Rising Ocean Levels - Explained

[wnlight]

I have a theory that I wish to post to get members’ reactions. This theory has been glommed together from various readings. This is my answer to the question of what is causing the sea levels to rise. They are rising, but is it caused by human activity? You may have already thought this out and have reached a conclusion. I would like to read your response whether or not it is in agreement with my conclusion.

I claim that the water level is rising mostly due to thermal expansion. An extremely small rise in water temperature will cause the amount of expansion that we see today. Large bodies of water do not warm from heat applied to the surface. Except, of course, in the very top layer of the water. In other words, water warms from bottom up and not from top down. Increased heat from the Earth’s core is slowly warming the lowest layers in the ocean. Now, we do not have thermometers in the core to directly measure temperatures there, but there is much indirect evidence of an increase.

You might say that the water temperature at the bottom of the oceans is extremely cold. I agree. However, a slight increase would still leave the water to be extremely cold and yet cause the expansion. I have not attempted to apply metrics to my theory, so my theory is closer to a reasonable conjecture.

You might question if the core is really warming, and I would say to look at the greatly increased activity of world-wide vulcanism and tectonic movement. You might say that all this has happened many times in our pre-history, and I would answer, "Most likely, yes."

[Fellow Aspirant]

Your thinking w.r.t. the cause of rising ocean levels is spot on (are you a scientist?) : the main cause of rising sea levels is global warming. Where you veer from scientific orthodoxy, however, is in what you suggest is the source of the heat. Global warming/ocean warming is the result of more heat energy entering the atmosphere. Here's a fairly straightforward explanation from the Centers for Ocean Science Educational excellence (link below)

"Warming Oceans Mean Sea Levels Will Rise

It is estimated that most of the increase in sea level will be from as the result of global warming, which will cause thermal expansion of the oceans. Thermal expansion is caused when seawater expands because of the higher temperature of the water. Since the oceans absorb heat from the atmosphere, when the atmosphere becomes warmer so will the oceans. Warm seawater has a greater volume than cold seawater. As the temperature of the ocean increases so will the total ocean volume. The increased volume will cause the level of the water in the oceans to rise.

Two factors will contribute to this accelerated rise in sea level. First, although
the oceans have an enormous heat storage capacity, if global atmospheric temperatures rise, the oceans will absorb heat and expand. A greater volume of ocean water due to thermal expansion will lead to a rise in sea level. Second, rising temperatures willcause the ice and snowfields to melt, thereby
increasing the amount of water in the oceans. It should be noted that only the melting of land-based ice and snow increases sea level. The melting of floating ice will not affect sea level. This can be demonstrated to your students by partially filling a glass container with ice and water and marking the water level on the glass. When the ice cubes melt, note that the water level remains the same."

Source:
Centers for Ocean Science Educational Excellence
http://cosee.umaine.edu/cfuser/resou..._sea_level.pdf

Brian

[Hervé]

Have a look at this post: NASA study finds volcanic magma plume under Antarctica may explain ice sheet instability

... or this one: Scientists discover 91 volcanoes below Antarctic ice sheet

... not to forget this one (<---) that should get a few heads to be scratched...

Then, of course, there is this one: Today’s sea-level rise is BELOW normal

... not to dismiss thermal expansion... but... then, it would indicate a general cooling compared to previous eons since the few millimetres of global sea rise is now below the "normal" average trend if not falling (<---).

[wnlight]

It is known that the Earth’s magnetosphere is weakening. This will allow more cosmic particles to enter the Earth’s core, thus heating the core. This heat must go somewhere. It has been recently discovered that there has been an increase of heat escaping the core through the mantle via lava plumes. This has been the major source of Ocean temperature rising, ocean water thermal expansion, and ultimate sea level rising. There have been discoveries of magnetosphere cycles and spikes over the long run which must have caused the changes which we now observe to have actually happened many times before our pre-history.

We may now be witnessing an approach to Earth magnetic field shift which most likely would be accompanied by even weaker field strength, even greater core heating, and higher ocean water temperatures. Time will tell.

Also, I suspect that it is wise to differentiate the two sources of ocean water heating (1) the surface heating from atmospheric warming above and (2) the heating of ocean water from the core of the Earth below.

Heating from the above would make little or no difference in the over-all depth ocean temperatures except to warm the ocean surface. However, surface warming would certainly affect climate and weather.

Heating from below will ever so slightly warm the entire ocean and cause the thermal expansion which will perhaps cause the elimination of some small island nations.

I find it difficult to see how the core heating might possibly be caused be human activity. Yet is human activity causing atmospheric warming? Time will tell.

The entire scene of Earth heating and cooling is actually very complex. Even as thermal expansion occurs, there is also a different process of accumulation of ice in Antartica that may be reducing ocean levels or slowing down the effects of expansion. Also, different parts of our planet heat and cool differently.

The Earth seems to be very good at compensating for what ever changes that it experiences. Maybe it IS alive! Hopefully, it will never attempt to compensate for what we humans do to it.

[Baby Steps]

average ocean depth 3.7 km. The top bit may be being heated by the atmosphere, but the bulk, by far, below the thermocline, would expand due to geological processes. Measurement of these processes is not well researched, but vents etc at deep levels may be a big factor.Could not find any strong quantification of deep ocean temperature changes. Could not find anything definitive regarding transfers of heat from shallows to depths.

Anecdotally, it is definitely rising. The thames flood barrier is a good indicator.

[wnlight]

If the sea levels are not currently rising - great! I am not sure how well one can tell. I could call my old neighbor along one of the canals in Satellite Beach, Florida to see if the water level has changed in the thirty years since we lived there. :=) His answer would only be one data point out of the thousands necessary to draw some conclusion. Or I could check with an old employer, NASA, to see what they say. Should anyone believe that? NASA = Never A Straight Answer.

The idea of water level changes in the Earth's oceans reminds me of pouring water into my dog's bowl while he is drinking from it. How do you know which process provides the controlling factor?

My conjecture of magnetosphere weakening causing core heating by cosmic rays causing thermal expansion causing ocean level rising would require significant study in more than one scientific discipline in areas that have been mostly ignored over the years.

[Satori]

Could the answer reside not in "either/or", but rather both warming of the water and melting ice caps and calfing, to some degree.

ADD. I see also that there is a thread on sinking land as a cause of what appears to be rising waters. So, it could be all three, and not just one or two.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Satori (here)
Could the answer reside not in "either/or", but rather both warming of the water and melting ice caps and calfing, to some degree.

ADD. I see also that there is a thread on sinking land as a cause of what appears to be rising waters. So, it could be all three, and not just one or two.

We also might add in the huge water reservoir within the earth's crust that exceeds all our surface water, may be linked to and may (if history indicates) be prone to coming to the surface through unknown (but imagined) mechanics occasionally, and/or the influence of wnlight's and Herve's considerations ... it suddenly becomes quite more complex ...

[Hervé]

Posted by wnlight (here)
[...]
... I could check with an old employer, NASA, to see what they say. Should anyone believe that? NASA = Never A Straight Answer.
[...]

NASA's answer:

Posted by Hervé (here)
Sea levels are falling

NASA satellite sea level observations for the past 24 years show that – on average – sea levels have been rising 3.4 millimeters per year. That’s 0.134 inches, about the thickness of a dime and a nickel stacked together, per year.

See larger interactive graph: https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

...that’s the average. But when you focus in on 2016 and 2017, you get a different picture.

Sea levels fell in 2016, and with all of this winter’s record-breaking snowfall, I wouldn’t be surprised if they decline again this year.

[sigma6]

Is the premise that the oceans are rising even accurate?... more on NASA study...

NASA confirms: Sea levels have been FALLING across the planet for two years … media SILENT

[Ewan]

Good to know we don't need to concern ourselves further about rising oceans then.

However, as it seems to be a boon to concerns of man-made climate change and raking in big bucks one has to wonder if there's much truth to it at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...ever-told.html

[Hervé]

Current data from: https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

with the explanation blurb from NASA:

Sea Level

LATEST MEASUREMENT: July 2017 84.8 mm

Sea level rise is caused primarily by two factors related to global warming: the added water from melting ice sheets and glaciers and the expansion of sea water as it warms. The first graph tracks the change in sea level since 1993 as observed by satellites.

Those "scientists" writing that piece aren't phased out that the former trend has been going on since the 1870s, at a steady pace, in spite of "global warming" fluctuations nor that the current down trend doesn't bode well for positive thermal expansion and global ice melts... never mind that it doesn't fit very well with increased volcanic activities nor the weakening of the earth's magnetosphere.

[wnlight]

Thanks Hervé and Sigma6 for the latest info on ocean water levels. Thanks for the links. I still do not believe anything that NASA publishes, but what you have found might help silence the alarmist propaganda that I also never believed. It is clear to me that the Earth's core has been heating, so if the ocean water levels have been dropping, then there are other processes at work. No surprise there. The polar bear population has been increasing. Since I live in the Andes mountains, the rising water alarms did not bother me much. I started this thread simply to explain that the cause of rising water around the world did not have much to do with human activity. I also agree that an increase of CO2 in our air would be great for plant life, but again there is little relation between CO2 levels and human activity.

The concept of rising and falling land relative to sea level is another interesting story. I have already had much to say about that in a previous thread and on my web site, www.light.ec. I will simply add that it looks like the militarization of Nicola Tesla's findings might very well negatively influence the ongoing natural changes in sea levels for many locations around the world.

The ice will come whether we want it or not. Once it is here, we will hate it. Hopefully, it will only last a few decades.

[Foxie Loxie]

What if the entire planet itself is expanding? Hope that's not too dumb a question; not having a scientific mind!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
Since the oceans absorb heat from the atmosphere, when the atmosphere becomes warmer so will the oceans.

A disclaimer. I met wnlight (Warren, who lives locally) for lunch the other day, and we were talking about this. I encouraged him to start a thread, hoping that Hervé (who is a PhD level geophysicist) would reply.

We both agreed that atmospheric warming would hardly affect the oceans: it'd be like trying to heat a pan of water with a hair dryer. It's MUCH more efficient if the heat comes directly from the bottom of the pan.

[wnlight]

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
What if the entire planet itself is expanding? Hope that's not too dumb a question; not having a scientific mind!

Never a too dumb question. I read into your question that you mean expansion without a change of total mass - only becoming a lessor density. Actually, some say the Earth is expanding, but how to measure this? The expansion is likely too small to precisely measure. When I was doing satellite orbital calculations back in the 1980s, we never made compensation for an expanding Earth. Of course, small meteorites are hitting our planet all the time, and even the burnt meteors contribute some mass.

BTW, NASA tells us no. According to them, our planet is not expanding.
But who should ever believe NASA = Never A Straight Answer?

[Fellow Aspirant]

Well, the whole global warming thing is incredibly complex, as we know. That the earth is warming is beyond question. What is causing it to heat up is quite a can of worms, apparently. As we all like to look at charts and pictures, here's my contribution, showing the amount and rate at which the planet's oceans are taking on thermal energy ...



As we get deeper into our discussion, we will need to explore the mechanics of how the heating of just a few milimeters of the the top layer of the ocean is able to have a gigantic effect on the lower layers, making them retain heat energy.

Later for that. Let's see, first, if there's any agreement regarding the chart info displayed in this chart.

Cheers,

Brian

[bluestflame]

what if all the living planets are expanding , each at different stages of growth hence the different sizes , what if at the core is dimension links where energy is fed in from different universes/dimensions , the heat produced in the process of what "materialises" ie becomes matter in this reality , why is the earths core still hot enough to melt rock after millions of years with only the suns rays to provide heat ( supposedly)

just a few thoughs i've had for a fair while now


oh yeah and where does the sun get its heat from is the sun expanding ?

unbind your thought process you might be amazed what you know

[nenosema]

Since a large nuclear power plant that utilizes a once-through cooling system may withdraw 800 million to 1 billion gallons of water a day, these plants are usually built next to rivers, lakes, or oceans.

Once-Through cooling As the name implies, once-through cooling uses water a single time to cool and condense steam produced for electricity generation. Water produced from the condensed steam is reused in the generation process, but the water used for cooling is discharged back into the lake, river or ocean, with a temperature increase of up to 30 degrees.vi
The temperature increase in the bodies of water can have serious adverse effects on aquatic life. Warm water holds less oxygen than cold water, thus discharge from once-through cooling systems can create a “temperature squeeze” that elevates the metabolic rate for fish.vii Additionally, suction pipes that are used to intake water can draw plankton, eggs and larvae into the plant’s machinery, while larger organisms can be trapped against the protective screens of the pipes. Blocked intake screens have led to temporary shut downs and NRC fines at a number of plants.
Recirculating cooling While once-through cooling systems withdraw 25,000 to 60,000 gallons of water for each megawatt-hour of electricity produced, recirculating cooling systems, also known as closed-cycle cooling systems, withdraw only 800 to 2,600 gallons per megawatt-hour and are used when nearby water sources lack sufficient volume to allow once-through cooling. After water is withdrawn from a source to cool steam, it is then cooled and pumped back into the condenser for reuse. Though plants with closed cycle cooling systems withdraw far less water than once-through cooling systems, they consume (through evaporation) about 600-800 gallons per megawatt-hour, roughly half the amount they withdraw."
-Union of Concerned Scientists


http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/...-water-use.pdf
(if your're on mobile the pdf may download by clicking the link)

[Foxie Loxie]

I wonder how The Electric Universe plays into all this? Thank you, nenosema, for enlightening us as to the cooling of the nuclear plants!