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Thread: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    My only thought really, is to take away the fear associated, by some, with death and reincarnation.
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Thanks so much everyone once again for contributing your insights!

    The way I see it, many of us here agree that there's no need to 'escape' this life, because this 3D Earth journey is about learning & evolving spiritually, and ultimately pain/suffering is a choice (decided by one's own mind). If you think that I've misinterpreted, please correct me.

    Now, I'm all for positive thinking and against self-victimization, but to think that there's nothing absurd about this 3D reality we're living in is to me kinda, well, absurd. Pain & objective sufferings are everywhere on our planet, represented in all kinds of forms around us (war, sickness, hunger, various physical pains, loved ones' deaths, abusive relationships, etc...). According to John Panella, in his books, we, as souls, entered this reality in human shells to experience a dying process/death process, from the day we were born as babies to the day we physically die. The so-called 'life' is nothing but a journey to the 'death', at least physically. The Buddha himself also said 'life is suffering' or 'life is never satisfactory', which I'm sure many of us here could agree with, especially the second phrase.

    No matter how hard you try to live this 'life', you're never gonna feel 100% satisfied/contended/enough/whole. Our human mind/ego was designed that way. That's also why we need to meditate, which is an unnatural practice (meaning: our human mind wasn't created originally to meditate, IMO, but at the same time ironically, meditation seems to be the only solution).

    So, my questions from my previous post remains:

    1. If this 3D reality is simply just like a school, where souls learn to evolve, then why is our memory of previous lifetimes all erased!? It's like whoever is running this school, he doesn't want us to remember our previously learnt lessons. He doesn't want us to graduate. Anyone has an answer to this?

    2. Also, scientists nowadays agree that the human senses can only perceive 4% of this universe. Many animals (flies, bees, eagles, dolphins...) have better senses than we do. We humans in fact have hidden senses (one example: third eye, located in the middle of our forehead) and can only activate them through some certain types of practice (I have personally experienced this, and whoever here has also experienced it, will definitely understand what I'm saying). So yeah if you asked me, I'd say these highly limited human shells were designed to block us, to prevent us from perceiving what's really out there. Does this look like a 'trap' to you?

    3. My original question: is there any way for us to end this endless cycle of reincarnation? (beside Wes Penre's Tunnel of Light solution, and meditating, as many of us here have suggested).

    I look forward to hearing from everyone here. Thank you all so much once again!!

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    Avalon Member Omni's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by woomap (here)
    Now, I'm all for positive thinking and against self-victimization, but to think that there's nothing absurd about this 3D reality we're living in is to me kinda, well, absurd.
    From what I could tell nobody is saying there isn't anything absurd. Especially not myself. However I am saying that this planet is our home, not a reincarnation trap.
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    @ Morning Fox - Yes we can say we believe reincarnation exists. As a belief. However, a closer inspection of the Eastern literature tells us that many people have seen the reality of it. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a good starting point. The Tibetans, with gobs and gobs of time to explore, have charted the unseen realms over time. They have a death process that can only be done by a highly realized person. In this process they have discovered that one's consciousness goes through several states during the death process and reemerges in what they call the bardo. Where one resides between lifetimes. Then it is on to another body. The Tibetans (and others to be sure) know all there is to know concerning things in the unseen world. Their knowledge far surpasses anything known in the West. As for me, I wish to learn from these sages so I won't repeat the countless mistakes made by so many.

    To an awakened person who is fully awake, there is no reincarnation. Awakening takes one beyond that.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    I think the reason for the memory thing is that the totality of us cannot fit into this incarnation. Yet all parts are accessible with the right key.

    Reincarnation as a soul trap is not something I ascribe to either. I think we intend to reincarnate but we continually overestimate the damnable container we cram ourselves into. Too much is lost with each trip, so we tweak the experience, the particulars, each time hoping this time we might remember.

    But it is always there, fully accessible - it must be because it is the missing portions of ourselves. The shadow, as it is called, represents some of the missing pieces as we constantly discard portions of ourselves we don't understand or find distasteful. The shadow points to that thing called the "real" you. It is only shadow because we rid it of light, preferring to ignore and deny this unwanted portion of self.

    So, another way to "break the cycle" is to do shadow work. In reality, the shadow is the other, the thing not you, as you know yourself to be in this incarnation. It would be a magnificent moment of discovery to realize that the thing that is you is so actually infinitely brilliant! But that would take the work of a monk to uncover. Pertinent bits can be accessed with reasonable effort. (I do not mean you as in personally you but in the general sense of any "you".)

    But the best way to end the cycle is to love. Love with all your heart this life, this reality. And be certain of the majesty of our Creator.
    Why Not?

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    Avalon Member Omni's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    I think the reason for the memory thing is that the totality of us cannot fit into this incarnation. Yet all parts are accessible with the right key.
    I disagree. The idea of losing memory being an evil mechanic is a distortion of the truth and part of new age psyop. We lose memory each incarnation because of the relativity of the universe's design. It is actually a perfect design that accounts for things like soul mates, aspects of a person's soul and identity, personality progress, the chance to reset your brainwashing, the relativity of growth and being young to old, an incarnation history, the chance to be with different people in different lifetimes and find a soul mate, the reset of knowledge in the brain which makes the universe brand new again next lifetime (which makes it really interesting again if that had been lost).

    The natural laws of the universe cannot be broken, and there are natural laws of the universe that age a body. Yes it is also a possible to prolong or stall this with frequency science but the natural laws also dictate genetic scientific laws which inherently give advanced races a blueprint for proper behavior (based on what it does objectively, both detrimental or positive to genetics and/or soul).

    There are hundreds of reasons for the current model of losing memory. I can only name a small amount. I feel this psyop may be about making people discontent with the universe and their reality. The psychological aspects of the belief would indicate the truth.
    Last edited by Omni; 20th May 2018 at 07:13. Reason: missing word
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by woomap (here)
    1. If this 3D reality is simply just like a school, where souls learn to evolve, then why is our memory of previous lifetimes all erased!? It's like whoever is running this school, he doesn't want us to remember our previously learnt lessons. He doesn't want us to graduate. Anyone has an answer to this?
    Because if you'd be fully cognizant of your previous lifetimes, and would be aware of the lessons that you needed to learn in this lifetime, then those lessons wouldn't be learned with true sincerety. Instead, you'd learn them for selfish reasons, and solely because you'd know that you'd personally benefit from doing so. You wouldn't, for instance, be kind and loving towards animals because you would intrinsically, in your heart, feel that that's how you should treat animals, but you'd be kind and loving towards animals because you'd know that you'd receive personal gain from behaving that way. And that's not a genuine learning process. Those aren't lessons learned from the heart or from love. In fact, you haven't actually learned a thing.

    It's like having an important exam in school and being handed all the exam's questions beforehand, in which case all you have to do is study just the answers to those specific questions to get an A+. Resulting in an A+ that doesn't actually mean a thing, and that doesn't in any way prove that you have properly studied and have thus come to understand the subject.

    That's why you enter this life as a blank canvas, so to speak. Only by making conscious decisions in this lifetime on how you want to live your life, how you want to behave and how you want to treat others, based on what you feel is the right thing rather than already knowing it, is how your soul will learn, grow and evolve.

    Of course, anyone is more than free to disagree with me or see it differently, but this is simply how I have come to understand the purpose of life after years of study. I hope it helps
    Last edited by Rhah; 17th May 2018 at 23:09.

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    I think the reason for the memory thing is that the totality of us cannot fit into this incarnation. Yet all parts are accessible with the right key.

    Reincarnation as a soul trap is not something I ascribe to either. I think we intend to reincarnate but we continually overestimate the damnable container we cram ourselves into. Too much is lost with each trip, so we tweak the experience, the particulars, each time hoping this time we might remember.

    But it is always there, fully accessible - it must be because it is the missing portions of ourselves. The shadow, as it is called, represents some of the missing pieces as we constantly discard portions of ourselves we don't understand or find distasteful. The shadow points to that thing called the "real" you. It is only shadow because we rid it of light, preferring to ignore and deny this unwanted portion of self.

    So, another way to "break the cycle" is to do shadow work. In reality, the shadow is the other, the thing not you, as you know yourself to be in this incarnation. It would be a magnificent moment of discovery to realize that the thing that is you is so actually infinitely brilliant! But that would take the work of a monk to uncover. Pertinent bits can be accessed with reasonable effort. (I do not mean you as in personally you but in the general sense of any "you".)

    But the best way to end the cycle is to love. Love with all your heart this life, this reality. And be certain of the majesty of our Creator.
    Ernie, I have to say I agree with all you said. And it was beautifully said. The part about cramming yourself into this body really resonated. But, even that can be transcended. And it is all there and accessible. It's really simple if you think about it.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""When a society is afraid of it's poets, it is afraid of itself." Lenore Kandel

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?


    Life can be that dream, cleared from traps, given the means.
    As some find comfortable situations while most cannot.
    The incarnate controllers, love blinders, on the stage of life.
    While the eugenic musical chairs, entrain the multitudes.
    We are welcomed, taking comfort, in various relaxed platitudes,
    Reciting convivial teachings, of the blessed ones, on the couch.
    The energetic, might rather step up, to see what they can see.
    Sneak behind the veil, wake up beyond the fazed burlesque.
    See these other venues, freshly available, in the here and now.
    OCt 2018: Not counting my own humbler ideas, most of my better references are to be found on
    http://laurency.com and [url]http://www.hylozoik.se/english/english.htm

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    I no longer know what it is but it is ever more an established fact that this world is a mask that has been pulled over our heads - it masks a reality that we have a right to and that we must fight to retake and reclaim. More likely it is mostly a fabrication of our own willful making perhaps helped along by outside nefarious forces.

    I do not think we come here for lessons because what is there that love needs to learn? There is love and there is the yearning for love, nothing more. All the shades of grey have been created by minds confused of their source. They believe they are little minds amongst many little minds separated by a vast chasm of ignorant, insolent, loneliness that can never be traversed.

    I don't believe that.

    I believe where we come from, our home, is a place of, for us now, unimaginable beauty. A place where all residents are respected, uplifted, enabled to soar to their fullest potential. Where we come from there is no "them", no outcasts, no enemy. We are respected and trusted throughout the universe. Many come just to gaze at the greatness of our creations or learn of new advances and abilities. And we are legion! So many souls...

    Something has gotten in the way of this remembering.
    Why Not?

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    The direct analogy is living a day, ending that day, going to sleep, and waking up again to a new day... BUT, with amnesia.

    Here's the question, then.

    Why would anyone not want to live another day?

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Tibetan Book of the Dead is a great starting point, though being folklorish and not literally true. The basic pattern and process is true, but not all the details.

    The actual Mahayana Path has nothing to do with escaping the cycle or avoiding reincarnation. Total opposite. The intention is to bring the Perfected Nature into manifestation or incarnation, and purify infinite realms. One transcends the default, unconscious transmigrations and gains control over them. In a sense, this removes one from the "automatic" cycle, but one continues working within it. This idea may not appeal to all, as it is quite difficult and literally endless.

    Having said that, the older concept of Moksha or liberation from the cycle is not evil; it cannot proceed by evil means. One may proceed that way with no argument from me, however, I go more with the question: How can I make more and better incarnations?

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The direct analogy is living a day, ending that day, going to sleep, and waking up again to a new day... BUT, with amnesia.

    Here's the question, then.

    Why would anyone not want to live another day?
    That's it exactly Bill! How much I admire you for your dedication.You're the best. Really.
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The direct analogy is living a day, ending that day, going to sleep, and waking up again to a new day... BUT, with amnesia.

    Here's the question, then.

    Why would anyone not want to live another day?
    They live another day under a new lifetime where they can discover the whole universe again. The "amnesia" is not an evil mechanic IMO. It is a component of a perfect universal design.

    Also, someone who just lost their soul mate may not want to live another day.
    Last edited by Omni; 18th May 2018 at 03:22.
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    After a few years of searching, studying and practicing certain modalities, I have discovered details that seem to be the same and sort of form a foundation of truth, at least for me about karma and reincarnation.
    For example, In Falun Dafa/ Falun Gong, which is supposed to be one of the founding Chi-gong practices, most pure and ancient, one of the "side effects" of the practice is to burn karma faster in that lifetime and not take in new karma. By spinning the law wheel daily, it is said to burn karma vey fast. I have practiced Falun Gong for a few months, I have no clue if I burned karma faster but it sure was great for clearing up the energetic body.
    I started a thread about a book I read about Jesus's grandmother Anna. She talks about how they practiced being in their " I Am" inner space. How it purified their souls and assured a conscious death. By that she meant having achieved perfection in a lifetime and not having to come back if they chose so.
    If any of you follow Mooji, Papaji, whom all follow Sri Ramana Maharshi, the modality also mentions about how it can remove karma efficiently and so die consciously like Maharshi seemingly did.
    I can say that my Falun Dafa practice was the begining of understanding all this, but I was very much still in my ego and so I did not reap all benefits of karma burning for sure.
    Now, I regularly use the self inquiry technique from Marharshi as well as the invitation technique from Mooji and THAT has been my salvation ...
    I now can just be all that is, be something other than my persona whom is attached to the mind,emotions and ego.
    I can create this space between my emotions and "I".
    Or "I and I" as Bob Marley would say!
    This has changed everything, now, syncronicities abound, perfect timings, gifts from everywhere, always out of the blue and totally unexpected...

    As far as I am concerned, Falun Dafa basics, Anna and the Essenes, Jesus, Sri Ramana, Mooji, Papaji and I am sure many more that I have not yet discovered, all point to the same truth.

    It all makes sense now.
    When you can just be the spirit that you are, the thing that makes your heart beat, " the self ", that "I am" presence, you extract yourself from the ego that creates karma in the first place...
    I have learned that you can't be that 24/7, but I go there as much as I can, everyday, even if its just 5 minutes.
    It makes all the difference.

    Now I tell people, this is my last life here....
    hehe
    I have no clue, other than when I am in that space, its all very clear to me.
    :-)

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Why would anyone not want to live another day?[/I]
    To up the ante the question posed.

    CHOICE: Why would anyone not want to live another day?

    RANDOM: Why would anyone not want to live another day (under any circumstance)?

    Random or choice? That opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Man, I love this topic, even though it's like a needle stuck on a record groove here at Camp Avalon... it's still tres groovy...

    There's a channeling that the "Shiny Show" gals did (on their YT channel), supposedly of the chief honcho him/her self, the Creator. Anyway, She says She was so dismayed watching things play out She asked the spirits "do you want to stop this reincarnation game?" The answer was a resounding, "Hell, no!!" (uh, heaven, no?)

    So maybe the "game" looks a whole lot different from over there. And think about it, we're probably part of some "higher self" or soul group (or whichever) and what we are now is only a little sliver of who we really are. And so on. Maybe we all came here to remember, hey wherever I am, heaven is. Sure, there's pain and sometimes things suck, but what if I could find the bliss and ecstasy in every... moment/hour/day... ?

    Who re-incarnates, after all?

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    I prefer slight recall, so we can keep the stresses off ourselves while alive... at the same time we punch up the stress levels from/in the life lived. It's that thing about only getting as much as you can handle, and if you can handle more, well..it gets piled on.

    But that is a thing that comes in time...
    Last edited by Carmody; 18th May 2018 at 02:46.
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Wow, what a great collection of thoughts. Thank you everyone for sharing.

    I also recommend Robert Schwartz's two books: Your Soul's Plan and Your Soul's Gift. They are inspiring and amazing. One of the chapters explains how even things like rape can be chosen by a soul, and how it contributes to its balancing and growth.

    I think people are born for different reasons, to learn different things, to complete different missions. In general I think there is a progression or evolution for souls. The universe as a whole is always evolving, as are it's holographic components (like us). I wouldn't be surprised if the whole physical universe was one cell in the body of an orgasming human. It's pretty healthy and fun to think those sort of mind-expanding thoughts.

    What do you want to do with your life? I studied metaphysical questions deeply, but my studies were mostly motivated by pain in my own heart. A part of my didn't want to live, and wanted to know why it was worth it. My solution and path has been to feel that pain, and allow life to flow again.

    I like the advice to build a life that you want to live. Be a person you'd like to know and trust. Be the best you can be.

    I think it's important to be aware of the games and traps, if only to raise the collective consciousness and avoid harm when you can. But if you think all of life is a trap, you're living with dark glasses. If this is a matrix (and I think that metaphor is pretty useful and accurate), the flowers still like to talk to me. There is a greater loving intelligence here that makes it all worth it. And that I find in nature, in my own heart, in the orgasm of those I love.

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    United States Avalon Member Jad's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    This is one of my favorite topics of discussion. In fact, that’s why I am very grateful to be a member of this forum since none of my friends or family are even remotely interested in such topics. My opinion about this has always been changing as I continue to learn more about it. Here is how I look at it now:

    1- We as humans tend to accept the fact that we are spirits/souls.. but what is that really? The way I choose to understand it is that we are simply awareness first, then insert any description you want after that. That description wether it is spirit, human, alien, animal, etc.. is the content. So we have an awareness identifying itself with content and interacting with itself within it.

    2- I don’t think of this whole life on earth as a learning system at all. I see it more like a virtual video game called reality where we get immersed in our identity and believe it is really who we are. What makes us happy or sad? The content in our life. If you watch a dramatic movie with a sad ending, maybe you will get sad for a bit, but you will move on cause you know it’s just a story. Guess what? All the countless lives on this planet are stories interacting with other stories ! The only difference is that we are not watching it in a movie theatre because we are actually inside the movie itself! That’s why it’s harder for us to realize that we are simply living within a story.

    3- What is Love? ( Lady don’t hurt me! 😂 😂 sorry I couldn’t resist putting this here!)
    It’s the unbiased and equal awareness of the connectedness of all things no matter what the content is . That’s why when we have a mystical experience, we feel connected with the whole universe because we stop identifying with our little personal story and start identifying with a much bigger one so we feel love for everything and everyone because we expanded our identity to include everyone.

    4- So what is reincarnation all about then? It’s just another story that we need to transcend. How to transcend it? By expanding our awareness and seeing the interconnectedness of everything. We achieve that by being honest and loving to everyone and everything we interact with. This is much easier said than done, but if we are able to do that then we will get back the child like wonder that we lost long time ago because that’s our only ticket out of this mess. ( just my personal opinion).

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