The Gnostic View of God and Enlightenment - Invitation to discuss/debate

[greybeard]

Posted by Truthster013 (here)

Posted by Retief (here)
My current thoughts on this subject...are that maybe nothing exists except consciousness. ...that would mean anything and everything we perceive as an external world is simply information

I've contemplated this as well. If I understand you correctly another way of saying this would be that our physical world is not really physical at all. we are not actually "someplace" on a physical planet experiencing a physical existence but rather this is all one giant theater of the mind (the collective consciousness) as if its the most realistic dream ever but in reality nothing in it is really happening. While I accept that may in fact be possible, it is a little depressing to think that all of this is for nothing and that anything we do here is pointless because it's just some universal dream.

Its not depressing because you are the dreamer and within this dream is the opportunity to be enlightened, mystics say that this is your reason for being here.
So you are both at the Movies and in the movie.
Glad your back on line.

Chris

[WhiteLove]

Posted by Truthster013 (here)
Now, this energy (or Universal Energy as I call it) radiates in waves, vibrations, and frequencies and it is from those vibrations that consciousness (awareness) and all physical matter as we know it was formed and is being held together. Should things stop vibrating at each specific frequency everything as we know it would simply lose form and return to it's natural state (free energy). In that way EVERYTHING in our world is part of that same energy and therefore part of what you might call "God".

...

Lastly, because I probably lost you already, some people may come to "escape" this physical world and trap when they truly come to remember and understand what they are. Others will simply die and then be put back into a new vessel to start again with a new form of amnesia. You might call this a form of reincarnation as they are repeating the same loop and trap over and over until they come to finally realize that their small life and personality are NOT what they really are. They ARE the universe. They are everything. They can escape the trap of consciousness.

Truthster013, I think your line of thought is interesting, I will try to open it up further.

Imagine that truth is infinite in every way, so there are no limitations attached to its being. As humans we currently perceive creation from a human perspective. This perspective has limitations attached - between this perspective and the perspective of God I believe there is infinite amount realization layers, infinite amount of higher degrees of truth yet to be discovered. In the human perspective we currently have a very subjective limited idea about love, in the awaked state in the human form we have discovered that our subjective inner most great imagination of truth love and peace, is something that exists and something we are not excluded from - creation is like that. Not only do we come to that realization, we are at that point also through the power of love breaking free from what currently are some of the limitations that define time and space - we are in being in many profound ways way less limited because we are in being the corresponding level of love and truth that overcomes those limitations. Everything becomes in every way more whole.

When we are here on earth, our soul has experiences that in a great number of ways relate to love. These experiences make soul imprints and these imprints define who we actually are. In this current moment each one of us as spirits vibrate at a certain particular frequency, this frequency is in resonance with and is attached to the human body and its gravitational domain. This vibration is not alone as such in creation, it has a soul mate, which is precisely the same vibration but of opposite polarity. When you meet your soul mate, that person makes you whole and you make that person whole. Although this is in our current understanding the greatest thing we think we can experience as beings, out of this soul merger in trinity with God I believe a new higher being is born that is now the new vibration of that trinity - in resonance with a corresponding gravitational domain. So I find that the awakening process is to a great degree a process of learning about the fruits of love - the freedoms at greater and greater unlimitation, truth, peace and love, the process of learning about the infinite love of God. It becomes a process of forever discovering more and more love and more and more fruits of that love. Your love and what you always knew in heart was true, I believe God is on a very personal level going to have you meet a higher more true version of that - it will become known to you the level of love God loves you and the amount of access you have to that love.

[Flash]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Truthster013 (here)

Posted by Retief (here)
My current thoughts on this subject...are that maybe nothing exists except consciousness. ...that would mean anything and everything we perceive as an external world is simply information

I've contemplated this as well. If I understand you correctly another way of saying this would be that our physical world is not really physical at all. we are not actually "someplace" on a physical planet experiencing a physical existence but rather this is all one giant theater of the mind (the collective consciousness) as if its the most realistic dream ever but in reality nothing in it is really happening. While I accept that may in fact be possible, it is a little depressing to think that all of this is for nothing and that anything we do here is pointless because it's just some universal dream.

Its not depressing because you are the dreamer and within this dream is the opportunity to be enlightened, mystics say that this is your reason for being here.
So you are both at the Movies and in the movie.
Glad your back on line.

Chris

you are saying Chris that we are playing a thrilling video game??

I remember telling my daughter that every time she eats junk food, being the god of her body, every single cell in it kneel down and pray "no, no, please God, spare us the catastrophe" because she is ruining them. She still remembers it.

I truly think that you are right.

I have been told that everything, absolutely everything in our personal world, i.e. this thread, my house, the pic of you Chris, everyhting is a construct of my own creation because I am learning how to become a creator through 3D creations. And that my mind (our minds) are all powerfull. If conscious, creations could be marvelous. It is through the unconsciousness that bad stuff is created. Even the cabal's game is part of it.

So, up to us...

[greybeard]

Yes Flash--we dream till we awaken--then its not personal any more yet compassion remains

Self is unaffected yet it all seems so real.

We are all actors in the play of life

There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. William Shakespeare
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/william_shakespeare

We are such stuff as dreams are made on; and our little life is rounded with a sleep. William Shakespeare
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/william_shakespeare

Chris

[Johan (Keyholder)]

About being "at the Movies" and being in the movie.

Can it be that we are ALL actors and actresses in the movie?
That some of the actors are also - at the same time - spectators at the movie(s)?
And that a few, very few, are - again at the same time - also the Director of the Movies?

It's where we all may be heading to, somewhere, somewhen... all becoming "directors of the Movies".

[greybeard]

anyway the question literally is "Who am I?"
The advice is discard all that is not Self( Sanskrit Neity neity) not this not this.

Ch

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Keyholder (here)
About being "at the Movies" and being in the movie.

Can it be that we are ALL actors and actresses in the movie?
That some of the actors are also - at the same time - spectators at the movie(s)?
And that a few, very few, are - again at the same time - also the Director of the Movies?

It's where we all may be heading to, somewhere, somewhen... all becoming "directors of the Movies".

Yes on discovering this and realizing Self there no further reincarnation

[greybeard]

First the disclaimer--Im not saying im right about anything I post--all is "Maybe so"

There is nothing but consciousness--formless becomes form in various vibration from highest to lowest.
No level superior to another--just different.
The enlightened are at a higher vibration than a stone.

There are many interesting books on energy Mantak Chia has written a few.
The chakras and micro cosmic orbit worth investigating
http://www.healing-tao.co.uk/ht_microcosmic_orbit.htm

The subject of Gnostic View of God and Enlightenment is obviously very interesting to the intellect--it opens up investigation of similar and related matter.

However the Truth is literally the Self and the search tends to complicate and take away from the Truth of " I am That" the totality all of it without exception.
How can you find that which you are?
Truth is revealed by discarding all that is not Self.
Everything else is interesting but nothing to do with enlightenment--thats just my opinion.

Chris

[Foxie Loxie]

"I Am That I Am"!!

[Red Skywalker]

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
"I Am That I Am"!!

Alright, now what is that "I" or "ME" or "MYSELF" ?

I , that means the now reading and writing person in a human like body, am a technician. So I cannot agree with sayings like "there is only consciousness or a dreamer". To me there must be a mechanism that creates the "I", like the software in a computer. Where did the computer came from and who created it? Where did God, The Creator came from? Some unknown and impossible to understand energy or what?
I can understand the "I" when just listening to my breathing in a quite room and ask myself: who is listening?
After some reflection on this and finding a possible mechanism after just twenty years of study, meanly because of getting rid of all complexities and existing theories, I have come to the conclusion that the "I" is an equal thing for everybody and everything. There is just one "I". For example, telepathy is only talk and listen to ... another part of yourself, you are me and I am you. The "I" is the same and the difference between the two personal I's is just evolutionary. The "I", now as the meant consciousness, is omnipresent and timeless. It can be seen if you start to understand: it's empty space. Also the empty space in between you and your screen. It's the zeropoint in your hart and other chackra's. The "I" IS God. Ok, that gives some complications; I am God, or at least in a low evolutionary state, but already passed the mineral, vegetable, etc. states.

The origin of the "I" starts by detecting it's mirror image as a light point in absolute darkness. Here we have to look at the formed feed back loop of electric and magnetic forces in the form of a spherical toroid for further explanation.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TEH7Kbg5idk

rounded lines are magnetic, straight lines are electric.
Just a testing animation for my own research.

The formed "I" had to jump to it's mirror image by the under laying natural force and then saw another reflection of itself, now being a circle. The next step was jumping to some point on that circle. Then there are many, many, even billions steps into the future, possibly for ever to go. TIME has started, the Universe has started and to the "I", the Observer, a very small start of consciousness, but still very far from self-consciousness. This can be schematically drawn and the under laying natural force is absolute coldness and infinite emptiness which can never be filled with anything. That's why the Universe does not exists, only when Observed as mirror reflections and projections of the "I". The Absolute Coldness and Emptiness is still the case, but creates potential forces in the form of electrical charge. It's the source for electrical charge and needs itself to be equalized. This equalization goes into several steps, creating the so called 'Dimensions'. There is no scientist who can truly explain the origin of electrical charge. Here you have something, although it needs more explanation of course.

A more detailed explanation of my view for a separate topic is in the making. I may call the topic: "The mechanics of the Universe: One sudden Big Bang or infinite many small plops".
However, this can still take some more years due to lack of my time and lack of interest by the public.

Maybe this story gives some food for debate or triggers other insides.

(Forever Young and Eternal Alive, ME ... and YOU, of course. Both of us but only one "I" being old, very, very old, been already alive from the very beginning)

[greybeard]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Part of the challenge is language.

Nasargadatta in the book "I am That" speaking from "his" experience is clear that "I" created consciousness--the "one without a second" is prior to everything
Nasargadatts also said that what he is --is beyond definition and concept.

In Genesis "God" said "I am That I am"--so are you. This is beyond belief.

If it was only Nasargadatta that said this then I would not take his statement"I am That" on board.
However similar statements have been made by the Enlightened "Self realized "since word was recorded.
He was also fond of pointing out you are the Unborn--you were never born and that which was not born can not die--you existed before time and will exist after creation ceases.

As pointed to, Tim's thread has a lot of answers.

Chris

[Red Skywalker]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Part of the challenge is language.

Old wisdom has many physics in it, if the language can be translated.
I can see something of it, but translation is a very hard thing to do, as seen in my previous reply.

[waves]

The issues that really throw me about the nature of soul and consciousness are one, when I hear talk of far more technically advanced entities able to 'create souls', 'capture souls' and or clone bodies and 'insert souls'.

Other civilizations/entities creating souls? Lots of implications there.

And two, the possibility that our perspective from only the remnants in earth 'history' may be ridiculously limited. It's hard to see how anything can be atomically separate from other, but where do we stand among billions of unimaginably more technologically advanced civilizations of entities that have come and gone in eternity?

Unfortunately, I also am very concerned that so far no matter how small or big a picture I try to see, it seems the eat or be eaten paradigm is the inescapable structure no matter how advanced some civilizations get in their ability to create and manipulate matter, energy and consciousness.

They are still creating wars, conquests, slaves and not in the least concerned with love and/or how it relates to some soul aspect of their consciousness - as if they've learned love doesn't matter.

[Elpis]

I believe in the evolution of the soul and that we are here to learn all we can.

I do believe it to be a form of energy, a consciousness, with no beginning and no end…not starting with conception or ending at death. We are just a place for it to stay awhile.

[Red Skywalker]

Posted by Elpis (here)
I do believe it to be a form of energy, a consciousness, with no beginning and no end…not starting with conception or ending at death. We are just a place for it to stay awhile.

The "I" or a consciousness is in my view indeed a physical form of energy with electromagnetic properties, which are equal to Light. But the frequencies, or colors, have a much wider range then only what we can see. At the highest frequency it manifests as empty space. So empty space is light and consciousness and thus filled with energy, or is energy which can be manipulated and used. This is why an only mechanical view can be very destructive. The spiritual side must be understood as well.

Many civilizations still lack that view, but got the technics to build souls in the form of, lets call them still UFO's. A UFO is an artificial soul, or manipulated "I" energy of low frequency to which the occupants directly can connect. The same technics can be used to manipulate souls. Fortunately there are also higher evolved civilizations who do not have to use mechanical means anymore.

We have the same problem, we have free energy and 'UFO's', but in the hands of the wrong people who have no understanding of the conscious nature of the energy they are using.

[greybeard]

Posted by waves (here)
The issues that really throw me about the nature of soul and consciousness are one, when I hear talk of far more technically advanced entities able to 'create souls', 'capture souls' and or clone bodies and 'insert souls'.

Other civilizations/entities creating souls? Lots of implications there.

And two, the possibility that our perspective from only the remnants in earth 'history' may be ridiculously limited. It's hard to see how anything can be atomically separate from other, but where do we stand among billions of unimaginably more technologically advanced civilizations of entities that have come and gone in eternity?

Unfortunately, I also am very concerned that so far no matter how small or big a picture I try to see, it seems the eat or be eaten paradigm is the inescapable structure no matter how advanced some civilizations get in their ability to create and manipulate matter, energy and consciousness.

They are still creating wars, conquests, slaves and not in the least concerned with love and/or how it relates to some soul aspect of their consciousness - as if they've learned love doesn't matter.

Hi Waves
you either believe what comes from Mooji and quite a few other enlightened or you believe secondhand stories which have little personal proof--ie have you personally witness any thing that you speak of?
If you believe the Enlightened then that covers everything because it is the play of consciousness.
In other words everything that you speak of is possible within the play but while it seems very real it has no lasting reality.
It is only seems real at one level of consciousness.
A mirage can seem real, a dream very real but on awakening it is seen to be a dream.

The majority of NDE Near death experiences speak of the realisation that all is god.
Dr Eben Alexander worth looking at on U tube or reading his book

There is nothing to fear.
You are not the body or the mind--you are eternal--you can not be stolen--who is there to steal you?
No Other, no subject, no object--Who is there apart from You to do anything?

Christ quote "The Father and I are One." this applies to all of consciousness.

Gold can take many form but melted down it is gold
One consciousness--many forms.

One ancient definition is "Form and formless,both and neither"
In this world everything is energy at different vibrations--atoms in movement--there is nothing apart from this.
On leaving this world that energy reverts to formless--you cant see it touch it how could it be stolen or affected touched in anyway?
Im not claiming to be right.
The mind will offer up many thoughts on this.
Truth is not an idea or a belief--it is by its very nature eternal, that which is eternal is unchanging.

Chris

[Rich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Its not depressing because you are the dreamer and within this dream is the opportunity to be enlightened,

A quote from ACIM that I enjoyed:

You are at home in God, dreaming of exile but perfectly capable of
awakening to reality. Is it your decision to do so? You recognize from your
own experience that what you see in dreams you think is real while you are
asleep. Yet the instant you waken you realize that everything that seemed to
happen in the dream did not happen at all. You do not think this strange,
even though all the laws of what you awaken to were violated while you
slept. Is it not possible that you merely shifted from one dream to another,
without really waking?

[Rich]

Posted by Red Skywalker (here)
I , that means the now reading and writing person in a human like body,

Interesting statement, so you are saying there is a person inside a human body? Where in the body is that person located?
Is the person a product of the body? If you say it is, would that not be a claim that the body is producing the mind instead of it being a thought of the mind?

[Red Skywalker]

Posted by EmEx (here)

Posted by Red Skywalker (here)
I , that means the now reading and writing person in a human like body,

Interesting statement, so you are saying there is a person inside a human body?

No, there is not a person as a thing in the body, but there is a presence of the person, like the scientist using a robot on Mars and using virtual reality equipment. The scientist is looking through the camera's, turns the wheels, measures/feels temperature, etc. The scientist is not physical present but experiences like he is in the robot as the robot. The connection of the "I" with the human body is via resonances of electromagnetism from the quantum level to geometrical electro and magnetic fields around the body and also via sound and other mechanical vibrations. Many parts of the human body are sound resonance chambers. The human body receives and transmits on many vibrational levels for it's communication to "I".

I should have written:
"I, that means the part of "I" that is now a reading and writing person in a human like body,"

Posted by EmEx (here)
Where in the body is that person located?

Where is the man in the radio? Not in the radio itself. His voice comes from the receiving antenna of the radio via vibrational electromagnetism. The radio is only a detector and amplifier. The radio is not the man and by killing the radio, you can not kill the man.

Posted by EmEx (here)
Is the person a product of the body? If you say it is, would that not be a claim that the body is producing the mind instead of it being a thought of the mind?

The person is NOT a product of the body, the body is the product of the person, or better, the body has been tuned to the person that the "I" wants to use for experiencing this level of existence for it's development and reconnection with the "I" of ALL.

Now, why is there a distinction between the big "I" and the personal "i" of a human? Or, how can you distinct a droplet of water in an ocean of water? Take the droplet and let it spin in the ocean water:

The droplet can grow and will finally become the ocean.

Here's another view, the nuclear power-plant instrument panel:

Which meter needs urgent attention? ...

Finally, Dan Winter on DNA and vibration:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VPLGN0yIDTg

(Sure, also pseudo science / fake news / alu heads ... )

[Ernie Nemeth]

Essence begets Will. Will precedes Purpose.

Form and function are One. Form/function is the purpose of function/form.

This is the Law of the One - Intelligent Design.

or...

The little me believes. The Mighty I knows.

hiya Red, and Chris!

[greybeard]

Good to see you Ernie.
Have a great day


Here is an idea--smiling

Everything comes from awareness and drops back into awareness --there is only knowing

Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qyVwfqpKxrM