I don't know what shape the earth is, but look at this

[Sunny-side-up]

Posted by Ewan (here)

Posted by misbis (here)
.... I have wandered since childhood about the light perspective of sun light.Only close object can cast light in such way

misbis, only a distant light source can cast near parallel shadows.



The closer the light source is the more divergent the resulting shadows.

Yes Ewan and that certainly blows big holes in some of the moon landing images ha.

[Kano]

Posted by Kano (here)
These are sane, logical questions to ask and if that leads someone into exploring Flat Earth, so be it.

Yes. But maybe for no more than half an hour of intelligent thought, backed by verifiable facts (and personal experience!) — all very easily found.

This is a generalization that makes several assumptions and I would respectfully disagree with this entire statement.

(Educated people knew the Earth was a globe 2,250 years ago, which means 2,200 years before NASA.)

Many "educated" (again, a relative term) people of antiquity also believed the earth was flat.

And if someone's a Flat Earther who claims they've looked into the details, but has never heard of Eratosthenes (and quite a few Flat Earthers haven't) — then there's a real problem with where people to go for their information.

I think the point is that unless you've been to space to see the Earth for yourself, we are all just speculating with data given to us by known frauds. One has faith we live on an oblate spheroid or one has faith we live on a flat plane. Each side of the argument believes it has 'verifiable facts'.

I'm not saying I'm a flat earther but I can see it from that perspective.

[daviddjg23]

i know its a globe NASA say ..............

An they are really in space not a swimming pool.....

all my life the north star aint moved yet if we are moving so fast surely in 30 years they would be different by now?

[Hervé]

Posted by Kano (here)
[...]
One has faith we live on an oblate spheroid or one has faith we live on a flat plane. Each side of the argument believes it has 'verifiable facts'.
[...]

When facts are verifiable, one has no need to resort to belief or faith, whatsoever.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Intentions aside, please, for all that's holy, stop riding this bus! The earth is not flat.

Here is the only way it could be flat - if some group of highly intelligent alien entities built it themselves then plopped us all onto it.

The geometry of reality unfolds from the triangle, try it for yourself. It unpacks from two dimensions to three - naturally. And its natural shape is the sphere, again by design. This is not something that can be falsified.

Therefore, if there has been no tampering by god-like beings then we live on a sphere, like all the other heavenly bodies. It is the natural order of things.

No faith needed, just some time, a protractor, a pencil, and some paper. Be your own god, unpack reality for yourself.

addendum: It came to me to point out an interesting and not often talked about fact. As you fold the simple pyramidal shape out of paper, if done right, it becomes evident that there is a missing dimension. There are spaces that the triangle 'folds over' instead of filling. It takes a bit of patience and perseverance but the missing space can be felt and even seen as the folding continues... (hint: it takes extra sides to see clearly, by adding fifth and sixth sides that overlay each other)

[Nick Matkin]

Posted by Kano (here)
I think the point is that unless you've been to space to see the Earth for yourself, we are all just speculating with data given to us by known frauds. One has faith we live on an oblate spheroid or one has faith we live on a flat plane. Each side of the argument believes it has 'verifiable facts'.

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement and one that can only be made by someone with zero comprehension of modern engineering, navigation or communications, let alone understanding the observations, basic measurements and a whole community of amateur astronomers!

How can anyone believe the (roughly) spherical shape of the earth is "faith" when they live in a developed nation? This data is given to us by "known frauds"? You need to get out more lad!

It is not speculation FFS!

What are people like you really up to?

(Wasting my time here I know, but I can't help myself... )

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The only thing Flat Earthers fear is sphere itself.

I could not resist.

[Foxie Loxie]

Too funny!!!

[Kano]

Posted by Kano (here)
I think the point is that unless you've been to space to see the Earth for yourself, we are all just speculating with data given to us by known frauds. One has faith we live on an oblate spheroid or one has faith we live on a flat plane. Each side of the argument believes it has 'verifiable facts'.

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement and one that can only be made by someone with zero comprehension of modern engineering, navigation or communications, let alone understanding the observations, basic measurements and a whole community of amateur astronomers!

I'm sorry you don't understand it. While you mention basic measurements and astronomers, are you aware of how tragically flawed the equation to describe the curvature of the Earth is? My guess is no. And with all our modern engineering and communications, how it is that we can send satellites all over the solar system but we can't take a picture of the entire Earth in one single photo? Not once with all our technological expertise did we just turn Hubble around to take a picture of the Earth? Nope, we just take pictures of parts of the Earth and then assimilate them into the globe we see like a puzzle. How come? Seems that would be easy to do yet we have not done it.

How can anyone believe the (roughly) spherical shape of the earth is "faith" when they in a developed nation? This data is given to us by "known frauds"? You need to get out more lad!

Yes, NASA is a fraud of an agency if there ever was one. I'll try to get out more if you try to educate yourself on both sides of the argument more.

It is not speculation FFS!

I appreciate your strong opinions. You're passion for your ideas is palpable.

What are people like you really up to?

Well, I work a lot but try to research in my down time. I watch my man Harry Kane every weekend emerge more and more as the best striker in the world. And I try to be a good husband. I'm not some kook as you have insinuated.

Wasting my time here I know, but I can't help myself...

If this is true, not sure why you responded at all.

I have to say I am surprised how much fringe flat earth topics have been met with vitriol here on PA - the place 'chronicling the human awakening.' Instead there are responses like Mr. Matkin's and Praxis's with all kinds of negative insinuations, connotations and outright rudeness. Wonder why considering all of the other topics that get discussed on this site?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Kano (here)
here on PA - the place 'chronicling the human awakening.'

Project Avalon is chronicling that a LOT of people are becoming more awake and aware not only to demonstrable facts, real events, and other phenomena (aided by the internet, for sure), but also to psy-ops of every kind.

But not everyone is becoming more awake and aware. Some, taken in by what they see on the internet, compounded by their lack of knowledge and/or ability to use critical thinking, are not becoming more awake at all, and in some cases may be slipping in the opposite direction.

[misbis]

Posted by Praxis (here)

Posted by misbis (here)

Posted by Justplain (here)
By the way, the Earth is a sphere. I have flown over frozen Greenland to get to Europe, I have cruised on a ship from Sidney to Hong Kong in March and it went from hot summer to cool spring. It took fourteen hours to fly home. The changes in seasons are perfectly explained by a spherical model as days get shorter as the sphere angles away from the sun. Time zones follow this rule too. The moon is a ball, just use binoculars and you can see. The sun is a ball, the planets are balls, so is the Earth. Flat Earth is a waste of time psy-op diversion.

I have flown too, a lot, been on private ship around.....but I can not say for sure, what is the shape of the earth. But I have wandered since childhood about the light perspective of sun light.Only close object can cast light in such way

You need to stop everything in your life until you sort yourself out. If you truly believe that the earth is flat, which is what you are clearly hinting at, then leave this place and start doing some very simple research.

The whole flat earth idea is ridiculous nonsense by people who have ZERO understanding of anything in the physically reality.

Kano is absolutely correct about the oblate spheroid.

I do not discourage questioning reality at all, but this is so blatantly stupid that I can not comprehend how flat earthers do not drown when looking up at the rain.

Either that or expand upon your cosmology as you clearly understand things about our solar system that we do not. I have no idea what you are talking about how the light cast in such a way from only close objects.

First, define close, as it is relative.

Second, expand upon this light perspective that puzzles you.

You are beating around the bush about Flat Earth ideas and using the UN logo as a means to do so.

Either speak plainly about what you are thinking or dont waste time of the readers.

I said, I don't know what is the shape.I never BELIEVED anything in my life, I have to know. And since the powers to be deceive us, I don't consider the official knowledge for true. So,simply,I don't know. I haven't been in stratosphere high enough to see self what it is

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by bill ryan (here)

Posted by kano (here)
here on pa - the place 'chronicling the human awakening.'

project avalon is chronicling that a lot of people are becoming more awake and aware not only to demonstrable facts, real events, and other phenomena (aided by the internet, for sure), but also to psy-ops of every kind.

but not everyone is becoming more awake and aware. Some, taken in by what they see on the internet, compounded by their lack of knowledge and/or ability to use critical thinking, are not becoming more awake at all, and in some cases may be slipping in the opposite direction.

i really hope you don't mean me. If so, please send me pm with direct advice.So far,I always have been loyal to Avalon,supported the project ,I-m not here to make problems

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by misbis (here)
I have to know.

You can know. You don't have to believe a thing. And none of this is to do with NASA.

1. Just phone a friend in Australia, New Zealand, or Hawaii and ask them if it's day or night. (I'm sure many Avalon members in different locations would be willing to help. We can even open a thread where everyone reports in real time what angle the sun (or moon!) is in the sky.)
2. Next time there's a lunar eclipse, look at the shape of the earth's shadow.
3. Borrow a telescope. See for yourself that every celestial body is a sphere.
4. Go on a cruise (or ask someone to take you ocean sailing), and see both land and ships disappear below the horizon as the distance increases.
5. Get a drone with a GoPro camera at sunset, and see the sun appear to 'rise' again as the camera increases in altitude.

If you do at least some of those, and still don't know, then you're stuck in confusion. (Some people are. They're glued to 'don't know' and seem to regard that as an intellectually strong position to be in. It's not.)

[Wind]

I fail to understand the logic of Flat Earthers or the lack of it should I say.

You can question NASA and you definitely should too, because they are not honest about everything and never have been... But that doesn't mean that they would fake everything. That's just an insane way of thinking. For example they can't fake things like sunspots because people can see them without the help of NASA. Or why would all space imagery be only CGI? Was the space footage filmed in the 60's CGI too? That's literally impossible.

https://www.boredpanda.com/flat-eart...wer-elon-musk/

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=45ZW93IvFJU

[misbis]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by misbis (here)
I have to know.

You can know. You don't have to believe a thing. And none of this is to do with NASA.

1. Just phone a friend in Australia, New Zealand, or Hawaii and ask them if it's day or night. (I'm sure many Avalon members in different locations would be willing to help. We can even open a thread where everyone reports in real time what angle the sun (or moon!) is in the sky.)
2. Next time there's a lunar eclipse, look at the shape of the earth's shadow.
3. Borrow a telescope. See for yourself that every celestial body is a sphere.
4. Go on a cruise (or ask someone to take you ocean sailing), and see both land and ships disappear below the horizon as the distance increases.
5. Get a drone with a GoPro camera at sunset, and see the sun appear to 'rise' again as the camera increases in altitude.

If you do at least some of those, and still don't know, then you're stuck in confusion. (Some people are. They're glued to 'don't know' and seem to regard that as an intellectually strong position to be in. It's not.)

I'm going to delete my post,(or ask a moderator to do this)because it was not a point to start such a heavy discussion globe or flat. I just found this old photo ,from 1947 inside UN and for me was interesting and wanted to show others.All what you suggest,Bill, I have done years ago,long ago,before Internet and flat eart clips on youtube. And I have my own questions,but I'm not going to share ,since it is so sensible .

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by misbis (here)
i really hope you don't mean me. If so, please send me pm with direct advice.So far,I always have been loyal to Avalon,supported the project ,I-m not here to make problems

Thank you.

My best response may be to cite my other post, where I really did respond to you.

Not knowing is sometimes intellectually weak, not intellectually strong. It really is possible to know some things. Knowledge really is power, in many ways.

It's not about loyalty. It's about being willing to learn new things.

I really understand that when you started this thread, you were genuinely puzzled — and had NOT known about that particular map projection before.

But now you do. Several members immediately, and kindly, explained it.

Your own challenge now (and we each encounter this, from time to time) is to integrate that new information, and re-examine what you feel you now know.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by misbis (here)
I have to know.

You can know. You don't have to believe a thing. And none of this is to do with NASA.

1. Just phone a friend in Australia, New Zealand, or Hawaii and ask them if it's day or night. (I'm sure many Avalon members in different locations would be willing to help. We can even open a thread where everyone reports in real time what angle the sun (or moon!) is in the sky.)
2. Next time there's a lunar eclipse, look at the shape of the earth's shadow.
3. Borrow a telescope. See for yourself that every celestial body is a sphere.
4. Go on a cruise (or ask someone to take you ocean sailing), and see both land and ships disappear below the horizon as the distance increases.
5. Get a drone with a GoPro camera at sunset, and see the sun appear to 'rise' again as the camera increases in altitude.

If you do at least some of those, and still don't know, then you're stuck in confusion. (Some people are. They're glued to 'don't know' and seem to regard that as an intellectually strong position to be in. It's not.)

[misbis]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by misbis (here)
i really hope you don't mean me. If so, please send me pm with direct advice.So far,I always have been loyal to Avalon,supported the project ,I-m not here to make problems

Thank you.

My best response may be to cite my other post, where I really did respond to you.

Not knowing is sometimes intellectually weak, not intellectually strong. It really is possible to know some things. Knowledge really is power, in many ways.

It's not about loyalty. It's about being willing to learn new things.

I really understand that when you started this thread, you were genuinely puzzled — and had NOT known about that particular map projection before.

But now you do. Several members immediately, and kindly, explained it.

Your own challenge now (and we each encounter this, from time to time) is to integrate that new information, and re-examine what you feel you now know.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by misbis (here)
I have to know.

You can know. You don't have to believe a thing. And none of this is to do with NASA.

1. Just phone a friend in Australia, New Zealand, or Hawaii and ask them if it's day or night. (I'm sure many Avalon members in different locations would be willing to help. We can even open a thread where everyone reports in real time what angle the sun (or moon!) is in the sky.)
2. Next time there's a lunar eclipse, look at the shape of the earth's shadow.
3. Borrow a telescope. See for yourself that every celestial body is a sphere.
4. Go on a cruise (or ask someone to take you ocean sailing), and see both land and ships disappear below the horizon as the distance increases.
5. Get a drone with a GoPro camera at sunset, and see the sun appear to 'rise' again as the camera increases in altitude.

If you do at least some of those, and still don't know, then you're stuck in confusion. (Some people are. They're glued to 'don't know' and seem to regard that as an intellectually strong position to be in. It's not.)

Thank you and good night.All this experience with this treat,made me only sad

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by misbis (here)
Look at the background. UN from 1947,when declare Israel state

Attachment 36560

PLEASE SOME MODERATOR TO DELETE MY POST. It obviously created a lot of problems between members. Apology.It was not ment

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Wind (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=45ZW93IvFJU

What I really respect about Joe Rogan is that he's not dumb at all, he's really very smart. I'd not even heard of the Japanese Himawari 8 satellite, which he mentions.

I looked it up. Nothing to do with NASA. Here it is:

• https://himawari8.nict.go.jp

And here's a screenshot... dawn on the Gold Coast of Australia right now, in real time. Go figure.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by misbis (here)
PLEASE SOME MODERATOR TO DELETE MY POST. It obviously created a lot of problems between members. Apology.It was not ment

Hey, thanks. You were just asking an honest question, and that's all 100% fine.

But now you know about the Azimuthal map projection, which you didn't before.

We can't delete the opening post of a thread, because that deletes the entire thread.

All discussions have to start with something! And if someone else joins in the thread who's a Flat Earth believer, then you didn't personally didn't make that happen.

Any irritation from members towards someone who just can't (or won't) see or understand something that they think is obvious is understandable, and that discussion can sometimes be valuable and interesting.

* If you'd not started this thread, I'd not have learned about the Himawari 8 satellite (see my post immediately above). So there's a good example of how I've learned something, too...

[Kano]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Kano (here)
here on PA - the place 'chronicling the human awakening.'

Project Avalon is chronicling that a LOT of people are becoming more awake and aware not only to demonstrable facts, real events, and other phenomena (aided by the internet, for sure), but also to psy-ops of every kind.

But not everyone is becoming more awake and aware. Some, taken in by what they see on the internet, compounded by their lack of knowledge and/or ability to use critical thinking, are not becoming more awake at all, and in some cases may be slipping in the opposite direction.

Thanks for that, Bill. This is your forum and a great forum it is - the best actually. But no one person is in a place to say who is becoming more awake and aware and who is not. Further, no one is able to say how one becomes more awake and aware. It would be the height of egotism to assume that someone is in a position to decide those things.

[Ewan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Wind (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=45ZW93IvFJU

What I really respect about Joe Rogan is that he's not dumb at all, he's really very smart. I'd not even heard of the Japanese Himawari 8 satellite, which he mentions.

I looked it up. Nothing to do with NASA. Here it is:

• https://himawari8.nict.go.jp

And here's a screenshot... dawn on the Gold Coast of Australia right now, in real time. Go figure.

All the technical data you could probably want. I went searching because I wondered just how far a satellite would need to go in order to do that, or what kind of imaging system it was using. It seems it still being achieved by a series of images 'stitched' together.
I rather feel, without any expertise, that in order to get a view of the entire planet you'd have to be 'higher' (relative term) than any current satellite is capable of going.