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  1. Link to Post #41
    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gratitude

    I think you're thinking too much into it.

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Firstly I do not believe that God created us to suffer.
    I didn't say so, I said that I am thankful for that God has allowed me to experience suffering. Life is suffering, it is the central part of it. Learning how to deal with it is a central part of life.

    Quote Also is it really necessary to suffer in order to have compassion?
    No, but it helps!

    Quote What if we don't suffer at the current time (or do not notice it) do we then have to recall by memory a time in which we have suffered? But if we have overcome the suffering through understanding, does that not imply our past suffering is an illusion and does not exist? So is it really necessary to know how someone is supposedly feeling, is it not more important to feel good and empowered and thereby help him/her to get out of their suffering by seeing no cause for suffering in them also? Isn't that what love is about?
    That's a good question and a complicated one too. Life is ultimately illusion, but the point is that it feels real. Pain feels real when you experience it and you can tell yourself that it's just illusion. Does it help? Maybe sometimes. We all suffer, more or less. Later or ealier, it's inevitable. We will experience suffering, illness and death. However, it's up to us how we will see and deal with it. I think it's extremely important to be grateful about the suffering too, because it has served as a teacher too. We suffer so that we will understand that we don't have to suffer. Compassion does help when it comes to other people, but you don't have to feel bad for them. You certainly don't have to feel bad for me. I'm just another human.

    Quote Thirdly it's not really possible to be thankful for suffering because it is basically the opposite, we cannot be thankful for something we don't want.
    But how do you know that? I am thankful for all the things that I have experienced, the good and the bad. You can't have a day without a night.

    Thank you for your thoughts on this matter.

    I think Mooji touches on this subject beautifully too.

    Last edited by Wind; 1st March 2018 at 23:31.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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  3. Link to Post #42
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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    I thought that this video would fit in here. I am grateful of such advices.

    Awesome I do enjoy listening to Mooji! I am grateful to you for sharing this Wind!

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I'm grateful for Jimmy Page. I'm grateful for Led Zepplin. I'm grateful for the bad ass harmonica in this song. I'm grateful for testosterone. And i'm grateful to be walking this planet.

    Ha I love this song! It brings me back to high school when I was a young and reckless. I was a fool, but I sure did know how to have fun!! I always get nostalgic whenever I hear Zep or Floyd!! I am grateful to you for reminding me Mike! Rock on!

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)
    When I moved out of my cabin, it seemed best for my cat to stay there in the forest since he had been there all his life. I didn't think I could have a cat where I moved into. That was 4 months ago. I was with him for a week at Christmas because I watched all three pets when the new tenants went on vacation. When I got a call yesterday that they had to move out of state, I knew I had to find a home for my cat. I called one friend and left a message to see if he would take him. But I knew I had to bring him to my house at least temporarily. When I spoke to my roommate, I learned I could keep him here after all. I am so thankful he is here with me now.
    I am so glad that you have your kitty with you! Michelle Marie, I am grateful for your loving presence. Thank you

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  5. Link to Post #43
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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Firstly I do not believe that God created us to suffer.
    Also is it really necessary to suffer in order to have compassion?
    EmEx, you bring up an excellent point that I have thought about myself many times. I would get really angry thinking about all the religions that push the idea of suffering as the key to salvation. How is suffering instructive?, I would wonder. I would think about how so many people are broken by their suffering, devolving into shells of their former selves as they age, wasting away into an oblivion of negativity and confusion. I would think how suffering begets suffering - how so many people who grew up in abusive families then went on to hurt innocent people - family members, friends, complete strangers. Sure, there are the success stories here and there - people who grew up in a crack den and became a successful CEO, things like that. But then, those kinds of people seem to be anomalies, rather than the norm. It seems all the more likely and typical for people to fail to break free from the confines of their own pain and suffering - taking down themselves and others around them in the process.

    So, yes, on the one hand, I completely agree that the very idea of being thankful for suffering seems insane.

    But then, there is another perspective. And this is one that I also choose to draw from. And I suspect that perhaps Wind is using the same perspective. It is that, by giving thanks for our challenges and suffering, we are empowering ourselves. By choosing to give thanks for what has happened to us that was traumatic or painful, we are choosing to use the experience as a means to become a stronger, deeper, wiser person. It does not excuse what happened, nor would I suggest that we all need more suffering in the world. But at the very least, it is a helpful tool in dealing with trauma in a way that maximizes the experiencer's sense of personal empowerment, and frees one from anger and resentment, that can suck the lifeblood out of anybody over time.

    I am grateful to you for adding these thoughts to the thread, and for sparking such a provoking discussion!! Thank you

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    But also, how can a fish be grateful to the medium that sustains and nourishes it, if it never knows anything else exists? "What's this 'ocean' you all keep talking about?" said the inexperienced fish. Without have an "out of water" experience, you cannot be grateful for the ocean, as you know it not. I think it is this contrast Wind was being grateful for -- being grateful for the ability to be grateful, via mechanisms of contrast.

    Of course none of this is required , in support of your point.

    Sorry for the off topic ... er ... I am grateful for interjected perspectives
    I love the fish analogy! What a neat comparison!

    Your gratitude for "interjected perspective" made me laugh! So perfect for this thread, and so right on

    I am grateful for your post, Dedukshyn!

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  9. Link to Post #45
    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Yes, you said it very well Freedom Train. That's where I am coming from. Thank you.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)
    I'm so happy! Im so thankful that I'm happy!
    This says it all. Your happiness and positivity are catching! I am grateful for you, Michelle Marie!

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Thank you for your thoughts on this matter.

    I think Mooji touches on this subject beautifully too.

    Thank you for having such valuable dialogue on this thread! I am grateful for it!

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Today, I am grateful that I had a complete emotional meltdown. It broke down my pride and helped me to realize that I do not always need to do everything alone, and I reached out for help. It was sorely needed, and renewed my soul. The tension in my body has lessened, and my gratitude continues to grow.

    I am grateful that my friend was a brick and helped me in my time of need, with no argument or questions asked. No shaming and no conditions. I am truly blessed.

    I am grateful that my attention to detail led me to realize late last night and this morning that the treatment I employed for my daughter's lice infestation was not completely effective.

    I am grateful that my prior experience and near-fanatic cleaning abilities have aided me in quarantining the continued infection in the home.

    I am grateful that the mother of one of my daughter's friends was so supportive and kind about the lice infestation, and I was even more grateful to hear that none of her family was affected from the sleepover my daughter had at their house the night before we discovered her infestation.

    I am grateful that I learned so much about lice and how to deal with them today. I thought I had a pretty good handle on it from past experiences, but it turns out that there were quite a few things I did not know, and that my method of treatment was less effective and ten times as much work. I feel empowered with this knowledge, and so relieved.

    I am grateful for bowls of hot oatmeal with broccoli, raw onion, sunflower seeds, pepper, sage, and olive oil. And so is my belly.

    I am grateful for PA, and I am grateful to Bill Ryan for being a righteous dude.

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    I am thankfullll and have much gratitude for your post dear Train.

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    I am very grateful for all that you are grateful for today Train.

    Since middle of last December our once very healthy and vibrant cat has fallen seriously ill, and all the specialist veterinarians we have seen have not been able to determine the root cause of his illness. Our cat was given two kinds of antibiotics, antiviral, liquid Prednisone, and many different kinds of natural remedies to boost his immune system to no avail. Due to serious ulcer inflammation that started as a small spot under his tongue has now spread all over his mouth. Two different biopsies have ruled out cancer, but have not pointed to any specific pathogen. My wife has rescued him as a kitten born to a feral mother, inside a storm drain in our back yard over 10 years ago. We have raised him from a bottle and now he is full fledged member of our family who always dines with us for lunch and dinner. Since December part of his tongue has necrotized, so it had to be amputated and he now has to be fed through esophagus-tube inserted into his neck. He has to be helped to the litter twice a day. Each week he continues to lose weight and strength despite being fed at maximum rate recommended by our vet.

    So I am very grateful for everyday that our cat lives.

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    I didn't say so, I said that I am thankful for that God has allowed me to experience suffering. Life is suffering, it is the central part of it. Learning how to deal with it is a central part of life.
    Well you can't really deal with it, because pain is not acceptable to anyone.
    The only reason why it may seem to be so, is because of the fear of more pain, the “lesser” of the evil is chosen, this however, is where we go wrong, if love is true there is no necessity for suffering.
    It is the disbelieve in love that makes it a choice between suffering and suffering.
    It's the believe that pain is a requirement to existence that makes us create our own suffering.

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Compassion does help when it comes to other people, but you don't have to feel bad for them. You certainly don't have to feel bad for me. I'm just another human.
    I am not trying to not feel bad for others (or myself) intellectually (it may happen or not) but I try to gain the understanding that removes the cause for it by seeing us as God has created us, which is all powerful, would that understanding not remove the need to feel sorry for others?


    Quote Posted by EmEx
    Thirdly it's not really possible to be thankful for suffering because it is basically the opposite, we cannot be thankful for something we don't want.
    Quote Posted by Wind
    But how do you know that? I am thankful for all the things that I have experienced, the good and the bad. You can't have a day without a night.
    Yes in the way that DeDukshyn described this makes sense.
    But if one would feel always grateful then could there be anymore suffering?
    So in that sense it is a contradiction to claim gratefulness for suffering, one can have one or the other but not both.

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  22. Link to Post #52
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    Default Re: Gratitude

    It's all about accepting. Accepting that yes, we humans are vulnerable beings. We experience pain and sufffering, accepting that and not resisting it. If we deny or resist something then the more it will persist. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't or couldn't alleviate unnecessary suffering. At one point suffering does come obsolete, but that is the state of grace. Which some people have attained, or should I say there's no person left to claim such thing. It will be a Self-realized being.

    There is no contradiction. Just read The Freedom Train's post.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Gratitude



    Gratitude for this day and the music above full blast in my living room.

    Gratitude for the very nice classical music show I went to with my daughter and her exceptional musician friend who were so gracious and thankful. Note my word: this young friend of my daughter will be internationally renown.

    Gratitude to the financial agent who invited us free of charge.

    My heart is filled.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    This helps put life into perspective.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	thankful.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	61.2 KB
ID:	37283

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Yes, you said it very well Freedom Train. That's where I am coming from. Thank you.
    Thank you Wind! xoxo

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Vernaianawa (here)
    I am thankfullll and have much gratitude for your post dear Train.
    And I am grateful for your gratitude, Vernaianawa. Funny how this gratitude thing is so exponentially reciprocal! Your words of gratitude touch my heart tonight. Thank you

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  30. Link to Post #56
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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by onevoice (here)
    I am very grateful for all that you are grateful for today Train.

    Since middle of last December our once very healthy and vibrant cat has fallen seriously ill, and all the specialist veterinarians we have seen have not been able to determine the root cause of his illness. Our cat was given two kinds of antibiotics, antiviral, liquid Prednisone, and many different kinds of natural remedies to boost his immune system to no avail. Due to serious ulcer inflammation that started as a small spot under his tongue has now spread all over his mouth. Two different biopsies have ruled out cancer, but have not pointed to any specific pathogen. My wife has rescued him as a kitten born to a feral mother, inside a storm drain in our back yard over 10 years ago. We have raised him from a bottle and now he is full fledged member of our family who always dines with us for lunch and dinner. Since December part of his tongue has necrotized, so it had to be amputated and he now has to be fed through esophagus-tube inserted into his neck. He has to be helped to the litter twice a day. Each week he continues to lose weight and strength despite being fed at maximum rate recommended by our vet.

    So I am very grateful for everyday that our cat lives.
    I thank you very much for your appreciation of my gratitudes onevoice!

    I can feel the sadness in your post, and my heart mourns with you for the health of your dear friend.

    I admire and appreciate, and am so very grateful to you for sharing your journey with us, and for your ability to feel gratitude for each day that your friend remains with you. This is such a touching and poignant post!

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  32. Link to Post #57
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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    I didn't say so, I said that I am thankful for that God has allowed me to experience suffering. Life is suffering, it is the central part of it. Learning how to deal with it is a central part of life.
    Well you can't really deal with it, because pain is not acceptable to anyone.
    The only reason why it may seem to be so, is because of the fear of more pain, the “lesser” of the evil is chosen, this however, is where we go wrong, if love is true there is no necessity for suffering.
    It is the disbelieve in love that makes it a choice between suffering and suffering.
    It's the believe that pain is a requirement to existence that makes us create our own suffering.
    I am grateful for your pursuit of the Truth in dialogue here, EmEx! These are all excellent points to consider and discuss!

    I do agree that a belief that suffering is necessary to existence is problematic. I think what Wind was expressing, and what we have presented as additional points for consideration, lies in what we do with what has already happened to us, that which is beyond our control so to speak, such as if somebody chooses to abuse us.

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    But if one would feel always grateful then could there be anymore suffering?
    So in that sense it is a contradiction to claim gratefulness for suffering, one can have one or the other but not both.
    Excellent point, EmEx. I value your contributions to this discussion. What an exciting thread this is turning out to be for me! I am very grateful for the dialogue it has sparked!

    I see that gratitude is, for me, and I suspect for many of us, an exercise. We suffer, then we step back and find ways to feel grateful in order to move on and gain a more empowering perspective on things.

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    It's all about accepting. Accepting that yes, we humans are vulnerable beings. We experience pain and sufffering, accepting that and not resisting it. If we deny or resist something then the more it will persist. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't or couldn't alleviate unnecessary suffering. At one point suffering does come obsolete, but that is the state of grace. Which some people have attained, or should I say there's no person left to claim such thing. It will be a Self-realized being.

    There is no contradiction. Just read The Freedom Train's post.
    Yes, acceptance helps us to alleviate the suffering that we cause ourselves by holding onto feelings, by our own anxieties, fears, and resistance to what is. And this can be applied to the most extreme circumstances. I believe I heard that there were a few people in the Concentration Camps who attained enlightenment in their situations. That has to be the ultimate in acceptance!

    The state of grace is, I feel very strongly, the goal here. I know for sure that is what I would like for myself and for humanity as a whole. My greatest desire is to somehow aid in the collective liberation of humanity from suffering. I have no idea how I would do this, so in the meantime, I am enjoying this Gratitude exercise, as well as stimulating dialogue with friends and family.

    I am grateful for your contributions to this thread, Wind

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)


    Gratitude for this day and the music above full blast in my living room.

    Gratitude for the very nice classical music show I went to with my daughter and her exceptional musician friend who were so gracious and thankful. Note my word: this young friend of my daughter will be internationally renown.

    Gratitude to the financial agent who invited us free of charge.

    My heart is filled.
    Wow! So much powerful and uplifting emotion in your post Flash! I am so grateful for this today! I especially loved the music - I had never heard of this singer before - her music is fantastic!

    I am excited for your daughter and her friend. That sounds fantastic, I wish the best of luck!

    The love you hold for your daughter and for the world shines through. Rock on!

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    This helps put life into perspective.

    Attachment 37283
    So awesome. I am grateful for the alarm going off - phew! That's a good one for me to remember! Lord knows I am NOT a morning person!

    I thank you, Sunwings, for your post.

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    Default Re: Gratitude

    Quote Posted by The Freedom Train (here)

    I thank you very much for your appreciation of my gratitudes onevoice!

    I can feel the sadness in your post, and my heart mourns with you for the health of your dear friend.

    I admire and appreciate, and am so very grateful to you for sharing your journey with us, and for your ability to feel gratitude for each day that your friend remains with you. This is such a touching and poignant post!
    Thank you Train for appreciating my post. I couldn't help but cry as I was posting that, and as I'm now. He's been my best little "buddy" for the last 10 years, and acts more like a dog than a cat. He often would plop down beside my feet if I stand in one spot too long, or if I'm sitting down. We've been through so many different vet clinics over the last few months without answers. We've done everything we could think of. I suppose at some point, we have to accept the situation for what it is. We've come to the realization that God will eventually take him home soon.

    There is a silver lining; one of our friends with special abilities have seen a little girl in our house with the face that looks like our cat. So we're happy that perhaps through this pain, he will graduate as a human being after all.

    And I'm grateful to you Train, for starting this thread.

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    EmEx (3rd March 2018), Flash (5th March 2018), Michelle Marie (4th March 2018), O Donna (4th March 2018), Sstarss (4th March 2018), Wind (3rd March 2018)

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