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    United States Avalon Member Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Hello, Helene. I believe this may be the first time you and I have engaged directly, although I was well aware of your presence before I left PA, having read many of your posts of the time. I’d like to preface my comments by stating that I respect your perspective and position, as well as your passion in this area of people activity. Thank you for engaging so directly.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    "White Nationalism"? As if "nationalism" alone wasn't bad enough! Two words, both defamed. Nationalism traditionally meant patriotism, pride in one's country. Or at least it did when I was younger. It could possibly today be expanded to also mean protectiveness of one's country in the face of (globalist) assault/attack. But it is increasingly being used in a pejorative way, mainly because of it purposely linked with the word "white". There are among those whom you purport to speak for that would place the word "white" in the dictionary as a synonym for the word "evil" if they could get away with it.
    I use the phrase “White Nationalism” because that is how it has been presented and is familiar to most as being described. Insofar as your description above goes, it is accurate. If it is being used as a pejorative, it is because it represents a movement to return to a past that this nation has been attempting to move beyond consciously for at least a century and a half. A past that encompasses what many see as a proud and respectable history of violence and oppression, one well in line with the general imperial and colonialist historical context within which America was birthed.

    I understand that pride. We are all inculcated with it for most of our lives, to greater or lesser degrees, here in the United States. I myself, being an Air Force brat who lived overseas, had to stand stock still twice a day as a child on American bases overseas as America the Beautiful, God Bless America, the Star Spangled Banner and other nationalistic songs blared over loudspeakers and the cars around me ceased their movement in respect. This is deep conditioning in nationalism. But, I would submit to you, it was also a deep conditioning in support of “White Nationalism” as well, a subliminal and pervasive “tuning” of an elaborate and “mind-controlling” nature that was reinforced on a daily basis by systemic programming.

    I only speak for myself. Often, I speak in generalities that evoke a collective experience of blackness or Otherness, yes. But I do not purport to speak for any groups or any other individual who may share some of my experiences because, obviously, I cannot. I can say that there are indeed groups of blacks and reds that I am familiar with that espouse a form of race hatred. That call white people “The Devil” collectively, that call for the carrying of arms for protection and self-defense.

    But there is a difference and I am quite certain that you are well aware of what that difference is.

    That there is a well-documented and storied history of individual, mob and systemic attacks against blacks and reds particularly in this nation and browns and yellows also. A history that is not dead, to people of those persuasions.

    There is no similar history to "justify" the unjustifiable, for whites. To hate systemically.

    Many of us of the Global Majority who come from Ancestor-based traditions, where those of our dead who lived before us remain with us, observing, interacting and advising through myriad magical, imminently natural means, live every day as the culmination of all who have come before, even if it is not consciously realized. Science calls it Epigenetics, now. And it affects the Oppressed and the Oppressors alike in ways that should be clear to anyone who thinks about it in-depth. While oppression and repression are not new among humans, right here and now, we are dealing with 400-plus years of a particularly vile and onerous form of such that seems to arise for reckoning at different periods of time, each representing a higher iteration of a cyclic process.

    The ongoing genocide against the native people of this continent. That began so long ago and continues today. The Haitian Revolution at the end of the 18th Century and beginning of 19th ended slavery in every part of the Americas except for the US of A, which responded by doubling down on human trafficking. Being “sold down the river” was being sent to the worst area of enslavement; in the cane fields of Louisiana, where life expectancy for the enslaved was drastically reduced and where one side of my mother's people came from in the not-so-distant past. The Mexican-American War which I, as a 6th generation black Texan, view as an attempt by Mexico to halt the spread of slavery. It was too late though, as my direct ancestors on both sides were already here, leading to my eventual birth in the West Texas red dirt and big sky lands of the lower Panhandle.

    I "remember the Alamo" alright, see it almost every time I go to the Riverwalk in Downtown San Antonio. The Civil War and both World Wars, where America has had the chance - and has in many ways - transcended those ancient material excesses and attacks against black and red bodies. Wars which failed to bring the promise of this nation to full fruition for its oppressed populations, even those representatives of those populations that fought and gave up blood, limbs and lives in those conflicts. Then came home to the racism they didn't experience overseas, which they rebelled against! And paid the price. Resulting in the Red Summer of 1919. The strange fruit of black bodies hanging from poplar trees.



    Bodies whose descendants are still here. The vast majority of whom claim THIS country as their only home because their bloodlines, like mine, are comprised of the seed of white slave masters, native American indigenous and African enslaved women, making us quintessentially American, the living proof of the promise of this nation to become something more than the sum of its parts.



    I would submit to you that those material excesses have been refined to a point of near perfection, so much so that a vast number of the majority population actually do not believe that the nation that they love continues to mistreat its Othered populations! Or that they are not the authors of their own disenfranchisement! Because of their intellectual deficiencies, or lack of willpower and intention, as well as many, many, many other stereotypes and mental gymnastics designed to continue generations of oppression. Entire sciences have sprung up around these belief systems that have been debunked over and over again.

    So “white” and “evil” being deemed synonymous? I would not agree with that. The truth is more nuanced, because people are more nuanced. History is more nuanced.

    White people as a whole are not evil, the system itself is, and evil people take advantage of the built-in preferences. Take on the ideology of "White Supremacy" because it reduces competition and satisfies their need to be all-powerful within a pre-existing context. How that looks, is that they and people like them, other white people, are empowered. Systematically. They are in charge and occupy the positions of economic stability and excess, success and power. Because most people across the world are indeed tribal. Including European-descended folks. And white psychopaths rule. They employ white, black, red, yellow and brown sociopaths who do their will. Who repress white, black, yellow, brown and red empaths, which is as it has been since the Hunter/Gatherer days.

    The system was designed that way. That design has been continually reinforced for almost 400 years because it has been successful and serves as a "transport" of sorts, a "time-machine" that carries these ancient, tribal imperatives from prehistory into the future, protected by increasingly sophisticated modalities of transmission of envelopment with corporate and technological carriers/containers. It is a system that has continually produced succedent populations of whites here in America generation after generation who really do have it better as a group. Who really did benefit from that compact between the Elite of the nascent colonies that became America in the 1600s and the poor Irish and others who found common cause with blacks against the class-based economic system.

    Still, and as quiet as it is kept, even poor whites today possess economic power superior to that of minority groups even though they apparently don't realize it.

    Alongside the hate, there was also love. Included with the violence were instances of compassion. If none of it would have happened, the world would not be what it is and we would not be here to witness it and to engage in these interactions, which are so very important as we move forward. Even in our division there is unity, even in our separateness there is togetherness.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Strange that I've been white for decades and never met a 'white nationalist'. Could it be because there is no such thing? At least not in reality, but as a racist construct it exists along with "white privilege" and other weaponized buzz phrases sourced from jealousy, envy, fear and a desire to hurt - at best to shut up and disempower, at worst to eradicate, caucasian people.
    Ok. May I ask who is attempting to eradicate Caucasian people?

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Today's linguistic elaboration of defamation of a race of people comes to us in varying communication media. It's coupled with classes and workshops in "whiteness" (the badness thereof) in our educational system. Two large institutions/industries, media and education, both embodying a degree of authority, allow, some would be tempted to say, encourage, this. And who owns these institutions/industries? The owners of these industries are giving a wide berth of freedom and safety for the defamatory techniques and activities of those who are cavalierly making use of them. What's more, this latter group seems to be blissfully unaware that they are relying on the backing of the richest white boys in the world in having this freedom to publicly nurture their linguistic and activist psy-ops.
    So white people are genociding white people? Aren't whites one cohesive and monumental group? As blacks are? Or browns, reds and yellows? Isn't it much more nuanced? These questions are only slightly facetious, I want to understand clearly. Thank you for your time and attention.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    It's not entirely true what you say about the divide. At least not amongst activists it wasn't. I was a socialist/feminist in college post vietnam war and I attended many functions of black, latin american and the budding gay movement, AND vice-verse.

    Why did we feel unity with eachother back then as opposed to now???
    I would agree with you and DNA about the massive PsyOp that has been proceeding for some time now and that has been exascerbated by the usual tropes, dog whistle politics, police depradations, increasing inequities at every level of society. The divide between white and black as the two extreme ends of the spectrum has been stoked by policies that are further alienating and disenfranchising blacks and browns and reds, while simultaneously goading whites into taking on the mantle of identity politics and an aggrieved minority racial status that is not reflective of the reality on the ground nor the dispensation of privilege and power.

    The current political regime seems to be "pulling up the ladder behind them", so to speak. Protecting the status of those who are already "aboard the Malthusian life boat". Consolidating economic and political power by hook and crook, laws, rules and regulations.

    I would also like to offer the opinion that the reason why that unity is not felt now is because of the directed murders of the 1960s, JFK, RFK, MLK, that traumatized the Baby Boomer generation and revealed the power and directed animus of an unknown Cabal that was too fearsome for most to face directly in their thoughts and belief systems. A Cabal that has since been unmasked, but whose efforts still contribute to the misinformation of the masses through many different programs, from COINTELPRO and its successor programs to the Monarch initiative and its children. The media mind control and directed cultural evolution, the generally known reality of continuing mass assassinations and the pervasive belief in the inassailability of the system directly by groups too small and divided through even more byzantine control modalities. At this point, realities between populations have diverged in the USA so widely that it will require traumatic events to release the hold that the dream has upon so many.

    I am very happy to read that you were engaged in such a manner back in the day. Thank you for your service to humanity and our country.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Because back then class oppression was seen as the source of oppressions. Today everything is race and gender. How galactically convenient for the (white) ruling class of the west. (the east has its own ruling class). The corporate, international oligarchs know the omission of class consciousness in activism and the emphasis on race and gender as the source of oppression is a major form of protection for themselves. Ordinary whites are the patsies, the sacrifice, the distraction, while the western oligarchs press on with their one world government goals almost unnoticed, existence denied by the race and gender crowd. The irony of life! Those who blather on about white privilege doom themselves to protecting it.
    I do not disagree with you on any of your above points. Well said.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    I've already typed too much. I'm getting older and the predictable focus on survival is predominating over caring much more about all this anyhow. Pray the elites don't panic and pull the economic plug... On the other hand if they do, we ALL will find out right quick what our real priorities should have been... thx
    I’m happy to say that I do not agree. You did not type too much. And you're absolutely right about your final point. And perhaps that is the point, eh? Keeping us all distracted until whatever it is they see coming happens and it is too late to do anything about them and what they have done and are continuing to do to us all. I look forward to your response.
    Last edited by Rahkyt; 22nd December 2017 at 00:19. Reason: spelling and grammar

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  3. Link to Post #142
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    Default Re: Racism

    Hello

    Well let me jump in.

    Our premises are very different. Mine is that Life is change, it's nothing but change. Racism is an aspect of life so also changes. In the present year 2017 I feel most of the active racism in the country is going towards caucasians not coming from whites. Racism has changed.

    That's in contrast to your "... we have to deal with racism all day every day." Your selling, I'm not buying. I feel I'm reading posts of someone who enjoys, who relishes, not who is suffering 24 hrs a day, every day and because of your fellow white citizens.

    When I started reading this thread recently I noticed that you were warmly welcomed as someone who had been a member but no one had heard from in a long time but here you are, specifically for this thread. Interesting. I also understand you have a considerable facebook following. You love to write, are a wordsmith and have a teaching, pedantic nature. You may have other activist activities where those talents for expression are utilized, I don't know. Combine all of the above and my hunch tells me you're not here for a camaraderie meeting of the minds, you're shopping. Looking for grist for your mill. See what's up with current meanderings of the misguided, or racist mind so you can take back to your following and deconstruct for their edification. Do I want to help you with this? Not really...

    As mentioned when I was an activist long ago I was a sponge, reading much black and feminist literature and learned a lot. Decades and seeminly worlds later if I read any black activist articles, etc. at all it's not line by line consumption. I first quickly scan to get a sense of something very important I'm looking for and if I don't get it, I leave it. I'm looking to see if the person is interested in unity of ALL citizens, brotherhood, friendship and creating together or are they interested in perpetuating the Tired Usual - viewing whites as the 'other' to be controlled, limited, defined by pejoratives, shut up, excluded... Don't get me wrong, you're very polite which is always appreciated but I don't sense the former set of qualities that would interest me in communicating much. Had enough of the latter.

    I've been listening to black perspectives my entire adult life way more than white perspectives. Isn't that odd? At this point, I'm more interested in what is being done to my race which is kind of a futile interest cause so many whites will head for the hills rather than engage in this plus the fact that there is hardly any place where we can go to discuss such without being monitored, pejoratively labeled or potentially threatened. I remember reading back in 2008 around the time BO got elected an article about a white teenage girl in some high school in CA. She told the reporter that everyday she watched black, chicana, asian kids have extracurricular activities just for their own kind. She was feeling I guess isolated and put up some posters for forming some club for white kids. Somehow the naacp in the city got wind of this and called the principal who forbade her to continue. What small, mean little people the naacp. But that is an aspect of white reality, we don't really have a venue for sharing all the aspects of what life is like for us in the here and now changing western culture and i'm not talking some stupid cointelpro creation like stormfront. I'm talking ordinary folks, like the teenage girl.

    You say "I use the phrase “White Nationalism” because that is how it has been presented and is familiar to most as being described." You let yourself off the hook. You're too smart and too much of a wordsmith to use a phrase "because that is how it is presented." If you didn't want to use the current racist labeling, you're versed enough to have not done so. You used it because you like it.

    Labeling is a racist technique. It didn't stop being a racist technique because now blacks use it against whites instead of whites using it against blacks.
    I didn't read everything you wrote in every post so I don't know if you used the handy-dandy 'white privilege' as well as 'white nationalism' but what I really enjoyed was (from a post to DNA) "... the fear of being a demographic minority has led to a mass projection/psychosis by whites..." So we can now add "white psychosis" to the list of weaponized labels? great, not too racist.

    The latter above is also another oppression technique - trivialization. There is no real 'cultural' genocide of caucasians going on - it's in our heads. Ring a bell??

    You want to bring up everything and the kitchen sink: the Alamo, MLK, slavery, KKK, Von Daniken, Haiti, PTSD and on and on. Not sure if you're trying to impress me or tranquilize me.
    I don't need a history lesson or a psych analysis. I wasn't there, couldn't control it and I don't accept your definitions.

    You'll emphasize "Many of us of the Global Majority.." yet at the same time say, as again mentioned above "the fear of being a demographic minority has led to a mass projection/psychosis by whites..." (Could this be called mind f**king?)... "who come from Ancestor-based traditions..." Hoity-toity, where do I come from, a pickle?

    I see you go to Red Ice Creations which confirms my initial hunch. You troll where somewhat more intellectual whites gather and take note of our concerns, perceptions, etc. to take back as grist for your mill, to deconstruct and objectify us for your audience to help make us more impersonal, more 'the other'... I see your schtick.

    Well, it's been a long day. This is a wrap for me for better or worse. I'd say 'Have fun' but I already know you are.

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  5. Link to Post #143
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    Default Re: Racism

    oHHHH Gosh, do I dislike your post. You are sooooo far from reality that it hurts seeing such. I have seen, read, looked at Rakhyt's participation or absence for years. Yes he is an excellent writer, but a troll, definitely not.

    You see, he has lived racism days in and days out, just for being black. Not against the whites, but plainly just for being black. And yes, you heard about what the white did for your entire life, you know why? because the minorities have to scream out again and again and again, like women have to impose their birth rights, like cripple people have to ask for clemency and help, until it is acquired - and it ain't yet.

    So, he knows the topic inside out, more inside than out, more than you can ever think or see.

    And he decided to use his pen to expose what he sees.

    As women did and do for receiving a blatant treatment of second classe citizen all over the world, as victim of pedophilia did and do and hopefully will do to change the horrific trade and situation. As color people do in a white world. As I would do as a woman in a Orthodox or fundamentalist Muslim or Christian world.

    The troll behavior here seems rather to be coming from you at the present (which I am surprised of, usually I like your posts), doing personal attacks and judging - condemning before having heard and read what someone of Rakhyt's high brain abilities and huge heart knowhow can contribute.

    I have witness Rakhyt being submitted to racism here on Avalon and on other forums years past, having to get away because of it, rather than having writing words that would not give any results on blatantly blind racist comments and behaviors.

    You see? No..... you don't...

    As One of the white niggers of America, as we were called, from generation to generation, here in Quebec, our own land much before the British came here, treated as menial worthless workforce who will never attain any position of power, will be stopped at the door of lower level management because of its origin and language, would not be part of its destiny decided by others. We had to forcefully, through political and creation of laws, take the power of our own destiny. I am old enough to have seen it in action.

    I have been, in my own city, despised, not answered if asking for help, spit on by older men, told that French Canadian are pretty from the toe to the neck, harass for being French, and I know how insidious, insulting, and demeaning, destructive it is.

    I can read, feel, see racism from miles away (as well as sexism).

    And this is the reason why we still impose our rights in Canada, and why they are still regularly trampled - so we have to keep being vigilant.

    Here this was not racism due to skin color, but racism due to culture, language and religion. It had the same impact, we truly believed on an individual basis, that we were born for little crumbs. Until enough was enough.

    Helen, here you are wrong, period.

    You are doing exactly, precisely, what I have seen some men doing when I wanted to start thread about the women situation worldwide - they would so blindly believe what they wrote while being so over bearing and personally attacking on the thread that women could not contribute intelligently anymore and the thread died out.

    This is what I see you bringing in this thread.

    Why not instead of screaming victimhood for the white, anglo saxons, provoking wars all over the planet, taking from the planet and rarely giving back - gosh this is so blind that it becomes almost funny. why not take the actual attitudes of Germans learning in their own school about the second world war in order to never repeat again? Why not find solution instead of

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Hello

    Well let me jump in.

    Our premises are very different. Mine is that Life is change, it's nothing but change. Racism is an aspect of life so also changes. In the present year 2017 I feel most of the active racism in the country is going towards caucasians not coming from whites. Racism has changed.

    That's in contrast to your "... we have to deal with racism all day every day." Your selling, I'm not buying. I feel I'm reading posts of someone who enjoys, who relishes, not who is suffering 24 hrs a day, every day and because of your fellow white citizens.

    When I started reading this thread recently I noticed that you were warmly welcomed as someone who had been a member but no one had heard from in a long time but here you are, specifically for this thread. Interesting. I also understand you have a considerable facebook following. You love to write, are a wordsmith and have a teaching, pedantic nature. You may have other activist activities where those talents for expression are utilized, I don't know. Combine all of the above and my hunch tells me you're not here for a camaraderie meeting of the minds, you're shopping. Looking for grist for your mill. See what's up with current meanderings of the misguided, or racist mind so you can take back to your following and deconstruct for their edification. Do I want to help you with this? Not really...

    As mentioned when I was an activist long ago I was a sponge, reading much black and feminist literature and learned a lot. Decades and seeminly worlds later if I read any black activist articles, etc. at all it's not line by line consumption. I first quickly scan to get a sense of something very important I'm looking for and if I don't get it, I leave it. I'm looking to see if the person is interested in unity of ALL citizens, brotherhood, friendship and creating together or are they interested in perpetuating the Tired Usual - viewing whites as the 'other' to be controlled, limited, defined by pejoratives, shut up, excluded... Don't get me wrong, you're very polite which is always appreciated but I don't sense the former set of qualities that would interest me in communicating much. Had enough of the latter.

    I've been listening to black perspectives my entire adult life way more than white perspectives. Isn't that odd? At this point, I'm more interested in what is being done to my race which is kind of a futile interest cause so many whites will head for the hills rather than engage in this plus the fact that there is hardly any place where we can go to discuss such without being monitored, pejoratively labeled or potentially threatened. I remember reading back in 2008 around the time BO got elected an article about a white teenage girl in some high school in CA. She told the reporter that everyday she watched black, chicana, asian kids have extracurricular activities just for their own kind. She was feeling I guess isolated and put up some posters for forming some club for white kids. Somehow the naacp in the city got wind of this and called the principal who forbade her to continue. What small, mean little people the naacp. But that is an aspect of white reality, we don't really have a venue for sharing all the aspects of what life is like for us in the here and now changing western culture and i'm not talking some stupid cointelpro creation like stormfront. I'm talking ordinary folks, like the teenage girl.

    You say "I use the phrase “White Nationalism” because that is how it has been presented and is familiar to most as being described." You let yourself off the hook. You're too smart and too much of a wordsmith to use a phrase "because that is how it is presented." If you didn't want to use the current racist labeling, you're versed enough to have not done so. You used it because you like it.

    Labeling is a racist technique. It didn't stop being a racist technique because now blacks use it against whites instead of whites using it against blacks.
    I didn't read everything you wrote in every post so I don't know if you used the handy-dandy 'white privilege' as well as 'white nationalism' but what I really enjoyed was (from a post to DNA) "... the fear of being a demographic minority has led to a mass projection/psychosis by whites..." So we can now add "white psychosis" to the list of weaponized labels? great, not too racist.

    The latter above is also another oppression technique - trivialization. There is no real 'cultural' genocide of caucasians going on - it's in our heads. Ring a bell??

    You want to bring up everything and the kitchen sink: the Alamo, MLK, slavery, KKK, Von Daniken, Haiti, PTSD and on and on. Not sure if you're trying to impress me or tranquilize me.
    I don't need a history lesson or a psych analysis. I wasn't there, couldn't control it and I don't accept your definitions.

    You'll emphasize "Many of us of the Global Majority.." yet at the same time say, as again mentioned above "the fear of being a demographic minority has led to a mass projection/psychosis by whites..." (Could this be called mind f**king?)... "who come from Ancestor-based traditions..." Hoity-toity, where do I come from, a pickle?

    I see you go to Red Ice Creations which confirms my initial hunch. You troll where somewhat more intellectual whites gather and take note of our concerns, perceptions, etc. to take back as grist for your mill, to deconstruct and objectify us for your audience to help make us more impersonal, more 'the other'... I see your schtick.

    Well, it's been a long day. This is a wrap for me for better or worse. I'd say 'Have fun' but I already know you are.
    Last edited by Flash; 22nd December 2017 at 02:50.

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  7. Link to Post #144
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Maybe you should not bite DNA
    Obama obeyed, Trump obeys, they all obey to a pyramidal structure in which they are pretty much at the bottom of the top.
    The intelligence agency controls the federal government and the elite Rockefeller type bankers control the intelligence agencies.
    This same deep state controls the main stream media.
    Why did the main stream media and the deep state love Obama so much?
    Why is the deep state's opinion so polarized when it comes to Trump?

    Trump is not following the Globalist agenda.


    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Racism has nothing to do with politics
    I disagree.
    The deep state is using the main stream media to mold public opinion.
    Race is being reported by the main stream media with a powerful charge that is meant to emotionally trigger people.
    Democrats are accusing Trump of being a racist at every turn, they have weaponized the word racist and they hurl it with self righteous impunity.

    The globalist agenda had various steps.
    One involved bombing and destabalizing the Middle East through regime changes.
    Notice the latest victim of this regime change was Assad of Syria, and he would have been killed and beheaded by now if Hillary was in office, but instead Trump has stopped this.

    Hillary would have invited all of these refugees from the Middle East into the USA.
    And just like Europe right now we would have hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring into the United States from countries the USA has been bombing non-stop for fifteen years. Refugees who hate the United States, who hate the western way of life. Thus we would have a Gaza Strip type scenario playing out all over the USA with suicide bombers and such attacking this country from within and destroying it. And when the Globalists offer their solution of a "new world order" a one world government, Americans at this point would be all too happy to join because of how devastated the country had become.

    Trump right now is being called a racist non-stop because he is preventing this.

    No one called Obama a racist when he was drone bombing, killing, displacing and causing mass chaos via regime change.

    So yes, racism plays into politics in my humble opinion.

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  9. Link to Post #145
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    By way of explanation, I will use folks quotes to highlight certain ideas pertaining to racism but I am not responding just to those quotes but also to the larger audience as well. I will not respond to personal attacks.
    I apologize for my "living in a dream world" comment if it was something you considered a personal attack. If it is any consolation I lived in a similar dream world for a while.
    I'm a recovered democrat. I considered voting democrat and applying myself to a liberal philosophy to be the antithesis of the Bush regime.
    9/11 was just so obviously a inside job.
    I voted for Obama the first time around and I fell into many fierce debates, arguments and out and out fights defending him.
    The national defense act that was passed on new years eve was an eye opener for me. I was to soon learn that I had been duped.
    And no man that calls himself a humanitarian drone bombs. As a consequence Obama has drone bombed and killed more people via this method than any other president including George W.
    Obama's bungling of Iraq was entirely intentional in my opinion and wikileaks has shown so many instances of Obama's regime via Hillary creating Isis to act as a proxy army in Syria as to remove all doubt in my mind that this is what has happened.
    So Obama is absolutely responsible for human trafficking in terms of Isis selling women and slaves.
    You must pardon me how I have to find some humor in the left referring to Trump as a racist when Obama is responsible for so much death, destruction and misery.





    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I will tell you without hesitation that I am absolutely through with partisan politics.
    Yes. I understand. That is fine and your choice. I am not through with them. In my life, directly, and the life of my children and extended family, politics plays a real and valid role. If I do not engage in politics, then my interests are not represented and it affects me materially. I suppose it is nice if your life is beyond such things but mine is not. Nor are the lives of those I love.
    This is an argument for ignoring the truth if it does not enable happiness in you. That is a dangerous game as far as I'm concerned.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    What many do not realize is how much politics affects those who are not a part of the "American Dream". It is literally life and death.
    So you ignore America's actions in the rest of the world as long as your domestic policy suits you?



    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Knowing this space, many would scoff at statistics provided by government bodies and organizations you may consider "Fake News"
    You are very correct here.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    so I have no intention of going that route. This has been a personalized discussion throughout, so I am going to keep it that way in my contributions. Perhaps some of y'all's lived experience, driving over freeway arches beneath which hovels and ghettos are huddled, or through city streets where sullen young men lurk, has given you some indication that not everyone has access to the same perception of reality. That there is, literally, another world directly beneath the one that some of you may inhabit, that was created by more than just the depredations of a capitalist class system, but by some other greater, all-encompassing system of exclusion and repression.
    But then, since they wear combat boots and street gear, perhaps some think their bootstraps are strong enough to pull themselves up by? My story is different. I grew up in the military industrial complex, on Air Force bases around the world, going to Department of Defense schools, receiving one of the best educations possible for children who come from no means. I have had opportunities that even other black kids who came up the same way I did, did not have. Those of us who are blessed or cursed that way have a responsibility to those who have not had the same opportunities. To represent a perspective that is not widely shared or known. To show what the possibilities of this great nation truly are and should be, if we only open to it instead of shut it down and wall it off.
    Statements such as this can usually be boiled down to a more concise and streamlined message. I'm taking a chance here, as such please tell me if I'm wrong.
    Here is the message I see.
    "It is more important that disenfranchised people who have given up on hope in America in the black community see Obama as an image of hope and equality rather than the truth, and I feel it is my job to contribute to that image so as to foster hope rather than hopelessness".




    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    The fact that we see the deep state at such odds with Donald Trump is evidence enough to me to at least consider that he is not in line with the banking elite and their invasion of the middle east war agendas and their destroying the middle class of America agendas.
    That is all well and good. I applaud his stance and, to a certain extent, I agree that this is what it looks like. But, to address the aspect of racism implicit in this subject, what is troubling is that he embraces policies that are being enacted that will have a demonstrably negative effect upon black, brown and red populations.
    You should share the policies in question. There were policies I initially found myself quite angry about until I figured out the bigger picture. I might be able to shed some light here.


    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    When it doesn't have to be that way. He supports groups that, if empowered further than they already have been, will actively attempt to reduce the quality of my life and the lives of those I love. If this is what the new world is going to look like once the Cabals hold over the American political, economic and cultural system is broken, it is not in my interest to support it. Lives are and will continue to be lost and homes and people broken. Black, brown and red people, disproportionately so.
    You have to be more specific if we are to have a conversation when it comes to these groups.
    When it comes to the Cabals, I will tell you what I think. Donald Trump seems to be in opposition to them at every turn.
    In the end the Cabals only want 500,000,000 people in the world.
    And for the most part, they feel they can fall far below that initially as they craft their one world government.
    I'm guessing for the most part you, I and everyone we know and love will not be a part of that.
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I'm guessing you are talking about the tea party.
    No. That was in 2008-9 right after Obama's first election. What stands out as a turning point in my mind - in the AltCom specifically - is when Red Ice Radio interviewed John Lash.
    Just for the record quite a few folks around here look at John Lash as a turd in the punch bowl. For the last few years he has been accused of succumbing to some kind of rock star ego mania and attempting to bed a great deal of his female students while saying disparaging and sexist things about women in general.
    I never understood the attraction to Lash in the first place having read the Nag Hummadi Library and Castaneda already myself when he had come to prominance, Lash made a living out of quoting people. He is kind of like a cover band that got famous for covering other people's songs.


    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    This is also something that the KKK and Aryan Nations have highlighted as well for a long time.
    If these two groups exist outside of the prison system then they are so minute as to hardly be a concern.
    I've lived in predominately black neighborhoods and I've known racist black people that tolerated me while we worked together or shared mutual friends.
    I've also known racist white people under the same circumstances.
    I've seen culture erode some of these hatreds in whites to an amazing degree.
    Siblings or children marrying a person of color and then having relatives that were of color. Nothing melts hatred like having your grandchild bouncing on your knee and they were of the color you used to hate.
    Mean while people on facebook are sharing instances of the stupidest white people doing ignorant/mean/racist things as if this is representitive of the whole.
    And the media is feeding an emotional charge to folks in regards to there being a kkk or aryan brotherhood.
    I'm telling you these groups are a boogeyman for the left to help create anger and hatred to be politically harvested.



    Just for the record I could present data to you that would show you that many of the racist KKK rallies of late were orchestrated by the left who even added actors to try and present the white boogeyman, but you would probably call that fake news.


    Okay Rahkyt
    I gotta run.
    Take care
    And I hope you have a good day
    Last edited by DNA; 22nd December 2017 at 05:53.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    More about Thailand, or at least a 'farang' perception of it. (Farang simply means foreigner, not a local, not like us - probably comes from F(a)r-an-cais.)

    There is a general consensus amongst Thais that white people are awkward, ungainly, they lack grace and are rather like bumbling oafs. I can't say I disagree too much as far as generalisations go.

    Within the Thai population there is also a largely unspoken eliticism based on skin colour, and results in a distinct class system, which seems rather at odds with the above generalisation regarding 'farangs'. You see the whiter your skin the more noble/regal you are. The wealthy tend to be white, whilst the poor are more brown. Someone suggested having money afforded one to stay out of the sun and not labour in the fields under a hot sun. Over a few generations I guess such people would be growing 'whiter'.

    The poor of Thai society still have a subset of humanity they can mock if they need to gain some false comfort that way. They ridicule the hill-tribe peoples as backward/stupid/uneducated.

    It would seem, taking a lot of posts/points into consideration that a driving force behind all these isms may be forming out of group-think as Herve pointed out here.

    Ultimately though it comes down to ego, wanting to feel 'special'. A bunch of like-minded egos are apt to conjure up an 'enemy' to strengthen their false securities just as the individual ego will.

    I've noticed a few defensive posts appearing in this thread but when one is only discussing experience and opinion there is nothing to defend.

    If one feel the need to resist another idea/viewpoint to such an extent then perhaps it is time for a little self-reflection - for we are all sharing this same reality, merely viewing it from different perspectives.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Flash
    I'm out of touch with reality but you are in touch? Fine. My family is white, southeast asian and black. I've lived in 3 cities, all working class, heavily diversified neighborhoods and I've been an activist. If that is out of touch well then very few will live up to your high standards. I called him on what I feel he is doing. And that's that. You want to believe he is bringing 'peace on earth good will towards men..." so you believe it. I don't. I've read him and many like him, he's contributing to whites being "the other". So my interest up and walks out of the room...

    the only thing I have to add is the way he likes to say "black, brown and red" notice he leaves out yellow?
    I think it's because he can't BS yellow.
    thx

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  15. Link to Post #148
    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    The fact that we see the deep state at such odds with Donald Trump is evidence enough to me to at least consider that he is not in line with the banking elite and their invasion of the middle east war agendas and their destroying the middle class of America agendas.
    That is all well and good. I applaud his stance and, to a certain extent, I agree that this is what it looks like. But, to address the aspect of racism implicit in this subject, what is troubling is that he embraces policies that are being enacted that will have a demonstrably negative effect upon black, brown and red populations.
    You should share the policies in question. There were policies I initially found myself quite angry about until I figured out the bigger picture. I might be able to shed some light here.


    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    The President you support does not support me and those who are a part of me. Not just black folks, but brown folks, red folks. People I know.
    [...]
    I would assume that by now we would either see this as an injected divide and conquer issue (my vote), or a provable case of racism.
    If you don't see it I can't help you. That is actually not my issue nor concern. I'm not here to argue anyone's position. As I've perused this thread I've been very happy to see that people have allowed each other their opinions and understandings without being belligerent or ugly about it. I hope that shall continue. My response about the president was based upon my perspective as a black American man of a certain socioeconomic level. And upon my perusal of a wealth of information. I do not require the validation of anyone here to support or dismiss what I know to be true. It should be very clear by now that perspective is everything. That "truth" depends upon where you sit. Ultimate Truth is something else altogether.

    When I asked I was told it was perspective and opinion, which is fair enough.

    But when the word policy is used.... well that was my original question, which policies exactly (ie what are the references)? I don't have time to read them all, there's very possibly something I've missed; I also think this would lend support to your apparent position. I certainly would be providing links by now, many links to why I have formed an opinion or idea on something.

    But then I approach topics with the mentality that I know very little about most topics and need to find "backing" or "references" to help come to an opinion. I understand that this (unfortunately) is an area you are well versed in and may not need to do the same but for the "audience" it is still highly useful.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    United States Avalon Member Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Hello, Helene. I said I was looking forward to your response and you do not disappoint.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Hello Our premises are very different. Mine is that Life is change, it's nothing but change. Racism is an aspect of life so also changes. In the present year 2017 I feel most of the active racism in the country is going towards caucasians not coming from whites. Racism has changed.
    Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

    Racism is not the same as prejudice. Those whom you consider engaging in racism do not believe they are superior. They are prejudiced, instead. Another way of viewing it is that Racism = Prejudice + Power. Those who are merely prejudiced therefore cannot be racist as they hold no power.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    That's in contrast to your "... we have to deal with racism all day every day." Your selling, I'm not buying. I feel I'm reading posts of someone who enjoys, who relishes, not who is suffering 24 hrs a day, every day and because of your fellow white citizens.
    I do not consciously relish suffering, although I am incarnate in this earthly realm, which implies a certain amount of desire on the part of my Oversoul to engage in such. But if that is so on my part, it is so on all of our parts, as we are all in the same boat.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    When I started reading this thread recently I noticed that you were warmly welcomed as someone who had been a member but no one had heard from in a long time but here you are, specifically for this thread. Interesting. I also understand you have a considerable facebook following.
    I have 1500 or so friends, which is relatively small considering FB allows 5000. My posts get some discussion it is true, as those 1500 friends are primarily people I know personally and we engage about issues of interest to us all. I generally post spiritual and personal development memes tho', and everyone likes those because we all need uplifting sometimes. I have a blog with 3 pages, one devoted to spiritual writing, another devoted to race and culture, another devoted to poetry and prose. Visitation is relatively sparse, I get likes every now and then, 2 - 4 on average for a single post. Just google my moniker "Rahkyt" if you really want to know who I am.


    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    You love to write, are a wordsmith and have a teaching, pedantic nature.
    Guilty as charged.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    You may have other activist activities where those talents for expression are utilized, I don't know. Combine all of the above and my hunch tells me you're not here for a camaraderie meeting of the minds, you're shopping. Looking for grist for your mill. See what's up with current meanderings of the misguided, or racist mind so you can take back to your following and deconstruct for their edification. Do I want to help you with this? Not really...
    I said when I first returned, that I was here to create a record. To engage in this discussion here, in PA, one of the major AltCom venues. I came back here because I know people here. Because I have friends who are still here. And because Bill posted up a thread about racism, which, I felt, was long overdue. If you do not want to communicate that is fine, Helene. Because you responded to me I am responding back, but if further interaction is not desired, that is fine as well. Thank you for what we have already shared in creating together.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    As mentioned when I was an activist long ago I was a sponge, reading much black and feminist literature and learned a lot. Decades and seeminly worlds later if I read any black activist articles, etc. at all it's not line by line consumption. I first quickly scan to get a sense of something very important I'm looking for and if I don't get it, I leave it. I'm looking to see if the person is interested in unity of ALL citizens, brotherhood, friendship and creating together or are they interested in perpetuating the Tired Usual - viewing whites as the 'other' to be controlled, limited, defined by pejoratives, shut up, excluded... Don't get me wrong, you're very polite which is always appreciated but I don't sense the former set of qualities that would interest me in communicating much. Had enough of the latter.
    That is exactly what I am interested in. And a google search of my writings will show you exactly that. The "unity of ALL citizens, brotherhood, friendship and creating together". Just because you don't see it does not mean it is not so. There are many others who have seen it. And there will always be those who disagree based upon their perceptions. And that is fine.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    I've been listening to black perspectives my entire adult life way more than white perspectives. Isn't that odd? At this point, I'm more interested in what is being done to my race which is kind of a futile interest cause so many whites will head for the hills rather than engage in this plus the fact that there is hardly any place where we can go to discuss such without being monitored, pejoratively labeled or potentially threatened.
    I see. I'm sure there are private forums and sites where such things are possible without outside interference.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    I remember reading back in 2008 around the time BO got elected an article about a white teenage girl in some high school in CA. She told the reporter that everyday she watched black, chicana, asian kids have extracurricular activities just for their own kind. She was feeling I guess isolated and put up some posters for forming some club for white kids. Somehow the naacp in the city got wind of this and called the principal who forbade her to continue. What small, mean little people the naacp. But that is an aspect of white reality, we don't really have a venue for sharing all the aspects of what life is like for us in the here and now changing western culture and i'm not talking some stupid cointelpro creation like stormfront. I'm talking ordinary folks, like the teenage girl.
    Thank you for sharing that perspective. To the extent that there are many young whites out there now who have no context for what is happening, because they have been sorely mis-educated and have very little idea about how the world got to be the way that it is, I agree with you that such a space is necessary. All of the Millennials have been, regardless of race. They have almost no idea about the true nature of the creation of this nation or the depths of the events that have occurred on this continent because the schools do not teach it. And so misinformation is rife, as is conflation, on both sides.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    You say "I use the phrase “White Nationalism” because that is how it has been presented and is familiar to most as being described." You let yourself off the hook. You're too smart and too much of a wordsmith to use a phrase "because that is how it is presented." If you didn't want to use the current racist labeling, you're versed enough to have not done so. You used it because you like it.
    No, I use it because it is the common vernacular. It is not a matter of "like" or "dislike". Like it or not, certain phrases have achieved mainstream approbation. This is one.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Labeling is a racist technique. It didn't stop being a racist technique because now blacks use it against whites instead of whites using it against blacks.
    Labeling, stereotyping, generalizing, are human techniques.


    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    I didn't read everything you wrote in every post so I don't know if you used the handy-dandy 'white privilege' as well as 'white nationalism' but what I really enjoyed was (from a post to DNA) "... the fear of being a demographic minority has led to a mass projection/psychosis by whites..." So we can now add "white psychosis" to the list of weaponized labels? great, not too racist.
    No, it is not.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    The latter above is also another oppression technique - trivialization. There is no real 'cultural' genocide of caucasians going on - it's in our heads. Ring a bell??
    It is not trivial because it is resulting in death and destruction. A continuation of policies of oppression and a fear-based response to the inevitable demographic shift of this nation.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    You want to bring up everything and the kitchen sink: the Alamo, MLK, slavery, KKK, Von Daniken, Haiti, PTSD and on and on. Not sure if you're trying to impress me or tranquilize me.
    I don't need a history lesson or a psych analysis. I wasn't there, couldn't control it and I don't accept your definitions.
    Neither. This is really not about you. As I've also said, I may answer people in specific quotations, but I am writing for those who are out there reading. Creating a record.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    You'll emphasize "Many of us of the Global Majority.." yet at the same time say, as again mentioned above "the fear of being a demographic minority has led to a mass projection/psychosis by whites..." (Could this be called mind f**king?)... "who come from Ancestor-based traditions..." Hoity-toity, where do I come from, a pickle?
    I do not know. But it is true that Europeans also come from such a tradition. Because of Christianity and the Reformation and the Protestant Ethic and the Scientific Method and many other causes, those traditions have been suppressed historically. It is good that they are returning to the forefront as more Europeans embrace their ethnic roots. I'm thinking particularly here of Asatru and traditions like it.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    I see you go to Red Ice Creations which confirms my initial hunch.
    The last time I went to Red Ice was in 2014, I believe, when that John Lash interview was posted. I may have gone back within that year or 2015 once or twice.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    You troll where somewhat more intellectual whites gather and take note of our concerns, perceptions, etc. to take back as grist for your mill, to deconstruct and objectify us for your audience to help make us more impersonal, more 'the other'... I see your schtick.
    It is good to be seen. Even when that "seeing" is incorrect.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Well, it's been a long day. This is a wrap for me for better or worse. I'd say 'Have fun' but I already know you are.
    Thank you, Helene. Have a wonderful day.
    Last edited by Rahkyt; 22nd December 2017 at 15:48. Reason: spelling

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  19. Link to Post #150
    United States Avalon Member Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    I have seen, read, looked at Rakhyt's participation or absence for years. Yes he is an excellent writer, but a troll, definitely not.
    Thank you for the gift of presence, Flash. For these years of intense and transformatory interaction in the AltCom, regardless of Forum or topic.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    I have seen, read, looked at Rakhyt's participation or absence for years. Yes he is an excellent writer, but a troll, definitely not.
    Thank you for the gift of presence, Flash. For these years of intense and transformatory interaction in the AltCom, regardless of Forum or topic.
    I wrote this to the mods' team just now. Kudos to everyone who's contributing so thoughtfully to this most excellent thread.
    The Racism thread is now raising the bar re the remarkable quality and intelligence of the discussion, very much further catalyzed by Rahkyt returning to offer his views. It was doing really well before, but now among all our recent threads it may be in a league of its own. Do take a look.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Rahkyt

    I see you posted another disquisition. Just letting you know I'm not reading it. I read enough of them. I'm sure others will like it and support you. I understand where you're coming from and I stick to my assessment thereof... there are sites and social media of black and Hispanic folk, you could probably call them more independent and conservative who feel and value something different than you. Thank God. They uplift me. You don't. I'm jealous of my time and energy and I will give it to those who don't intend to view me and mine as "the other" and keep the divide going. They do exist. H

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    United States Avalon Member Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racism

    Dude. DNA. LOL

    I have searched all of my posts in this thread and the only time I mentioned Obama was in speaking of the Red Ice Radio video and the fact that it came out in 2014, during the Obama era. Where did you get the idea that I am a big Obama fan?

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I apologize for my "living in a dream world" comment if it was something you considered a personal attack. If it is any consolation I lived in a similar dream world for a while.
    I saw you sitting in a red chair with mirror glasses on, staring at me as the Matrix claims me when I read that. It was more your final statement in that comment that I found to be an attack. S'all good.

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I'm a recovered democrat. I considered voting democrat and applying myself to a liberal philosophy to be the antithesis of the Bush regime.
    I am not a Democrat. But my family members are. They are not me, although we support many of the same goals. My sight is much higher, as I hope you remember. In regards to Obama tho', since we're here, the drone bombing plus when he sanction Hillary's destruction of Libya was the clearest indication for me that he was just another tool of the elite. It actually was before then as well. I wrote about it here in 2008. Here in 2012. And here in 2013. These are very old articles and I haven't read them in years. Enjoy if you feel inclined to read them to see what I really thought about Obama.

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    This is an argument for ignoring the truth if it does not enable happiness in you. That is a dangerous game as far as I'm concerned.
    truth. Or Truth. Determining such is a dangerous game. Being incarnate upon a prison planet is a dangerous game. Life, is a dangerous game. I am very wary of conflating the higher Truths with the lower truths these days. It is a way that people use semantics in order to project different things that, while seeming to be objective, are subjective. Happiness is not at issue. It is fleeting and a transitory state in the best of times.


    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    So you ignore America's actions in the rest of the world as long as your domestic policy suits you?
    Not at all. What are you talking about? Is this about Obama again?

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    You should share the policies in question. There were policies I initially found myself quite angry about until I figured out the bigger picture. I might be able to shed some light here.
    I am very much open to hearing what you have to say on this matter.

    GOP tax bill: A new mechanism for reinforcing white power

    5 Ways the Republican Tax-Reform Plan Hits Black Folks the Hardest

    Poor kids eating free breakfast? Not if congressional Republicans have their way


    Trump travel ban: supreme court allows enforcement as appeals proceed


    Senators, White House lay groundwork for Dreamers dea

    Look past the sites themselves and address the topics they cover, please, to all that may choose to respond to this particular listing of articles.


    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    You have to be more specific if we are to have a conversation when it comes to these groups.
    When it comes to the Cabals, I will tell you what I think. Donald Trump seems to be in opposition to them at every turn.
    In the end the Cabals only want 500,000,000 people in the world. And for the most part, they feel they can fall far below that initially as they craft their one world government.I'm guessing for the most part you, I and everyone we know and love will not be a part of that.
    Any group that espouses that race-mixing is wrong, that other ethnic groups outside of white are lesser, that policies of segregation and separate and unequal are necessary. Also those who preach genocide against any other group. Agreed re the Cabals.

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Just for the record quite a few folks around here look at John Lash as a turd in the punch bowl. For the last few years he has been accused of succumbing to some kind of rock star ego mania and attempting to bed a great deal of his female students while saying disparaging and sexist things about women in general.
    I never understood the attraction to Lash in the first place having read the Nag Hummadi Library and Castaneda already myself when he had come to prominance, Lash made a living out of quoting people. He is kind of like a cover band that got famous for covering other people's songs.
    Now that is a perspective I can get with and I'm glad to hear it.


    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I've seen culture erode some of these hatreds in whites to an amazing degree.
    Siblings or children marrying a person of color and then having relatives that were of color. Nothing melts hatred like having your grandchild bouncing on your knee and they were of the color you used to hate.
    Mean while people on facebook are sharing instances of the stupidest white people doing ignorant/mean/racist things as if this is representitive of the whole. And the media is feeding an emotional charge to folks in regards to there being a kkk or aryan brotherhood. I'm telling you these groups are a boogeyman for the left to help create anger and hatred to be politically harvested.
    Agreed.

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Just for the record I could present data to you that would show you that many of the racist KKK rallies of late were orchestrated by the left who even added actors to try and present the white boogeyman, but you would probably call that fake news.
    This would be a good thread to share such info in.


    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Okay Rahkyt
    I gotta run.
    Take care
    And I hope you have a good day
    The same to you!
    Last edited by Rahkyt; 22nd December 2017 at 16:21.

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  27. Link to Post #154
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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    When I asked I was told it was perspective and opinion, which is fair enough.

    But when the word policy is used.... well that was my original question, which policies exactly (ie what are the references)? I don't have time to read them all, there's very possibly something I've missed; I also think this would lend support to your apparent position. I certainly would be providing links by now, many links to why I have formed an opinion or idea on something.

    But then I approach topics with the mentality that I know very little about most topics and need to find "backing" or "references" to help come to an opinion. I understand that this (unfortunately) is an area you are well versed in and may not need to do the same but for the "audience" it is still highly useful.
    You are absolutely right. Forgive my seeming flippant reply. I have provided some above in my response to DNA, in regards to policy. To recount quickly, the Dreamers, the Muslim Ban, the Tax Bill, Free Lunch for poor kids are a few of the issues I question. I look forward to your response. I am here to engage actively with those who think differently than I, and I suppose you are one of those. Thank you for your engagement.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    the only thing I have to add is the way he likes to say "black, brown and red" notice he leaves out yellow? I think it's because he can't BS yellow.
    Because this is referring to me, I will respond. Anytime I am mentioned as if I am not present, i will respond.

    Asians are called the model minority. As I have said previously, East Asians and Southeast/west Asians DO experience racism here in the United States, for some it can be as intense and psychologically devastating as it is for other groups. I do not include them in my designation of "black, brown and red" because of that difference in economic and social interaction with whites. Chinese and Japanese culture in particular - and intermittent examples of Southeast Asian culture - are considered by many to be "High Cultures", because they are so old, as is the Hindu Aryan culture of India. Even tho' some of those folks are as dark as I am they can check "white" on American and Global race checklists.

    I have no idea what Helene means by BS'ing yellow.
    Last edited by Rahkyt; 22nd December 2017 at 16:37. Reason: add a link

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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    It should be very clear by now that perspective is everything.
    perspective
    2. a particular attitude toward or way of regarding something; a point of view.
    projection
    1. an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
    2. the presentation of an image on a surface, especially a movie screen.
    Psychological projection
    - a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

    For example, a person who is habitually intolerant may constantly accuse other people of being intolerant. It incorporates blame shifting.




    _______Late Add_______

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    That "truth" depends upon where you [psychologically] sit. Ultimate Truth is something else altogether. -- (Added Empahsis mine.)
    Last edited by turiya; 24th December 2017 at 11:02.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Well, it's a hard knock life for a lot of folks. Refusing to conform to that which makes no sense to me has put me outside the fence surrounding the party the "in" crowd is having. And that's fine with me. I'm a white woman and life has been a real struggle for me.

    I don't think a woman president is going to make it any better for me. I have to make it better for me by changing my perspective.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    It should be very clear by now that perspective is everything.
    perspective
    2. a particular attitude toward or way of regarding something; a point of view.
    projection
    1. an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
    2. the presentation of an image on a surface, especially a movie screen.
    Psychological projection
    - a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

    For example, a person who is habitually intolerant may constantly accuse other people of being intolerant. It incorporates blame shifting.




    _______Late Add_______

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    That "truth" depends upon where you [psychologically] sit. Ultimate Truth is something else altogether. -- (Added Empahsis mine.)
    Perspective is indeed everything, Turiyah. In this matter of racism though, there is a truth beyond perspective. Because that is so, I would like for you to clarify what you are referring to when you speak of psychological projection in reference to this topic. I do not want to reply in depth without being absolutely certain to what you are referring.

    If you've read all of my offerings you will realize that I am not proceeding from a Democrat/Left Wing perspective dependent upon talking points and support from political positions or personalities. So please keep that in mind, I would very much like to know your thoughts directly.
    Last edited by Rahkyt; 26th December 2017 at 15:23.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    It should be very clear by now that perspective is everything.
    perspective
    2. a particular attitude toward or way of regarding something; a point of view.
    projection
    1. an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
    2. the presentation of an image on a surface, especially a movie screen.
    Psychological projection
    - a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

    For example, a person who is habitually intolerant may constantly accuse other people of being intolerant. It incorporates blame shifting.




    _______Late Add_______

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    That "truth" depends upon where you [psychologically] sit. Ultimate Truth is something else altogether. -- (Added Empahsis mine.)
    Perspective is indeed everything, Turiya. In this matter of racism though, there is a truth beyond perspective. Because that is so, I would like for you to clarify what you are referring to when you speak of psychological projection in reference to this topic. I do not want to reply in depth without being absolutely certain to what you are referring.

    If you've read all of my offerings you will realize that I am not proceeding from a Democrat/Left Wing perspective dependent upon talking points and support from political positions or personalities. So please keep that in mind, I would very much like to know your thoughts directly.
    Mind changes. That's what mind does - it changes.

    I have to re-mind the woman I live with of that, continually. Because she always is bothered when I suddenly change my mind about something. Whether it be about going to this restaurant or that one, whether to see this movie or that one. Or, to make this for dinner or something else. Mind continually changes. That's what mind is about. It changes.

    To know my thoughts directly is not possible. It is not really possible. To know anybody's thoughts directly is not possible. The best that has been ever done is by analogy, or by metaphor, or by parable. That is the closest. And that would be for that specific moment at that particular time.

    I say this because distortions will always be present to one degree or another. Mind wavers. There's always new information coming in, and old information that is discarded. Mind is in constant flux.

    A speaker says something. Chances are that the listerner will hear something different. Its because minds are different. Something said is distorted by the listener as it passes through the mind. The mind will interpret something different than what had been said. It may be a slight difference, but it still will not be exact to what the speaker is transmitting. There will always be an interpretation that is being made.

    Yes, you can say,
    'What is said gets lost in translation.'
    Consider a white light passing through a prism, it will come out divided into many different colored perspectives. Mind is very good at breaking things down into its separate parts. Its good at analyzing, dissecting, categorizing, interpreting. It is what mind does best. It is a tool. It serves science well.


    Mind is like a prism.


    Consider, meditation is a mind without thoughts moving through it. Like a still, calm lake reflecting the moon in the night sky. Reflecting perfectly what is brought in front of it.


    Now consider, a thought rising in the mind - like a pebble dropped into that still calm lake. And with it comes a rippling harmonic-like effect that moves across the surface of that still, calm lake...


    Can you really say that the mind moving with thought, with many thoughts, with a whirlwind of thoughts - will such a mind reflect the moon in the same way?


    Michael Jackson says (paraphrasing),
    "Look at the man in the mirror.
    Deal with that man in the mirror.
    If you want to change the world,
    then change that man in the mirror."

    Most of what has affected our lives has been done to us at a very young age.
    It is when we are children that much of what has been done to us, what has been taught to us, what has been conditioned into us, had been done when we were young. It makes a huge impression. Alot of it comes from our parents, or lack of having parents being there.

    The basic reason why one would have a disdain for another is because they have a basic disdain for themselves. If you want more love to bloom in this world, then start with yourself, start with loving yourself.

    If you see that another has a problem with the color of another's skin, with the opposite sex, with different nationalities, with cultural differences, then its that person's individual problem. The person needs therapy. Why make it your problem? Why make a bigger problem by involving yourself with another's problem. It would be making it a greater problem than what it already is. It would soon be on its way to becoming a world problem. And that's what is happening, here-now.

    The other is obviously living in a kind of hell of his own making. Why would you also want go to hell with him? It would be an entire waste of time. There's much better things to do..... Or, not...

    A Storm of Thoughts Distorts
    the Ability to See Clearly

    Last edited by turiya; 27th December 2017 at 15:11.

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    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    The basic reason why one would have a disdain for another is because they have a basic disdain for themselves. If you want more love to bloom in this world, then start with yourself, start with loving yourself.
    Thank you for that balm of higher energy. I always appreciate a return to reality within the dream. The dream that we all cohabitate to greater or lesser degrees. Would you say the hermetic "As Above, So Below" is relevant here as well? If individuals who hate do so through forms of personal prejudice - empowered as racism - do groups hate as expressions of racism? Hutus racist against Tutsis? Japanese racist against Koreans?

    Does "group love" then consist of people within the dominant group determining what it is about themselves they do not love and beginning to work with that in order to self-heal? And the institutions they have implemented over time to support themselves and their progeny through the deliberate codification of hate? National days of atonement perhaps? Legislative review parties to overturn laws that benefit them?

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    If you see that another has a problem with the color of another's skin, with the opposite sex, with different nationalities, with cultural differences, then its that person's individual problem.
    It becomes others' problem when they act on that hate. Find others to hate with them. Have hater parties where they lynch, rape and make laws that treat them differently than those they abuse. Foment cultural and societal niceties that are more lenient toward those like them when they fall astray of those laws. That punish those unlike them strictly according to the letter pf the law at the same time, bolstering their prison-industrial complex and providing cheap labor for the corporations they buy from and work for and invest in for retirement.

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    The person needs therapy. Why make it your problem? Why make a bigger problem by involving yourself with another's problem. It would be making it a greater problem than what it already is. It would soon be on its way to becoming a world problem. And that's what is happening, here-now.
    I would submit to you that that is not in the least what is happening here. The problem is not new. The hate is not new. Both are culturally programmed and endemic spanning generations. That the genesis of the problem was a great crime against humanity that has not been resolved. And that the real problem is the refusal of those who feel put upon by the existence of this crime to recognize their culpability as inheritors of the system created to cover up the crime and erase it from the history books.

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    The other is obviously living in a kind of hell of his own making. Why would you also want go to hell with him? It would be an entire waste of time. There's much better things to do..... Or, not...
    That is absolutely so. That hell is so clearly seen to those who may not have the wealth but do possess the peace of mind provided by a clear conscience. Those with justice on their side do not want to go to hell and will not be taking on the dark dreams of their oppressors no matter how much they project their own fears upon us. Fears that the oppressed will oppress them. Or that they will be subjected to genocide. We do have better things to do.
    Last edited by Rahkyt; 28th December 2017 at 07:33.

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