME) communications. I won't link to any specific websites since someone will say I've chosen fake ones, so maybe you can find your own.

    Actually I'll save you the bother by letting you know that amateur radio enthusiasts have for decades bounced signals off the Moon, mostly on 2 metres/144 MHz, but also on other frequencies. Suffice to say such a process has the propagation delay, path loss, Doppler shift and polarisation changes consistent with radio reflections from a rocky body about 250,000 miles away and 2,200 miles in diameter in a 28-day orbit around the earth.

    So it's astonishing to me that any adult can suggest "who really knows?" And if the Moon really were 412 miles away, just how does that work?

    It seems some people really do inhabit some sort of information-deficit bubble. Just how can this be? (No one need boIt's ther answering that one... Trying to be patient and understanding here, but reached my limit. Sorry.)
    Well it is quite astounding that anyone can say with assurance they "KNOW" something isn't it? Scientists especially do this all the time and for many years in fact and they get angry when you suggest they are off in la la land don't they? You bet but you know what? More often than not they come back and find out they didn't know at all did they!? Nope and I doubt they do now no matter what radio astronomers or anyone else says. It is ridiculous the 412 miles. But the point, while extreme is that I'm sick of scientists in particular pretending to know something telling everyone this is so and discovering years later they didn't know it all. In fact new technology proves what we thought we knew wrong all the time. While I don't doubt they have found things that appear to work they do this with the sun constantly but they still haven't figure it or the moon out lets not pretend here like they did. They still debate all about it including if it's actually hollow, machine or what. I do know they have dishes on the moon and they bounce signals off it as you say. But I also know they have all been caught in lies before so excuse me if I dare to question what they or you think you know about anything!
    Last edited by Ratszinger; 22nd September 2019 at 14:04.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

  4. Link to Post #283
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    @Ratszinger

    Science is self correcting, admittedly sometimes it takes years, but the point is it DOES correct itself in light of new evidence. Maybe you missed that.

    (BTW, radio signals were first bounced off the Moon in 1946. Moon-based dishes are not necessary.)

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  6. Link to Post #284
    United States Avalon Member Ratszinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    No I didn't miss it that is the point. It would be far better to say it as it is, this is what we think we see, or this is what we think we know but you see to know something means there is no room for doubt. So when someone says they know something it should mean it's not something that will change. If it changes it could not have ever been something known you see that right? Its a belief at best not knowledge. But presented as knowledge.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Nick Matkin (here)
    ---
    Regarding the distance/size of the Moon, radio amateurs to the rescue again! Look up Earth-Moon-Earth (EME) communications. I won't link to any specific websites since someone will say I've chosen fake ones, so maybe you can find your own.

    Actually I'll save you the bother by letting you know that amateur radio enthusiasts have for decades bounced signals off the Moon, mostly on 2 metres/144 MHz, but also on other frequencies. Suffice to say such a process has the propagation delay, path loss, Doppler shift and polarisation changes consistent with radio reflections from a rocky body about 250,000 miles away and 2,200 miles in diameter in a 28-day orbit around the earth.
    --
    I agree, the EME experiments are a great example of how normal every day people can verify for themselves some of the facts.
    (provided that the speed of light and the assumption that radio waves travel with the same speed (all the way in a straight line) are correct)

    The same goes for use of OSCAR-AMSAT satellites etc. For the flatearthers who say there no satellites ... there are some you
    can use yourself. But all of this does not definitively prove the earth is round either.

    We just have to be careful what checking the facts really proves ...

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  9. Link to Post #286
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    A very interesting mainstream 2012 documentary: Apollo 13, The Real Story.

    I watched it very carefully. I'm as certain as I can be that astronauts Jim Lovell and Fred Haise (as well as NASA Flight Director Gene Kranz, who was so well played by Ed Harris in the 1995 Hollywood movie), extensively featuring in the documentary, were telling the total truth about their dramatic experience.

    Lovell and Haise in particular come over as being genial, genuine, open, totally human, and actually pretty heroic.

    Of course, because they never actually landed on the moon, there may have been very little to keep quiet about. I know it's been suggested that the entire emergency was choreographed in low earth orbit to recapture the interest of the blasé American public, but I truly don't think that was the case.


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