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6th June 2019 14:16
Link to Post #261
Re: Racism
Joe,
It is truly awful that your ancestor was conscripted into the British Navy. I wonder what rank he finally ended his career at. You know what the rest of your article does? Talks about Class warfare and how the Capital Class keeps the working class down. I didnt know you were a Marxist?
Furthermore, for you to imply that Avalon is left in any way is laughable. This place is firmly reactionary. In fact, it is so reactionary at times that I am waiting for Voice from the Mountain to start demanding a Bourbon restoration.
EDIT
I wanted to add: Since your ancestor was a victim of Extraordinary rendetion into the British navy, I wonder what your position on Extraordinary rendition to Guantanamo bay is? And what of that prison itself?
Last edited by Praxis; 6th June 2019 at 14:26.
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6th June 2019 15:41
Link to Post #262
Avalon Member
Re: Racism
This is an epic thread; I've enjoyed contemplating all the various perspectives and comments. So much rich conversation has ensued it's hard to add anything useful to the conversation, but perhaps the best attempt is to define racism as precisely as possible and then clarify how commonly employed definitions are problematic.
As far as I understand it, and simply put, racism describes the phenomena of structural marginalization in society based on race.. We can debate how and why this marginalization exists, its historical roots, where it's heading, and what we can do to eradicate the problem--and we will all have differing ideas and opinions for sure based on our personal experiences--but there is really no debating the underlying problem. Racism is a social problem; it is a humanitarian problem; it is a spiritual problem. The evidence here should surprise no one with even a modicum of awareness.
Unfortunately--and here is the elephant in the room: cultural institutions have weaponized and co-opted the phenomena to advance political agendas to foment tribal tensions and divisions, as DNA and others have eloquently pointed out. Racism has thus been used to ascribe victimizing attributes to groups at large and has summarily rendered other groups at large to victims. This dialect is both a conscious and subconscious inculcation in the collective psyche that serves to de-individualize persons accordingly per their group affiliation. So humanitarians tackling the problem in good faith will often find pushback against the elephant in the room, or from those who simply resist being de-individualized, regardless of the validity or fallacy of the underlying reality. Moreover, the pushback is often mischaracterized as a "racist protest" (and even more confusing and complexing, as sometimes it is a racist protest--who can claim racism on the individual level doesn't exist?); but more to the point the individual pushback is often against something deeper at play. We should sort this out carefully in order to understand what's truly going on here.
In other words, I would submit racism has become an emotionally charged enigma in our Western society and is rarely understood for what it is. The pushback by President Trump (and his supporters) against political correctness, for example, has nothing to do with an underlying proclivity for racism or sexism as much as it characterizes a protest against weaponizing social injustice prevalent in society to advance agendas entirely unrelated to social injustice. Yet is it commonly accepted by popular culture that Trump and his supporters are racist and sexist (not to mention ignorant and deplorable). One hears this blanket charge against millions of people 24/7. In this milieu the vast majority of thinking people who rarely experience racial marginalization (let's just say white men of privilege and get it over with) often tend to avoid the topic altogether, or, perhaps more commonly, succumb to a highly charged mob to signal their virtue and empathy on a problem we already all agree exists. The vast majority of thinking people who do experience racial marginalization, perhaps as much as on a daily basis (people of color and women, among others, for example) often fall into the trap of using the weapon to fight the battle. In my view, both positions are counterproductive to the cause of ameliorating the problem.
All said, and contrary to some earlier definitions laid out in this thread, racism isn't the belief that one's race is superior to another. I'm not suggesting these sentiments do not exist among people; they do. But when I talk about racism I prefer to focus on what is structural in our culture and what causes the marginalization of individuals based on race, not on the delusions of racial superiority prevalent at the very extremes of the population. I'm suggesting this later characteristic is blatant racism in the extreme but not a structural problem in society ; at the risk of advancing a provocative generalization, I submit for consideration that the structural racism that currently exists in society has nothing or little to due to White Supremacy or because folks of a certain race belief en masse (either consciously or subconsciously) that their race is superior. Something else is going on, and we should discuss what it is. But we should discuss the root problem, not a fallacy.
Similarly, I also see discussions that cite White Nationalism as problematic. Again, I am not saying there are not White Nationalists out there. There are. But this is a distraction and hardly a structural problem in society. Those who make you believe otherwise, or even more generally that racial hatred is rampant in our culture, e.g. CNN, MSM, and even some in academia who weave together slanted studies that suggest all three are on the rise, have a political agenda and are magicians of sort performing slight-of-hand tricks. They are provocateurs with agenda. Their tactics work very well to silence folks who do not directly experience racial marginalization (to challenge the claim would serve to provide evidence supporting it) and on the flip side, work even better to solicit for a mass condemnation of the claim and thus validating it (this is the path of least resistance to take, and who wouldn't, if true?). Falling in line signals virtue to their marginalized brothers and sisters and bestows validity to its reality. But this is a false a paradigm that doesn’t address the root issues. Either case plays right into the hands of the provocateurs.
Moreover, it is equally easy for those who do experience racism (and perhaps also the path of least resistance) to subscribe to the notion of White Nationalism or White Supremacy or generally believe a culture of racial hatred exists based on their direct and very real experiences of structural marginalization. It serves as a tidy narrative describing cause and effect. However, we could also incessantly cite incidents involving White Nationalists and racial hatred en masse as much as we could gather a convention of albinos protesting the sunlight. Just because one can gather up a group of picketing albinos in front of a CNN camera doesn't mean albino activists are overrunning our culture. In other words, I would submit for consideration, and this is just my humble view on the matter, that White Nationalism, White Supremacy, and Racial Hatred are not structural problems in society.
But why is this important and what is the point? The more important point, in my view, is that it would appear we are all being misled to advance the fomentation of identity politics and to align ourselves accordingly, which is insidious and dangerous, and frankly, is actually creating and deepening the racial divide. Others have described this dynamic in detail, and I would echo their observations. To take it further, I would also submit this approach does not address the genuine root of structural racism, i.e., the how/what/and why of it, nor does it serve to lift its yolk on our society.
This is an especially difficult discussion to have, because it is very hard to talk about racism without talking about the politics of group identity. And it’s equally hard to talk about the politics of group identity without employing an oppressed vs. oppressor narrative. I strongly believe the dynamic of structural racism is a byproduct of cultural propensity that has been inflicted upon all of us, regardless of one’s group identity. We are all subjects of the yolk of culture the moment we enter the world, as individuals, and to its various structural problems that cause tribal divisions, inequality, and ethnic marginalization. Perhaps if we begin to view the dynamic as such rather than as a dialectical struggle between racial groups can we have more productive and fruitful discussions about specific ways to raise awareness to rectify social injustice and racial marginalization.
This, of course, is just my subjective take, admittedly founded on a lifetime of personal experiences with peoples of all creeds and colors and based on my understanding of human condition. Carry on….
With Kind Regards,
T Smith
Last edited by T Smith; 6th June 2019 at 15:51.
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The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to T Smith For This Post:
Ally S. (6th June 2019), Joe (6th June 2019), Mark (6th June 2019), Valerie Villars (6th June 2019), william r sanford72 (6th June 2019)
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6th June 2019 16:33
Link to Post #263