What is your stance on the death penalty?

[jagman]

I am writing this thread in part because of the mass shooting in Florida and in part because of all the hate and senseless violence we see in our World today.
A few years ago i wrote a thread on Ted Bundy and
my own views of the death penalty changed. If you
don't know who Ted Bundy was? Do a google search.
I will give you a brief description. He was one worst
serial killers of the 20th century. The movie
( Silence of the Lambs ) was loosely based on him.

Ted was one of first serial killers to show us evil
comes in all walks of life and in all shapes.
Mr. Cruz reminds me of Ted. Both came from
Broken homes, handsome, and a profound
sickness ( evil ) to carry out such hanus crimes.
They both have that same sickness that can be
seen in their eyes!

I worked in a level 5 prison for the criminally insane
for years. My main job has a correctional officer was
to watch and observe and protect staff and inmates.

Most of the men i watched and observed had committed horrible crimes but nothing on the
level that Ted or Cruz committed except for
One. His name was Walter. They caught him
In the 70s driving a cab around Stl.Mo. with
Dismembered body parts of his victims in
his trunk of the cab he drove.

All of the men in my unit were kept heavily
Medicated for obvious reasons! The meds
Worked on most of these men. ( kept them
docile) but not walter! He had the same
Evil sickness that you see in the eyes of Bundy,
Laughner, Holmes, Cruz etc.

Imo, ppl like Cruz should be studied & examined
Not put to death, he does deserve death but there
Is alot to be learned by ppl like him.

[Cidersomerset]

My first response is I am against capital punishment.
I was called for jury service three years ago and sat
on three cases thankfully they were not capitol crimes.
But I did see first hand how it works and the pressures
put on the twelve juror's especially if the case is not
cut and dry without the accused excepting guilt like
Cruz is reported to have done.

If I was a family member or close friend I probably
would want him to pay the ultimate price for his crimes.
This is why most legal systems are supposed to be
neutral and consider all the evidence before conviction
and many mistakes have been made but on the whole
its probably the best way of administering justice in
society to date.

The other problem is in these high profile cases we
cannot be sure if they have been manipulated to do
the crime. Capitol crime in general is rising and if
you broaden it out to Child trafficking/snuff movies,
body parts , Satanism , the mil ind complex's continuing
wars Banksters etc, etc it gets complicated...

Back to the question

What is your stance on the death penalty?

I don't know anymore on Capitol crimes..

[Kano]

Man, this is a tough one. There are good points on both sides of the argument. But if it was my kid who was shot at that school yesterday...well, this vid sums it up.

For me, it is not hard to understand this father's reaction.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_PUE8fYxjq8

[TargeT]

Posted by jagman (here)
I am writing this thread in part because of the mass shooting in Florida and in part because of all the hate and senseless violence we see in our World today.
A few years ago i wrote a thread on Ted Bundy and
my own views of the death penalty changed. If you
don't know who Ted Bundy was? Do a google search.
I will give you a brief description. He was one worst
serial killers of the 20th century. The movie
( Silence of the Lambs ) was loosely based on him.

Ted was one of first serial killers to show us evil
comes in all walks of life and in all shapes.
Mr. Cruz reminds me of Ted.

I think there's a very important pattern that is generally ignored, and in this case should be focused on more than "preventative" post crime punishment.

A Brief History of Psychotropic Drugs Prescribed to Mass Murderers

IIRC there were no SSRI's involved in the bundy case, and I think that makes the comparison almost irrelevant.

[greybeard]

My thoughts are perhaps unorthodox.

It should be voluntary.
The perpetrator should be given the choice.
If I was facing "life " imprisoned and was guilty I would want to end it.
If I was wrongly incarcerated then I would fight to clear my name--that right would be taken away with compulsory death sentence carried out.

Assuming there were volunteers wishing to take the option of the death sentence, then that would save the state a lot of money--life in prison must cost the state a fortune.

There are some people who would recommit the offenses if released--thats the way they are.
One way or another they should never be released.

If the death penalty is to be carried out it should done painlessly.

Ch

[Icare]

I think the death penalty is wrong, in each and every case.
I had a penpal on deathrow for some time and he thinks having been put away into solitary confinement (as that is practically what being on deathrow seems to be, even though he gets to leave his cell for an hour a day unless the prison is on lockdown), gave him a a chance to come to some degree of spiritual awareness. He now spends most of his life in prayer and studying.
Had he been killed already, he would never have had that chance.

[Agape]

I think that prisons are wrong too, really obsolete method to protect the society -as they are- and way to solve nothing . I’d probably treat most criminal cases as mental health cases and send these people to rehab facilities .
Which may sound the same like prison but they would actually offer the possibility of treatment through understanding , such as ethicotherapy, counselling , behavioural therapy, meditation and loving kindness .
It could still mean being guarded and even locked up for those who are dangerous to others but there would be an opportunity for real improvement .

Death penalty solves nothing but in extreme cases if there’s no room for improvement , it may be the more merciful option .

I’d not keep monsters for posterity .

[we-R-one]

I once believed in capital punishment until I 'woke' up. Once I came to understand the premise behind my kundalini experience combined with the knowledge learned via studying reincarnation and NDE experiences my viewpoint has completely changed. Capital punishment is merely supporting the 'eye for an eye' concept. Think about it from an energetic perspective.....all you're doing is pushing negative energy back and forth...someone does something negative and the programmed response is to counter that negative action with a negative action. "You're basically following a programmed meme!

What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results"....

Thanks to Dr. Bruce Lipton and the study of Epigenetics we know that emotions and beliefs vibrate at a frequency. Beliefs create realities! So if you're shoving negative energy back and forth what good does it do? Nothing! And here's something else, reincarnation, NDE's and past life regression strongly suggest this reality isn't what's real, so if it isn't real, what is there to be angry about?

Research also suggests that you're being put into difficult situations by design! The point being to learn to make proper choices, higher vibrational choices. Science tells us that love, compassion and forgiveness vibrate at higher frequencies, which is why they say, if you want to live in love and peace you have to be the love and peace in your heart and choices you make. Science(Heart Math Institute) also tells us your heart is connected to the Aether field, the same 'field' we are all connected to and it's why your choices have an affect on 'the field' which in turn affects your reality.

I've been saying for many years, systems and programs won't change anything, if you want to deal with the problems of the world it's important to change the energetic foundation of the reality, that is how you get to the root of the problem. You change the energetic foundation of a reality by the choices you make involving the emotions of love, compassion and forgiveness. Why am I so sure? Because in my dark night of the soul moment when I was backed into a corner, I stepped outside the box of the eye for an eye mentality and chose to think differently. I accepted both polarities of my situation, the good and the bad and I was grateful, rather than choosing hate and playing the victim card and that is when the Kundalini occurred and that's why I know it's the correct choice as otherwise I woudn't have had the Kundalini! The Kundalini was physical confirmation I made the correct choice! The science is there if one knows where to look....Change the energetic foundation by healing yourself and you heal the world! This is Second Coming, this is what's known as 'The Way'!

“If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”- Nikola Tesla

Is planet Earth on the precipice of a paradigm shift? Is this why it appears mayheim is taking over? I think so.....Why? Because one's tragedies should be perceived as fuel! You need the negative energy to transmute to positive and higher vibrational frequencies! The point being so individuals have the opportunity to make the right choice! You are witnessing their 'dark nights of the soul' moments! Eye for an eye mentality is not transmuting energy it's canceling one another out! Capital Punishment is not the answer it's the definition of insantiy!

The Solution is In Full Swing Are You On Board?

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post594595


Now's the time to go out and make the proper choices, be the path creators you were meant to be! It's a group effort, we are in this together.

[ghostrider]

I am against the death penalty... I follow the cycle of reincarnation, if a person is executed, they don't have the time to understand /evolve from their mistakes in life ... When they reincarnate the unresolved issues in the former life are now carried into the new life and the struggle to overcome evil and understand free will , the law of cause and effect will linger... The new life could have moved up the ladder of evolution and contributing to humanity is hampered... The person will go over and over in circles until they learn the lesson... The seven stages with seven sub-stages takes longer than it should have... It's partly why humanity runs in circles , and why some are driven by the lust for power and might regardless of the epoch they live in ... Every generation has its warmongers, killers, and just plain evil people... Keeping them separate from society offers a chance for them to learn...

[Agape]

But then , if you’re strong believer in reincarnation and conscious of the death and rebirth process don’t you think that it offers justified rebirth to those who seriously failed to appreciate the value of human ( or other) life here ?
For when you so called die , you meet the ‘real judge’ , the most truthful and the most merciful judge , your true Self ...
and get a true advice and option to repair your debts to humanity ?

I’m merely rising that point , not arguing .

Because , I mean forgive my lack of information in that area but what it seems to me is that people kept in prisons for their life time do not get many true options for improvement . And even if they’re let out of prison, having to live with the awareness of killing many innocent people can’t lead to reconciliation in my opinion .

How would someone repay for lives of 17 young kids and their families . I mean , ever.

I used to think like we-are-one . But now I think that death is a rebirth and part of life and since human life is limited and rebirth is necessary in most cases , does it have a role ?
I sound bit cruel to myself tonight , sure, the testimony and motivations should be heard first but I’m sorry if I see some cases of humans acting like rabied dogs so I’d not even subject them to trial and put them to sleep without causing more trauma .Not executed. Put to sleep.


But most of the humanity is not rebirth conscious. So instead we do all the judgement and media attention process in order to feel fair ..?

[Eric J (Viking)]

Throwing this one out for feedback...

Just a thought...how do you know you haven't killed in your previous lives... we're all here for lessons, right?

Viking

[Cardillac]

we all know, as Einstein stated, "you cannot solve a problem on the level it was created";
,
not to mention the concept "two wrongs don't make a right"

but there are some exceptions to some rules- nothing in our lives is easily, exclusively in terms of black and white-

the problem is "justice" is a myth; there is no justice on this planet and courts of law are nothing but sports events where the person on trial is the kicked, thrown, batted ball, the two lawyers are the two teams manipulating the ball and the judge is the referee-

do read David McGowan's incredibly researched, impeccably written, monumental and horrifically shattering (not for the faint of heart) "Programmed To Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder"; then muse again on your views regarding capital punishment (or not)-

be well all-

Larry

[jagman]

Im glad ive gotten so many different perspectives on this subject. I think its important to have these real conversations that aren't framed and setup by the mainstream media. Imo, there is a cancer eating away at our culture World-wide. Part of it might be the drugs,part of it might be social media, part of it might be paranormal, I do know its getting worse.

[Cardillac]

@jagman

"there is a cancer eating away at our culture World-wide. Part of it might be the drugs,part of it might be social media, part of it might be paranormal, I do know its getting worse"

you know it, baby- couldn't agree with you more-

Larry

[East Sun]

It is intended to get worse. We have been told again and again that "they" have plans for us. Why do we forget so quickly.
We know who "they" are. Some of us know them by name.

Order out of chaos. First they create chaos, and have and are still in the process.
Chaos is evident everywhere.

My mantra is to make more people aware..........

[Tam]

Against. It's barbaric and antiquated, in my opinion.

Now, I understand that there are some truly heinous people out there. Child rapists, for example. Lowest of the low. That is the kind of person that, no matter how much I try, I don't think I could ever come to forgive or see with compassion.

That being said, I don't think it's right to essentially murder them, however deserving they may be.

Here are the reasons, in no particular order:

1) Not every death is a clean one.

A lot of US states still practice hanging. Firing squads also exist, and while, if executed (pun not intended) correctly, the death is instant, they aren't always done correctly.

Lethal injection, while the most humane, is not entirely oops-free as well.

I won't even go into sh*t like the electric chair.

2) There have been multiple innocents, falsely accused of a crime, that have been murdered.

This isn't like one or two cases, either. An alarming number of people get killed that were totally innocent. Oftentimes, a lot of people are found to be innocent postmortem. Since 1973, 161 people have been exonerated from Death Row in the US alone (https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocen...-death-penalty). This doesn't count deliberately fudged executions either (fueled by racism, etc.)

Even if it happened just once, in all of history, that is one too many times. How would you like it if it were your husband, or son, that were wrongfully locked away on a crime he didn't commit, then executed? I can't even begin to imagine the pain, both for the victim, and their loved ones.'

3) Execution comes from a place of darkness, a need for revenge, rather than a true sense of justice or, even more fallacious, a deterrent for crime (there is NO evidence of the DP being a deterrent for crime, another point to think about).

Look, I'm having no pretenses here about my own sense of compassion, let alone anyone else's. While I strive to be as unconditionally loving as possible, I know damn well that I would have a very hard time feeling anything other than seething hatred for some of the people out there. Multiple names come to mind, Illuminati/PTB members like the Koch brothers, for instance.

I read an article sometime ago, about a girl my younger sister's age (16) who got gang raped. I'm about to divulge some very graphic details here, so please, if you have a weak stomach, or a past trauma that can be triggered, SKIP THIS BIT. I will write the bad stuff in orange for you and frame it, so you know what to skip.

*********************************************

In a nutshell, the men that had their fun with her were so brutal, that this poor girl not only had a concussion, but both were anus and vagina were torn to the degree that she lost, iirc, a couple of pints of blood, and she had to go into emergency surgery to get them both patched back together into some semblance of what they were before.

In another case, a little girl suffered the same fate.

And in a third, a 23-year old woman did not survive the wounds of the aftermath.

**********************************************

When I read cases like this, I think of my little sister. She is, far and away, the most staggeringly innocent, genuinely altruistic, and kind person I have ever met. She continually shocks me with just how incredible her heart is.

I think of what I would do, if one day, God forbid, it was her we found, in the same state as those poor girls. What I would do, visiting her in the hospital in the week or so that follows. Having to see the other wounds that never heal change her for life. I get emotional just imagining it.

I can't guarantee that I wouldn't track whoever did it to her, consequences be damned, and torture them to death. I've thought about just what I would do to a monster like that, and what my brain imagined would have made me a monster too if I ever did any of them.

So what I'm saying is, I understand, on a superficial level, I'd assume, the need for revenge. The malicious desire to see some people truly suffer, to die.

But that doesn't mean that it should be done. Because evil exists in all of us, and the death penalty puts us just a step closer to the same evil that has consumed some of these apalling, horrible people.

[ghostrider]

Posted by Agape (here)
But then , if you’re strong believer in reincarnation and conscious of the death and rebirth process don’t you think that it offers justified rebirth to those who seriously failed to appreciate the value of human ( or other) life here ?
For when you so called die , you meet the ‘real judge’ , the most truthful and the most merciful judge , your true Self ...
and get a true advice and option to repair your debts to humanity ?

I’m merely rising that point , not arguing .

Because , I mean forgive my lack of information in that area but what it seems to me is that people kept in prisons for their life time do not get many true options for improvement . And even if they’re let out of prison, having to live with the awareness of killing many innocent people can’t lead to reconciliation in my opinion .

How would someone repay for lives of 17 young kids and their families . I mean , ever.

I used to think like we-are-one . But now I think that death is a rebirth and part of life and since human life is limited and rebirth is necessary in most cases , does it have a role ?
I sound bit cruel to myself tonight , sure, the testimony and motivations should be heard first but I’m sorry if I see some cases of humans acting like rabied dogs so I’d not even subject them to trial and put them to sleep without causing more trauma .Not executed. Put to sleep.


But most of the humanity is not rebirth conscious. So instead we do all the judgement and media attention process in order to feel fair ..?

i believe the mechanics of of how it works is different than most ... for me there is no saviors, angels, gods ,supreme being ... your spirit goes into the beyond , your consciousness goes into the over all consciousness block , the essence of your personality goes into the planetary storage banks / akashic records ... whe the new body reaches the 21st day of conception the spirit form reincarnates into the new body and the overall consciousness creates a new material consciousness which now will back connect with the stored impulses from the former life ... everything that wasn't resolved in the former life takes center stage until the lesson is learned ... valuable time is lost in the now life ... this also gives rise to gender identity issues, habits, ocd, idiosyncrasies, nervous ticks deppression, etc ... no one is waiting to take care of me ,is an energy world , an extension of creation ... everything at different levels of vibration/flux /evolution ... not bashing anyone who believes otherwise... i respect the free will of each human being ...

[ZoSo925]

This is really too complicated and complex to answer. The system we live in and environment, we just have the ability to kill one and another.

It's impossible to prevent killing someone off in their mind and the physical form. Regardless of the persons view on death itself, blocking things off is the same thing.

[sunwings]

Does taking somebody´s life extinguish your right to a life? In any case like a school shootings, the butterfly effect is exponential. Divorce, alcoholism, drug abuse, depression and even suicide. The parents and siblings left behind face a lifetime of internal struggles and battles. The victim has it´s journey cut short for no fault of their own.

What if we were to sit down with the families of the 77 victims of the Norway massacre in 2011. Is Anders Behring Breivik´s 21 year sentence enough punishment?

Why do we kill people, who kill people, to show people that killing is wrong?

We could toss this around and around, but the killing doesn´t seem to stop does it!

[snoman]

for a country that has a tad too many religious folk in it, where 'God' is invoked in political addresses.. (that doesn't happen in a lot of
other places)... well, I find it kind of sick that a so-called nation of clingers to 'the Book' should so lazily and reactively support death
as a final solution.

something is very wrong.. in many ways.. and on so many levels over the water