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Thread: Spelling Prompts

  1. Link to Post #41
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Ascension (here)
    A person was recently unsubscribed, in part, for misspelling. The word was archetype. The word was misspelled as arkeytype
    This was Vernaianawa, as anyone can easily look up and see. (And yes, his spelling was very phonetic!)

    But that's not why he was unsubscribed
    . Many of his words could have been perfectly spelled, but his posts still often made little sense.

    The core problem was that he was unable to read his own posts from anyone else's viewpoint, and see that he was frequently REALLY hard to understand.

    I'll say that again, because it's really worth stressing. Always read your posts from another person's point of view. Do that WHATEVER you're writing, even if you're leaving a note for your partner on the kitchen table.

    Someone who is pathologically unable or unwilling to do that has a major problem, because they're locked inside themselves and can't get out to see themselves objectively.

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  3. Link to Post #42
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    Maybe you were quite unaware of it. You wrote:
    Quote just maybe stop the grammar nazi's
    Do you see what a nasty, unnecessary, little barbed remark that was, sitting in the middle of a very clever and well-presented post?
    It wasn't intended as a nasty barbed remark.
    In my household it's a common name for my wife and my mother in law who admit to their "unhealthy" need for spelling to be correct.
    On the interweb I found that phrase used often in jest.
    Here's the analogy. Someone (maybe your wife or mother-in-law!) might really like a tidy kitchen, or attractive decorations in the house, and encourage you please to support that in lots of small ways.

    They're not tidiness 'nazis' for that, not is it unhealthy. (In fact, unless it's obsessive, it might be just the opposite.)

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    If it offended anyone, please feel free to remove it.
    I'm not going to remove it, because the idea is firmly justified in your mind. Your post is just a representation of that.

    * Note to all: this is NOT a trivial little quibble. There are some mighty important concepts being discussed here.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 21st March 2018 at 22:23.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Ascension (here)
    A person was recently unsubscribed, in part, for misspelling. The word was archetype. The word was misspelled as arkeytype, the phonetic sound of the word.
    One misspelled word wouldn't get someone kicked out. I can attest to that because I've made hundreds of spelling errors in the last six years. I still catch misspelled words and grammar in my old and not so old posts.
    ..................................................
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 21st March 2018 at 22:30.

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  7. Link to Post #44
    Netherlands Avalon Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Another thing occurred to me just now. In conversation I feel it is helpful to ask whether ones assumptions about meaning match the intention send.
    Asking for clarification may and will in most cases deepen understanding and clarity on any subject.

    Anyway...
    A quick google search reveals a lot of meme's and it's even explained in the Urban Dictionary..
    I do see what you mean Bill.

    From the Urban dictionary..
    Quote Grammar Nazi
    noun (pl. -s)
    1. A person who uses proper grammar at all times, esp. online in emails, chatrooms, instant messages and webboard posts; a proponent of grammatical correctness. Often one who spells correctly as well.

    2. a Ė A person who believes proper grammar (and spelling) should be used by everyone whenever possible. b Ė One who attempts to persuade or force others to use proper grammar and spelling. c Ė One who uses proper grammar and spelling to subtly mock or deride those who do not; an exhibitor of grammatical superiority. d Ė One who advocates linguistic clarity; an opponent of 1337-speak. e Ė One who corrects others' grammar; the spelling police.

    proper noun
    3. A nickname, pseudonym or handle for a well-known grammar nazi (defs. 1 and 2) within a particular social circle, used to show either great respect or great contempt for his or her abilities.

    verb (transitive)
    4. To correct the grammar of (a person's speech, a piece of writing, etc.); to edit for grammar and spelling; to proofread.
    1. A grammar nazi knows the difference between "there," "their" and "they're."

    2. Teh grammar nazis haev invadd r formu.

    3. Grammar Nazi, help me with my English homework please.

    4. He totally grammar nazied my article, replacing pronouns and rewriting clauses.
    by Qaanol January 21, 2005
    With Love
    Eelco
    ---
    Please leave some of your light everywhere you go.

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  9. Link to Post #45
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from work. So I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from my smart phone. As far as I know, all smart phones have some version of autocorrect. I have a Samsung S6, and if I misspell a word it will either:

    A) Correct it automatically to the proper spelling

    B) Turn the word into whatever word it determines I'm trying to spell, which isn't the word I intended.

    C) Leave my word alone, but give me 2 other options that my misspelling may be attempting to represent, and a third option (a check mark) that confirms that my word is the way I want it if I select it.

    When I'm on my laptop and I misspell a word on Avalon, the misspelling is underlined by a squiggly red line. It's not corrected automatically, but it lets me know a correction is required.

    My question for the forum:
    While posting, is everybody getting some sort of prompt when a spelling error occurs?

    I'm very curious.
    I took off the autocorrect on my smartphone, it would mix French and English, while typing in English it would presume it is a French word and vice versa. You would not believe the weird texts some recipients received.

    On my computer, In installed Grammarly for English, sometimes it works, sometimes it just show nothing, I do not know why. Maybe it is mixed up in between languages again???
    You might want to research grammarly. I can not recall but recently I heard something not good about them. Like all your data is kept by them kind of deal. I really dont remembering the specifics and maybe I am talking out my ass. But really check into them and what information they store about you.

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  11. Link to Post #46
    Netherlands Avalon Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    If it offended anyone, please feel free to remove it.
    I'm not going to remove it, because the idea is firmly justified in your mind. Your post is just a representation of that.

    * Note to all: this is NOT a trivial little quibble. There are some mighty important concepts being discussed here.
    I agree.
    Because of that and because I enjoy and value some of the people who may have been taken aback by me using the term.
    I am going to ask for a clarification in why you felt it needed pointing out.

    At the same time I'll try to show what happens in my mind when pointed out like this.

    Using the term grammar nazi as I did comes from a place of perceived harmlessness as I do use the term often in jest.
    Below the surface of by conscious awareness I did feel the need to push back a little in a thread about the use of proper grammar to
    a) Hide my own insecurities when it comes to english spelling and grammar.
    b) felt a need to speak up for those that feel they couldn't or wouldn't speak up, but maybe feel cornered because their skill in writing may be for whatever reason be below the standards discussed.
    In my case I cannot and won't learn the proper use for their, there and the're, because I assume the reader will understand what I mean without expecting me to learn better English.

    From that the term as used inside a post might have been received as "hurtful" something I could have been aware of taking the time to re-read my post for the feel instead of just the spelling.
    This is what I get from this quibble.

    Question is.. Is that what you intended?

    With Love
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  13. Link to Post #47
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    ... <trim> ... but his posts still often made little sense.

    The core problem was that he was unable to read his own posts from anyone else's viewpoint, and see that he was frequently REALLY hard to understand.

    I'll say that again, because it's really worth stressing. Always read your posts from another person's point of view. Do that WHATEVER you're writing, even if you're leaving a note for your partner on the kitchen table.

    Someone who is pathologically unable or unwilling to do that has a major problem, because they're locked inside themselves and can't get out to see themselves objectively.

    Hear! Hear! (to use correct grammar that most get wrong )

    "The greatest fallacy of communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - quote by some person, (I can't recall all the people I quote).

    But this is so true - communication is not a one way affair, a message has to be received as the messenger intended, or its only partial communication at best, and often results in confusion. The messenger needs to take care in his presentation, or the value, accuracy and effectiveness of the communication may well become lost or distorted. So it behooves any 'presenter' of communication to do their best to ensure the intended audience receives it, as it was intended. Sometimes this takes a great deal of care and thought.

    Goodness, I am always going back and editing my posts to ensure that my messages are not misconstrued, but in that same effort, I often resort to using more accurate, but lesser known words (which the stupid spellchecker always makes me second guess). Unfortunately, these can sometimes be lost on people with ESL. To help balance this I often present in metaphors or analogies. There's no perfect way, but it shows when people make that effort ... or none at all.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 21st March 2018 at 23:58. Reason: clarity and formatting
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Hear! Hear! (to use correct grammar that most get wrong )

    "The greatest fallacy of communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - quote by some person, (I can't recall all the people I quote).

    But this is so true - communication is not a one way affair, a message has to be received as the messenger intended, or its only partial communication at best, and often results in confusion. The messenger needs to take care in his presentation, or the value, accuracy and effectiveness of the communication may well become lost or distorted. So it behooves any 'presenter' of communication to do their best to ensure the intended audience receives it, as it was intended. Sometimes this takes a great deal of care and thought.

    Goodness, I am always going back and editing my posts to ensure that my messages are not misconstrued, but in that same effort, I often resort to using more accurate, but lesser known words (which the stupid spellchecker always makes me second guess). Unfortunately, these can sometimes be lost on people with ESL. To help balance this I often present in metaphors or analogies. There's no perfect way, but it shows when people make that effort ... or none at all.
    George Bernard Shaw: 'The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.í

    Metaphors and analogies are great for those of us who tend to learn and process visually. FYI: Iíve got a Mike folder.

    I tend to keep my posts short and with a few main points. It takes me a good 20-45 minutes to write, rewrite, pare down, rewrite some more and even then, Iíll revisit and see where improvement couldíve been made. And in the end, Iíve been known to delete it.
    .................................................. ..........

    On the rare occasion when someone asked what do you mean? To my way of thinking, I honestly couldnít mean it any differently. I got nothiní more. Nada.

    A few people have written that itís a waste of data space when someone writes only a few lines. I choose a few lines over the novelettes with no paragraph breaks.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 22nd March 2018 at 00:30.

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    United States Avalon Member Ascension's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    I see both sides of this argument. The use of correct grammar, punctuation and presentation attracts a certain level of patronage.

    On the other hand, censorship based on a lack of cohesiveness, grammar and punctuation prevents ideas from reaching a larger audience. I usually try to work through the information with all its faults to determine the value. My personal preference...to see it flawed rather than not see it all. Obviously, not the overwhelming majority.

    In posting links to other videos, sometimes, lack of comment leaves room for personal interpretation, but certainly doesn't work for people who want a quick synopsis to help them determine if the topic is in their interest area.

    It must be really difficult to make policy from a balanced perspective when the goals appear to be somewhat opposed.

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  19. Link to Post #50
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    A great thread, Mike

    I am pretty blind to the red squiggly lines - I just talk back at them and say: yes yes, I will get back to you when I am finished. And I do because I like a clean page.

    I am also haggling with auto correct on my phone, which is my primary device these days when I engage on the Forum and on social media but that is configured for Swedish and English ó and really slows me down. Creating images with graphics and text overlays is actually more fun and easier I have found when using my phone. I am app happy, so to speak.

    If I may add into the commentary that has unfolded on this thread, I would like to say that I like standards but the ones that I generally obey are the standards that I create for myself. This goes with communication and how I choose to do it.

    However, I also will give respect to standards practiced by others. And yes, I do get triggered by some repeated use/and misuse of spelling and especially when it just confuses meaning.

    So for these reasons, I always go over my text in a post, even after I publish it just to make sure that I have communicated what I have wanted to convey - but also to scan for any unconscious intent that I have communicated as well and which is fundamentally only going to cloud what readers think of what points I am trying to convey. I posit that they will be more likely caught up with how I am saying it - and not so much with what I am saying.

    I think how we choose and structure words and how we spell them should be honoured as important currency between us all. Because we do read between the lines and content is in form as well as form is in content, it is useful to check in with yourself to be conscious about this.

    Although never diagnosed, I believe that I have mild dyslexia. I sensed it very early on and I struggled with it but I was determined to push through and practice as a writer so I could be a clearer communicator. As I persevered, I found that aspects of grammar and spelling were quite powerful and impactful tools to have to help me make meaning - for myself first - but importantly for others as well.

    I donít take language lightly. Ever.
    Last edited by Debra; 22nd March 2018 at 06:20.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Thanks for the thread, Mike.

    What a strange language English is, with so many varied rules and clues from a variety of languages and their unique, syntax variations.

    The depth of this forum has prompted me to write for the first time on a public forum and in doing so, with any care about the message shared, necessitates rechecking how I spell. I also often revise what I've written, but my spell check is looking in a dictionary for the correct spelling, a habit which helps me retain that sometimes nonsensical, yet commonly accepted, spelling. I have a great appreciation for the forum presenting the opportunity to express and to learn far beyond what I thought, in years past, would ever be possible.

    Gotta give a lot of props for a forum with as much worth and quality, insight and diversity as this one has. It is just that attention to the craft of word-smything that has inspired many here to step up their writing and share, to prompt discussions, and to learn with a higher level of discernment. At the same time I am well aware that we speak with some who have varying levels of proficiency in English, so, at times, I foreshorten my writing to accommodate their level of understanding, without being condescending or insulting. (I do my best to share my insulting language with those who have worked very hard to deserve it.)

    I also see in the language how it has been used to manipulate understanding and refocus awareness. In this vein I choose to mis-spell words in order to prompt others to see those things I see and feel, those words and their arrangements that are used to alter their original intent for dishonest purposes. Either way, I most often overlook misspelling and look for the intent within the writing.

    When we see such a garbled communication, as in those that prompted a forum member's dismissal, it may, at times, be a sign of a physical or neural/chemical anomaly within the brain, something in need of discovery.

    Paula's brevity is the mark of mastery, just like the acupuncturist who uses very few needles, knowing full well that the healing lives primarily in their presence, where the interaction is already taking place and many pictures have already been taken by the mind's inner eye.

    Like Paula and others I do step back and consider if those things I have written have purpose and validity, be they serious or not, and I have also chosen not to post some things that might have just been an exercise in expression and saving some things for another appropriate time.
    Last edited by Hym; 22nd March 2018 at 13:53.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    Paula's brevity is the mark of mastery, just like the acupuncturist who uses very few needles, knowing full well that the healing lives primarily in their presence, where the interaction is already taking place and many pictures have already have been taken by the mind's inner eye.
    Thatís kind of you to say, Hym. Thank you. My brevity is a projection of my own short attention span.

    Last edited by RunningDeer; 22nd March 2018 at 08:46.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Proof of mastery:

    "A projection of my own short attention span".... one who sees the truth in it's beautiful and complex simplicity, wasting no time embellishing the obvious.

    Many pictures are worth more than a thousand words, each... and are often Posted here by a Running Dear.
    Last edited by Hym; 22nd March 2018 at 16:56.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Ascension (here)
    On the other hand, censorship based on a lack of cohesiveness, grammar and punctuation prevents ideas from reaching a larger audience.
    I might say that a lack of cohesiveness, grammar and punctuation prevents ideas from reaching a larger audience all on their own. In a way, it is its own censor

    I admire you for working your way through sloppy posts. I can forgive some sloppiness if the post is broken up into reasonablely sized paragraphs - that goes a long way with me! But if I see a giant block of uninterrupted text, forget it. And this brings up another topic: presentation. Paragraph breaks, bold lettering, underlined text and a splash of color go a long way. I'm trying to do a little of that recently, and it's actually kinda fun!

    Your post was well written and thoughtful. Easy and pleasant to read. I notice you have only 75 posts since 2011. Please post more!
    Last edited by Mike; 22nd March 2018 at 10:20.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Yes, and then I hit edit after it's posted, sometimes put the reason for the repost like Misspelling and then correct it. I have one now on "repost" but it doesn't give me "fifty-leven" options. LOL Smart phones aren't so smart, just sneaky and nosey.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Hahaha. I still use that one today. In fact just yesterday. My Charlie Brown years came back to me.

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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Sorry if I offended anyone with my "spelling" remark; that was not my intention.

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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
    Sorry if I offended anyone with my "spelling" remark; that was not my intention.
    Lady Loxie, you didnít upset me. Not even a teeny-tiny. You are of pure heart. In fact, thank you for opening a door that allowed me to get out what Iíve been holding in for the last several weeks. The same goes for Mike and Billís threads.

    Youíre fortunate to be able to put pen to paper with ease. On average, I consult the dictionary five times a day. Some of us expend a lot of time and energy on something that comes natural to many.

    I take full ownership for the useless hypersensitivity*. And I admit, it does spill over to those that nitpick, use condescending sarcasm or patronizing tones towards others on the forum. For that, I have zero tolerance. Their narcissist a$$ would be tossed off the forum tout suite. They are fortunate that Bill and the mod have a higher threshold than I.
    * useless hypersensitivity - residual effects of an ego filter thatís being worked on ATM. ....
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 22nd March 2018 at 14:38.

  36. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to RunningDeer For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (22nd March 2018), BMJ (22nd March 2018), Debra (22nd March 2018), Ewan (22nd March 2018), Foxie Loxie (22nd March 2018), Hym (22nd March 2018), Mike (22nd March 2018), onawah (22nd March 2018), Star Mariner (22nd March 2018)

  37. Link to Post #59
    Canada Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    Gotta give a lot of props for a forum with as much worth and quality, insight and diversity as this one has. It is just that attention to the craft of word-smything that has inspired many here to step up their writing and share, to prompt discussions, and to learn with a higher level of discernment. At the same time I am well aware that we speak with some who have varying levels of proficiency in English, so, at times, I foreshorten my writing to accommodate their level of understanding, without being condescending or insulting. (I do my best to share my insulting language with those who have worked very hard to deserve it.)
    Yes indeed. I have tried and failed using other forums, but I think this one is worth the effort, mainly due to the excellent moderation. The people matter too of course, but without good moderation, forums tend to turn into weapons.

    I laughed a lot (maybe too much) at your comment about sharing insulting language. That might just be extra-funny because of something that happened to me yesterday. I told someone that their online nick name was dumb. In my mind, I wasn't being mean. They deserve to know how dumb their name is ;-)

  38. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to petra For This Post:

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  39. Link to Post #60
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spelling Prompts

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    I laughed a lot (maybe too much) at your comment about sharing insulting language.
    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    I do my best to share my insulting language with those who have worked very hard to deserve it.
    Yes! That was worthy of Mark Twain.

  40. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    BMJ (22nd March 2018), Foxie Loxie (22nd March 2018), Hym (22nd March 2018), petra (22nd March 2018), RunningDeer (22nd March 2018), sunpaw (23rd March 2018), Tintin (22nd March 2018), YoYoYo (22nd March 2018)

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