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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Helene --

    But this view that the female gets to force their definitions on the culture carte blanche is not correct either. There's 2 genders and we have to meet in the middle

    We are ALL living in Patriarch societies where Organized Patriarchal religions -- male-supremacist religions --
    have forced their "opinions" on our culture for women and children to live by.

    Therefore, females have no ability to FORCE anything on our patriarchal societies -- in fact, women are
    facing the loss of reproductive freedom -- women and families.

    Right wing VIOLENCE has succeeded in many areas of forcing women to travel great distances to secure
    an abortion.

    Not that Elite-Patriarchy doesn't also abuse males. It does.

    Remember that Slavery was Constitutionally protected until the Emancipation.

    Women are do not have Equal Rights under our Constitution.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Kiwi --

    You're in total denial of the long history of male violence against women -- and the continuing violence
    against them currently which continues their oppression.

    PC is an invention of the right wing to try to disavow hate speech against women -- the stuff called to
    them on our American streets -- and on campuses.

    I don't know any male who wants to pay for his daughter to go to college and then find that she is
    being harassed by males on campus -- or name-calling by males on campus. That's not PC --
    that's hate speech -- harassment.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    grey --

    It used to be that most women were flattered by flirtatious banter.
    On the whole they were well able to handle this kind of situation


    You're comparing some male forcing a female to watch him masturbate and ejaculate
    with flirting?

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Are you done?

    Thank you for the amateur "psyche evaluation," Curious77... you don't know me from a bar of soap!

    Please take your "enthusiastic" man-hating prejudice elsewhere.

    (And then ask yourself, "Are you part of the solution, or part of the problem"?.
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 28th February 2018 at 10:15.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    grey --

    I'm sure you see Yahoo every day -- and some daily news ...
    How many days go by without you seeing the murder of a female by some male
    in her life?

    If you're honest about it, you know that our patriarchal societies are filled with
    atrocious male violence and that this has always been true.

    And that women do NOT have even Constitutional Equality here in the US ....
    that our patriarchal societies underpinned by Organized patriarchal religion have
    smothered our societies in violence, especially in a war on women.

    Rape is a tool of war as confirmed by the United Nations --
    and it is applied to males and females in times in war -- but females are of course
    the majority of the victims.

    This is also true of our most common crime against children/youth which is INCEST by
    adult males -- grandfathers, fathers, uncles, male cousins -- and male friends of the family.

    It's just the opposite of what the delusional and corrupt FREUD put forth in his outrageous
    "Oedipus Complex" where he suggested that it is infants, toddlers and young children who are
    the sexual aggressors against adult males in their families. He betrayed the young males and
    females who had confided in him their abuse by male family members.

    Freud is being exposed today for the dishonesty of his work -- and also as likely being a
    generational pedophile.

    Since the 1970's and maybe earlier -- studies have made clear that MALES are our sexual
    abusers of children -- and that they are HETEROSEXUAL males who are 100X MORE likely to
    sexually abuse a child than a homosexual male would be.

    Males are also our serial killers.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Earth --

    As the revelations have continued to roll in -- including the self-confession by Trump as to his
    sexual aggressiveness towards beautiful women where he can barely control himself according
    to his own story -- "grabbing them by the pussy" -- very much hope that you are seeing that
    these stories need to be told and that men have to be held accountable for their behavior.

    In fact, the women who came forward to tell their stories -- like Prof. Anita Hill -- have been
    nothing but slandered and smeared. Still true right now.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Spiral --

    Actually it is VIOLENCE in "entertainment" -- especially the torture of women -- which
    seems to be moving it. "Every Day" is a movie with Helen Hunt and Live Schrieber
    which very strongly points to the bullying of writers/authors to create scenes ever more
    gross than the last, filled with violence.

    That was already obvious, of course.

    Can't disagree with you re the Clinton's ... however consider their long relationship with the CIA....
    and the pattern of sexual abuse of children made clear by the Johnny Gosch kidnapping ...
    where the Mother had to do the investigating which the Police weren't doing ...

    Years later, she found that her husband had OK'd the kidnapping of their son for the CIA.
    See CIA's MKULTRA

    What I'm saying to you is that both Hillary and Bill fit the pattern as to family background
    and grooming. Our CIA has been responsible for many evils including against children.
    MKULTRA is a Mind Control Program. Originally carried out by Nazis in the concentration camps.

    These aren't very pleasant things to think about -- but if you look into it you will see the reality
    of it -- including CIA's Mockingbird, Project Paperclip and Gladio.

    Those were programs which were being drafted two years before the end of WWII -- we defeated
    Germany, but not fascism. And which explain the rise of the right wing and where we are today.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Wind -

    However, with this third wave feminism I'm seeing this victimization trend and if you're against it then you will be nailed to the cross.

    Agree with most of your post --

    but this isn't a "TREND" ... this is a tens of thousands of years of oppression of females which
    is still going on ... led by Elite-patriarchy which also is abusive to the average male.

    The stories are beginning to be told --

    If Global Warming doesn't take us first, this will be the unraveling of patriarchy.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Cinder --

    What Damon was essentially suggesting is that for every male accused of rape in a Court room
    by a woman ... ALL of the men who didn't rape her should be acknowledged.

    We actually had that happen during the RIGGED Senate Hearings for Clarence Thomas where it
    was Prof. Anita Hill who was "witch hunted" by the GOP with a nod from Biden.

    About a dozen women from the EEOC were marched in to testify at the hearings that they were
    NOT sexually harassed by Clarence Thomas.

    However, more than a dozen women who would have told their stories of witnessing Clarence
    Thomas sexually harass and make sexual comments to women at the EEOC -- and who had
    themselves experienced sexual harassment by him were NEVER heard.

    Joe Biden had promised Prof. Anita Hill's legal team that they would be permitted to testify.
    But in complete betrayal Joe Biden closed the hearings at 4 am without calling the waiting
    witnesses. He had spent the previous 4 hours in pleasant bantering with an AA male who
    was obviously there to suggest that Prof. Anita Hill had been pursuing him, whereas by the
    end of the four hours, the young man could not recall whether he had called Prof. Hill or
    whether she had called him -- but his testimony was based on ONE phone call.

    Thus, we now have a pervert on our Supreme Court.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    lilac -

    Sexual abuse of children and the sexual abuse and oppression of females are all
    part of the same story.

    Women who are oppressed in patriarchal societies cannot protect their own children
    from sexual abuse/INCEST and Pedophilia.

    Since at least the 1970's studies have shown that MALES are our sexual abusers of children
    and that they are heterosexual males.

    Heterosexual males are 100X MORE likely to sexually abuse a child than a homosexual male
    would be....

    Here's one of the studies....

    "Focus on the Facts" -- Sean Cahill, PH.D


    Quote A 1998 Study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are heterosexual.


    Research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are less likely than heterosexual to sexually abuse children.


    Perhaps the most egregious and damaging claim promulgated by anti-gay groups is the claim that homosexuality is intrinsically linked to pedophilia and child sexual abuse. The social science research on sexual orientation and child sexual abuse clearly disproves the claim that homosexuals are more likely to molest children.




    A 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are heterosexual. One researcher explained this statistic by noting, "Gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults. In fact, research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are LESS likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children. Two studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1% in one study and 0% in the other were lesbian or gay. One psychologist reviewed the existing social science literature on the relationship between sexuality and child sexual abuse and found that "a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children." Further, "cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent."

    Gay rights activists, like all advocates for children's welfare, oppose child sexual abuse and support equitable age of consent laws that help prevent and punish such abuse.




    At least 110,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the US. Approximately 588,00 children are currently in foster care. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.




    Children who remain in foster care for much of their childhood, as do tens of thousands of American children, are more likely to have emotional problems. Some children in foster care live in 20 or more homes by the time they reach the age of 18. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting is not simply unjust and unethical; it also decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.




    Research shows that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are not disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers raised by heterosexual parents.

    Footnote 65 -- p.123

    Quote A review of 352 medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse during a 12-month period at a Denver children's hospital found that less than 1% had been abused by a gay man or a lesbian. Of 269 adult perpetrators of child abuse identified among the 352 cases of abuse, only two were gay or lesbian. The vast majority of the children in the study (82%) "were suspected of being abused by a man or a woman who was, or had been, in a heterosexual relationship with a relative of the child." And the review concluded that in this sample, " a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100X greater [than the risk of being molested] by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual."




    Jenny, C., and Roesler, T.A. (1994)




    Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics. 94(1).p.44.

    In an earlier study of convicted male child molesters in Massachusetts, none of the 175 men were found to have an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation or to be primarily attracted to other adult men.




    Groth, A.N., and Birnbaum, H.J. (1978).


    Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.





    Archives of Sexual Behavior.7(3).pp.175-181.





    Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."


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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Quote Posted by Curious77 (here)
    Jayke --...

    ...I'm not familiar with Phyllis Chyslers' work -- and in fact the only mention of her was what I found on Amazon about the book.
    Couldn't immediately pull up anything on her on Yahoo...

    ...Phyllis Chyslers isn't a feminist activist ... she is a profession anti-feminist.

    But against the reality of the oppression and violence against women over tens of thousands of years, what she is writing
    is meaningless as women raise their own consciousness and they have long been doing just that.
    You should try Google instead, Yahoo isn't a great resource for meaningful research, it tends to bring back superficial results. A quick google search would help you realise that Phyllis Chesler started out as a radical 2nd wave feminist, fighting the good fight for you women in shaming the elite patriarchy...until she realised that most of the hate and misery she was receiving wasn't from men at all but from other women, hence she turned her back on the feminist movement and saw it for what it was. "Women's inhumanity to women".

    In no way am I absolving men from their crimes by the way. In your fervent man-hating you seem to be neglecting the point I made about how both men and women need to be held to a higher standard of character development. All those problems of the 'Elite Patriarchy' as you describe it, arise as a function of low character people gaining power and becoming the leaders of society, things need to change.

    Anyway, a brief intro to Phyllis Chesler for those who don't use google.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylli...r#Psychologist
    Quote Chesler is considered a radical feminist and a second wave feminist leader.
    In 1969, she cofounded the Association for Women in Psychology.[14] In 1972, she published Women and Madness, whose thesis is "that double standards of mental health and illness exist and that women are often punitively labeled as a function of gender, race, class, or sexual preference". The book sold more than 3 million copies worldwide.[15] The book received a front page New York Times review by Adrienne Rich, who described it as "intense, rapid, brilliant, controversial ... a pioneer contribution to the feminization of psychiatric thinking and practice".[16]

    Chesler has been consulted by lawyers, psychologists and psychiatrists on diverse subjects including sex between patient and therapist, rape, incest, domestic violence, custody, honor killings, and the mistreatment of women in jails and in psychiatric institutions.[17] In 1997, she taught a course in Forensic Psychology at John Jay College.[18] In 1997, she was the sole expert witness in a class action lawsuit in Nebraska on behalf of female psychiatric patients who had been sexually, physically, medically, and psychologically abused.[19] In 1998, she taught a course in Advanced Psychology and Women's Studies at Brandeis University.[18] From 2008–2012, Chesler submitted courtroom affidavits in cases where girls and women have fled being honor killed and applied for asylum in America.
    To bring a more balanced perspective Curious77, Michael Tsarion did an excellent 8 hour presentation called "The Female Illuminati", showing that a lot of what you see in the elite patriarchy, a lot of the symbolism and freemasonic clothing etc is actually derived and pays homage to an even more ancient elite matriarchy. Who, when they were in charge, could be just as depraved, vicious, violent as the men you see today. Tsarion describes the Elite Matriarchy as being composed of two main groups: the Sophic i.e. those who idealised true beauty and feminine wisdom; versus the sophianic (named after the satanic) because this second group pretended to be wise leaders when actually they were just depraved and did things like sacrificing new born babies to their gods, indulged in sexual orgies or engaged in male genital mutilation (i.e. castration of their man servants).

    "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" as the saying goes, and thats true for both men and women. Most men certainly need to up their game and grow in character for sure, but I'd also like to see more women embrace the sophic ideals of truth, beauty, harmony and wisdom (as many of the women on this forum already do). Society may still be in the grips of psychopaths but the uprising of consciousness has to start with each and every one of us. Creating divisions by slandering one sex while remaining blind to the crimes and shortcomings of your own isn't going to create a just and fair society. It'll only create a new sophianic elite matriarchy that are as bad as the depraved men they worked so hard to knock off their thrones.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Cider --

    The public's knowledge of human trafficking of children isn't what it should be.
    They are difficult stories to absorb -- and sometimes it takes quite a while to
    be able to handle them.

    CIA MKULTRA was a mind control program involving children who were used as
    drug runners, for homosexual prostitution, and for spying/espionage for blackmail
    and who were offered to pedophiles and groomed to serve them.
    And all of this was funded by our government -- Congress.

    You can't force people to look into these stories, but human trafficking in adult females
    and young males -- and in young children continues to increase.

    According to Ret. Detective Rothstein in an interview with Jim Fetzer -- at the very last
    bit of the video on YouTube he comments on the lack of interest on the part of our press
    in the fact that our military is also involved in this trafficking.

    Also see Kay Griggs/YouTube in regard to corruption of our military.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Quote Posted by Curious77 (here)
    Mike -- I gave you a "thanks" for your post ... but re this ...

    And now it's all the way down to 'so n so grabbed my butt 40 years ago'.

    Think that kind of stuff purposefully gets tossed in to try to make the issue begin to sound silly.

    But also, keep in mind that we've had a number of MALES who are saying "he grabbed my butt" ....
    or he grabbed my genitals.

    And, I think every male here has to BEGIN to try to understand the after-effects of this kind of
    sexual abuse/harassment of males as well. Because it happens to males as young children, as well.
    And it happens to males when they're POW's, though rarely mentioned.

    But these kinds of attacks do have long-lasting results as many males have explained ... and I hope
    that males here will continue to follow these stories as I have a feeling we are only beginning to hear
    the truth of it all.

    Point(s) taken! And thanks for all your thoughtful posts.

    I started out with the intent of trying to find a space that was appropriately sympathetic to the women in this travesty but was also critical of what I view as the unreasonable elements of the #metoo movement. A tricky thing to do.

    I never expected that balance to be perfect all the time

    After Damon was criticized so heavily for what I feel are perfectly reasonable comments, I felt the balance was off and I attempted to correct that in my own small way.

    See, I just picked a point in this fiasco and began from there. But yes, I could have gone back and picked any point in history that demonstrated how and why we've gotten to this point, and regardless of when that was it would certainly have to do with the dominant male patriarchy. You'll get no argument from me there!

    This is a very layered and nuanced and highly triggerable topic. While we're picking apart those layers, people are bound to get emotional...and that's very okay! I was emotional when I started it. I even expected it to become sort of a battlefield at times, but I've been pleasantly surprised that it hasn't. Please lets keep it that way guys. Thanks!
    Last edited by Mike; 28th February 2018 at 16:32.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Mike --

    You might have also read some of my comments about other consequences of the oppression
    of women which prevents them from protecting children from sexual abuse by males.
    This is. like overall male violence in our societies, another subject which our free press ignores
    and where it has been left to survivors to fight their way through via their own organizing and
    defense -- again, because children have rarely been listened to in regard to sexual abuse which
    means that many of these cases are 15-20-30 years old before we even begin to hear about
    them.

    I'd also draw awareness here to the Victorian Era in Great Britain when 12 year old girls were
    on the streets selling their bodies because there was so little protection for children and poor
    families at that time.

    Our "Robber Baron Era" in the US shows us the same thing with young children laboring and
    being sexually abused in American factories, along with young girls and adult women.

    Thank you for your reply -- and I will continue to read your posts and hope that you will read mine.

    But I think the story of Prof. Anita Hill's experience with a rigged Supreme Court decades ago makes
    clear that we really need to listen to women. Because Biden rigged the hearings for Clarence Trump
    we now have a pervert on the Supreme Court.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...93#post1210993

    I think it's also important to keep in mind that for thousands and thousands of years, females have
    essentially run a non-violent campaign in every aspect to not only regain their rights to their own
    children, their rights to inheritance and to own property which went into the 1960's here .... but to
    fight back against the vile "Christian" propaganda by the Vatican which continues to
    label them as "inferior" to males, which spread intolerance and hatred for them and
    encouraged violence against them ... much as the Church did in regard to Jews and Homosexuals, as well.

    THAT struggle continues on as well with the US government where the ERA is still held hostage and
    females here still do not have true equality under our Constitution.

    And we need males as well to turn out to fight for female equality in what I hope will soon be passionate
    support for female equality.

    As has been noted before, Avalon has an imbalance of males versus females and sadly I've come
    to be aware that it has discouraged females here from staying and posting. I think we need to
    change that and to be more encouraging of females to post here.
    They, too, can become contributors to our common knowledge -- and financial $$$ contributors
    to the website.
    Last edited by Curious77; 3rd March 2018 at 08:01.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Kiwi --

    There is no psychoanalyzing of you in my reply ...

    nor would I care to "know you" based on your original post or your reply.

    Again, you are in denial of history where Our Founders actually created an Elite-Patriarchy ...
    and which is underpinned by organized patriarchal religions/male supremacist religions.

    Evidently, giving recognition to the oppression of women is "enthusiastic man-hating prejudice"
    which only amounts to more attempts at insult and name-calling ... not debate on the issue.

    As I was pointing out in my reply to you ... YOUR attitude of close-mindedness is part of the problem.

    And, again, there is a definite problem mounting here where we need the site to encourage more FEMALES to post here.

    Females are able contributors on all websites.

    And they are also able financial contributors $$$$$$$ on all websites.


    Quote You're in total denial of the long history of male violence against women -- and the continuing violence
    against them currently which continues their oppression.

    PC is an invention of the right wing to try to disavow hate speech against women -- the stuff called to
    them on our American streets -- and on campuses.

    I don't know any male who wants to pay for his daughter to go to college and then find that she is
    being harassed by males on campus -- or name-calling by males on campus. That's not PC --
    that's hate speech -- harassment.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Jayke --

    I did try google and then back to Yahoo and became more familiar with Phyllis Chesler but hasn't helped much.

    My apologies if I'm the one who screwed up her name -- obviously, hard to find someone when you have the name wrong.

    From this ...

    Quote fighting the good fight for you women in shaming the elite patriarchy...until she realised that most of the hate and misery she was receiving wasn't from men at all but from other women, hence she turned her back on the feminist movement and saw it for what it was. "Women's inhumanity to women".
    is seems clear that YOU think that feminism is about "shaming the elite patriarchy" ...

    but WHY would you object to bringing the wrongs of Elite-Patriarchy and its very existence into discussion?

    Elite-Patriarchy is actually no friend either to average males. Nor as we can see from our male-dominated
    "Christian" Congress and their endless "illegal wars of aggression" all over the world - their attacks on the poor, the homeless, the sick and disabled among us, are they any friend to democracy, freedom or social justice.

    But to finish up with that Chesler quote ....

    Quote until she realised that most of the hate and misery she was receiving wasn't from men at all but from other women, hence she turned her back on the feminist movement and saw it for what it was. "Women's inhumanity to women".
    as many others have pointed out, this is blaming women for their own oppression.

    And as I have mentioned elsewhere I see nothing but women involved in their own consciousness raising and in reality this is a subject constantly brought up in regard to women being critical of other women on petty issues -- and it's a very current subject right now among women.

    Also find it very worrisome to see Chesler seemingly trying to encourage women to be physical "warriors" rather than to continue on in non-violent campaigns?
    I can't think of anything that would be any more harmful over all than that.


    Your claim to not be ignoring what you call "the crimes of males" isn't very convincing when you suggest that my acknowledging those wrongdoings is what you describe as my "fervent man-hating."

    I think the best definition of feminism is by Marilyn French: "Anti-domination of anyone by anyone else."

    Following that thought, one of the comments about Chesler I came across certainly applies to that concept: "I’m just a feminist who believes that feminism is—or should be—incompatible with any kind of racism, prejudice or hatred. For this reason alone, I find it hard to believe that Chesler is a true feminist."


    Re "Women and Madness" ... Psychiatry has played a shameful role overall in our societies and I think "Madness on the Couch" which recites the many insane and violent ways that psychiatry "treated" the illness (including piercing the eyeballs of disturbed patients with ice picks) deserves only to be condemned by everyone.
    But most especially when we come to the reality that husbands could at one time simply have their wives condemned to asylums on their own word.

    I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY HERE KNOW THIS .... but there are interesting links today between Autism and Schizophrenia which are basically damage to the brain.
    These are not genetic diseases, they are diseases where damage to the genes is evident: In the case of Autism that damage results in an under-pruning of the synapses -- and in the case of Schizophrenia there is an over-pruning of the synapses.

    By all evidence, Autism continues to be linked to Vaccines and the many harmful ingredients being injected still into the bodies of newborns. Granted, Schizophrenia
    is a disease older than vaccines, but men have been digging up metals from the earth since time began.

    We have widespread peanut allergies among children and, in fact, Big Pharma used peanut oils in their vaccines. We have Asthma among children increasing as well as a newer disease "juvenile arthritis," both of which are auto-immune diseases being linked to vaccines.

    These vaccines are also now being found to be linked to the long time mystery of "Sudden Infant Death Syndrome" and nurses continue to relate stories of watching newborns die immediately after having a vaccine injected.

    Other long time intestinal problems such as colic and projectile spitting further testify to the many intestinal disturbances connected to Autism, such as bowel dysfunction where Dr. Wakefield actually found remnants of the MMR/Measles vaccine in the guts of children. And, especially where those early childhood disturbances might be linked to future problems with hyper activity in children, with dyslexia, and with attention deficit.

    Coming back to women, we continue to see that Big Pharma's drugs continue to be tested on males making them largely unsuitable for females, and increasing the possibility of negative effects on women.

    I think that Betty Friedan was much more helpful in regard to psychiatry in disconnecting women's apron strings from Freud and dumping him in the garbage can. Today, Sigmund Freud is actually under suspicion as a generational pedophile and his work seriously under question. Most especially Freud's "Oedipus Complex" which made the outrageous suggestion that it is infants, toddlers and young children who are the sexual aggressors against adult males in their families.
    This was an outright betrayal of the young patients of Freud's -- both male and female -- who had confided in him their sexual abuse by grandfathers, fathers, uncles, male cousins in their families, as well as male friends of the family.

    As for this paragraph which ends in your suggestion ...

    "of a cruel ancient elite matriarchy who when they were in charge could be just as depraved, vicious, violent as the men you see today. Tsarion describes the Elite Matriarchy as being composed of two main groups: the Sophic i.e. those who idealised true beauty and feminine wisdom; versus the sophianic (named after the satanic) because this second group pretended to be wise leaders when actually they were just depraved and did things like sacrificing new born babies to their gods, indulged in sexual orgies or engaged in male genital mutilation (i.e. castration of their man servants)."

    If you simply begin with Lilith who was the first wife of Adam and who recognized her own creation as being equal to Adam's, you will find her buried in layer after layer of vile propaganda almost impossible to get through. She is the divorced wife of Adam, who later befriended and helped Eve. Nothing you read about her is true. This is once again the power of Elites to label others and to project their own crimes and vileness onto them.

    Another example of this is the story of Elizabeth Bathory -- Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed -- and the claims against her.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_B%C3%A1thory

    Quote Although it is commonly believed that Báthory was caught in the act of torture, there is little evidence to support this. Initially, Thurzó made the declaration to Báthory's guests and village people that he had caught her red-handed. However, she was arrested and detained prior to the discovery or presentation of the victims. It seems most likely that the whole idea of Thurzó discovering Báthory covered in blood has been the embellishment of fictionalized accounts.[24]
    I didn't have time to completely go over her story, but you'll find other articles which make clear that she herself had been tortured earlier in her life.

    Mary Magdalene is another victim of patriarchal propaganda where she was more likely the wife of Jesus -- and Jesus' "Disciple to the Disciples." Not a whore as she has long time been portrayed.

    Additionally, as the Old Testament was written to cement patriarchy, Mary & Joseph's histories were switched. Mary had the higher status, but her family's lineage was transferred to Joseph.

    And, of course, actually reading the vile propaganda against women in the "Hammer of Witches" by the RCC.

    Throughout all history, we see the lies of "white male propaganda" written as history. Still today, it's difficult to find the story of Rosalind Franklin whose work on DNA was likely the basis for the discovery, yet she remains unacknowledged.

    Quote Franklin’s co-worker, Maurice Wilkins, secretly showed her photos to American scientist James Watson. He and Francis Crick, his British research partner, were trying to build a DNA model. When Watson saw the photographs, he realized that DNA is a double-stranded helix and the two were able to complete the model.

    In 1962, Crick, Watson, and Wilkins received the Nobel Prize in Medicine. It was four years after Franklin had died from cancer, at the age of 37. The award is given only to people who are alive.

    During the ceremony, no credit was given to Franklin. And Watson has largely dismissed her role. But Crick, who died in 2004, has said Franklin was only “two steps away” from solving the DNA puzzle.
    https://www.voanews.com/a/franklins-...74/165204.html

    And not only those examples, but we can still see the vile propaganda written against the native people here who were labeled as "pagans .. only fit to be fed to the dogs" by Columbus and the "Christianity" he brought here along with the Papal Edicts to "enslave or kill" the native people here and the Africans enslaved here.
    After soaking the soil of Europe with blood in their Crusades, Inquisitions and Burning at the Stake ... those same insanities were brought here and used against the native and African.


    I'd also remind you that SATAN and DEMONS and DEVIL are the inventions of organized patriarchal religions which came thousands and thousands of years after the Old World Religions based in Nature. There was no Satan, nor Devil in those Old World Religions. That is not to say that the violence done by those claiming to be acting for Satan are not involved with real violence -- they are. But this is simply once again only the work of organized patriarchal religions.

    We are learning now something more about the Templars which seems to suggest that they had a long relationship with the Freemasons and a strong need for their professional skills as surveyors and engineers. Let's also not forget that the violent among us generally will overtake and co-opt organizations as humans have yet not found any answer to this violence among the few. Difficult to tell at times who is the originator and who is successor by violence.

    Power does corrupt as we see just from these last few hundred years where our economy became based in capitalism, an invention of the Catholic Church when Feudalism was no longer sufficient to run their Papal States. The Catholic Church also underpins Elite patriarchy and expanded their powers to exploit Nature with the gift of the licenses of "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature."
    That license not only permitted them to exploit Nature, but other humans as well according to various myths of "inferiority."

    We actually need an acknowledgement here of male violence and the truth of the scale of that male violence. It can no longer be ignored or avoided.

    You're also suggesting that women are NOT truthful, don't know the beauty of Nature, and are not in harmony with others or Nature, and are absent of wisdom.

    And I will say to you again -- I see no violence there -- and it is male violence that we need to address which is so harmful to truth, to beauty/Nature, Harmony and against all wisdom.

    There is no evidence of an "Elite-matriarchy" . . .
    True, we are seeing the rising of the Goddess theories once again -- the Templars were said to have worshipped a female Goddess -- Tinit -- but this was a time of both gods and goddesses.

    There is every evidence that in sane judgment and wisdom many societies were female-centered for their life-giving abilities.

    Studies of male behavior are NOT "slandering" of the male gender. They are scientific fact.

    Let's also recall that in a few short hundred years, Elite-patriarchy has brought this planet to the brink of extinction with Global Warming. It is Elite-Patriarchy and it's "Christianity"/male-dominated religions which have done that.


    Also think it's necessary to point out in these discussions of Elite-Patriarchy that the average male here is NOT of Elite-patriarchy and that they themselves are abused under that political system, just as females and children are abused under it.






    *************************

    From what I can gather, Chesler is the kind of feminist who blames the victim. One of her books, Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman, more or less says that women are just naturally competitive with other women, resulting in back-stabbing and general meanness. There is no recognition that women are socialized to be competitive by a patriarchal society that encourages them to stake their identities on the men they can “catch.” (Full disclosure: I haven’t read the book, just this USA Today interview with Chesler about it, so I realize I may be misrepresenting her views.)

    Yes, I know I’m dangerously close to saying that there is only one way to be a feminist or that there is a set platform all feminists have to espouse (pro-abortion, anti-pornography, pro-gay rights, etc.). Although, like all people, I am more comfortable with people who have the same views I do, I recognize that we all have our own versions of feminism, just as we all have our own versions of religion. For instance, Sarah Palin calls herself a pro-life feminist...

    Some feminists are supportive of pornography and sex work. Many women who hold feminist views don’t identify with the feminist movement because they feel that it is too upper-class and white.
    Last edited by Curious77; 3rd March 2018 at 11:09.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Quote From what I can gather, Chesler is the kind of feminist who blames the victim. One of her books, Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman, more or less says that women are just naturally competitive with other women, resulting in back-stabbing and general meanness. There is no recognition that women are socialized to be competitive by a patriarchal society that encourages them to stake their identities on the men they can “catch.” (Full disclosure: I haven’t read the book, just this USA Today interview with Chesler about it, so I realize I may be misrepresenting her views.)
    She may not explicitly state that women are socialized to be competitive by a patriarchal society that encourages them to stake their identities on the men they can “catch”...And my guess is that she doesn’t state it explicitly because she knows it to be an inaccurate assessment of how social dynamics genuinely operate.

    She does however compare that tendency of women in modern society to the social structures found in the primate world; where baboons and other hominid species exhibit the exact same, self-serving, competetitive, violent and aggressive behaviours (including infanticide—where a female ape will kidnap, rip-to-shreds and cannibalise the child of a competitor female ape—in an attempt to destroy the soul of that competitor, enabling them to move in and steal the attentions of the alpha males). And in Cheslers comparisons, it becomes evident that humans aren’t that much more evolved than primates when it comes to social hierarchies and social structures. We’re still basically just intelligent apes.

    I don’t know how many times I need to say it before it registers so I’ll say it again. My stance is not that we should ignore the crimes committed by men and women. My stance is that the issue with inequality in society is not with an elite patriarchy that conditions women and the world to be subservient to them. The issue is with a lack of character development within both genders.

    We’re currently led by unethical people who are driven by their animalistic, baboon-like nature’s; people who are dominated by ego, greed and lust for power I.e. psychopaths and sociopaths (and yes there are plenty of unethical women who exhibit these behaviours as well)

    My stance is that a renaissance of character development within both men and women will put an end to the injustice that you deem to be toxic in today’s current leadership, leading to a fairer and more just society overall.

    You should really read Cheslers book for yourself though. I’m sure you’ll find it a lot more enlightening, life-affirming and empowering than the elite patriarchy and their “white male propoganda” experts at USA Today would have you believe.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    This was orchestrated to further divide, and alienate men and women, they're attempting to abolish healthy relations between men and women.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Quote Posted by Merlinus (here)
    This was orchestrated to further divide, and alienate men and women, they're attempting to abolish healthy relations between men and women.

    Yep, you nailed it there. I don't know if it was started as some diabolical plan, but it's certainly being exploited now.

    Welcome to the forum

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    Jayke --

    Actually, I think I've done a fairly good job of looking into Chesler and will stand by my conclusion here ....

    [QUOTE=Jayke;1211679]
    Quote From what I can gather, Chesler is the kind of feminist who blames the victim. One of her books, Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman, more or less says that women are just naturally competitive with other women, resulting in back-stabbing and general meanness. There is no recognition that women are socialized to be competitive by a patriarchal society that encourages them to stake their identities on the men they can “catch.” (Full disclosure: I haven’t read the book, just this USA Today interview with Chesler about it, so I realize I may be misrepresenting her views.)
    This is a professional anti-feminist who has actually written that Feminism is dead -- over.


    "I don’t know how many times I need to say it before it registers so I’ll say it again. My stance is not that we should ignore the crimes committed by men and women. My stance is that the issue with inequality in society is not with an elite patriarchy that conditions women and the world to be subservient to them. The issue is with a lack of character development within both genders."

    I see that you think that I am ignoring the point you are trying to make. However, I've also tried to make clear to you (I believe) that Elite-Patriarchy isn't just some idle bit of business by Elites. Rather Elite-Patriarchy is a system -- a POLITICAL SYSTEM -- just as much as Colonialism was and the oppression are similarly carried out. In order for you to suggest that Elite-Patriarchy doesn't have not control over our societies and has long held that control, you also have to believe that Colonialism didn't effect and control the minds and hearts of those it ruled. Of course it did. And, so too .. of course Patriarchy controls our societies and has oppressed and persecuted women over tens of thousands of years. Again, Elite-Patriarchy is as much a POLITCAL SYSTEM as Colonialism was.


    While I do agree that about 3% of every group of people -- including women -- are
    unethical, criminal sociopaths, willing to do violence to others and to the planet to get what they want.

    However, this is a liberal nation which we have long known -
    See: Noam Chomsky who frequently speaks on this subject.

    This is why they have had to control the nation's free press and all media ...
    any bit of truth which gets out is like a rock hitting a sheet of glass; it shatters
    their myths based in their right wing propaganda.

    Certainly the response to Bernie Sanders was overwhelming and had we not had a corrupt Dem Party and DNC, had he gotten the nomination he would have been president.

    Both of our political parties are owned by the same Elites/wealthy and large corporations -- Koch Bros./John Birch Society. Koch Family has been trying to overturn democracy in US for more than 100 years. Our elections are under the control of corporations -- they are rigged from the hack-able electronic computers Americans have been voting on for more than 50 years to the large computers used by MSM which came in about 1965 and which gave us 2000. The large computers gave MSM new powers to call "winners and losers" based in 1% or even 0% of the vote. Prior to that time, they could only call elections based on actual votes tallied.
    There is now finally a movement going forward to return to paper ballots and permanent records of votes which put the election "on record" and make it certifiable.

    Perhaps you are a parent? Would you not want to be aware of who our child abusers of children actually are? I really think parents need to know that MALES are our sexual abusers of children and that they are HETEROSEXUAL males who are 100X more likely to sexually abuse a child than a heterosexual male would be ... according to studies which were carried out by the 1970's.


    Above "character development" ... I think preventing corruption of government and criminal takeover of government -- the damage to children by sexual abuse at early ages is more urgently important.

    The immense amount of male violence in our societies goes without discussion year after year.

    The only way to reach a fairer society is to overturn the POLITCAL system of Elite-Patriarchy -- which, btw, Our Founders put in place.

    Actually, I find it difficult to believe that YOU and Chesler could both miss the fact that Elite-Patriarchy is a POLITICAL SYSTEM deeply embedded in our societies and which continues in control of our lives.

    And while you are saying that you don't think that crime should be ignored, you have only to look at the daily news articles to find that the overabundance of crime is committed by males -- especially violent crime.

    I fully understand the points that you are trying to make -- but again, it's difficult to believe that you don't understand Patriarchy as a POLITICAL system just as Colonialism was.

    Thank you for the reply --


    PS:
    See: Votescam -- The Stealing of America
    http://www.votescam.org/
    Last edited by Curious77; 13th March 2018 at 07:54.

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    Default Re: Matt Damon Makes Some Very Reasonable Comments About Sexual Harassment...

    So are you telling me Feminism is a new political system? A political system that could (and should) replace the elite patriarchy?...and once feminism gains political power, then all abuse on children will suddenly stop?

    Besides your political activism in preaching how dangerous men are, what else are you doing to ensure the safety of children within today’s society and culture?

    And also you seem to have missed the point I made that baboons have similar social structures to humans. Where the female baboons are just as violent as the males. Does female baboon violence on children originate from an evil-baboon-elite patriarchy that have culturally conditioned female baboons to canabalise the offspring of competitor baboons? or was that the result of colonialism as well?

    And no, you really haven’t done a good job of looking into Chesler, not if you still stand by that silly conclusion. Bet you didn’t bother to read her book yet did you?
    Last edited by Jayke; 13th March 2018 at 08:29.

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