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Thread: Have we ever been on the Moon?

  1. Link to Post #161
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    In an earlier # 53 I posted a vid about Soviets Rocket Tech
    and I just saw this news item which is interesting...

    US to buy Russian engines for space rocket launches, politicians try to block order



    Published on 10 Mar 2016

    Eight more Russian engines have been ordered for space rocket launches in the United States,
    despite political fallout around the move. Russian engines are widely used in rockets launched
    in the US, but that's now become a political issue, with some politicians strongly advocating for
    an alternative supplier.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    One of the best I've seen.

    He connnects and interprets a lot of data into the context behind and the cause for the fake moon landing.

    I wish I was better in a writing a proper introduction, beause this interview deserves one.

    I can't stop but wondering about a fake moon landing and the possibility of the existence of a secret space program at the same time.
    In my mind, the possibility of having them both is .. slim.. at best.

    Last edited by Eram; 11th June 2016 at 06:12. Reason: changing youtube link, because first one was taken down.
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  4. Link to Post #163
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    One of the reasons I always thought the Moon Landing was faked was because the
    coverage was sooooo boring. Shortly afterwards, people were complaining they
    couldn't watch "I Love Lucy!" -- it was that boring.

    There are many other reasons to believe it was faked, as well.
    The Coke bottle is a very interesting one.
    Explanations for faux pas (or was it a clue) compare well with the
    "weather balloons" explanation for Roswell crashed spaceship.
    The destruction of the Moon Landing videos -- or was it recording football games
    over the videos? -- was also a give-away.
    Meanwhile, I doubt that every TV network junked their film on it and I'm sure e
    veryone would love to see the faked and ghostly video.

    Another give-away was the LEM landing module -- you can find a big old picture of it at the
    Smithsonian -- it's rather embarrassing to think anything like that could have made it either
    landing on the moon or roaring off back to the spaceship.

    The astronauts also seem to be incoherent on the issue --


    PS: A lot of government money keeps disappearing so I imagine
    it's going into some kind of a secret project.
    Last edited by Curious77; 9th June 2016 at 08:07.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Mr. Sibrel speaks cogently, decisively, and compellingly on this topic.

    I enjoyed this interview.

    For years, I have sought to find just one person, authorized to speak publicly on behalf of NASA and the government, who could counter Mr. Sibrel's argumentation cogently, decisively, and compellingly. That search has been futile.

    Additionally, I have sought to find just one similar person who could explain the many physical, architectural, and logistical anomalies connected with the 9/11 incident. And this search has been futile. (Surprise!)

    Etc., Etc.

    I wish Mr. Sibrel--and all truth-seekers wherever they be found--the very best of success and continued strength to battle the principalities and powers of darkness.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    For sure evidence overwhelmingly suggests the famous moon landing was faked. But yet I believe evidence from Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong which means I believe they went to the moon. Long story short I cant shake either so called 'sides' of the argument. Perhaps evidence from both sides is true. I believe the evidence Mr. Sibrel draws from. The conclusion mr Sibrel comes to about Neil Armstrongs 'one of truths protective layers' comment is that it suggests he didn't go to the moon. While I'm believing Neil Armstrong went to the moon I draw from wider possible conclusions. I'm not disputing mr Sibrels excellent evidence.

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  10. Link to Post #166
    United States Avalon Member Bluegreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Posted by Wade Frazier two days ago:

    "Bart Sibrel was a TV producer and got ahold of some Apollo 11 footage that he misinterpreted as evidence of faked Moon landings. His presentation had me going for a couple of days, until I realized that his evidence did not depict what it purported that it did, but he and I had a three hour conversation back in 2001.

    Whether Bart really had anything was beside the point. Bart thought he had something, and announced to the local TV station that he was going to bring the smoking gun to the TV station for immediate broadcast. It looks like Bart ran afoul of the ET cover-up, not the faked Moon landing cover-up. It was hard to know at the time just what Bart had ahold of, but a funny thing happened on the way to the TV station: Bart's car was intercepted and he was arrested, his tape of "The Footage" was seized, and he was drugged and thrown into a mental institution in the remote countryside. He said that some "White Hat" person looked after him while he was incarcerated there, and he later escaped the institution "Deliverance"-style, and made it back home. Did Bart really have the smoking gun of Moon landings or the ET cover-up? No, but he acted like he did, and that set the wheels in motion to prevent something from being aired to the public that TPTB did not want aired. In my opinion, once they viewed Bart's "smoking gun", they had a good laugh and were no longer concerned with Bart and his "escape" did not matter to them, but they could not take the chance that Bart really had something. Nipping it in the bud early is far easier than damage control later, spinning disinformation, etc"

    http://ahealedplanet.net/cover-up.htm#sibrel
    Last edited by Bluegreen; 10th June 2016 at 10:53. Reason: link

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  12. Link to Post #167
    Avalon Member sigma6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by YoYoYo (here)
    For sure evidence overwhelmingly suggests the famous moon landing was faked. But yet I believe evidence from Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong which means I believe they went to the moon. Long story short I cant shake either so called 'sides' of the argument. Perhaps evidence from both sides is true. I believe the evidence Mr. Sibrel draws from. The conclusion mr Sibrel comes to about Neil Armstrongs 'one of truths protective layers' comment is that it suggests he didn't go to the moon. While I'm believing Neil Armstrong went to the moon I draw from wider possible conclusions. I'm not disputing mr Sibrels excellent evidence.
    Freemason's are have sworn to lie to keep their own "truths" protected... so you can't believe anything they say by logical definition... i.e. in my book, telling the truth half the time and lying the other half... = 100% lying... on top of that who knows what they did to these guys pychologically Buzz has sure changed his tune over the years... like he was given the "go ahead" to start talking about "ufos" etc...
    Last edited by sigma6; 11th June 2016 at 06:35.
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by sigma6 (here)
    ...
    I always appreciate your point of view sigma6 but the jury is still out for me on this one.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    .
    Bart Sibrel mentions Bill Kaysing several times. Kaysing passed away in April 2005, so this interview must be over 10 years old. His Wiki page is here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Kaysing

    This is well worth watching (uploaded by Sibrel himself in 2013)


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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Bluegreen (here)
    Posted by Wade Frazier two days ago:

    "Bart Sibrel was a TV producer and got ahold of some Apollo 11 footage that he misinterpreted as evidence of faked Moon landings. His presentation had me going for a couple of days, until I realized that his evidence did not depict what it purported that it did, but he and I had a three hour conversation back in 2001.

    Whether Bart really had anything was beside the point. Bart thought he had something, and announced to the local TV station that he was going to bring the smoking gun to the TV station for immediate broadcast. It looks like Bart ran afoul of the ET cover-up, not the faked Moon landing cover-up. It was hard to know at the time just what Bart had ahold of, but a funny thing happened on the way to the TV station: Bart's car was intercepted and he was arrested, his tape of "The Footage" was seized, and he was drugged and thrown into a mental institution in the remote countryside. He said that some "White Hat" person looked after him while he was incarcerated there, and he later escaped the institution "Deliverance"-style, and made it back home. Did Bart really have the smoking gun of Moon landings or the ET cover-up? No, but he acted like he did, and that set the wheels in motion to prevent something from being aired to the public that TPTB did not want aired. In my opinion, once they viewed Bart's "smoking gun", they had a good laugh and were no longer concerned with Bart and his "escape" did not matter to them, but they could not take the chance that Bart really had something. Nipping it in the bud early is far easier than damage control later, spinning disinformation, etc"

    http://ahealedplanet.net/cover-up.htm#sibrel
    Yes, BG -but what does Wade really figure out about if moon landings were hoaxed? I read this too, along with his goings on about the debate of moon no moon with Brian O'leary and it appears that he can't spill the beans or fully explain. Wade states in big essey that he is 99% sure they went? But I don't think he elaborates much further beyond that. With Van Allen radiation and tech that was pretty much weak, what did they do a Henry Deacon jump, jump ,jump,jump around jump room move? Couldn't resist folks that's a Badger reference for you non-cheese heads in the audience today. Go bucky!

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  20. Link to Post #171
    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    I believe they went to the moon.

    I'm a technology guy. I know the technology. There is no conceivable reason they could not have gone. There is the van Allen belt thing but a thin shield of polypropylene is enough to deflect it, and the missions were always perfectly planned in timing related to potential flaring of radiation. As well the exposure time was short.

    What you do see a lot of is the idea or thought... of the potential of faking the landings, by people who do not have the requisite technological background to reach proper conclusion, talking to people who do not have the requisite technological background to reach conclusion.

    Why they stopped and never went back.... is the far more important question set.

    Which takes you to the secondary path of a secret space program and a breakaway civilization. Which is the far more likely scenario.

    Technologically, regarding a secret space program and breakaway group... there is a trail a few thousand miles long and many miles wide, thousands and thousands of data points ....going back a century or more...that fit with perfect correlation in all details and science....if one does the investigative work. which the average person will not commit to and have little capacity to effectively evaluate the data, if they should ever find it.

    So out trots the moon landing hoax meme, as it fits what the common public is mentally equipped to sink their reach and minds into.

    It is used as a deflection, a weapon to disarm and ridicule more serious work.
    Last edited by Carmody; 10th June 2016 at 18:45.
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    What I can't reconcile is the discrepancy between the moon 'yes or no' and the very real time--travel of the Mars projects written of by Alfred L. Webre and others.

    If time--travel is possible to go to Mars it's possible to go to the moon or places on Earth.

    It seems like two different realities are at play.

    I believe time travel is real and has been done by people in our time. What say you, Avalonians?
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    With due respect to all Avalonians, the question of whether Apollo 11 was a hoax is not necessarily settled by a fiat reference to technology.

    The history of science, especially since the late 18th century, is replete with credentialed scientists, experts in their respective disciplines ("technology guys," pace Carmody), who perseverated ad nauseam why something was or was not possible, reasonable, or achievable. What so many of these men had in common--besides being wrong--were lacunae in perspective, arising from, I think, a certain defect in logic.

    This defect manifests in two ways. The first is that they were Sophists. They believed in the perfectability of man, i.e. the notion that technological knowledge improved not only the condition of man, but also man qua man, that is, man as he is in himself--as knower. The second arises from an illicit conflation of logical categories. And by this I mean they often argued blithely, asserting the actuality of something based merely on its conceivability.

    When Carmody writes, "There is no conceivable reason they could not have gone [to the moon]," he misses the mark, in my humble opinion. Whether one argues a moon landing to be conceivable or inconceivable has scant bearing on its actuality. Conceivability falls conditionally under modal logic. Actuality, on the other hand, is subsumed under propositional logic.

    To argue from one mode to the other often involves one in a contradiction. For example, one could state a fact, saying that a book is on a table. But that same one would err should he assert that it's inconceivable that the book ever could be elsewhere. (For surely, reasonable people agree: the book doesn't always have to be on a table). And vice versa, just because it's conceivable that a book could be on a table, doesn't guarantee that it is so in actuality.

    I myself could have recourse to this form of argumentation by saying something as silly as, "there is no conceivable reason why I couldn't float to Europe from the USA in a rubber inner tube." And in saying this, imply that either I have done so in the past or am likely to do so successfully in the future, if only I should try. Speaking thusly, I would conflate disparate modes of logic--conceivability and actuality-- in a preposterous manner.

    When it concerns moon landings, hoaxes, and governmental disclosures, I'd rather couch the arguments in terms of probability. Now, given the incontrovertible evidence of corruption, malfeasance, manipulation, and mendacity in the highest reaches of centralized governments, I'd prefer to play the game of connect the dots. I ask myself what might be the probability that the official story is true? And when I connect the dots with respect to the "data" that swirls about the Apollo program, I always get the same picture. It's a connect-the-dots picture of four letters: L..I..E..S

    Just my $0.02, folks.

    Peace to all.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by Eram (here)
    One of the best I've seen.

    He connnects and interprets a lot of data into the context behind and the cause for the fake moon landing.

    I wish I was better in a writing a proper introduction, beause this interview deserves one.

    I can't stop but wondering about a fake moon landing and the possibility of the existence of a secret space program at the same time.
    In my mind, the possibility of having them both is .. slim.. at best.

    The secret space program coexisting with a hoaxed moon landing?
    Absolutely, if you consider the real purpose of public-ity...:namely using the power of the public consciousness towards one's own ends. So this was about the manipulation of public opinion and emotions towards a specific purpose:
    Using the energy which lies latent inside the mass-mind to bring about a shift in the cold war, to get rid of the 'enemy', and to then move towards greater momentum in bringing about the world superstate under one's own umbrella.

    Kubrik's involvement was probably voluntary at the time, as they sucessfully convinced him that he would be saving the free world. Only later did he discover to his dismay that they had an agenda more evil than he could ever have imagined.
    Hence he gave us Eyes Wide Shut.
    Back in 1977 a friend of mine who at the time was working as editor for Ridley Scott, dropped by my house, beside himself with excitement as he had that day visited Kubrik's home. Kubrik was like a god to him. The report he gave me about that visit I will never forget, and it was from that memory that I started much later, in 1998, to look into the possibility that Kubrik had created those famous photos on a giant set. One picture showed a footprint in the moon dust, right in the center undernearh the lunar lander, which would have been impossible to create in a real scenario, with no astronaut leg long enough to have reached there. This was what convinced me. More so than the fanning shadows....The fact that they already had access to more advanced technology at the time had to be kept secret at all cost...but they needed to do this hoaxed event as a PR exercise, as a giant public psy op, to bring down the Soviets.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    What I can't reconcile is the discrepancy between the moon 'yes or no' and the very real time--travel of the Mars projects written of by Alfred L. Webre and others.

    If time--travel is possible to go to Mars it's possible to go to the moon or places on Earth.

    It seems like two different realities are at play.

    I believe time travel is real and has been done by people in our time. What say you, Avalonians?
    • Time travel, yes.
    • Current Moon and Mars bases, yes.
    • Apollo 11-17 hoax videos and photos, yes.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Thank you Bill.

    I feared I'd be blasted from on high, but that is my 2 cents worth--for what it's worth.
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    Quote Why they stopped and never went back.... is the far more important question set.
    is consistent with them having never went...

    If they went it was a different group with different technology... so the public show and the tin can technology had to be abruptly stopped, because it was dangerously impossible and expensive... everything we saw on television was faked... the pictures were Hollywood production fake...

    A cover for what they were really doing... so there you go... they were lying (with what they were showing us) and they were telling the truth... (about actually getting there with their secret technology)

    re: time travel, has anyone seen the Alice in Wonderland sequel? very interesting... it's pretty much established what a "time machine vehicle" looks like in movies now... sure makes me wonder how they settled on that... (beside that it looks cool...)
    Last edited by sigma6; 11th June 2016 at 06:45.
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    This is the video that Bart Sibel presented as evidence.



    I have no idea whether it's true or otherwise. The whole subject reeks of corruption influencing truth.

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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    An interesting and intelligent exchange from forum members ...

    Thank you, Snoweagle, for posting the video in question. It does nothing to discredit any opinions expressed so far. Sigma6 says, "Why they stopped and never went back ... is consistent with them never having went" makes perfect sense. Also perfectly understandable to me (for a change) are Carmody's comments. I'm not a technology guy, wouldn't pretend to be one. I can't even fix a leaky faucet. Forum members know that my primary interests are music and the arts, and if my amplifier breaks, I can't fix that either. So, it must be said, that while I can read about the Moon landing and know what they're talking about, I really don't know what they're talking about.

    I've been reading Wade Frazier on a regular basis for several years, and have become convinced that he never "talks out of his hat" and tells the truth as he sees it at all times. He's pretty sure it happened. Ditto for Bill Ryan, who from his comments seems to think it was faked. Personal experience is the best teacher; thank you Ulli for sharing yours.

    Everything about the Moon landing was unprecedented, at least according to what we've been told, including the live television broadcast. How could a live television broadcast from the Moon work like a charm the very first time it was tried? Well, maybe they did try it before and filmed nothing, I don't know. The internet tells me the video feed went to four different places on three continents, and the "TV Show" I watched in 1969 came from Australia. However, those responsible, while initially elated, did not see what they expected to see. Hmm ...

    If I were calling the shots, here's what I would do: I would have Stanley Kubrick, or someone equally talented with experience in both moviemaking and live theater, film the exact same events taking place on the Moon with my actors on a Hollywood set simultaneously. Then, if an alien walked up to Neil Armstrong and said "Hi" or he had an ordinary heart attack and fell down and didn't move, or whatever, I'd simply switch the feed.

    "The jury is still out ..." - YoYoYo

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have we ever been on the Moon?

    The indicatives are that they were warned off the moon, to not commit to the landings, but had to go forward and fake them.

    That they had the technology and much more technology that was beyond what was required to land on the moon.

    But, that landing on the moon was forbidden. So they had to fake it.

    That is one of the proposed scenarios that covers all sides of this.

    When it comes to alternative information gained firsthand, I'd wager that Bill has more of that in his stable of info than I do. It's a simple matter of meeting these people face to face, which he has.

    For example if I met Bill face to face, I could give him some very interesting stories. Those stories don't get written about on forums, or in private messages, or on phones, Skype calls or anywhere else. Just ...face to face. To and with individuals. Specific individuals. No crowds or small group talk or with a few individuals I don't know, with a few drinks in me...or anything. This is not a game. (I'm not talking out some info that is relevant to this thread, either, just wild stories that have data points, which is the kind of stuff you can get now and then when you meet people face to face.)

    In conclusion, eg, regarding the idea of face to face stuff...Bill Deagle may seem wacky to some, but I do know that you can run into some pretty crazy stuff at times.
    Last edited by Carmody; 12th June 2016 at 04:27.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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