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Thread: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    This is the perfect place to start for anyone interested in Peterson. This interview is quite famous now; it's a master class in handling oneself with grace and wit under pressure. About 30 mins long. Must see:


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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Don Juan quotes from Castaneda
    I'm placing these here because I think they hint at and expand on what Mike is saying in this thread.

    "We have been trained to live and die meekly, following unnatural codes of behavior which soften us and make us lose that initial impulse, until our spirit is hardly noticeable. We are born as a result of a fight. By denying our basic tendencies, the society we live in eradicates the warring heritage that transforms us into magical beings."

    "For a warrior, to be harmonious is to flow, not to stop in the middle of the current and try to make a space of artificial and impossible peace. He knows that he can only give the very best of himself under conditions of maximum tension."

    "We are beings who are going to die. We were programmed to live like beasts, carrying loads of customs and other people’s beliefs until the very end; but we can change all that! The freedom which the warrior’s way offers us is within the reach of your hand; take advantage of it!"

    "The tragedy of today’s man is not his social condition, but the lack of will to change himself."

    "Sorcerers say that true rebellion, and humanity’s only way out as a species, is to stage a revolution against their own stupidity. As you can understand, this is solitary work."

    "Don Juan claimed that what limits human perception is timidity. To be able to manage the world which surrounds us, we have had to give up our perceptual gift; that is, the possibility of witnessing everything. We sacrifice the flight of awareness in exchange for the security of the known. We can live strong, audacious, healthy lives; we can be impeccable warriors; but we don’t dare!"

    "Take a risk! Get out of the trap of self-reflection and dare to perceive all that is humanly possible! A warrior of knowledge makes an effort to be authentic, and he won’t accept any compromises, because the object of his fight is total freedom."

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)
    I've observed parents over-protecting children, and knew the kids would someday have to face the "real world" and would not be so protected. However, there is wisdom in discrimination as we each exercise our own free will choice.

    It's natural to gravitate towards what resonates and go away from what doesn't or what feels harmful to your overall well-being.

    Sometimes sensitivity is misunderstood, even by the sensitive person. We need an awareness--a translator-- to read the information in the energy. Feelings hold intelligent information. If they are not denied, but contemplated, wisdom and direct information that is applicable to discern best decisions arise.

    At least, that's my perspective (and experience).

    MM


    OMG, you've addressed something vital here Michelle...

    I'm reading Jordan Peterson at the moment, and one of his "12 rules for life" is this: "do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them".

    The reason being...if this behavior is left unchecked, nobody will like them once they're out in the "real world". If your parents don't even like you, what chance do you have? Therefore, do the hard and uncomfortable disciplining yourself to save your kid a lifetime of problems.

    This is another example of choosing discomfort over safety. It's another example of choosing discipline over the risk of hurting feelings. It's ultimately better in every way. He is saying, have the courage to do the hard work and it will ultimately pay off.

    Parents these days don't want to hurt their kid's feelings. They want to be "cool" parents. They want to be liked. It just may be the downfall of civilization as we know it...and I don't think I'm being dramatic.
    I saw exactly that take place. Out of control, undisciplined kids, who "could do no wrong" in their parents eyes. Their behavior was horrible and they were hard to like individuals.

    One parent I called to tell her that her son choked a girl and got an F on his math test said to me: "What did you do to him? He was fine in church yesterday."

    No accountability. It was almost hilarious, as if I could do something to make him choke a girl-- or do poorly on his math test. A few times I told parents, I'm a teacher, not a babysitter. You come into class and make your child behave while I teach the kids that want to learn. I could be firm at times!

    There are both ends of the spectrum: over protective and under disciplined.

    If only common sense would prevail...

    MM
    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Quote A better approach to face ones fears would be to confront challenging, perceived or imagined dangers with help of coaches.
    With respect, I don't think this is possible. The training life gives you in all it's organic forms can't be recreated in a lab (metaphorically speaking)

    My friend, from my previous example, would not have the same toughness and fearlessness today if he had taken a karate class, for example.

    If I hadn't been unhealthy to the point of death, I wouldn't have read so much, learned to write effectively, or even developed an interest in the paranormal or conspiratorial ( I only read those books because I was unable to do anything else). I wouldn't be on Avalon, that's for sure.

    Life is tough, unbearable at times. But if you transcend these challenges, or at least attempt to, there is a real potential for positive transformation. Sometimes, without these challenges, the motivation doesn't even exist to improve oneself. So in this way, hiding or trying to hide from uncomfortable situations might actually cause one to miss some wonderful opportunities

    My suggestion to watch scary movies and violent youtube videos applies only if you are terrified of them. And watching them just might represent a very small (but important!) step on the way to emotional freedom. That may sound naive, but I'm stickin to it
    Last edited by Mike; 28th April 2018 at 01:42.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Quote "The tragedy of today’s man is not his social condition, but the lack of will to change himself."
    Absolutely awesome list Marcus. Thanks for posting brother! They're all so good, but I think I like this one best.

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Mike, thanks for the post. Definitely some important stuff you laid down there.

    That too sensitive, too safe thing is really a pandemic condition. And conditioning. It's gotten worse with the whole thing we see out there with the politics, and lies, and all... And the arts have suffered big time, with a mediocrity running through much of what gets to the public.

    Fear is interesting. (I remember ND Walsch in his first book talking about love and fear being the only things we're dealing with here.) Even deeper than confronting the bully is that other level of fear. It's that fear that seems to be all around us that sometimes permeates the atmosphere. What is that? Is that just the reality we have to deal with on this plane? Planet?

    I find myself exploring that. It's like a silent dumb friend who's always around. It's an illusion but we keep it strong, seemingly alive.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Thanks for chiming in, Caliban.
    Quote And the arts have suffered big time, with a mediocrity running through much of what gets to the public.
    Oh my, yes. Being courageous with oneself emotionally, not lying, tempering sensitivities etc....these are all character building suggestions, I think. When character gets eroded, art reflects that; bad art glorifies it, and good art attempts to undress it. But in a backwards world, good is bad and bad is good. Nobody knows who Vonnegut is anymore, but everyone knows who the Kardashians are.

    Good art is a bridge between this world and the next; it has a foot in both worlds. When that bridge is compromised, we become very distorted..emotionally, mentally, spiritually. It's what I'm attempting to address here in a round about way

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    Lightbulb Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 28th April 2018 at 12:43.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    My suggestion to watch scary movies and violent youtube videos applies only if you are terrified of them.
    Hey Mike. I totally agree that we are far better, far stronger for facing our fears and overcoming them, it's all part of the learning curve, part of the journey. For example, kids should not be wrapped up in cotton-wool to protect them from the big scary world. Discipline is essential. Restrictions, limitations. Teach them to depend on the self. Also they need to be let loose, to explore, see, feel, and take a bloody knee once in a while. They'd never make it otherwise.

    Yet, fear and sensitivity...[and how to define them]

    I count myself as sensitive, or as 'a' sensitive. I am extremely sensitive. But only to the world outside; inside I'm fine. What do I mean? I do not fear the world outside, I am merely repelled by it. Not that I get offended, per se. This is not about my vulnerability, insecurities, or self-esteem. It's about appetite, and empathy.

    I love a good horror movie, but that's just make-believe. The Thing, Alien, IT, Silence of the Lambs etc. These sorts of movies are great for simulating emotional reactions, but it's just simulation. And then you have Hostel for example... Flicks like that. I won't watch those, or anything that delights in cruelty and grotesquerie and excessive gore. That stuff is dark, and potentially damaging. And beyond that, you have the real thing, like, as you say, a girl getting beaten up in a YT video. And there are worse things to see out there.

    I wouldn't watch a girl getting beaten under any circumstances. I see no benefit in it. It would disgust and sadden me. If there's anything I fear, it's to become desensitized to this sort of stuff – and I argue, perhaps TPTB want to do that to us! To benumb empathy is to deaden and decay the soul. If I'm being over-sensitive, I'm okay with that. I'd rather nurture my empathy than risk disabling it.

    I hope I haven't missed the point of the thread, in a bit of a rush today.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe


    Jordan Peterson's power of concentration is phenomenal. His ability to separate the complexity of a question into parts on the fly and in front of millions watching, sold me. I just purchased his book.
    Thanks, Mike.
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    This is the perfect place to start for anyone interested in Peterson. This interview is quite famous now; it's a master class in handling oneself with grace and wit under pressure. About 30 mins long. Must see:

    Last edited by RunningDeer; 29th April 2018 at 16:20.

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    This is the perfect place to start for anyone interested in Peterson. This interview is quite famous now; it's a master class in handling oneself with grace and wit under pressure. About 30 mins long. Must see:

    I listened to the guy last night and he was pretty spot on with quite a few of his comments. He was getting grilled about not wanting to call a transgender Sir or Mam in connection to what gender they had transferred to. The reporter was all up in arms interviewing him and grilling him asking that he should be oh so worried about offending the transgendered individuals. And his answer was pretty cool in that it was pretty much summed up as "so what? you don't mind grilling me and offending me with your questions why are we so worried if someone gets offended if they are transgender?". I bring this up because there was a very similar point I was trying to make with you a few months back and you were getting pretty pissed with me it seemed.
    My only point I was trying to make was that I don't care if transgenders or what not get offended if I refuse to put them on a pedestal and acquiesce to their demands now being made on society.
    Sorry to bring it up now, but we rarely ever leave on such awkward terms as we did on that thread and I'm hoping Jordan's manner of phrasing this may make the sense to you that I was not capable of articulating.

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Hey Marcus, yep I recall us having a debate about all that. I think we were just getting our wires crossed a little. I agree with both Peterson and yourself on the point raised in your post(regarding the endless list of labels and pronouns the trans community wants us all to use) I'd have to go back and look at what I wrote specifically, but I think I was just imploring everyone not to demonize an entire group of people because of a few misguided activists. Also, i think you align with the religious right whereas I'm sort of in the middle somewhere. I think that's where we left it, right? But no man, I was never pissed!

    Peterson frequently stresses that he gets loads of support letters and emails from the trans community. He also stresses over n over that he's no transphobe...he just particularly resents the people calling themselves "activists" that claim to represent the whole trans community. They are the ones making the unreasonable demands, not the average trans person on the street. Etc etc etc.

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    So much of the problems people have with their children, going back a good 30 years or more, is a one size fits all attitude towards them. Parents have been told by professionals that all bad behavior is the result of fear.

    So the parent, rather than asserting their authority, with solid boundaries and appropriate discipline, casts about for answers to their child's fear. Much worse they do this with an edge of guilt. A guilty parent gives up their rightful place in the family hierarchy and allows their child to rule, essentially.

    Parents who are guilty will assuage their guilt with back-up-the-truck gift giving. In that case you have a child whose underlying problem isn't fear but aggression having his or her greed catered to as well.

    In no way is this healthy wise or proportionate-- even if the child is basically fearful and insecure.

    Some children are very sensitive but most aren't. They are sensitive to their desires (not wants) being obstructed. I feel for parents and children who are sensitive and kind being forced into situations where they have to conform to a deeply flawed and narcissistic culture.

    I would have home schooled my kids if I had had any.

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    DNA,

    I have watched a lot of Jordan Pererson and have to disagree with your take here. I believe he is happy to comply with a transgendered individual's desire to conform to one of the two genders that make it easier to navigate the social realm. What he objects to is the government imposing rules that broaden pronouns to several different categories, or conversely deny that there is even such a thing as biological gender.

    I have a close transgender friend, born a guy who desires to be called 'she' so that's what I do. She dresses in a feminine way, is beautiful in a feminine way, so of course I refer to her as "her." But if she or anybody else asked me to refer to them using one of several different pronouns I am not familiar with I would have a problem with that. It's not practical and the govt has no business interfering with what should be a natural process of language, be it evolving or remaining static.

    The whole 'self Identifying' thing where a person sees him or herself as a raccoon, a wolf or a different race altogether is nonsense. It dilutes the very real suffering and tragic history of those whose with a very basic underlying mismatch between a strongly masculine or feminine temperament and their biology.

    A person's 'physiology' is mind and brain working in tandem with body. Being feminine or masculine is part of common physiology where this coordinates well. It is a basic. If this doesn't happen smoothly it creates a deep problem. Very very few in the trans community want to be anything other than the opposite sex AND referred to, in that manner.

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Mike,

    I have the best story about a 'sensitive soul.' This was kind of a shocker for me. My partner and I met a fellow in a coffee shop one morning and asked him where he was from and vice versa. When I told him I had lived in a small town in Ontario at one time, he was totally confused about the place, had not heard of it. So I said, "oh, it's been in the news. Remember that front page story about the serial killer, happened last year? That's where I lived.

    The dude jumped out of his chair and yelled at me! "You have no idea what you just did to me and how words can kill!" He looked at us like WE were serial killers and slowly backed out of the coffee shop.

    Seriously. I was kind of embarrassed.

    Oh, and then there are the, "no empathy empaths". These people have to guard their advanced and highly evolved souls that come with TOO much empathy by wandering the social landscape like robots lest they be 'infected' with a virus of others emotions.

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Quote Posted by Elpis (here)
    I’ve been called sensitive, passionate, empathetic, strong and fearless. I look at all these attributes as positive. When facing a difficult situation my strength is always at my core. I suppose that is why I come across as being fearless.

    Sometimes I have to put fear on the back burner; waiting for some alone time where I can take my armor off and have a good cry. So yes, sometimes it does suck being sensitive.


    With Love ~
    Interesting. Bravery is not fearlessness. It's the ability to put it on the back burner for the greater good. Truly innate fearlessness is symptomatic. We need some of these types too, just not too many!

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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    The opposite end of the spectrum is desensitization.

    In my distant past, I have had to fight with my fists a few times - fights that did not end until a severe enough injury ended the fight. I know what it feels like. I have experienced it. Now, when I see physical beatings (videos, movies), enough adrenaline races through me to make my muscles twitch, and my stomach knot-up. I become physically "ill", and feel like hell for many hours afterwords (that's not a mental thing, it's an endocrine system and nervous system thing.)

    Is there some great life lesson or psychological advantage to me seeking out and watching beatings until (supposedly) I toughen myself up, and desensitize myself so it has no physiological effect on me to see beatings? Maybe in a Mad Max, hyper-aggressive, kill or be killed, world - but not in the (admittedly completely f'd-up) world I actually live in (where the bulk of violence is financial.)

    I'm convinced that there is an agenda of deliberate desensitization toward murder and mayhem in "first person shooter"-type video games. The military gains a huge advantage if the new recruits can already visualize themselves shooting "bad guys" (you know, like Muslims or Blacks or anti-war demonstrators), and wading through the blood and body parts, searching for more people to kill. Are these young "desktop warriors" confronting their fears, or are they being sorta MK ULTRA'd to desensitize the innate humanity and compassion out of them, and make them into lethal military tools?

    True, the world is not safe - never was, never will be, even if we are only dealing with nature. In any situation, "moving to safety" is an evolutionary tool for survival. Moving deliberately toward the un-safe is, well, that's what the "Darwin Awards" are all about.

    Since the opening post also contains truth, I suspect that a wise overview includes a balance - not either extreme.


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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    OMG Autumn, your story made me laugh! Thanks for sharing.

    I may not even have believed it had I not seen the same behavior myself.

    I once invited a friend of mine to accompany myself and a girlfriend to the movies (btw, this is the obnoxiously soft friend I referred to in an earlier post)

    The movie was "23" starring Jim Carrey. It's not a horror movie, but it is sort of a creepy thriller type of movie, with some Hitchcock elements sprinkled in.

    To be fair, I wasn't totally honest with him as to what the movie was about. I just told him Jim Carrey was in it; this made him think it was safe and watchable. I knew he was averse to scary stuff, but in my defense, at this point in time, I had no idea just how averse he was.

    Well, he had sort of a breakdown after watching the movie. He actually accused me of "ruining his life". That was his exact quote. He acted strangely for *weeks* after that! It was unbelievable!!!

    This is another example: OMG, it's simply unreal. So he and I went and saw the movie "MacGruber" in the movie theatre. It's a comedy starring Will Forte; it's a spoof on the 80's show "MacGyver". Its total silliness. It's campy caricature. There is nothing whatsoever threatening about it *at all*...

    ...well there's one scene where Macgruber sees the ghost of his now dead wife in the cemetery, and they have a little sexual romp. It's complete absurdity. Well this friend of mine lept from his seat and literally ran out of the theatre as that part was playing LOL. It was too much for him. Can you believe that??? I was speechless.
    Last edited by Mike; 28th April 2018 at 17:55.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Hey Dennis, that type of violence sickens me too. I hate it.

    But I still maintain that there may be some value in watching it; just like there's some value in watching old world war 2 holocaust footage, or seeing the dead bodies of those who have been murdered in brutal ways.

    I don't mean to say you should hunker down and make a night out of it...with a date and a bowl of popcorn And this isn't some sick, macabre, freak show type of suggestion..just to be clear.

    We're all capable of the worst. And it starts with small things. Lies, for example. One of the 12 rules in the Peterson book is 'don't lie'. Small lies run amok resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews in world war 2 Germany.

    We've gotten so intellectually and emotionally lazy as a species that, in my view, we need *dramatic* reminders of what all humans - including ourselves - are capable of if we let our character deteriorate to the point where we're sprinting out the movie "MacGruber" because of the sex-with-the-dead-wife's-ghost scene(please see my previous post if I've lost you there)

    Balance is another issue I'd like to discuss, so I appreciate you bringing up 'desensitization' as well. But I have to go to work now, so feel free to take the baton from here
    Last edited by Mike; 28th April 2018 at 18:58.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too Sensitive, Too Safe

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    The dude jumped out of his chair and yelled at me! "You have no idea what you just did to me and how words can kill!" He looked at us like WE were serial killers and slowly backed out of the coffee shop.
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Well, he had sort of a breakdown after watching the movie. He actually accused me of "ruining his life". That was his exact quote. He acted strangely for *weeks* after that! It was unbelievable!!!
    A footnote here, though it's an important one. And it'll surely be obvious and well-known to anyone following the thread.

    There's a world (a universe!) of difference between
    • Reacting to something externally (through sensitivity), losing control, and blaming others for 'doing it to them'
    and
    • Reacting to something internally, taking responsibility for it, and realizing that there's a great new opportunity for increased growth and awareness.

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