I don't know what shape the earth is, but look at this

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by daviddjg23 (here)
Burn them hes a witch burn him

Obviously i cant win whatever i say.

Keep that sense of humour intact ...

[Wind]

[Baby Steps]

Yes, so if there is a two-pronged awakening going on , consisting of the following:

1. A shift of some kind whereby increasing numbers of people start to feel at the Soul/Intuitive level that there are a lot of lies or fake realities - that are accepted as real.
2. This is accompanied by a growing feeling that the information we are fed cannot be trusted, because there are forces at work that WANT us to remain ignorant, and we begin to see why

Then we get many people discounting reality, and disappearing down false rabbit holes, because they rightly do not trust what they are told. We get the forces that thrive on propagating false reality EXPLOITING this process to lay traps, and pepper new information with falsehood.

What to do?

Why not have a forum where people with sufficiently high knowledge, expertise, and discernment, who are open to knew information and realities, can discuss & debate things openly to try and resolve things- and sort the wheat from the chaff. If we do this, then each time a brave person expresses confusion and asks questions openly, we recognise it as an opportunity to assist learning for the benefit of the wider community. We celebrate the brave individuals who ask questions fearlessly and thank them.

Oh.....

[Apulu]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

NOT making progress, and NOT trying to, is not a healthy condition. It's NOT a statement of wisdom or strength to proclaim that one doesn't know, and wear it like some kind of badge of honor. It's a confession of confusion and/or inability — in some cases. That doesn't support sovereignty, clear thinking, or any kind of inner strength.

It's like someone who can't write, or tell the time. Those holes in our ability to interact meaningfully with the logic of the world do NOT help us to lead proactive lives that matter.

I'm not going to assume that you're directly referring to me here Bill, but as I've recently said that I don't know, for sure, that the Earth is round, it's a little hard not to. Maybe I can clarify what I mean by that, and why I said it.

Hopefully you, and others, can see that I'm not saying "I don't know" in support of flat earth, or just to be contrary, and have another opinion, for the sake of it. I've said the following in my post on page 4 already, but just to be clear: I would agree, that it would be pretty unreasonable of me, from what I've so far deduced, NOT to operate on the basis that the earth is round. It certainly seems to be.

The reason I would, however, insist that I don't know this for certain, was maybe not explained very well, by me. Maybe it's not something to go into much here - it's perhaps way more contentious than I thought it was.

I'd like you, and others, to know my reasons for bringing the topic of "not knowing" into this thread though.

To my mind, it's more than reasonable to assume that the earth is round, and to bring in any number of arguments with someone who insists that it's flat. And I can see that if someone continues to insist that it's flat, whilst trying to convince others that it's flat, it's not going to go down very well here, and I think with good reason.

But for someone to insist that they know, for certain, that it's round, whilst ridiculing another persons flat-view, doesn't sit very well with me. And so I found myself trying to point out that we are all in the same boat here, in a way, no matter what we believe.

There are certain things that seem beyond reasonable doubt. To question them, for the sake of it, or to question them without properly considering solid and well thought out arguments, seems pretty pointless.

If, however, someone insists that they know things for certain, and is also treating another belief with contempt, or at least strong incredulity, I would advise them to look at their own beliefs. Something that is beyond reasonable doubt is never beyond doubt itself, and can't be.

Whilst we use our senses, or any instrument, to perceive what is "outside" of consciousness, how can we be CERTAIN about anything outside of consciousness itself? This argument, to my mind, is infallible, but, I would agree, has limited use in a thread like this.

Again, if anyone insists that they know anything for certain, whilst pointing the finger at another person's "wrongness", I may have to insist that they don't actually know anything, for certain, and neither does anyone.

[petra]

Posted by daviddjg23 (here)
...i really dont care what shape anything is anymore only that people be respectful to each other.

My thoughts exactly! Isn't that funny. Arguing about shapes is almost as foolish as arguing about colors. Is it blue or green? Teal or turquoise? I feel like I want to punch myself in the face already

[petra]

Posted by Paul (here)
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the "why can't we all just get along" crowd.

I agree with you Paul, being able to debate without flying off the handle is the only way to get things to move forward. I'm just totally mind boggled at the semantics of flat earth.

[Hervé]

Well... there is that thing that walks like a duck, squawks like a duck, dives like a duck, flies like a duck, etc... and, according to some intellectual view of the universe, one cannot attain the certainty and knowledge that it is NOT a Siberian tiger?

There is that other thing called a 3D physical universe that's not to be confused with some enchanted personal universe in which one could pick an apple from an orange tree and taste like a pine apple... and happily debate with anyone that it couldn't be an apple nor an orange nor even a pine apple... only the fruit of one's fertile imagination!

[Apulu]

Posted by Hervé (here)
Well... there is that thing that walks like a duck, squawks like a duck, dives like a duck, fly like a duck, etc... and, according to some intellectual view of the universe, one cannot attain the certainty and knowledge that it is NOT a Siberian tiger?

There is that other thing called a 3D physical universe that's not to be confused with some enchanted personal universe in which one could pick an apple from an orange tree and taste like a pine apple... and happily debate with anyone that it couldn't be an apple nor an orange nor even a pine apple... only the fruit of one's fertile imagination!

Do you really want to debate this?! To my mind it kind of goes nowhere, except, ehm, nowhere. Loved all the animals and fruits.

Why bring Siberian tigers into it (other than cos it was quite funny)? It's a duck. The question is, what's a duck? What the hell is an intellectual view of the universe? Other than a really silly one?

Is there a 3D physical universe? What's physical? What's a universe?

I will indeed debate with anyone who insists they are not dreaming their 'reality'. Perhaps not for very long though. If my apple is a pineapple to you, fair enough. Just don't insist it's a pineapple. My apple tastes great.

[Kano]

I'll say this here: those who derailed the thread were Kano, and daviddjg23. Till they stepped in with VERY silly views, the discussion had been a very peaceful one, about map projections, and shadow creation from distant light sources, which some may have found interesting and valuable.

The very title of this thread suggests that the OP was trying to explore different perspectives about the place we live. Derailed? Not hardly.

Silly views? Why because I don't worship the religion of science? Because I dare question the mainstream "truth?"

I too am surprised this forum isn't open to a discussion about this - very surprised. However, souls that used to live on Mars that came to Earth in stones and reincarnated in a 10 year old boy - of course, let's make a video about that (and many, many other topics which are far more "out there" than questioning where we live).

This is not a fair and balanced approach to chronicle the human awakening.

I respect you a great deal, Bill. But this is quite out of character for the person whose work I have followed for over a decade.

I make these comments in the spirit of growth and understanding and my wish is that they are not received any other way.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Looked like a real sudden drop - avg for this time is around 600 - 700????

EDIT: Climbing back to that now?? Please delete my posts if necessary - that was weird

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by daviddjg23 (here)
Burn them hes a witch burn him

Obviously i cant win whatever i say.

Keep that sense of humour intact ...

From the mods' running 24/7 Skype chat:

~~~

Bill: Hey, Paul, is it okay to delete the aside (started by KiwiElf) on the Flat Earth thread about the number of visitors?
Paul: Sure - if you want - doesn't matter to me
(That or change the subject to "forum visitor count", and delete the other 95 posts )
Bill: Ha!
Yes.... no big deal here. (That thread could veer off anywhere, anyway, like a wonky shopping cart with a bad wheel)
Paul: ... with square wheels
Square wheels are to round wheels as flat earths are to round earths
I should start a thread, done in a serious technical/scientific tone, proving that the earth is not flat and round, but flat and square.
But before I do that, I'd better make sure Bill's magnesium intake is high, so that his heart rhythm is stable under stress
Bill: Well, maybe it's a cube. Then there could be six separate civilizations all living here, and none of them would know about the others.
Paul: ah - cube - genius
Bill: (cube) — that's where the Mayans went: they disappeared over the edge, and relocated
(Maybe the Nazis did that, too)
The problem with posting jokes like this is that some people would probably believe it...

[Mike]

Bill I wish you would post more mod chats! They're fun to read and a a great laugh!

For Kano,
I hear you. But using your example there, I would say that things like a soul coming to earth in a rock and reincarnating as a 10 yr old boy ( is that really a thread topic here? LOL) or any of the other fantastical things that are often discussed here, are left alone mainly because they're open ended. In other words, they cannot be definitively disproven. They occupy a kind of paranormal niche that resists black and white judgements. It's nebulous. Whereas the shape of the earth is pretty well proven.

Having said that, I've seen the mods and/or Bill come down pretty firmly on some of those silly threads and posts as well. No one has the time to address all of them of course.

The issue is, if we can't agree on some very basic, fundamental things, we have no point of relativity from which to operate from and we just kind of flail in the wind. Its important to have a foundation. Saying "well we can't prove anything ultimately so why try?" may have some deep spiritual relevance, but it leaves us with zero intellectual integrity. And while we're here in 3d, we need points of relativity and intellectual integrity. It's part of the rules of the game here.

Imagine if we brought that existential attitude to a murder trial LOL! "Yes we've got motive and DNA blood evidence and 3 witnesses to the murder, but ultimately we cant really prove anything so ...(shrug)....case closed..."

There's a time and a place for head in the clouds and there's a time and a place for feet on the ground. The wisdom is in knowing the difference

[Apulu]

Posted by Mike (here)
Bill I wish you would post more mod chats! They're fun to read and a a great laugh!

For Kano,
I hear you. But using your example there, I would say that things like a soul coming to earth in a rock and reincarnating as a 10 yr old boy ( is that really a thread topic here? LOL) or any of the other fantastical things that are often discussed here, are left alone mainly because they're open ended. In other words, they cannot be definitively disproven. They occupy a kind of paranormal niche that resists black and white judgements. It's nebulous. Whereas the shape of the earth is pretty well proven.

Having said that, I've seen the mods and/or Bill come down pretty firmly on some of those silly threads and posts as well. No one has the time to address all of them of course.

The issue is, if we can't agree on some very basic, fundamental things, we have no point of relativity from which to operate from and we just kind of flail in the wind. Its important to have a foundation. Saying "well we can't prove anything ultimately so why try?" may have some deep spiritual relevance, but it leaves us with zero intellectual integrity. And while we're here in 3d, we need points of relativity and intellectual integrity. It's part of the rules of the game here.

Imagine if we brought that existential attitude to a murder trial LOL! "Yes we've got motive and DNA blood evidence and 3 witnesses to the murder, but ultimately we cant really prove anything so ...(shrug)....case closed..."

There's a time and a place for head in the clouds and there's a time and a place for feet on the ground. The wisdom is in knowing the difference

I would tend to agree. For the earth-shape debate, "don't know, can't know", seems about as useful as a frying pan made of margarine. For my part in this "can't know anything" bit, I was attempting to use it as a way of asking some slightly over-zealous round-earther's to go easy a bit. I don't think it worked. But it's been interesting!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Apulu (here)
I'm not going to assume that you're directly referring to me here Bill

I was referring primarily to felix roseczky, Kano and daviddjg23.

It's okay for someone to say that they're in the process of reviewing information in order to reach a conclusion. That's admirable. It means they're willing to do a little work.

So in this case (to these three I named, but maybe there are others lurking here), please come back tomorrow and let us know what you've decided, and (out of interest) how long it took you to reach a decision, and why.

Longer than that, and there's something wrong. As I wrote earlier, it should take no more than half an hour flat (so to speak ), if one WANTS to decide.

And I say the latter advisedly. Don't wear your indecision like a badge of honor.

That's just wearing a T-shirt with I'm dumb... on the front with ... and determined to stay that way on the back.

Posted by Mike (here)
Bill I wish you would post more mod chats! They're fun to read and a a great laugh!

We do have some fun sometimes. But the jokes, which are occasionally quite clever, are quirky with no malice directed at anyone. I have to say, though, we do get a little frustrated now and then — and humor is often the antidote.

At other times we discuss things of considerable seriousness, and, maybe several times a year, we find ourselves troubleshooting heavy-duty backchannel intrigues that reach us via various means. And, contrary to some rumors, we care about people in the community here far more than many might readily believe. We probably spend more time trying to get things right, for individuals and for everyone, than maybe even all the other forums put together.

But, in general, we don't suffer fools gladly. To reiterate what I said above, in a different way:

• It's fine to be a fool occasionally. We can all get things wrong. But don't make it a permanent condition.

We'll simply relocate you on another facet of the Earth Cube, where (a) we can't see you and (b) we won't have to deal with you any more.

[KiwiElf]

LOL - sorry Paul & Bill - stuck it on here at the time so it would be at the top of "recent posts" - (couldn't be sure Paul would see it otherwise, he had his cloaking sphere on...) ...I realise what it was now; the Earth tilted momentarily & the visitors fell off the edge,... (delete, delete!)

[Cardillac]

I still can't believe there are 6 pages on this forum discussing whether the earth is flat or not- am I on the wrong forum?

Larry

[Kano]

So in this case (to these three I named, but maybe there are others lurking here), please come back tomorrow and let us know what you've decided, and (out of interest) how long it took you to reach a decision, and why.

I can say that I am in the process of doing the research. So, I will not have any decision to report tomorrow. But what I can provide, once I get a little more free time, are things that were head scratchers for me regarding the ball Earth. Maybe once I provide my evidence for why I decided to take this research on, you and others of the same mindset can chime in with the evidence you have to make counter claims vis a vis a healthy discussion on the nature of reality.

That is all I've ever wanted and that's why I have been here since the beginning of PC and PA1.

Moreover, I see there are several members who do not want a flat earth conversation on this thread (or maybe this entire forum). So if it is more appropriate, perhaps a new thread can be started if it will be allowed to be discussed here at PA.

[KiwiElf]

Ahhhh Larry, there's even two newer psyop variations running now:

1. The Earth is convex,
2. We all live under a dome

It's like the Nigerian scam... *mutter* *mutter*

[Tintin]

Posted by Cardillac (here)
I still can't believe there are 6 pages on this forum discussing whether the earth is flat or not- am I on the wrong forum?

Larry

Larry, that was funny, and you are definitely on the right forum: you're in the right place

A part of me does wonder whether the very idea of flat earth should be entertained at all here. I mean, it is really a very silly notion indeed, and, as rightly determined quite some time ago, and not just in this community, is a very naughty piece of psy-op indeed. Oh dear.

I, if I ran a forum, wouldn't entertain it at all, but, in the spirit of creating an environment where people can express a view about this, at all, I do get where we're at here. For now, I'm treating it, the very idea of flat earth at all, absolutely mainly as entertainment and I do appreciate the humour, certainly from Bill, underpinning some commentary on the thread. In many ways the very idea of flat earth, well, really is extremely entertaining and silly, and, who couldn't laugh. It doesn't preclude anyone from grappling with the idea of it, of course. Personally, I simply can't. For me it is a piece of comedy.

Yep, we do care here, enormously, and respect others' views, but do have a sense of humour too. Let's enjoy these moments

To parody a film title: A Funny thing Happened on the Way Through the Forum.

On a slightly more contemplative note, I do think misbis was coming from a genuinely sweet and decent place and could have been made to feel less intimidated. I hope she does return.
With love

[Hazelfern]

Misbis will certainly bail after all of these shenanigans, if she hasn't already.

> I do not want her to bail, I would really like to see her post again. <

[bobme]

Just trying to help.

Now, if the earth is flat, Where is the straight line? The shadow is the earth, understand. You can see it in real life with your eyes, apologies to those that are truely blind, or have vision problems, yet I see a curve in the shadow of the earth on the moon.

Why is there no Straight line? If the earth is indeed flat, Would there not be a flat line on the moon, as opposed to the obvious curved line we see? Love ya all. But please explain if you can answer me.