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Thread: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Another consideration is genes ---the traits of the forefathers--they reincarnate through you via genes.
    How to get out of reincarnation.
    Stop believing the story of the "me"
    Ego basically is a separation device and as long as separation is believed in we reincarnate.

    When ego is transcended then reincarnation is done with--you have graduated.
    Its not about what you have read or who said what.
    The ego will keep you chasing all kinds of ideas--you are not an idea--you are the eternal one Self.
    Mother Teresa, whan asked how she could work with lepers, said "I see them as Christ in disguise"

    You are the One consciousness in disguise as a person
    When you get that, no further incarnations.
    All the rest is story telling.

    Chris
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    As entertaining pondering this idea is, the truth is nobody here knows any better then anyone alse, and we have no idea how to obtain that knowledge. But have a nice day

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by enigma3 (here)
    @ Morning Fox - Yes we can say we believe reincarnation exists. As a belief. However, a closer inspection of the Eastern literature tells us that many people have seen the reality of it. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a good starting point. The Tibetans, with gobs and gobs of time to explore, have charted the unseen realms over time. They have a death process that can only be done by a highly realized person. In this process they have discovered that one's consciousness goes through several states during the death process and reemerges in what they call the bardo. Where one resides between lifetimes. Then it is on to another body. The Tibetans (and others to be sure) know all there is to know concerning things in the unseen world. Their knowledge far surpasses anything known in the West. As for me, I wish to learn from these sages so I won't repeat the countless mistakes made by so many.

    To an awakened person who is fully awake, there is no reincarnation. Awakening takes one beyond that.
    It may be that many people have seen the reality of it, but firstly that is their reality and not yours, and it is certainly only your belief if you're just going by what someone else has experienced.

    I'm just weary of how often people on this forum speak of things as fact rather than simply admitting that it's just their belief.

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by airaspect (here)
    As entertaining pondering this idea is, the truth is nobody here knows any better then anyone alse, and we have no idea how to obtain that knowledge. But have a nice day
    I might not know but I know some one who does. LOL
    The evidence of first hand knowledge from mystics.
    Bear in mind that mystics in meditation saw the structure of the atom long before scientist did.

    Chris
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Reduce any question about spirituality to" Whats the purpose?"
    Why the hours spent in meditation and all that goes with the search?
    The search for what?
    Through the process "persona;"
    vibration rises.
    Realization of Self can occur.
    Through out thousands of years Mystics have stated the reason for the search is to escape the cycle of reincarnation.
    They have.

    Chris
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    The relative self and reincarnation - Bob Thurman

    A conversation with Bob Thurman on non-duality, emptiness, and the true nature of the self. A recognized worldwide authority on religion and spirituality, asian history, world philosophy, buddhist science, Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and his Holiness the Dalai Lama, Robert Thurman is an eloquent advocate of the relevance of buddhist ideas in our daily lives.

    One point of view!!
    Im not of any religion
    Chris


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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Great perspectives on this topic!
    How about this thesis:
    Long time ago, beings knew everything there is to know and had the bright idea to create some new challenges.
    So they created puzzles and traps to entertain and have games. Unfortunately this backfired as beings created more tougher and challenging traps.
    On that prolonged course beings collected "karma" for which often responsibility was shunned and with that amnesia commenced.
    With amnesisa in place everything had to be learned again in each live time.

    While traps by some other beings may be overcome after the body dies, the "karma" and "non-responsibility" is still in place which sucks the person right back into a new baby body.
    So - one need to clear oneself from "karma" and "non-responsibility". A possible way would be practizing ho-oponopono which Herve reminded me in this post.
    "The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but to reveal to him his own."
    -- Benjamin Disraeli

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    You are the One consciousness in disguise as a person
    When you get that, no further incarnations.
    All the rest is story telling.
    Chris
    It's not as simple as all that -- in my belief system I hasten to stress -- . I know what you know (right now), that we are consciousness, we are One. And what I know and what you know (right now) is but a tiny tiny fraction of what we knew then, before we incarnated. We can have no new revelations here on earth that we don't already know very well when we're in the 'ALL' between lives. We already know so much more: all the mysteries we baffle ourselves over whilst in the flesh body. We know it all! But we still incarnated.

    Because it's about learning lessons down here in the mud. It's about refining, cleansing and purging. It's about buffing the stone (of the soul) into diamond. That's why we come. Why we must. And it's about helping others on the path do the same. It's virtually impossible to do all that in a single life, in a single body, as a single sex, living in a single place, speaking a single language, experiencing a single culture, etc etc. Not to mention karma as a factor, which can also bring us back (if we err). And there's so much more involved.

    My take on it, for what it's worth.

    cheers
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    With the Tibetans there is not a whit of belief. What they write about is only experienced based. The literature is somewhat ponderous to navigate, but the teachings of what is regarding reincarnation is there. They have even charted the various stages of the dying process and entry into the bardo in great detail.

    One of the teachings states that when a highly realized lama dies the body shrinks after death. Sometimes to only hair and fingernails, sometimes to a small body that is left. Also, a highly realized lama will enter a state called tukdam after death. Here the body does not go into rigor mortis but remains soft and worm. especially around the heart. There is a book about the death of the 16th Karmapa that is fascinating. Sorry, I don't remember the title. The book tells the story of his death from cancer in a Cleveland hospital. He left explicit instructions not to touch his body for three days after his death. Lots of corroboration to this story from those nurses and doctors who attended him. He went into tukdam for 3 days. His body did not rot and his heart area remained warm. After three days the tukdam ceased and he was placed in a casket for transport back to India. On opening the casket in India his body had shrunk by over half during the journey. One is left with the clear impression that the 16th Karmapa died as an example to Westerners of what the death process actually is for a highly realized human. A most remarkable story.

    In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.

    Also, there is no control gained over the process. Remember, there is no "I" who would control anything. There is, then, an intuitive realization that THAT which is one (God) simply continuously creates. Continuous creation with love in the realm of the senses. When one recognizes this as a constant stream and jumps into the stream, awakening occurs and reincarnation falls away. All who have made the jump and have chosen to write about it do not miss their personal "I" with its attended "story" at all. The pitifully small "I" is replaced with an all encompassing blend of love and intuitive knowing. Which the Tibetans call compassion.

    The unseen realm is vast yet that which happens there affects all of us deeply. The Tibetans know this unseen realm intimately. This knowing comes through the intuition. The most positive means of "knowing". I choose to learn from their experience.
    Last edited by enigma3; 18th May 2018 at 15:15.

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)

    It's not as simple as all that -- in my belief system I hasten to stress -- . I know what you know (right now), that we are consciousness, we are One. And what I know and what you know (right now) is but a tiny tiny fraction of what we knew then, before we incarnated. We can have no new revelations here on earth that we don't already know very well when we're in the 'ALL' between lives. We already know so much more: all the mysteries we baffle ourselves over whilst in the flesh body. We know it all! But we still incarnated.

    Because it's about learning lessons down here in the mud. It's about refining, cleansing and purging. It's about buffing the stone (of the soul) into diamond. That's why we come. Why we must. And it's about helping others on the path do the same. It's virtually impossible to do all that in a single life, in a single body, as a single sex, living in a single place, speaking a single language, experiencing a single culture, etc etc. Not to mention karma as a factor, which can also bring us back (if we err). And there's so much more involved.
    If we 'know it all' in the afterlife then what is the point of incarnating to learn lessons? I'm not trying to be difficult but you seem to contradict yourself.

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by enigma3 (here)
    In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.
    I apologise for being the difficult one here today but of course it's a belief. You believe their accounts. You haven't experienced it yourself. You believe them, so it is nothing more than a belief.

    Best wishes.
    Last edited by MorningFox; 18th May 2018 at 15:36.

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by enigma3 (here)
    With the Tibetans there is not a whit of belief. What they write about is only experienced based. The literature is somewhat ponderous to navigate, but the teachings of what is regarding reincarnation is there. They have even charted the various stages of the dying process and entry into the bardo in great detail.

    One of the teachings states that when a highly realized lama dies the body shrinks after death. Sometimes to only hair and fingernails, sometimes to a small body that is left. Also, a highly realized lama will enter a state called tukdam after death. Here the body does not go into rigor mortis but remains soft and worm. especially around the heart. There is a book about the death of the 16th Karmapa that is fascinating. Sorry, I don't remember the title. The book tells the story of his death from cancer in a Cleveland hospital. He left explicit instructions not to touch his body for three days after his death. Lots of corroboration to this story from those nurses and doctors who attended him. He went into tukdam for 3 days. His body did not rot and his heart area remained warm. After three days the tukdam ceased and he was placed in a casket for transport back to India. On opening the casket in India his body had shrunk by over half during the journey. One is left with the clear impression that the 16th Karmapa died as an example to Westerners of what the death process actually is for a highly realized human. A most remarkable story.

    In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.

    Also, there is no control gained over the process. Remember, there is no "I" who would control anything. There is, then, an intuitive realization that THAT which is one (God) simply continuously creates. Continuous creation with love in the realm of the senses. When one recognizes this as a constant stream and jumps into the stream, awakening occurs and reincarnation falls away. All who have made the jump and have chosen to write about it do not miss their personal "I" with its attended "story" at all. The pitifully small "I" is replaced with an all encompassing blend of love and intuitive knowing. Which the Tibetans call compassion.

    The unseen realm is vast yet that which happens there affects all of us deeply. The Tibetans know this unseen realm intimately. This knowing comes through the intuition. The most positive means of "knowing". I choose to learn from their experience.
    For the sake of discussion anf not saying Im right.
    In my uderstanding
    One ness --is not in need of improvement.
    One without a second ---there is no subject no object---
    The person can do all of the things you suggest and as you point out that takes many life times in Maya.
    The path gets narrower and narrower eventually there is the realization that while the striving etc was necessary at the time, it does not actually achieve Self Realization--
    enlightenment--it does raise the spiritual vibration within the confines of restricted consciousness.
    Its not an easy task.

    Life times are perhaps gone through in a process of elimination--neity neity --not this not this.
    The only thing that can be agreed upon is that I exist.
    Who is this I?
    Can it be improved upon?
    It witnesses improvement within the person but am I the person?
    Anything subject to change is not eternal is not the Truth

    Have you read "I am That" by Nisargadatta?
    The Truth lies within the pages of that book or any book about Ramana Maharshi and many many other--all saying the same thing--one consciousness one soul.
    The Bible--God became all that is without diminishing Himself--I am that I am.

    Is anything exterior needed to know that I exist?
    Self realization is exactly that the misunderstandings fall aside to reveal the One Self.

    Im not trying to convince anyone.
    Just saying what I believe to be so.

    Chris

    Nasargadatta quote

    If you seek reality you must set yourself free of all backgrounds, of all cultures, of all patterns of thinking and feeling. Even the idea of being man or woman, or even human should be discarded. The ocean of life contains all, not only humans. So, first of all abandon all self-identification, stop thinking of yourself as such-and-such or so-and-so, this or that. Abandon all self-concern, worry not about your welfare, material or spiritual, abandon every desire, gross or subtle, stop thinking of achievement of any kind. You are complete here and now, you need absolutely nothing.

    http://www.azquotes.com/author/17650...adatta_Maharaj
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    If we 'know it all' in the afterlife then what is the point of incarnating to learn lessons?
    To put ourselves to the test. Our minds are full of everything we have learned when we graduate university. But that's not the end at all. In fact, our journey has only just begun.

    I was being a tad trite when I said 'we know it all' before we incarnate. I should've said we have everything we need to equip us for our time on this level.

    But there are many other levels above this one, which we are yet to glimpse, and to glimpse them we have to travel the learning curve. That's what drives us. It's the same in our physical lives - we want to better ourselves while we're here, improve our prospects, and expand our horizons. It's very much "as above, so below" and vice versa. Michael Newton's book series starting with "Journey of the Soul" lays it out really well.

    With each new (vibrational) level attained comes a new set of adventures and possibilities. This Earth is just one and a small one at that.

    But in summary, 'knowing' is one thing, putting to the test what we know is very much another.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    If we 'know it all' in the afterlife then what is the point of incarnating to learn lessons?
    To put ourselves to the test. Our minds are full of everything we have learned when we graduate university. But that's not the end at all. In fact, our journey has only just begun.

    I was being a tad trite when I said 'we know it all' before we incarnate. I should've said we have everything we need to equip us for our time on this level.

    But there are many other levels above this one, which we are yet to glimpse, and to glimpse them we have to travel the learning curve. That's what drives us. It's the same in our physical lives - we want to better ourselves while we're here, improve our prospects, and expand our horizons. It's very much "as above, so below" and vice versa. Michael Newton's book series starting with "Journey of the Soul" lays it out really well.

    With each new (vibrational) level attained comes a new set of adventures and possibilities. This Earth is just one and a small one at that.

    But in summary, 'knowing' is one thing, putting to the test what we know is very much another.
    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.

    That's TS Eliot. And I think he was right. I don't think there are "many levels above us," unless you mean the Us that are the little minds inside these little bodies right now. Learning is all remembering.

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Amnesia.
    Or have you forgotten?

    Is no signature, a signature? Sincerely, 'Nobody'. :-)

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    I think we might limit, because of our own limitations, the idea of Totality. If we are all One then there is only one. No matter what else this is the base of reality. If so, then when we are in the "All", between lives, as Star Mariner pointed out, we are The One, totality. I think we consider this as a concept instead of understanding that this is the only actual or absolute context. It is the ground of being. The personal awareness of the little me is, according to many traditions, the gift of the Creator or the mystery of life. But when we shed the body the mystery becomes known in the totality of All. We each are The One, that is a concept. There is only The One, is the only true context.

    It's a brain buster, for sure.

    But the heart seems to know easy enough...
    Why Not?

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    We only remember what we need to remember in any particular point in time.

    Do you understand this?

    The person you were hundred lifetimes ago was not same person you are now, even though that life remains as a part of you.

    You are not ultimately person the with this name, identity, upbringing and experiences that you have had in your current life.

    The person you think you are is your garment. You don't have to remember the past to know what you are.

    You are Consciousness which is eternal.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    I believe in the evolution of the soul. I believe we are here to learn from all our life experiences. Iím not sure that we actually choose how or when we will incarnate or that we choose the family to incarnate to. I tend to believe that is chosen for us. I also donít necessarily believe when we do reincarnate that it is in the future. I believe once our souls leave these bodies awareness expands and it enters back into the pool of consciousness from which it came.

    I read once that death was like taking off a pair of shoes that were way too tight.

    A little side note ~ I donít think I have shared this here before but if I have, forgive me.

    As a child, on each birthday before blowing out the candles on my cake, I would wish for a white horse with wings.

    During a past life regression in my vision I was back during the Revolutionary War. I was a young American Indian woman with a husband and small son. I was washing clothes by the river while my son was playing next to me. The soldiers came and killed my entire village, including my husband and son. Just as I was being murdered, lying on my back looking up to the sky, I saw my husband and child waiting for my spirit to join them as they sat above on a white horse with wings.

    I hadnít thought about that birthday wish in years. It all seemed to make sense to me after that. I have to say, I have no American Indian relatives (as far as I know). Plus, Iím blonde and blue eyed.

    It was a fascinating experience; filled with sight, sound, touch and smell.

    With Love
    ďMy life is like a stroll upon the beach, as near to the ocean's edge as I can go.Ē

    ― Henry David Thoreau

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    For me its simple
    Do i want to listen to theories about!!!
    or do I want to listen to the enlightened--those who have crossed the river of consciousness.
    The enlightened are uniform in what they say ---on Realization of the Self there is no person left.
    No ego---only consciousness---only awareness--impersonal.
    The person never existed its the illusion---the play of consciousness.
    Enlightenment literally means removal of ignorance--the ignorace being that there is an individual soul.
    Only "God " is and you are That.

    Mind changes--beliefs change --
    That which looks through the eyes has not changed one iota ---ever--it is eternal-eternal is not timebased.

    People talk of oneness without a full realization of what that is.
    Its not a part of its not joined to--it is not separate in anyway what soever.

    Best description is found in ancient Sanskrit text---One without a second
    Thousands of years before Christ said---The Father and I are One

    The Holographic universe comes close to an explanation.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    There is one way out of reincarnation and that has been pointed to by mystics of various cultures for many thousands of years and that is Enlightenment.
    That means literally freedom from ignorance---the ignorance being that you are separate from the creator, that you are the persona, that you are a completely separate person.

    Self Realization is another name for Enlightenment.
    Realization of the Self means discovering your true Self---you were never born you do not die you are the eternal One Self.
    Non duality means One without a second --thats what you are.

    So you have choice--there are all sorts of stories that lead you away from truth and keep you on the karmic wheel of reincarnation.
    So either you believe the stories or look at Non-duality and discover for your self the truth.
    One you know the Truth then there is no need for repeated reincarnation, you have exited the school of life--you have graduated.
    I used to believe in the power of realization. But realization is a temporary thing. I think one has to dissolve anything that keeps one from naturally occupying that new enlightened state. Lots of shadow work.

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