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Thread: Racism

  1. Link to Post #481
    Russian Federation Avalon Member Sasha Alisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Hi Mashika

    Reading that older post of mine was interesting. Every so often I'll get some beer and read a bunch of my old posts and make a night out of it. I highly recommend everyone do this. It's very revealing. Sometimes I'll think, wow, that was quite good!, and other times I can barely recognize the person that wrote the thing. It's a great indicator of where you once were, where you are now, and where youre going.

    What annoyed me most about my girlfriend at that time was not that she labelled that comment racist, but that she was kind of disingenuous and hypocritical in general. She was a Seattle hipster type, a recreational virtue signaler who would have marched in the streets for Mexicans and blacks just to be seen doing it but would have never dated any of them, for example. And here she was, passing judgement on what I felt was a pretty harmless statement. She wasn't on very firm ground, morally, imo, so I resented her judgement..even if it might have had some truth to it.

    But I take your point and fully understand it! Having viewed it again with fresh eyes, I can indeed see what you mean there and how the line could have been viewed as offensive.

    Ugh, I'm sorry you have to endure all those ignorant judgements and the rest of that racial nonsense. I'm curious: do you find racism to be stronger in Mexico than the US? Or vice versa?
    I think Mexico is way more racist in several ways, mostly against their own people, everyone wants to say "proud of being Mexican" but also treats native Mexicans like garbage or simply ignore them and push them away if possible

    Not to say people are hateful, i love the culture and it's in several ways very similar to Russian culture, but it has that aspect of it that you can see two friends having a great time and then they get angry for whatever reason and then insults like "indio mugroso" (dirty indian) or similar come up, which is like a very derogative term to mean "Native Mexican" or "Mexican indigenous", even though pretty much everyone is partial indigenous in Mexico. So even the nicest people somehow have the racism and hate towards indigenous people

    For someone like me, i don't get that much hate or attitude, but if i'm confused with an American citizen then i may get lots of it as well, for example this one time we went into a bar and had a small issue with some other girls there, and the owner though we were American and started calling us about it, saying we were there thinking we were special and all kinds of hateful stuff just for being Americans (they have lots of insults specifically made for Americans, most of them very racist) then when we explained we were Russians his attitude changed entirely, he apologized and tried to make us stay and make amends. It just didn't work out after that, i mean he already showed his true colors, how can he come back from that and continue as if nothing happened

    That kind of stuff happens very easily, but as usual only some people are like that, i just think it's brought up way more easy than in the US, and that they treat each other nicely most of the time but suddenly insult each other with "indio" as if being indigenous was something very bad is very weird, and no Mexican will take being called "indio" lightly, it's a big offense somehow, even if they are proud of being Mexicans

    Then, there are some weird people who live in Mexico but hate being Mexicans LOL, that's just crazy, they wish they would have been born somewhere else. Back in 2018 at the world cup, i was with some friends from Mexico and they also invited some other people along, there were a few of them who when asked where they came from they said "America" but did not want people to know they were Mexicans and attempted to hide their accent! I don't even know what to say about that

    Quote Thanks for sharing your story. I'll share a short one too:

    My grandfather on my mom's side played a cowboy called "Canyon Jack" on a local tv show when he was a younger man. On his way home one day after work, during one particularly brutal snow storm, he got lost and pulled over into this nondescript little pub to make a phone call. So he walks into this place with his full Canyon Jack outfit on - cowboy hat, boots, spurs, frilly jacket, etc - shakes all the snow off of himself and approaches the bar for a drink. Suddenly the place goes quiet, in the same unsettling way a very noisy jungle goes quiet in the middle of the night..when even the insects shut up for a while. Anyway, he looks up, and the place is packed with native American indians..all staring at him in the same uncomfortable way. So without a word he put his hat back on, turned around, and walked right back out into the storm having never made his phonecall
    LMAO! Totally pictured the scene in my mind

    Quote Intellectually I think the idea of any kind of reparations is a terrible idea. I can give you a million good reasons why. But emotionally I have a hard time resisting it, in some instances. The cigarette tax thing is one such instance.
    I find this a difficult thing, but seems like it's true that current generations are not to blame for what happened in the past, none of the people involved are even alive anymore?

    Hard to say but i think feeling guilt about the past is not correct, maybe there should be other ways to handle this, like integration between different races instead of just giving stuff away and then moving forward without seeing each other away?

    I don't think i can see or feel the problem from the right point of view so maybe i'm saying something very dumb but i think giving free stuff to the people or group who were harmed is not really doing "reparations" and more like 'here's some cash and let's forget it happened' while real reparations would be to make things go back to how they used to be, or partially merge both cultures and groups so they are not segregated? Like you said you see no American indians anywhere, so what good is to give them free stuff or money if they still remain hidden away? The damage remains constant over the ages, no matter how much money or other stuff they are given so that kind of reparation is actually just some money so they go away and don't be a bother or problem for some time, not a real attempt to fix things up?
    Last edited by Sasha Alisa; 16th March 2020 at 02:01.
    If life situation unclear, keep pressing your hand grip :P

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  3. Link to Post #482
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    In my mid 20's I found myself selling sporting apparel at fairs and trade shows and stuff like that. At one event in L.A. I met this lovely Mexican woman and we began what was to be sort of a romantic connection.

    Her Dad was a full Mexican, but her mother was white. And she caught all kinds of sh!t for it growing up in Mexico. In her early adulthood she found out she was adopted, and wasn't white at all..which was kind of a cruel and darkly humorous irony.

    Anyway, I often spent time with her and her very large group of friends, all Mexicans. Initially I could sense they distrusted me, so I made a point of buying everyone beer on the first couple nights we all hung out. This actually made a couple of them trust me even less, because they thought I had some agenda I s'pose. Eventually I became friendly with most of them, except for a couple. Most would speak English when I was around out of courtesy, but a few wouldn't. Then they'd kind of snicker and apologize disingenuously before speaking Spanish yet again..deviously encouraging the others to do same. I knew enough Spanish to understand what they were up to. I kind of expected it, so it didn't trouble me too much.

    At these events I was often the minority, even when I wasn't hanging around with the Mexican group. Being in California was a real eye opener. It's sort of like Mexico 2.0. As a white guy, unless I was inland, I wasn't even the second most represented group around - that would be the Asians.

    Despite our adversarial historical relationship, it felt like the whites and the blacks had a kind of unspoken solidarity..all based on the fact that we were very outnumbered LOL. Maybe I imagined it, but that's the way it felt to me. We'd nod at each other as we passed by, and the implication was, 'I got ya bro, no worries

    I have olive skin and tan very easily, and was often mistaken for a Mexican myself. People approached me speaking Spanish all the time. It was always a little awkward explaining that I didn't really speak the language. The Mexicans would squint and inspect me closely, and then sort of nod and walk off after - I imagine - seeing my green eyes..which always gave me away as being a gringo.

    I almost got killed when a friend of mine unknowingly drove into the territory of a Mexican gang. We were chased, and finally caught at a red light (which, for the life of me, I still don't know why my friend didn't blow thru). The guy rolled his window down and gestured for me to do the same. So i did, all along thinking I was a goner, but the gangster didn't shoot. Instead he explained to me that he had given me a gang sign a few blocks back, and wanted to know why I hadn't responded. I had seen his car but didn't recall seeing any sign. I explained to him that I was from NY and was just driving thru, and he kindly explained to me what I should do next time a gang sign was flashed my way; he gave me a gesture signifying neutrality..but I can't recall what it was. Then he drove away, and said 'welcome to Californiaaaa' as his voice trailed off into the distance. Close call.

    In Santa Barbara I was jumped by a group of young Mexican guys..late teens, early 20's maybe (this happened twice actually). It was racially motivated. I was with a black friend at the time, and we fought them off and walked away mostly unscathed. They shouted a bunch of racial sh!t at both of us as we all separated. No big deal really, but it was unsettling, and the threat of it happening again was always in the back of my mind. I began looking over my shoulder quite a bit.

    Later on, I kind of fell for another Mexican woman. We had a nice thing going but she was feeling the pressure from her friends who clearly didn't approve of her dating a white dude. That ended, sadly.

    When I moved inland, things were much different. The majority of people were white, but they were fiercely white LOL. There was something vaguely (and not so vaguely) Aryan Nation about these dudes. They all dressed the same, as if they had been rolled off a conveyor belt - black volcom hat and black volcom shirt, dickies shorts, three quarter length socks on feet securely tucked into a pair of vans...and a whole lot of tattoos. And they almost all seemed blond haired, strangely enough. They looked like the Hitler youth! To be fair, I met a lot of good people inland..but there was a strong undertone of racism the whole time. It didn't even need to be outwardly spoken..it was palpable.

    Once I was taking a light jog in an area called Canyon Lake, where I lived at the time. I was wearing a Pittsburgh Steelers jersey, and this is right around the time they had switched coaches from Bill Cowher, a white guy, to Mike Tomlin, a black guy. Some guy shouted something to me as a jogged by. I couldn't hear him so I took out my earbuds and said "Sorry, missed that." And the guy said, "It's a shame ya know?" "A shame about what?," I asked. "That new n!gger coach they have now.." He said it so casually, as if we were talking about the weather. It shocked me speechless.

    There's so much to say about my 3 years in California, but I'd be writing about it all day if I tried to encapsulate the entire thing. It was quite surreal, not only because I was often the minority wherever I went, but because I didn't even relate too well to the people of my own race there. I was often more comfortable around the Mexican and Asian and Filipino and black folks I met than I was the inland whites. It was a great learning experience overall, wouldn't have traded it for anything.
    Last edited by Mike; 16th March 2020 at 03:56.

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  5. Link to Post #483
    United States Moderator/Guide on Sabbatical
     
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    Default Re: Racism

    Fantastic debate!
    Just as every cop is a criminal
    And all the sinners saints

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  7. Link to Post #484
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism



    I would be so very interested to read Mark/Rahkyt's thoughts and feelings about the murder of George Floyd.

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    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    I'd be just as interested to see his view's on the "push back" and the obvious co-op that seems to be occurring.

    I don't know if that situation was racially motivated or not, it certainly was horrible.... the current riots seem to be "race divided" in very small areas from what I've observed (though there are quite a few that seem to re-emphasis the racial divide).


    ALSO, that was NOT MURDER; the use of "MURDER" is meant to cause an emotional response and is a part of why MSM is dead (It definitely was manslaughter at least).

    do NOT allow linguistic drift, it is along the lines of the tower of babel, but worse.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
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    Default Re: Racism

    I agree Target. It took over 8 minutes in broad daylight while people recorded it on video. So it is closer to a modern day lynching when you think about it.

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    Default Re: Racism

    My feeling is it was in part racially motivated but also a reflection of the mentality of a police force which is trained to see people as targets. Would George Floyd be alive if he were a white man? Would the police have been as aggressive as they were? I don't know but it is a possibility for sure.

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  15. Link to Post #488
    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Billy Vasiliadis (here)
    My feeling is it was ... a reflection of the mentality of a police force which is trained to see people as targets.
    I would SLIGHTLY agree with this statement, but more so think/assume (not that it's an excuse) that they mostly interact with people that are doing things deemed unacceptable by society or the legal system (usually both) which causes a temperament and bias that is not cohesive to "protect and serve" when you think of the original intention of that group of words.




    Quote Posted by Billy Vasiliadis (here)
    Would George Floyd be alive if he were a white man? Would the police have been as aggressive as they were? I don't know but it is a possibility for sure.
    Hate to say it, but your first question.... based on pattern analysis would be "much more likely" however, the supportive evidence for being overly cautious with certain members of society almost makes up for his initial reaction (NOT the outcome or conduct).

    Your second question (in light of the directly above response) would be "No, but" they probably would have allowed more for a demographic that (per-capita, again it's not an excuse, but it's an undeniable reality currently) does not exhibit violent response when interacted with.


    so... in short, it's too complex for a quick label (his motivation)....... But the outcome deserves a response, the magnitude of which I cannot comment on.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
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  17. Link to Post #489
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    Default Re: Racism

    Hmm, no & no. If you squeeze or press someone’s neck at that particular point and render them breathless, the chance they would “come back” decreases with every minute.
    You and the cop were taught this and tested it number of times in medical and martial arts training. He had 8 minutes to think about it. That’s a lots of time to decide whether you intend to kill the man or not.
    Time goes very slowly in those critical moments, it expands exponentially. Quite like in meditation.
    So it can’t be qualified as “accidental killing”.

    Why does it happen ? You should know. Sadistic tendencies and killer switch, there is whole depersonalisation moment arising in some individuals.
    No system can successfully deal with those people. Some of them seek deployments as prison guards, some go to military, unfortunately some exist within police force but there are sadistic nurses and doctors as well.

    It starts in childhood but is often enhanced by receiving hurtful emotional and physical experiences from others and learning to “confirm” sadistic behaviour as necessary means to survival.

    In simple terms you could also say the man flipped out of control.

    They are not “intelligent” while doing this, it’s a predator prey instinct taking over.

    So no, it could have been anyone else in that place, child, woman, colours don’t play major difference.


    There will be some report from the forensic psychiatrist on it for sure and how that man defends himself but don’t expect “truth”.

    There is no “deeper intellectual truth” behind this. Deeper instinct yes, collective instinct of superiority and survival of yourself as the predator alone yes.

    Not dissimilar to the orca in Orlando Marine Life killing her “cherished” trainer.


    🐳

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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    I would SLIGHTLY agree with this statement, but more so think/assume (not that it's an excuse) that they mostly interact with people that are doing things deemed unacceptable by society or the legal system (usually both) which causes a temperament and bias that is not cohesive to "protect and serve" when you think of the original intention of that group of words.
    This is also what I was trying to include when I mentioned training. I should have used a better word.

    The very job itself colours a persons mind in such a way, that you can see how it breeds unfortunate views of others. If day in day out you are being confronted with violence and crime, what is that going to do to your attitudes and beliefs?

    I imagine it takes a person truly committed to justice to not slip. And for those who don't care much for justice, well, you see the kinds of actions that result (this one now being one example, how much more do we not even hear about).

    Quote Your second question (in light of the directly above response) would be "No, but" they probably would have allowed more for a demographic that (per-capita, again it's not an excuse, but it's an undeniable reality currently) does not exhibit violent response when interacted with.
    Isn't this just a vicious circle though? Violence begets violence right? I understand that this is a complex issue but I do believe that most people are decent (maybe not quite good, but decent), and if they have a decent quality of life and avenues of fulfilling their potentials, they wouldn't engage in violence or crime.

    The solution seems to be greater freedom, not more policing (not that you are saying this).

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  21. Link to Post #491
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)


    I would be so very interested to read Mark/Rahkyt's thoughts and feelings about the murder of George Floyd.
    Mark/Rahkyt, I realize that you did respond a bit on another thread to this issue, but I too would like to hear more of your thoughts.

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  23. Link to Post #492
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    So Jess I'm glad you pushed me on this one because it turns out I had a little bit to learn here. That's great on the one hand and aggravating on the other; great cuz I've learned some new stuff and aggravating because i can often be an egotistic c#nt who likes to believe I already know everything, and it's alarming and disconcerting to that side of me when I realize I don't...so damn you (and thank you)

    One of the frequent grievances from black activists is that whites "had a 400 year head start" in America. I've heard this for a while now and it's always confused me. I was aware that the US, as a country, was roughly 250 years old, and I was also aware that some Europeans had arrived earlier, obviously ('1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue'..how could I forget that one?); and I was aware of what my history books had told me about the time between 1492 and the early 1600's, when the first English colony was established; oh, and I'd also seen "Last of the Mohicans". So my knowledge of the African presence in the US is mostly from slavery onwards. I was dimly aware that some Africans had been here prior, but up until now didn't know much about it (and I still don't, to be honest). Maybe Mark will arrive and school me a little.

    Some other fun facts:

    - the ancestors of our living Native Americans arrived from Asia roughly 15,000 years ago, possibly much earlier (from Asia via Beringia)

    - their name for the country was "turtle island"

    - roughly 500 years before Columbus arrived, America was discovered by some bold ass Vikings led by a dude named Leif Eriksson

    - before 1492, Mexico, Central America, and much of the southwest US was known as Meso America, or Middle America

    ...but back to the topic. Some googling revealed this quote: the first 19 or so Africans to reach the British colonies arrived in Point Comfort, Virginia, near Jamestown, in 1619

    ...though this is almost universally believed to be untrue. Apparently the first Africans actually arrived 600 years ago...some thought to be free and and some thought to be slaves. It appears they arrived after the Spanish and the French but much sooner than the English.

    My feeling is that life was damn near hell for anyone who arrived in America in the 1400's. Not really knowing the status of the Africans here during that time, I can't really say if they had it any worse than the French or the Spanish or the English. So I don't know if the "head start" began back then or 200 years later.

    Yes, and per your point - the Natives have the real claim to this land. They've had it worse than all of us put together..and that's really an entirely different topic. It's interesting that they are almost never mentioned when the topic of racism is brought up.. and the reason for that is simple: there's like 4 of them left.

    Racism is a numbers game: the largest groups get the most heat while the most oppressed groups get very little attention for being oppressed, because they're small and incapable of making much noise...and unless you're making some noise, no one seems to care. Math. So in that sense the accusations can be a little distorted..and the grievances from anyone not talking about the Natives, disingenuous. I don't think whites, currently, possess a racism that blacks or asians or indians don't also possess. It's no worse, generally. There's just more of us(in the U.S). So an advantage exists in that sense. It's as deliberate as it is arbitrary.

    Yes, black settlers/slaves were here long before the British colonies, but come 1776 anyway.. not nearly as many as whites. European whites held the cards and started a country for themselves. They did it for all sorts of advantages, some of which still exist today. The point I was sort of making before was: is that so unfair?

    I get the feeling I'm misunderstanding your question though.
    Last edited by Mike; 4th June 2020 at 06:55.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Egotistical ****?? You called??😀. LOL. You're not the only one. I'm sure I've shared this story before... about being on a forum and reading some random post and thinking how much I agreed with the poster but what an arrogant S.O.B he came off as. So I checked to see who wrote it and it was me, a month before! It still cracks me up. What a pain in the ass!

    Anyway... Will answer as soon as my batteries recharge. Just climbing into my pod now. Talk soon!😉

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    Default Re: Racism

    Discovery Science

    Human Zoos: America's Forgotten History Of Scientific Racism

    Published 17th February 2019

    I for one will join in with anyone, I don't care what color you are as long as you want to change this miserable condition that exists on this Earth - Malcolm X / Tsar Of The Star

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    Default Re: Racism

    To our common soul and self defence and to improve understanding of some of our parent generations I wish to say the following: many of my and younger generation people I’ve noticed also we do not identify ourselves by colours.
    It’s a pure nonsense from my perspective, we all here on this planet are “people of colour”.

    I may be bit pale but my eyes see thousands of shades and colours.

    I lived in India since I were 19 year old on and off, that’s some 27 years now and within Tibetan community. I don’t feel any specific preference for “pale faces”.

    People are lovable because everyone is different and unique. Our souls like rainbows display and reflect all colours of the spectral universe.

    People , some of them anyway and before they learn to see will keep labelling and grouping and categorising. It’s like one of those dumb computer games or names repeated ad nauseam. It’s knocking the wits out of me but lets sadly agree that this world is partially inhabited by idiots.
    Clinically speaking people who can not get the point even after many intelligent explanations but like adult babies regressed mentally to toddler age keep banging their fists against their wooden cradle, demanding all the same stuff everyday.

    In some cases since they seem to be bright otherwise it’s probably fault of their mothers for not giving them the right amount of love and support when they still needed it.


    I believe that in thousand years or less the very word for “racism” and its obscure meaning will be unknown and absent from vocabularies.


    There will be new wave of ETs coming for visit as well but the word aliens too will be forgotten.

    This darkness and sufferings of human souls will be washed because it’s washable.


    There will be more genders too and more kinds of new humans than we imagine now.

    Humanity is like a flower with millions of petals and colours to it.


    This awful time of planetary retardation will be overcome

    🌸

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    Default Re: Racism

    So Jess I'm glad you pushed me on this one because it turns out I had a little bit to learn here. That's great on the one hand and aggravating on the other; great cuz I've learned some new stuff and aggravating because i can often be an egotistic c#nt who likes to believe I already know everything, and it's alarming and disconcerting to that side of me when I realize I don't...so damn you (and thank you)

    One of the frequent grievances from black activists is that whites "had a 400 year head start" in America. I've heard this for a while now and it's always confused me. I was aware that the US, as a country, was roughly 250 years old, and I was also aware that some Europeans had arrived earlier, obviously ('1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue'..how could I forget that one?); and I was aware of what my history books had told me about the time between 1492 and the early 1600's, when the first English colony was established; oh, and I'd also seen "Last of the Mohicans". So my knowledge of the African presence in the US is mostly from slavery onwards. I was dimly aware that some Africans had been here prior, but up until now didn't know much about it (and I still don't, to be honest). Maybe Mark will arrive and school me a little.

    Mike, I don't know the exact number of years blacks were brought here either. I DO know it wasn't on an all you can eat and drink, party hardy, adventure cruise. On the other hand, it was kind of an adventure in experiencing brutality, sadism, starvation and death.

    Some other fun facts:

    - the ancestors of our living Native Americans arrived from Asia roughly 15,000 years ago, possibly much earlier (from Asia via Beringia)

    - their name for the country was "turtle island"

    Yes, and some North Eastern tribe, I heard about possibly came from France. How weird is that. Imagine trying to find a decent croissant once you hit the shores of Turtle Island! I have a good friend who is Coast Salish and she is a dead ringer for a Polynesian Hawaiian. She claims that the North American indigenous are a bit of a mix, but mostly from Asia with some of the Coast Salish having Polynesian blood.

    - roughly 500 years before Columbus arrived, America was discovered by some bold ass Vikings led by a dude named Leif Eriksson

    Knew that one!

    - before 1492, Mexico, Central America, and much of the southwest US was known as Meso America, or Middle America

    or however the native peoples referred to it. Maybe shell of the turtle.

    ...but back to the topic. Some googling revealed this quote: the first 19 or so Africans to reach the British colonies arrived in Point Comfort, Virginia, near Jamestown, in 1619

    ...though this is almost universally believed to be untrue. Apparently the first Africans actually arrived 600 years ago...some thought to be free and and some thought to be slaves. It appears they arrived after the Spanish and the French but much sooner than the English.

    That would have Africans arriving in NA before the Spanish and French, if my math is correct. 600 years ago is 1420.

    My feeling is that life was damn near hell for anyone who arrived in America in the 1400's. Not really knowing the status of the Africans here during that time, I can't really say if they had it any worse than the French or the Spanish or the English. So I don't know if the "head start" began back then or 200 years later.

    Life was Hell for everyone before modern general anaesthetic and flush toilets, as far as I'm concerned. But it was double Hell for those who weren't in positions of authority and control, I figur'

    Yes, and per your point - the Natives have the real claim to this land. They've had it worse than all of us put together..and that's really an entirely different topic. It's interesting that they are almost never mentioned when the topic of racism is brought up.. and the reason for that is simple: there's like 4 of them left.

    In Canada they are more visible. They suffered horrendously, but had home team advantage when it came to fighting the original settlers, so probably have always gotten more respect than those displaced away from their point of origin,and placed immediately under the scrutinizing eyes of their masters-- so placed in a position where it was hard to organize to fight.

    Black Africans were often separated from their parents and children as well. Indigenous people didn't go through that particular Hell. Being removed from your family in those conditions is the most traumatic thing a person can go through. It has caused multi generational trauma, including physical effects.


    Racism is a numbers game: the largest groups get the most heat while the most oppressed groups get very little attention for being oppressed, because they're small and incapable of making much noise...and unless you're making some noise, no one seems to care. Math. So in that sense the accusations can be a little distorted..and the grievances from anyone not talking about the Natives, disingenuous. I don't think whites, currently, possess a racism that blacks or asians or indians don't also possess. It's no worse, generally. There's just more of us(in the U.S). So an advantage exists in that sense. It's as deliberate as it is arbitrary.

    There will be many exceptions to this but Asians who are not educated and don't travel outside of Asia are possibly the most bigoted people on earth. It's the same with whites who don't have the opportunity or inclination to travel. Their world view isn't as global as it could be. Racism isn't just about dislikes, hatreds, fears, it's about having contempt for, or feeling superior to.

    If you have ever felt someone's deep contempt and disrespect, you know it's the worst. I have only experienced it once with a close family member and it took tremendous emotional and mental jujitsu and self control to not give in to reacting to it. Yikes. But if you are getting just a little of that, as a black person, from too many white or Asian people? Aye aye aye! I think I'd erupt.

    Yes, black settlers/slaves were here long before the British colonies, but come 1776 anyway.. not nearly as many as whites. European whites held the cards and started a country for themselves. They did it for all sorts of advantages, some of which still exist today. The point I was sort of making before was: is that so unfair?

    I get the feeling I'm misunderstanding your question though.

    I think it is fair if the advantages you carve out for yourself through the country you are creating, aren't done on the backs of black slave labor -- after clearing the country of most of the Indigenous people.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hi Mike, See my response above, in italics.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 4th June 2020 at 21:33.

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    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    No one can do the personal work one might need to do to overcome their own harboring of any form of racism. Most of the planet agrees that racism is a human trait the entire planet's population should transcend as a whole.

    But personal transformation here and there over the course of years doesn't seem to generate needed actual, practical change. At least that's my observation and conclusion.

    I have been searching through every aspect of my being, my soul, my heart (sometimes they seem the same... at least directly connected)... and I have used the faculty of my own (sadly all too limited) mind, striving to find a solution. This is where I realized that if I don't start from the ground up and I don't start locally (or regionally as in the case of the US, my country of birth and my country of citizenship and residency), do I really think a realistic, practical solution could be found? One that actually has a chance to be embraced by enough folks who could organize and actualize the change?

    First, there has to be an identification of a specific problem and a specific goal that reflects the desired change.

    So, for me, considering the above, the problem I see is the problem experienced by the US black community. Yes, racism, especially systemic and institutionalized racism is found all over the world still to this day, but America has a specific, identifiable and unique form of the problem and so it is upon this that I wish focus.

    So... back to seeking a change - where would I need to start to find such a possibility? Where might any of us start?

    I think I have the best answer to that.

    History. Ahhhh, but there's a problem with that, yes? Whose history?

    Not pretending there's a true, objective history available to all which all would accept as such, I have at least identified from where the various potentially qualifying histories might come. And that would have to be from members of the American black community. And why I believe this is where I have to start, is because it is the American black community that has been exploited, abused and yes, victimized over the centuries and this has never stopped. And in this regard, what we are seeing now on the streets of major cities in the US is, again, at least in part, another exploitation and abuse of the American black community - catalyzed by, once again, generating an example that became a symbol of victimization, the murder of George Floyd.

    But of course, it is not just that. In fact, that is not the primary reason for the current further breakdown of civil society in the US. It is because the black community in the US has reached (again) the true and justified boiling point. So what did Americans expect would one day happen? What did the world that is seeing the spillover of reaction to racism think would happen?

    So, back to history - the history of US white (and the rest) on black racism needs to come from those in the black community who have studied that history and know that history... and most importantly, have personally lived with that history and lived with the current reality (which looks pretty much the same from the POV of my American black friends).

    But this then sets up another problem. Can the true history... the honest, objective history of black America be told while avoiding any sort of political slant or any sort of political ideological underpinning which would smack of bias towards that political party and/or political ideology?

    I haven't found it yet. Every source I have sought either directly includes at least a bias towards a political ideology or strongly hints at it. And as worked up as everyone is in the US (and we should include everyone not in or from the US but who has their focus directed upon the US)... as worked up as we/they all appear to be, especially at this time, how realistic is it that these histories be read where a single reader might actually rise above their own political and politically ideological bias, read past, above, through the inherent bias, and avoid getting stuck on politics? One political ideology? ...and instead extract the actual truthful history of how American blacks and America as a whole got to where it is today? Because unless we (yes, I am using "we" now), can do this, how the hell are we who are not black Americans ever going to stand in the shoes of the American black... stand with enough understanding of the actual reality of the history of the black community from the heart and soul of each and every black American that carries this history within them? And how will an American black, if they do not know the true, objective history as to how they got to where they are at now ever reach a point where they would be willing work with Americans as a whole towards real solution? How many times have black Americans been burned? How many times have black Americans found themselves under an impossible metaphorical "knee?" - again and again and again?

    So I have made it my #1 task to seek these histories out and, when I have each one, I will present it. I hope a reader will strive to read with an open mind with regards to any political component, especially with regards to a political ideology.

    I also hope others might contribute in producing a true rendition of centuries of connected history as seen and experienced by black Americans.

    American blacks are not the only group targeted by racism. The global black community is not the only ethnic, racial or cultural group that is targeted by racism. But it will be the American black community history I will be focusing on as, IMO, one has to start somewhere and this feels like the best place to start - stay tuned.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Chester,

    Thanks so much for your contributions to this thread. I particularly appreciated your very honest and open revelation of your own experience of being white and from a middle or upper class family, in jail....as opposed to someone who is poor and black. I don't imagine poor and white fare very well either, but blacks really have the book thrown at them, as you illustrated.

    And yes, history, as it is taught by the colonizers and those who dominate through force, will always be angled. Thanks for making that point, too!

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  37. Link to Post #499
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Chester and collective,

    please allow me to add few personal observations here, freely as my mind flows🙏

    Since I don’t believe in racism. But trying to nip the point in the bud so to say, observing this from evolutionary perspective through out many different cultures.

    Xenophobia - the fear of otherness- is the easiest to observe on personal and family level.
    It’s because each human being with few exceptions is an Original master piece possessing unique combination of genes and part of the greater Original , the Lotus Flower of Humanity.
    If we were all the same with somebody, it would not be us.


    As our parents were different from us so will be our children.

    If genetic engineering wipes out differences we would be boring bunch of drones.

    Where there are differences there is an adaptation process required.

    Though natural at first it takes ages to get accustomed to the bodies of your human parents and differences between you and them.

    It then takes years of learning to coexist with other people in the family, for some of us, our natural lifetime

    Most people who forever left their home in States, Nigeria, the UK, Japan or somewhere else equally posh and homely did it so because between them and their environment/parents/other selves there was a gap, of difference and unique understanding of life pulled us elsewhere.

    Back to where xenophobia reveals itself, in hating your ears perhaps or the mishap of fathers thumb.
    May be you hated the way they were talking to you when you were young and thought you are stupid.
    The way they revealed themselves and their couch manners.


    May be they never wanted to lift off from the ground and feared the sky and the big world though they talked like they’ve been everywhere and knew it all


    They never wanted you to be you and your color did not matter.


    It was the opinion that mattered and whether it agreed with theirs and which side of family are you on. You’re 4 year old, takes sides

    20 years later you’re still you after you’ve tried almost everything, it’s not them.


    Learning to love and accept other people with their uniqueness and differences, it takes lots of work and you need to take it one by one really,
    like in family.

    It takes years before we get accustomed to how everyone look like and sound like around the globe and before we look to each other’s eyes with that knowing look.
    Before we stop feeling so shy about us, then about them, then about knowing.

    But it’s definitely worth it.


    If you take small step within you 🙏it may equal big leap for humanity


    🙏❤️🙏🕊🕊🕊

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    Default Re: Racism

    These are just random thoughts regarding race. My internal dialogue. Some of these thoughts may certainly be controversial but that is OK with me because (like you) I am just trying to figure this out.

    The media and politicians have been saying for decades that we need to have a conversation about race. Then they point out statements from people they believe are racist. The only reason you would call someone a racist is to silence them, to prevent a conversation. It makes no sense.

    If you hear someone make a racist remark don't you want to keep them talking to show them how hurtful those remarks might be the black community. Silence is the best friend of racism.

    Many prominent figures and ordinary citizens have been intimidated into silence, people are unsure of what truly is a racist remark. At the very least you might want to get clarification to understand what the offending party actually meant before shouting racist. Words that might seem racist on the first pass may not be racist at all.

    My way of determining if words are racist is to turn those words around and apply the same meaning to my race. If I find it offensive than it is most likely racist.

    Are the police really at the heart of the current protest and riots or is this an attempt deflect blame away from the real culprit?

    What role does white guilt play in all of this? If you feel guilty about your race doesn't it imply that you feel your race is superior.

    What role does white privilege play in this, if you feel that you were born with white privilege doesn't that imply that you feel that your race is superior?

    Isn't it racist for white politicians to say we can save you from racism? The implication is that black people are incapable of saving themselves.

    What is institutional or systemic racism? Nice words but what do they really mean? Words like this make it seem like all police or all white people are guilty of racism. Could that even possibly be true.?

    What responsibility does the black community have, if any to solve the race relations problems? At first, this might be construed as a racist thought but when you think about it I honestly believe this might be one of the most important questions on the table.

    I believe the media wants to keep the people in a constant hypercritical state on race, politics, environment, and health. They also want people divided and this is evident by their perpetual use of labels.

    How much culpability does the media have, if any regarding race?

    As much as I want to stay away from politics on this issue it is like ignoring the elephant in the room.
    The Civil Rights Bill was passed in the USA in 1964 and it was necessary and good things followed.
    • Ended segregation of public places, including schools, housing, etc
    • Banned employment discrimination
    • It paved the way for the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the Fair Housing Act of 1968

    Lyndon Johnson is credited with passing the Civil Rights Act and it is well documented that he was a racist, this seems to be poetic irony. The truth is, without JFK the Civil Rights Bill would never have seen the light of day.

    We have been languishing in a stalemate on race for the last 30 years. I don't believe the USA has moved forward or backward.

    The Civil Rights Bill married the black voter to the Democrat party. Since 1965 the Democrats have never received less than 85% of the black vote.

    Isn't one of the definitions of insanity doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different outcome?

    Why does the black community vote overwhelmingly for democrats who are vehemently opposed to school choice? Why won't the democrats allow minority children access to the best schools?

    Why does the black community vote overwhelmingly for democrats who strongly advocate for open borders. Don't these immigrants take jobs away from blacks and keep wages low?

    Won't defunding the police hurt minorities in the inner city the most? It seems beyond crazy but I need to try to understand what it all means.

    How much, if any of the rioting is all about people trying to get rid of Trump.

    Many people have adopted a policy of "worse is better," why?

    What does the silent majority think and when will they speak. When they do what will they say?

    Does the Democrat party really believe they "own" the black vote and have they gotten so complacent that they make no effort to earn that vote?

    Are politics and white guilt enabling the black community?

    Does ANTIFA care about race or are they just using the black community to further their own agenda? I believe they could care less about race.

    Does the Black Lives Matter Organization really care about race or do they have a political agenda? I struggle with this because they clearly do care about race and they are very politically driven. Then the question becomes do they only care about Black lives when they die at the hands of police or do they care about all black lives?
    Am I willing to give BLM organization a pass because I am white?

    Everyone seems so intolerant of opposing views do we even stand a chance at any type of dialogue. Silence keeps everything in a static position.

    What is the end game? A better society, socialism or to overthrow the government and remake in someone else's vision. If so whose vision and why?

    What can I do in my daily life to help eliminate racism?
    Last edited by rgray222; 23rd June 2020 at 01:11.

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