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Thread: Have we ever been on the Moon?

  1. Link to Post #181
    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Bluegreen (here)
    An interesting and intelligent exchange from forum members ...

    ...
    Yes Bluegreen,

    Many different points of view and it goes to show that the moon landing is a topic that is not so easy to crack.

    Perhaps there is technological evidence (like Carmody) suggests that a real moon landing was possible then, but to me, someone with only some rudimentary knowledge about technology and physics, it's difficult to take that road to make a fair judgement.

    I'm also still on the fence about whether or not the moon landing were real, just like yoyoyo.
    All the arguments put together make it pretty unlikely that they really went there with the apollo missions, but at the same time we have to take into account that in all complex situations, you can find anomalies and put the facts in such a context that it becomes a suspicious thing altogether.

    But..... With the Van Allen belt, the arrearage to the Russians, the photo anomalies, the weird live feed (not so live) and other evidence....
    I give it a 80 % versus 20% that they didn't go to the moon with the apollo missions.


    Thanks for your story about your friend who visited Kubric Ulli.
    I didn't consider it like that yet.
    I speculated that if they would have the technology to do it at the time, they would have used it, just to avoid risking the change to being exposed about a possible fake landing.
    But speculating about motives etc is a slippery slope in the end.

    I like Barts energy and his articulate manner of speaking.
    I watched another (earlier) duco from him though and this one had me frowning here and there.
    He was pretty passive (and sometimes openly) aggressive there and that was difficult to watch for me.
    Perhaps, confronting those astronauts like that is a way to get some more information on the table, but acting like that is definitely not my cup of tea.

    Last edited by Eram; 12th June 2016 at 09:54.
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  3. Link to Post #182
    UK Avalon Member YoYoYo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    This is all food for thought. I have a feeling there's a wider range of possible conclusions yet.

    All are rather too oddly specific though.

    For example: Entertaining the idea that Neil and Buzz went to the moon and also the landing and film was faked because they knew in advance they wouldn't be able to use Neils camera footage, because of all the ..

    and there we could insert any number of things! So it feels healthier for me to stay a little confused. Its confusing when we're lied to. That we are being tricked at all, one way or the other is evidence itself in my humble opinion.
    • Time travel: Evidence sometimes points to this so I entertain the idea
    • Moon and Mars bases: Lots of disagreeing parties agree on this so perhaps. Alarmingly would explain alot
    • Apollo 11-17 hoax videos and photos: Evidence overwhelmingly suggests so
    • Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin went to the moon: I believe they did

    I think there's more than just did we go to the moon OR was it faked?

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    United States Avalon Member Bluegreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Such as ... ?

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  7. Link to Post #184
    UK Avalon Member YoYoYo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Bluegreen (here)
    Such as ... ?
    did we go to the moon OR it was faked OR both?

    Edit: If you were asking after the things Neil might have filmed... well Gary McKinnon comes to mind with the unprocessed pictures he found.
    Last edited by YoYoYo; 14th June 2016 at 22:27.

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  9. Link to Post #185
    United States Avalon Member Bluegreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Hmm ... good one ... food for thought indeed ...

    Q: Who made the risky and potentially embarrassing decision to make a live television broadcast of the first Moon landing?
    A: I don't know.
    Q: How many times have humans landed on the Moon?
    A: According to NASA, six, the last being in 1972.
    Q: How many humans have walked on the Moon?
    A: According to NASA, twelve.
    http://www.universetoday.com/55512/h...d-on-the-moon/

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  11. Link to Post #186
    UK Avalon Member Star Mariner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    The indicatives are that they were warned off the moon, to not commit to the landings, but had to go forward and fake them.

    That they had the technology and much more technology that was beyond what was required to land on the moon.

    But, that landing on the moon was forbidden. So they had to fake it.

    That is one of the proposed scenarios that covers all sides of this.
    Quite possibly, it's almost exactly as I see it but with a slight difference (which I also posted about here).

    Probable reasons why they went to the moon --THAT THE PUBLIC KNOW--
    Apollo was obviously not an off the books, Secret Space Program, deal. It was public domain, in front of the whole world. The key reasons for this were probably A), JFK challenged them to do so, first of all, in his famous 1962 speech; B) by putting American boots on the lunar surface they would upstage the Russians (proving American supremacy); C) to push forward conventional rocket technology - for NASA to perfect that technology, and to ultimately control access to space with said conventional technology.

    Possible reasons why they went to the moon --THAT THE PUBLIC DO NOT KNOW--
    I'm thinking to investigate an alien presence on the lunar surface. Or alien tech, alien artefacts, alien architecture. This would be something the PTB would definitely want to record, explore, and potentially retrieve.

    The Technological Challenge
    But NASA were confronted with insurmountable technical difficulties in actually getting to the Moon with their conventional rocket technology - exactly as Bart Sibrel points out in the interview. Possibly Grissom knew this too, sadly. After all, asking NASA to fly out into space and travel to another celestial body -with a rocket, with essentially Victorian technology- would be a bit like asking 'Intel' to design a computer chip that would be capable of today's computational performance, but using the technology of the 1950s'. Good luck with that...


    See this clip -behind the scenes- from this important movie (one of my favourites from the 70s)


    Problem/Solution
    Maybe it was along the lines of propulsion, maybe life-support, maybe radiation shielding, or any number of other stumbling blocks that were beyond the scope of possibility (and maybe still are today which is why no one has ever gone back), but in a nutshell they couldn't pull it off. Therefore, they had to 'fudge it', and get a leg-up with 'non-conventional technology' to get all the astronauts safely to the Moon, and most importantly, back again in one piece for each of the seven missions. There was absolutely no guarantee of that without special hi-tech fail-safes, (let's say).

    Perhaps Sibrel is right, and they travelled half-way or part way to the Moon, and then faked the actual landings (a Kubrik sleight of hand filmic master-class - it's not out of the question). Or perhaps, as I'm thinking, they did go all the way and physically landed (but doing so with at least some 'exotic' technological help), and then faked, or partially faked/doctored, the footage and photographs of the lunar surface.

    Why fake the footage?
    Firstly, to cover-up what's actually there (alien artefacts maybe). Secondly, create a cover story for what Apollo was actually doing there. Moon-rocks and 'lunar geology' were probably not high on their agenda. They wanted to go (for reasons stated); they needed to go, and wanted to see what was really there. But of course, they couldn't possibly allow anyone else to see what was really there (or risk capturing something on film they would NOT be able to 'explain away'). All we got to see was a very expensive, seemingly superficial, publicity stunt: driving rovers, playing golf, a few cursory experiments, and picking up lots and lots and lots of rocks.

    Conclusion
    Rightly or wrongly, I still think Apollo -at least Apollo 11 at any rate- really DID go to the moon, but the mission was partially fake, and the footage was partially fake, in order to supress/confuse certain secret aspects to the program. The capsule, and the LEM, may have had to employ advanced secret technology to get the job done (safely). Footage from inside the capsule is probably real. Footage shot from lunar orbit might well be real also. But much of the footage we see of the surface was probably not the real surface, not the real moon, and not the real mission. This was the cover, possibly shot in a studio, or in the Nevada desert etc (particularly the high res stuff).

    So what we are confronted with is a clever blend of reality and fakery -disinfo counter-intelligence often works best when blending heavy slices of fakery with certain measured quantities of reality. It's why 'conspiracy theorists' -think JFK as well- chase their tails for decades and decades and never find the ultimate truth. The available evidence is rarely black and white. It's most often grey.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Massimo Mazzuco ("The new American Century" and "September 11, the new Pearl Harbor") is making a new documentary and it is going to be about the Apollo project.

    Can't wait to see it when it comes out.

    hylozoic tenet: “Consciousness sleeps in the stone, dreams in the plant, awakens in the animal, and becomes self-conscious in man.”

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    UK Avalon Member Mike Gorman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    I believe they went to the moon.

    I'm a technology guy. I know the technology. There is no conceivable reason they could not have gone. There is the van Allen belt thing but a thin shield of polypropylene is enough to deflect it, and the missions were always perfectly planned in timing related to potential flaring of radiation. As well the exposure time was short.

    What you do see a lot of is the idea or thought... of the potential of faking the landings, by people who do not have the requisite technological background to reach proper conclusion, talking to people who do not have the requisite technological background to reach conclusion.

    Why they stopped and never went back.... is the far more important question set.

    Which takes you to the secondary path of a secret space program and a breakaway civilization. Which is the far more likely scenario.

    Technologically, regarding a secret space program and breakaway group... there is a trail a few thousand miles long and many miles wide, thousands and thousands of data points ....going back a century or more...that fit with perfect correlation in all details and science....if one does the investigative work. which the average person will not commit to and have little capacity to effectively evaluate the data, if they should ever find it.

    So out trots the moon landing hoax meme, as it fits what the common public is mentally equipped to sink their reach and minds into.

    It is used as a deflection, a weapon to disarm and ridicule more serious work.
    Yes me too, they went, and left all kinds of technical kit up there, notable the laser reflector which works to this day, you can't get that kind of equipment set up unless you are there to do so-shine a laser on the moon and receive the reflection!

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  17. Link to Post #189
    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    They should remote view it, that would settle the case once and for all. I believe that they faked the footage (possibly with mastermind Kubrick) and did indeed go there, but not as they told us and certainly not in that tin can. Also because the moon is an artificial satellite with it's inhabitants and occupants, it's highly unlikely that our governments would ever tell us publicly the full truth about it. Most people couldn't even believe it... They have no idea what kind of technology is being hidden away and used in top secret projects.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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  19. Link to Post #190
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    There is a interesting interview with Bart Sibrel :

    The “scientific community”, in their emotional ecstasy to pat themselves on the back for being so capable, threw out their own strict guidelines for independent verification and duplication, as if counting the potentially counterfeit ten thousand dollar cash wedding gift at the reception in front of their affluently questionable father-in-law was an insult. They willingly assumed the complete integrity of the data they were presented with, without question, simply because that was their preferred world to live in, one in which their profession was superior, rather than corrupt. Later, when serious questions arose as to the authenticity of the “moon landing” data, in their pride to have not been wrong in the first place, the “scientific community” started making one preposterous defense after another, much like O.J. Simpson’s legal team, as to why blatantly condemning evidence to the crime was not, as it should be, overtly implicating the guilt of the party involved. The more that time goes by, the more reluctant they are to give up their long held positions, no matter how wrong they are.

    Their own heralded top scientist, Carl Sagan, had this to say about their self-induced “science-trance”

    “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”



    Now that the world has been so successfully lulled into a habit-forming hypnosis of the mainstream media though such mesmerizing “televised” events as the “moon landings”, England’s Channel 5, as well as numerous recent other television networks, not only re-run continually documentaries showing the “glory” of the falsified “moon landings” to reinforce the previous brainwashing, they specifically produce programs to meet the growing truthful opposition head-on, to reassure and pacify the awakening public that they were not deceived by their governments and television networks regarding the “moon landings”, that they are instead, fully worthy of continued unreserved trust, because if the truth came out, they would no longer be.

    For those interested in my full interview, as to why and how the “moon landings” were indeed falsified, click below on the Youtube Link of the never-before-seen unedited interview in its entirety.

    Bart Sibrel

    Last edited by Gaia; 21st June 2016 at 21:56.

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    United States Avalon Member Foxie Loxie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Whew! Amazing stuff! I immediately thought about the moon "ringing like a bell" when they crashed the lander into it??? Does this really all mean that we have never been to the moon?

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
    Whew! Amazing stuff! I immediately thought about the moon "ringing like a bell" when they crashed the lander into it??? Does this really all mean that we have never been to the moon?
    There is a interesting documentary about those facts with originals footage: Hope you enjoy!

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/truth...moon-landings/
    Last edited by Gaia; 21st June 2016 at 21:57.

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    New Zealand Avalon Member HaveBlue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Thin bits of plastic shield against the radiation of the Van Allen belts! Did someone forget to tell NASA?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlXG0REiVzE

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  27. Link to Post #194
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Argos (here)
    With due respect to all Avalonians, the question of whether Apollo 11 was a hoax is not necessarily settled by a fiat reference to technology.
    When Carmody writes, "There is no conceivable reason they could not have gone [to the moon]," he misses the mark, in my humble opinion. Whether one argues a moon landing to be conceivable or inconceivable has scant bearing on its actuality. Conceivability falls conditionally under modal logic. Actuality, on the other hand, is subsumed under propositional logic.
    Sorry, but Carmody is right, and as far as I'm concerned, it's a matter of fact that Man did land on the moon on one occasion at the very, very least.

    What is far more interesting is to examine what really went on in the space program and to find out about some of the discoveries from the Apollo missions. First, read Nexus Magazine Oct-Nov 2014, and you will find out how unconventional technology may have been used to 'assist' the Moon landings. I can't find a free source for the article, but much of the material is here:

    https://thestarnations.wordpress.com...-interstellar/

    If you want an insider's story of what happened prior to and during the first moon landing, I recommend William Tompkins' recent book, 'Selected by Extraterrestrials: My life in the top secret world of UFOs, think-tanks and Nordic secretaries'. It's badly written and, worse still, extremely poorly edited, but it represents the only first-hand account of how the secret space program grew up in parallel with the Apollo missions. Tompkins was involved in both, and he states clearly that, at the very pinnacle of NASA (i.e., Werner von Braun and Kurt Debus), the presence of aliens and reverse-engineered technology was an accepted fact.

    Tompkins describes what Messrs. Armstrong and Aldrin really saw when they stepped out on the moon, with a description of large spacecraft lined up along the crater rim.

    https://www.amazon.com/Selected-Extr...raterrestrials

    Don't forget that the detritus left behind by the astronauts on the moon has been observed from space. This is mentioned in many articles debunking the fantasy that Man did not go to the Moon during the Apollo program. Here are just two of them:

    http://www.historyrundown.com/top-5-...as-not-a-hoax/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5599372.html

    If you're really determined to believe that the Moon landings only took place in a film studio, you should attempt to take in the full picture and not just focus on information that reinforces your preferred viewpoint. BTW, I have looked at the other side of the story too. For example, I have watched some of Marcus Allen's presentations on the Moon photos, and not found them convincing.

    In the early 1970s, I was at Newcastle University studying Geophysics and Planetary Physics. Our Professor, Keith Runcorn, was very close to the moon program, and a lot of exciting information was coming out at that time on the results of the Apollo missions. I remember very well the day on which we discussed the evidence from the seismograph left behind on the Moon to record the impact of the discarded Lunar Module after it was fired back into the Moon. When we were told that it 'rang like a bell', with reverberations that continued for many minutes, I remember thinking to myself that there was no way the Moon could be a normal planetary body if it were completely hollow. Now, however, it is generally believed that the moon has a core not too dissimilar to that of the Earth. The point is that to record these reverberations, someone had to leave the seismograph on the Moon, along with the mirror for laser range-finding!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Moon

    Personally, I incline to the view of Henry Deacon, namely that the Apollo Missions did land on the Moon, but with a bit of of a leg-up from reverse-engineered technology. I quote below from the Project Camelot transcript, which you can find at

    http://projectcamelot.org/livermore_physicist_4.html

    "We asked Henry if the Apollo astronauts had actually gone to the moon. This was a question that had not actually previously occurred to us in earlier meetings. There was a long pause before Henry replied saying: Yes, they had. But it was not a simple answer.

    Most of the missions did indeed go to the moon, but some photos and film footage were fabricated for PR purposes, and - remarkably – some advanced technology was borrowed: a lightweight nano tech-skin shielding combined with a charged-field technology were utilized on some of the craft to provide very effective radiation shielding, combined with other technologies used to protect the astronauts from Gamma and other hazardous radiations and energetic particles during the journeys. Additional advanced “alien” technologies were added to land the Lunar Module and assist take-off from the moon.

    Some Apollo astronauts were aware of these technologies (though only a couple were aware of the alternative space program). This accounts for some general reluctance to be interviewed or to speak openly on the subject. Their anger at those who claim they never went at all is understandable, because they did indeed reach the moon. They were very brave men... and they had some help."

    Do try and get a copy of the Nexus Magazine article.

    Best regards,

    John
    Last edited by Longjohn; 29th June 2016 at 07:46.

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  29. Link to Post #195
    United States Avalon Member mpennery's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Hello folks. Help me out here. I just watched this fascinating 9 min video that was shared by ForbiddenknowledgeTV.

    From the mouths of NASA's own astronauts.

    https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/nas...t-to-the-moon/



    We know of many other questionable aspects of the moon landings yet then we have all the info on the secret space program. What's going on here? Any chance the entire secret space program is a giant boondoggle to steal even more money? My best guess had always been that we had actually gone and they just lied about how and we were shown fake pics and video. This video made me wonder if the con job was a little bigger.

    Matt
    "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness."
    - Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    This is an odd thing for an Astronaut to say even if its taken
    out of context.

    NASA Astronaut Don Pettit We Can't Go Back To The Moon.



    Published on 4 May 2017

    ================================================== ==
    ================================================== ==


    There is a lot going on in the space industry with Elon Musks recent presentation
    about going to the Moon and Mars by 2022 .

    Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-25lz8ecocQ

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1182682

    ================================================== ==
    ================================================== ==

    Also the Russian Space agency has just signed a deal with NASA to create a Deep
    space gateway orbiting the moon. Even with all this Russia gate rubbish going on.

    Moon mission Russia and USA to build space station orbiting the moon.


    Published on 1 Oct 2017
    Russia and the US are teaming up for a project to build a space station orbiting the
    Moon. RT spoke to former International Space Station commander Leroy Chiao,
    who thinks the project will help the nations to improve their relations on Earth.

    ================================================== =
    ================================================== =

    Also this vid was put up on RT..........Certainly looks odd.

    First time in the Universe: Spacewalk filmed in 360



    pub 3 Oct 2017
    This is the first-ever panoramic video shot in open space by the crew of the
    International Space Station. The 360 video was produced by RT in collaboration
    with the Russian space agency and leading spacecraft producer Energia.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 5th October 2017 at 22:18.

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  33. Link to Post #197
    Switzerland Avalon Guide: Here to help
     
    Nasu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    I posted these vids on another thread but think they are just as relevant here...

    We all remember the time as children that we realized for ourselves that we had been lied to about Santa Clause for example. A well meaning lie perhaps. But one perpetrated against us by everyone we knew, everyone we trusted, everyone we believed in. Perhaps like me you pretended to believe in Santa for a while after this realization, so that the toys and presents didn't stop coming!! Lol.

    I think as adults when we see the scale of the lies about us, perpetrated by those we trusted, anything and everything could then be perceived as a lie. In this way even the stars above us and the ground beneath our feet could theoretically be a con too. I don't believe in the flat earth theory, but I do think NASA is and has lied to us about a great many things, I just wonder why, to what end, for what purpose? A money pit is my best guess. Here's some interesting vids, not proof of anything, but food for thought none the less...x... N








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  35. Link to Post #198
    Avalon Member Star Tsar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Meanwhile on the otherside of town...



    What about the premise that they did infact go to the Moon but just not as portrayed to the general public? (Allows for thread expansion too.)
    Last edited by Star Tsar; 5th October 2017 at 23:00.
    I for one will join in with anyone, I don't care what color you are as long as you want to change this miserable condition that exists on this Earth - Malcolm X / Tsar Of The Star

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  37. Link to Post #199
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    This is a thread with some good vids on which may need updating.

    My view is we did go to the moon with help from either the SSP or some one else.
    The NASA version is difficult to swallow....Stanley Kubrick's role is hard to ignore.

    Quote Richplanet - New evidence on Stanley Kubrick faking the Apollo Moon landing
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...rick+moon+hoax

    RICHPLANET TV - Stanley Kubrick & The Moon Landings - 03/11/2015


    Published on 6 Nov 2015
    In previous shows Richard D. Hall has discussed the moon landings and the many
    problems with the official story. In this weeks show he looks in a bit more depth at
    the person who is often cited as being the film director of the hoaxed moon
    landings. Carl James has found out a considerable amount about Stanley Kubrick
    and reveals many pieces of circumstantial evidence which seem to point to
    Kubrick's possible involvement. This is a subject which mainstream media never
    represents correctly and even uses shills in attempts to ridicule moon hoax
    researchers, whose best evidence is usually ignored. Carl James is the author
    of "Science Fiction and the Hidden Global Agenda", which examines the role of
    science fiction in the shaping of public perception.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 5th October 2017 at 22:16.

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  39. Link to Post #200
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    i wonder what genius thought up "lying" to everyone in the world. Oh, more money to continue reverse engineering of craft and space station.
    Got it. they can't be trusted to tell all even if and when we enter space. They will not be allowed. They are the reason we are quarantined now. This isn't their first planet to strip resources and enslave races of civilizations.
    I'm just glad those who quarantined them here, are coming to get them out of here. Just grateful.

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