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Thread: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

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    Avalon Member Tangri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by James Newell (here)
    Having been in the Church of scn for a number of years, and now free of the organization; I agree with much of what Dane says.
    I still audit and I know the tech of it can give absolutely amazing results. But the organization definitely went bad. I think many of the people who used to be in and now hate it simply never actually received good standard auditing. They think they were getting it but really they misidentified that they weren't getting real auditing. Of course the org can turn anybody off and I understand that. If any want some real auditing let me know, I do my best to deliver it right in the Field.
    www.getmoreable.com

    www.getmoreable.com

    How much are you charging? Is it per problem or for all packet?

    -Out of Body techniques delivered
    -Ethics counseling
    -Group counseling and lectures
    -Traumatic Incident Reduction
    -PTSD assistance
    -Business consultations
    -Advanced levels & reviews
    Love and Hope

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    United States Avalon Member James Newell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    All the basic books are good to read. Start with Dianetics the modern science of mental health, that's how it all started in 1950 btw, people got together and wham it started.
    Next book to read is science of survival, this book in 1951 LRH busted the MKULTRA program basically, and next the self analysis book, for a start. I will give you a link where any get some data. http://scientolipedia.org/info/Main_Page check out podcast 13 on it I recommend it.
    I also have some books I could email anyone also. Contact me in private if you want more. www.getmoreable.com

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    There are different actions and different levels. I can deliver the whole " Bridge" from new to advanced. Go thru the website email if want further specifics. I handle individuals case by case.
    Although if you have a large group you would like group auditing on I can do that too.

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    www.getmoreable.com

    How much are you charging? Is it per problem or for all packet?

    -Out of Body techniques delivered
    -Ethics counseling
    -Group counseling and lectures
    -Traumatic Incident Reduction
    -PTSD assistance
    -Business consultations
    -Advanced levels & reviews
    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    I have different charges on different actions. It is frequently dependent on the clients interest on what he wants to handle.
    I would suggest if you have questions or want an interview for something to go to my website and send an email to me and I'll get back to you personally about it. For example I can relieve alot of suffering if you have a loss about something and can even do this over the net.

    Jim www.getmoreable.com

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    A note of interest, maybe, to some: I'm reliably informed that Dane Tops has finally revealed herself at a recent independent Scientology Convention.

    (Read that sentence carefully! )

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Amazing!

    Any further detail?

    Can you least point us in the right direction?

    And do you think she would be open to interview?

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by ashva (here)
    Amazing!

    Any further detail?

    Can you least point us in the right direction?

    And do you think she would be open to interview?
    Well, I need to be a little careful — I don't know who else knows her name, but apparently it's out there now.

    The very neat thing here is that of course everyone, including the Church of Scientology, assumed without question for the last 36 years that Dane Tops was a man.

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Herself. Wow. And some synchronicity, personally. When reading up on the Miscavige lawsuit scandal(s) the other day, I was speculating on the presence behind the scenes, somewhere, of Dane Tops in all that. If not, I had to wonder if he was still around, as it's been so many years. And now this. Fascinating! A crop of names come to mind who it could be. But way to go with the misdirection. I never guessed for a second that he was a she. Now she's out, she'll be in the firing line. Hope she's well protected!
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    The very neat thing here is that of course everyone, including the Church of Scientology, assumed without question for the last 36 years that Dane Tops was a man.
    So when she went to the mailbox dressed as a gay men in a trench coat, it was really a woman underneath? It makes some of the strange stories in her interviewer even stranger ! Bill, did you change the gender of some of the other people in the story?

    I just finished reading the Dane Tops interview and it is an incredible story. It is often said that after a religion or church starts up, something mysteriously appears to turn that system into a form of social control and take away or water down its teachings and techniques which can enlighten, empower and liberate. This is a great example here.

    http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    [...]
    So when she went to the mailbox dressed as a gay men in a trench coat, it was really a woman underneath?

    [...]
    That was the best possible cover since, in those times, any gay person wouldn't be accepted to be a member/parishioner (never mind "staff") of the "Church" so that no one from the "Church" would be looking at a gay person to be a Scientology whistle blower, man or woman. And, if they did, they would still have been looking for a "man."
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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    It's interesting that Dane mentions NXIVM as being an offshoot of Scientology in a good way. Is that the same NXIVM as we are hearing so much about these days? Or is that a different offshoot? I do realize the interview was conducted ten years ago.

    If it is the same one in the news today, it apparently suffered the same fate as Scientology, by being subverted.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    The very neat thing here is that of course everyone, including the Church of Scientology, assumed without question for the last 36 years that Dane Tops was a man.
    So when she went to the mailbox dressed as a gay men in a trench coat, it was really a woman underneath? It makes some of the strange stories in her interviewer even stranger ! Bill, did you change the gender of some of the other people in the story?
    Yes, when she did all that stuff she was all the time a woman, in disguise. And yes, I was always careful to refer to Dane as 'him', to maintain the assumption and the planned misdirection.

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    It's interesting that Dane mentions NXIVM as being an offshoot of Scientology in a good way. Is that the same NXIVM as we are hearing so much about these days? Or is that a different offshoot? I do realize the interview was conducted ten years ago.

    If it is the same one in the news today, it apparently suffered the same fate as Scientology, by being subverted.
    I know literally almost nothing at all about NXIVM. But yes, subversion of groups like that is always possible, and maybe even likely. Knowing 'Dane', if she said back then (10 years ago come September)
    NXIVM came out of it [Scientology] and NXIVM is just fabulous, improving on some things in Scientology in several important ways
    ... my personal default would be to respect her informed opinion.

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    The founder of NXIVM, Keith Raneire was found recently to be recruiting women as sex slaves and is going to prison for a long time.

    That's why I say it perhaps started out well, but went south very quickly. As things often do unfortunately.

    I liked Dane from her interview very much.
    Last edited by Valerie Villars; 29th June 2019 at 21:45.
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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    So who was 'Dane Tops'?

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    Okay. I thought I had read every transcript on Project Camelot before finding my way to Avalon, but I either missed this one or forgot it in my marathon searching. So much of what this guy is saying is exactly the kind of remembering I had when my dna woke up. It's incredible. Every time I think I have heard it all, I find some new, mind blowing stuff.
    I'm about a third of the way in and can't recommend this transcript enough.
    I was in Scientology from 73 - 83, and practised outside of the church for decades after that. I try, but cannot finish, reading the interview because it is all speculation presented as fact. I'm well familiar with the myths of the effectiveness of Scientology presented here. The writing style is pure Hubbard, pointing to Tops' having been sufficiently overwhelmed by the (largely fictional) Hubbard persona so as to adopt it for himself. Yes, extraordinary things occasionally happened to practitioners but there were no standard, everyday miracles as claimed in the church PR. Hubbard kept trying, in vain, to produce the state of "clear" in somebody, and kept redefining it and adding techniques. I knew the "first real Clear," John McMaster, so declared in the 60s -- over 10 years after the claims of earlier "clears" from 1950 on. Tops' claim that the govt reversed Dianetics to create MK-ultra do not fit with Hubbard's own laim: that he was uncovering cases of brainwashing (he called it Pain Drug Hypnosis) from the beginning of his work in Dianetics. If I could read more I would comment more, but all I can say is Dane Tops, whoever he is, lacks credibility. I was in LA during the splinter movement, and I never heard of anyone like him with another name. The main people responsible for splintering Scientology were David May, John Zegel, and a few other's I'm sure I've forgotten about. I will answer any questions stemming from Tops' interview, but I don't have the patience to read it.

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    ... If I could read more I would comment more, but all I can say is Dane Tops, whoever he is, lacks credibility. I was in LA during the splinter movement, and I never heard of anyone like him with another name.
    This is just a quick clarification to note that Dane Tops has been revealed to be a woman, as discussed in posts further up the thread:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    The very neat thing here is that of course everyone, including the Church of Scientology, assumed without question for the last 36 years that Dane Tops was a man.
    So when she went to the mailbox dressed as a gay men in a trench coat, it was really a woman underneath? It makes some of the strange stories in her interviewer even stranger ! Bill, did you change the gender of some of the other people in the story?
    Yes, when she did all that stuff she was all the time a woman, in disguise. And yes, I was always careful to refer to Dane as 'him', to maintain the assumption and the planned misdirection.
    *I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night*

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Dane Tops was simply a person who didn't like the takeover of the Church of Scientology in the 80's and wrote a few letters. And that got the church pissed off, it is just another piece of history re this organization. I agree with a good amount of what she said but most of her views are simply her opinions and shouldn't be taken any further than that.

    That the gov't would want a valuable spiritual tech is a given. I doubt there is any religion or org worth a damn that hasn't been infiltrated by the powers that be.

    Bill's interview definitely forwarded the mystery of Dane Tops to new heights.

    Standard Scientology does work quite well and I and my many preclears can attest it works quite well. Miracles can occur and amazing realizations are just part of it.

    If one didn't get these kind of gains I don't think they were doing it standardly.

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    Default Re: Dane Tops: the Camelot Church of Scientology whistleblower

    Quote Posted by James Newell (here)
    Standard Scientology does work quite well and I and my many preclears can attest it works quite well. Miracles can occur and amazing realizations are just part of it. If one didn't get these kind of gains I don't think they were doing it standardly.
    My observation has been that "Standard Scientology" as practised before 1978 or so, did work quite well, but nowhere nearly as well as advertised, and led to psychological dependency for another and another and another session. Occasional "super powers" were a temporary, one-off of the type one might get in any other mystical practice. Standard Scientology as practised now in the Church of Scientology appears to do more damage than good, due to the emphasis on "confessionals" and Nazi-style management practices that outweigh whatever good can be achieved in the course room or session room.

    The much ballyhooed "Old OT levels" 4 - 7 did not produce permanent results for most people, did not produce super powers, so those who had money ended up doing the expensive "L" rundowns in search of those powers. Eventually in 1978 they introduced the "new OT levels," which do not even attempt to develop any so-called super powers, are strictly about erasing and other "negative gain." The history of Scientology is one of new promises and hype on top of previous failed promises, all the way back to 1950. If Hubbard were alive and vital today, the current program would have been scrapped and maybe a few new programs introduced with accompanying hype, wild claims and new false hope for new generations.
    Last edited by TomKat; 25th July 2019 at 12:23.

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