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Thread: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

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    Bhutan Avalon Member enigma3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Reincarnation is not a trap. Good grief. Put in Christian terms, God wants you to mature spiritually so you see God, are at one with God. Jesus said, I and my god are one. And I sit at the right hand of God. And further, you will do what I do and more. So it is our spiritual birthright to know God directly, consciously. Why are we born without this knowing? That is the great mystery. No writer has ever solved that dilemma. How long does it take to sit at the right hand of God? A few lifetimes. When you do, you will know the peace that passes all understanding.
    Let us not forget that reincarnation was a valid teaching within Christianity until the Catholic church voted it out. It still remains as a valid teaching in all eastern religions.

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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Reincarnation is I feel the most widely misunderstood teaching in the world.
    It has gotten mingled with all sorts of new and old-age assumptions.

    In Buddhism for instance there is an ongoing debate of what it is that reincarnates and receives Karma. If we can even call it receiving.
    The Older religions are still on the fence about the existence of a permanent self, or an eternal void which plays with itself. Not necessarily as an ultimate all knowing consciousness.

    In some traditions it is believed that all that incarnates is your dying-breath desire..
    I've heard some masters say that all that is reborn is our bad habits..
    In that sense You can be the cause of a next rebirth, But only to the extent that that rebirth was desired. It does not necessarily assume it is You(whatever that may be) who is in that new birth any more substantial than an idea..

    From this p.o.v the memories of "past" lives may well be the memory of someone else who desired what caused your birth. This does not mean You are in anyway involved in the birthing process other than as a recipient of the gift of life based on someone else's desire..

    With Love
    Eelco
    Last edited by Catsquotl; 20th March 2018 at 23:08.

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    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    imo, we just don't know, admit it to your self, we don't know...............
    Question Everything, always speak truth... Make the best of today, for there may not be a tomorrow!!! But, that's OK because tomorrow never comes, so we have nothing to worry about!!!

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Some of us DO know--at least, we know some pieces of the puzzle...
    I don't have past life recall, but I know intuitively when I meet someone in my soul group that I have known before.
    I have found the Michael Teachings to be very helpful in understanding some of the whys and hows and wherefores of reincarnation and our purpose in being part of these cycles.
    http://www.michaelteachings.com/
    I'm very cautious about any form of channeling, but if you find someone who is a clear channel, they can be very informative.
    As far as I am aware, there have been quite a few very talented, clear channels doing the Michael Teachings work, and it's a well established community.
    As for the issue of the False Light, it's consistent with the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and so I think there is something to it.
    The Tibetans seem to have learned quite a bit about that subject over the centuries...
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    United States Avalon Member white wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Reincarnation is a complicated matter when trying to look at in a narrow perspective.

    The sad truth is yes it is being abused by certain beings as a form of enslavement, but

    on the other hand the beings experiencing it our gaining enormously in most cases. It

    really just depends how you look at it some souls may gain enormously from a

    reincarnation cycle while other souls ma be corrupted and get stuck down here for

    eons. What can be said without much of a doubt is we all agreed to experience

    reincarnation knowing the risk vs rewards, but i honestly believe that if we are

    truly in a free will universe that beings who get trapped in reincarnation can get

    out if they decide to take their power back, but with so much corruption and

    manipulation they often get distracted and fall victim to higher level beings using

    them as pawns. Another thing to take into account is not every being on earth

    is in a reincarnation cycle some beings like star seeds and others are just here visiting
    knowledge is key to wisdom as is in keeping an open mind is essential for opening new doors

    you once kept closed .

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    Ecuador Honored, Retired Member. Warren passed on 2 July, 2020.
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    dynamo,
    I noticed that your post used the word 'you' five times in the first paragraph. There is an implied conclusion that the personality referenced in the 'you' is/was the the same in each incarnation. The posting also implied that lessons learned in previous lives would help the current personality to succeed in the current life. When I look at the personalities of my most recent past lives, I see huge differences. I do not see a smooth convergence like what one looks for in a mathematical sequence. So the 'you' in these previous lives is not the 'you' in my current life. I would like to know more about my previous lives, but not to use this information to correct my current life. I would rather use what I learn from my past lives to help understand the whole scheme of reincarnation.

    Spirit tells me that I have lived lives on other planets previous to this one. I have been told that my current life will be my last life on Earth - I will move on to other worlds. If the personality of my next incarnation is anything like me, now, then I will miss this beautiful world.

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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    I've experienced a nde - no light. Instead a great revelation: one must forget to think and feel that this game is "real". If I could remember what I felt then, there would be no point in anything really.

    This is my point of view: I think that this reincarnation-is-a-trap -concept is a meme put out there (by accident or by purpose) to lure people to run in circles. I am not against discussing it, but am somewhat against it being accepted as a fact, as there seems to be missing a great deal of evidence to support the claim.

    UT

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    Avalon Member meeradas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    [...] absolute [...] blackness [...]
    Now that's really interesting... what would light "be perceived as",
    if there is nothing else, and you're merged with it?

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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Hello all just came across an amazing music vid that seems very relevant to this OP.
    Give it a listen I think you will enjoy and take words from it.



    The above vid came after watching this one as posted in this Avalon OP as posted by OmeyocaN777 thx
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-forward/page2

    For what ever reason we find ourselves here, for what ever cause, good or bad, we are all in some lovely company


    LOVE
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Guess no one should deny there’s a wisdom in the OP.

    But give everything a deeper look please ...

    being conscious of his ‘presence’ means something else for advanced human being than living in a moment, with awareness span that of butterfly.
    Sure, many people and whole generations of them lived, survived or were made to live that way. Like animals do, living in a moment.
    Yes you can start from that moment and expand your awareness to infinity and it’s completely valid and genuine way to go ..for our spiritual selves .

    But then as a n’ths descendant of your oldest ancestor who remembers events dating back millions of years and retains memories of different times on this planet and beyond, worlds far beyond than what we see now,
    you are also reborn in each of your children and friend whom you loved, you’re reborn in every new place you lived and you learn from your rebirths and wisdoms acquired .

    Life in the Universe has long way to go ..through all its transformations , whether we call them important or a junk, it is alive as it constantly tries to grasp for new, better and bigger meaning .
    For the next magnificent form, the new, sporty and smarter form . Yes let’s make use of the moment ..

    but in fact we know already that the process of learning and knowing and dying and being born to Light hardly stops any soon.

    Yes there were and are people who attest they’ve ‘got it all’ this time and some of them are more convincing than others and some existed in past and some in future but in fact it never proved yet that someone would get to know ‘practically everything’ by looking to the Divine effulgence of the moment or by any other method and 99% of wisdom mankind can practically use was acquired by learning process.

    Of course that long learning curve has a ‘cap’ , that’s when heads bow down to the earth and take the path to dying in its current form and rising in new one from our ashes.
    It always happens , somehow, mystically.

    If it did not happen , we would not be sitting here now and typing to our prisms ..

    believe me also when I say that neither of us will be present here indefinitely and yet, another you or another me will make a use of our shares.

    Ideas never die ...



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    Netherlands Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)

    If it did not happen , we would not be sitting here now and typing to our prisms ..

    believe me also when I say that neither of us will be present here indefinitely and yet, another you or another me will make a use of our shares.

    Ideas never die ...


    I wonder what part of you remains..
    If I remember correctly you have a Mahayana Buddhist background correct?

    Would you like to share what you think it is that they teach about reincarnation?
    The way you worded it above seems to resemble more like a lineage of ancestry.
    What part of us remains when we dissolve into Nibanna

    With Love
    Eelco

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    United States Avalon Member ghostrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    What you do in this life matters... You laying out a future for yourself in lives to come... Your inner energy will remain the same but grow in knowledge and wisdom and power, yet each personality will be different, this guarantees progress... Through the new personality there are new ideas, cognitions, emotions, etc... We are making the universe more vast, diverse and more knowing ... One great energy with all the experiences of every person who ever lived, life seen through trillions of different viewpoints... Not knowing your past can be a good thing , you wont dwell on mistakes you can't change... We learn when we mess up, its about choices and the effects of those choices... Sometimes we get wrong sometimes we get it right, in the end its the experience of the journey... No one else can see or feel or experience life through your eyes, only you can bring valuable information back to creation...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)

    I also know that this is a free will choice universe. We develop discernment and follow the Inner Light and guidance of soul/Spirit within. Our soul is always in control--our Superconsciousness; not our egoic-mind separate sense of self.
    That's always been my strong belief too. Our personality-self, through which we experience this reality, is just a projection - a small fragment - of our greater over-soul.

    Picture yourself TODAY, at this very second at your computer, as the oversoul of yourself. Now picture yourself as you once WERE – as a five old at school, kindergarten. This is analogous to the GREATER YOU, looking down on the smaller you, which is here right now at your computer.

    Now imagine that 5 year old self, all those years ago, as a small, growing fragment of the greater YOU. As you look down (back) on that small projection, you understand how necessary it is (was) for that little YOU to go through that schooling and to experience those lessons. Even if the 5 year old self is sad or suffering, he/she made you what you are today. The child may even think it's trapped, and was tricked into going to school and isn't in control of anything. But it is sovereign and it is in control - but there's another control-system at a higher level as well, that is ultimately working for its benefit (by signing it up for school). It cannot see this beneficent hand or understand it. It's only 5 after all.

    The 5 year old is an aspect of you. It's real though, it existed – it exists right now, is going to school right now, aged 5, somewhere in the ALLness of multi-dimensional time. It may not want to go to kindergarten, but YOU know that it must in order to progress, learn, evolve. The 5 year old has little grasp of any higher reality, and may have some pretty wild ideas about what's what. But from your position in the NOW, looking back (down), the world of the 5 year is so easy to explain.

    I don't imply that anyone here is 5 years old, this is just a comparison to what you are here, now, and what you are THERE – in Spirit. The greater YOU is so vastly greater than what our limited mind function can comprehend. This life may feel like a trap, but probably so did kindergarten to the 5 year old.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    I don't think the OP article or anyone posting in this thread considers the reincarnation trap as factual or an absolute truth. I've been reading the posts, and what a few others and myself have said: We don't know. On questions regarding the afterlife, in-between lives, future/past lives, I won't accept anything as factual.

    Many of our current beliefs about the soul, afterlife, and reincarnation come from the New Age (NA) movement, which, as many have pointed out on and off Avalon, may be a psyop. This Omnisense thread discusses the NA psyop.

    As stated in my first post, there is some evidence -- not proof -- on the reincarnation trap: near death experience reports. Yes, it's subjective, but everything in this domain is subjective.

    Because we've been tricked so many times, I will remain in "question everything" mode. I'm not telling anyone that they should question everything; it's just what I choose to do.

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    United States Avalon Member Michelle Marie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)

    I also know that this is a free will choice universe. We develop discernment and follow the Inner Light and guidance of soul/Spirit within. Our soul is always in control--our Superconsciousness; not our egoic-mind separate sense of self.
    That's always been my strong belief too. Our personality-self, through which we experience this reality, is just a projection - a small fragment - of our greater over-soul.

    Picture yourself TODAY, at this very second at your computer, as the oversoul of yourself. Now picture yourself as you once WERE – as a five old at school, kindergarten. This is analogous to the GREATER YOU, looking down on the smaller you, which is here right now at your computer.

    Now imagine that 5 year old self, all those years ago, as a small, growing fragment of the greater YOU. As you look down (back) on that small projection, you understand how necessary it is (was) for that little YOU to go through that schooling and to experience those lessons. Even if the 5 year old self is sad or suffering, he/she made you what you are today. The child may even think it's trapped, and was tricked into going to school and isn't in control of anything. But it is sovereign and it is in control - but there's another control-system at a higher level as well, that is ultimately working for its benefit (by signing it up for school). It cannot see this beneficent hand or understand it. It's only 5 after all.

    The 5 year old is an aspect of you. It's real though, it existed – it exists right now, is going to school right now, aged 5, somewhere in the ALLness of multi-dimensional time. It may not want to go to kindergarten, but YOU know that it must in order to progress, learn, evolve. The 5 year old has little grasp of any higher reality, and may have some pretty wild ideas about what's what. But from your position in the NOW, looking back (down), the world of the 5 year is so easy to explain.

    I don't imply that anyone here is 5 years old, this is just a comparison to what you are here, now, and what you are THERE – in Spirit. The greater YOU is so vastly greater than what our limited mind function can comprehend. This life may feel like a trap, but probably so did kindergarten to the 5 year old.
    What a great analogy of the higher and deeper perspective!

    I appreciate all lessons in life, even the hard ones. In fact, when I WAS 5, my father died. Then I started school. That experience lead to other experiences, some light and joyful, others heavy and challenging. I really feel stronger and wiser and feel that I have accumulated "treasures in Heaven". I am very grateful for Life and every experience I've ever had.

    Whatever happens, I can appreciate the purpose of it and the soul power, or golden nugget of wisdom, it generates.

    Blessings everyone!
    MM
    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Moments like incarnations have one thing in common, this moment.
    May you live, laugh, love this moment like it's the very first time.
    That's all that really matters in matter.
    Knock Knock

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    Quote Posted by Agape (here)

    If it did not happen , we would not be sitting here now and typing to our prisms ..

    believe me also when I say that neither of us will be present here indefinitely and yet, another you or another me will make a use of our shares.

    Ideas never die ...


    I wonder what part of you remains..
    If I remember correctly you have a Mahayana Buddhist background correct?

    Would you like to share what you think it is that they teach about reincarnation?
    The way you worded it above seems to resemble more like a lineage of ancestry.
    What part of us remains when we dissolve into Nibanna

    With Love
    Eelco

    Thank you for questions Eelco, difficult ones indeed.

    My own perspective on what all may be considered reincarnation are kind of multi focal and versatile. My views come from observation , some study of course as well as deeper insights but I think that it is impossible to lay one single theory that would explain and address the whole phenomenon of what we consider ‘reincarnation’ and our memories of the past.

    Even each ancient esoteric tradition seems to have different views or opinions on what or who is capable of reincarnation.

    According to Vedas we are composed of 7 bodies of which the grossest visible tangible human body travels this human life and stands for proof to its existence.

    Our more subtle bodies in the meantime are living from subtle food of energy, emotional and sensual charge, of information and of life purpose .

    While all the weight of this world seems to fall on the resonance between nature and nurture
    as higher beings we are equally incapable of survival empty of love, positivity and meaning .

    Some people can see those higher and more subtle bodies , others can not while trapped in this human experience.

    This human body is like a peel , it literally peels off to this density of matter rather continuously. When the potential for incarnation that is manifestation in this realm is exhausted we say the person died.

    With dissolution of the grossest body some of the lower subtle bodies are consequently dissolved as well, sooner or later, the ‘ghost’ of the personality dies and detached itself from the long lasting entity that made him to be here at the first place.

    Our ‘higher bodies’ are more less impersonal and perceived in selfless manner to the lower entity.

    Our higher bodies appear to be the Selfless self when seen from bellow.
    They may even appear as ‘another Self’ or ones own Guide or Deity.

    While full manifestation of those higher Selves in this realm is a matter of practice attempting to integrate and ‘bring back to purpose’ all our ‘fallen matter’

    they continue existing in its own dimension and realm at all times since they’re ‘almost’ immortal.


    Buddha has completed his destiny and trajectory beyond where most of us can see really. Such an accomplishment is rare but there are those teachers or yogis of partial accomplishment who are equal in one principle and that is they dissolved most of their confusions and reasons to be born in the same era.

    It /they don’t say they won’t be born ever again but simply, not till their teachings fulfill their meaning here at least.

    Someone like Buddha exhausted all their meaning by body, speech and mind for perfecting one single incarnation converting it to Jewel.

    Their wisdom is purified and becomes impeccable so there’s no need to repeat the same process.

    Much like the OP of this thread, by putting all the effort to the life we have inherited we can make it fully meaningful. Buddha himself did not pay much attention to the phenomenon and of course he denied he will be reborn in this realm ..
    till the next time.

    Those teachers who are excellent always say ‘put all the effort’ to practice in this life as if it was your only one.
    Mahayana and Theravada both claim that you can be trapped here for millions of life times and the mill will never exhausts itself as long as we fuel it by wanting to take a bit here n there.

    Whether this is true for everybody, globally or for all human beings is difficult to say.

    Whatever is natural phenomenon has many pathways to go, live or die.

    There are ‘sudden enlightenments’ and ‘spiritual deaths’ and all kinds of transformations, elevations and declinations pertaining to subtle bodies and life itself.

    So ‘establishing a doctrine’ that would work for every purpose is impossible in my opinion .

    I see there are many options .



    Last edited by Agape; 21st March 2018 at 18:43.

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    Bhutan Avalon Member enigma3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Re: no light. When a person meditates, duality is first seen. Eventually the meditation, with guidance, turns inward toward non duality. Should the meditative experience deepen, one is taken to oneness. In oneness all creation is present in unformed expression. Some call it hallucination. Light is present there. It is described as brighter than full daylight, an ineffable light that fills all space. Now if the meditator continues on this path, the realm of no light is experienced. So beyond oneness there is no light. Absolutely nothing. The place where oneness originates, or comes from. Bernadette Roberts (we lost her recently), a Christian contemplative, experienced this ultimate original state of nothingness. It freaked her out at first. However, she eloquently expresses it in her books. She had a great quote on the subject. She said everyone should experience what she experienced - just before dying! My oh my.

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    United States Moderator Chris Gilbert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Reincarnation and karma is something to be feared only if you are looking at it from a linear, sequential standpoint where liberation and enlightenment is a linear event you are striving for in the future. In the experiences I've had doing neikung over the past several years, I'm coming more so to the perception that linear time is an illusion, and from the standpoint of the soul, all lifetimes are occurring simultaneously. Past life memories you access that seem to have caused your current conditions may be less so karma in the sense it's traditionally thought of, and more so a resonance where similar lives are remembered for insight and learning. You don't always remember all of them at any given moment because it would be incredibly traumatic and disorienting for your physical brain to handle. It's better to visit and link to those other selves at the right moment as needed.

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    Default Re: Say No To Reincarnation And Remember Who You Are!

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    I've experienced a nde - no light. Instead a great revelation: one must forget to think and feel that this game is "real". If I could remember what I felt then, there would be no point in anything really.

    This is my point of view: I think that this reincarnation-is-a-trap -concept is a meme put out there (by accident or by purpose) to lure people to run in circles. I am not against discussing it, but am somewhat against it being accepted as a fact, as there seems to be missing a great deal of evidence to support the claim.

    UT
    Ultima Thule, very interesting experience you had -- and how fortunate to remember. I've had that insight from time to time as well --that nothing really matters, truly. That this is all a play, the good guys, the bad guys, the in between guys. Usually that comes after a bit of cannabis but the residue remains.

    What if reincarnation is both a trap (for some) and a learning and expanding tool (for others). And maybe we've all experienced it both ways? On the other hand, Nisargadatta usually said the whole reincarnation thing was illusion as well--even so far as saying "you didn't even incarnate in this body!!" Of course, he's got a pretty wide overview, ha-ha, on it all...

    I'd venture to say, in this moment anyway, that incarnating and re-incarnating is ultimately benevolent. Maybe though, it's "time" for some of us to um, move on... take a very long break from it ?
    Last edited by Caliban; 22nd March 2018 at 01:25.

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