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Thread: Is having children a crime against humanity?

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    Sweden Avalon Member Metaphor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Why are we even discussing this?

    Having Children or not is destined to be. Not a choice you can make. You agreed to make room for other souls in your life before you came here. To fail to live up to that obligation only prolong your karmawork. Souls are born into certain families and places due to karma and the type of mission you might have. Karma is both more harsh than most people Think but also more just.
    Having Children is not the meaning of Life, but can give someone a meaning to live.
    Last edited by Metaphor; 22nd May 2018 at 16:54.

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    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    I had a few childless decade to ponder on this topic, thinking at times it was a sin to create children into this world, well, now, I must say it was worthless pondering that brought nothing to the planet, to humanity, to myself. Why? my answer is in the following text of mine:


    Children are the greatest teachers, and moslty the greatest teachers of love.

    Thinking that not having kids will save the planet now seems ludicrous to me. Why not kill humanity as planned by some, while we are at it? This is soooooooo loveless thinking, really (not a judgment, just an observation).

    What I have noticed throughout life:

    1. From my experience:

    one does not understand the meaning of parenthood and the meaning of selfless love until one has children.

    I had my dauhgter quite old. I thought I understood my friends who had children much before me. Well, when I had my daughter, one of my first thought was "wasn't I hyper arrogant, thinking I knew a little what it is to have a child! I understood nothing! How patient my friends were with me when I wasteling them what I thought about raising children".

    the truth, people with no children do not understand, no more than a man can understand what it is to give birth, no more than I can understand what it feels like to be a cat. And, no, I am not exagerating, it is that different from being without child.

    Also, older adults without children are often quite self centered¸, I observed - all those of my friends who had children look at each other sometimes, raising eyebrows amongst friends, when we have comments or behaviors from our others chidless friends. We will even say "she/he does not understand".

    Raising your children well means getting away from your little self to take care of another growing human. This is really selfess. IT also means thinking in a continuous manner about impact of one's or society's action on others.

    2. The second thought or rather incredible overwhelming feeling when I had my daughter at a late age was: "Oh my gosh, I did not know such level of love existed". This was not a thread of love, this was and still is a sea of love, absolutely uncondidtional. I do not know anything else on the planet that can open hearts in such an incredible way.

    3. On a spiritual level, taking care of other human beings is an accomplishment and gain towards greater evolution and greater care of one's creations. How can we go to the next step if we do not even succed in the first steps, down to earth, human steps: taking care of little ones?

    4. The planet will take care of itself if we do not, and this will be a harsh lesson to humanity (we may disappear in the process). If we help the planet, the best for her and us, hopefully we will learn. And one of the best ways to learn is having children and caring for them and their evolution.

    5. If you do not want to procreated, then take care of the millions of orphans on this planet, it will also open your heart, mostly if you adopt them as your own.

    The planet has agreed with humanity to have it grow in her body. She is our mother. Treating our personal mothers well and raising beautiful children is definitely the first step to treating the planet better.

    Ask all the moms, they all want a better more resilient planet for their children. All of them want that (well maybe 10% don't, not much more).

    Quote Posted by Feritciva (here)
    Quote Posted by yiolas (here)
    Your kidding right ! Only an evil globalist or brainwashed minion would think that. The earth is here for the only reason to allow spirit to take a human form in order to experience and learn.
    on the contrary, only a "hormone-washed" minion could think of having children (more minions) in today's world.

    see, the problem with alternative community is being so quick to name others who do not think & act like ourselves. wish we would be this quick for awareness & respect too.

    by the way, i agree it is not a good choice to have children in todays world. wouldnt say "it's a crime" but when one thinks of what's going on... it may also be a crime against Spirit.
    Last edited by Flash; 22nd May 2018 at 15:09.
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    I had a few childless decade to ponder on this topic, thinking at times it was a sin to create children into this world, well, now, I must say it was worthless pondering that brought nothing to the planet, to humanity, to myself. Why? my answer is in the following text of mine:
    Dear Flash,

    I don't agree with the content, but thanks for above excellent post. I was really shocked to see the narrowness & rigidity (and in some posts, outright ridiculosity) of point views here - then I read your post which gave me new openings, or at least more to ponder.

    Let's say my pondering is still in "it should be a sin to create children into this world" era right now - but what you wrote above will be in my mind for some time, I know..

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    Canada Avalon Member petra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Quote Posted by woomap (here)
    Hello everyone! I hope all members here 've had a great weekends!

    As the title suggested, I'm posting this thread so as to know how members here think about having children?

    Do you think having kids is a good or poor decision for one to make? Objectively, generally, of course! :-)
    I'm not permitted to have children so my perspective might be a bit unique. I lost a court case against child services, so my child went up for adoption - and when that happens it means that any more children I have would automatically be taken at birth. So obviously I will not be having any more children. They dragged it out for 5 years though, and so I got to know him up until he was 5

    They say hindsight is 20/20 and if I had my time back, I would not have trusted child services. Not to say they're always scamming, but in my case yes they were. And they're powerful.

    It's an awful thing to say, but having a child just ends up giving them a means to control you with, in my eyes.

    So my advice is of course to not have children. Don't do it, don't don't don't lol. But if you do... just be prepared to deal with the consequences.

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    Canada Avalon Member petra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Quote Posted by Feritciva (here)
    Let's say my pondering is still in "it should be a sin to create children into this world" era right now - but what you wrote above will be in my mind for some time, I know..
    Whoa, when you word it like that...
    How tricky! Certainly children are the answer, not the other way around.
    Just not in my case.

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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Thank you everyone for contributing your insights! I really appreciated that! It was very interesting reading up all your comments!

    I'm sorry to hear that, petra. And I couldn't agree more that children can be used as a means to manipulate the parents. IMO, our ability to live off the grid will become greatly decreased the moment we decide to have babies. Because let's just face it, living off the grid mostly requires one to become a minimalists in many different aspects of his life. That's a challenging enough task for an ordinary, well-functioned adult to do, let alone taking care of his child (if not children) in the same minimalist way. What do you guys think about that?

    Also, while I appreciate the loving message which some of us here has spread that children can help us understand unconditional love and be great teachers for us, I personally think that's kinda self-centered way to approach the topic of having children. As if we choose to have children in other for them to benefit us, in this case spiritually. I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive, but that's what I interpreted from the message. Having children is not & should not be the only way for us to achieve unconditional love, I believe.

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    Sweden Avalon Member Magnus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Quote Posted by Indigris (here)
    I think saying it's a crime against humanity is a bit heavy-handed, but as a 22 year old woman, I already made the decision never to have children unless I become considerably wealthy. Which is unlikely.

    I love children, and have no fears of motherhood, but for me it's about a greater moral issue, sort of like how most vegans see being vegan.

    I don't want children because I know that the world is a rough place and going to ****. I don't want to bring another life into this chaotic, turbulent world.

    The world is overpopulated, the environment is going to hell, and resources will only become more and more scarce. It would be downright irresponsible for me to add to that load. Furthermore, the way things are headed globally, I don't know that my kid's life will be a good one.

    Then, there's the prospect of parenting. To me, if you want to have kids, you need to accept that your life is, in a sense, over. Not in a bad way, but simply that everything is now about that child. You are no longer your own priority. Your luxuries and whims go on the backburner. The kid goes first, always (but not in a way that would spoil them).

    Add to that the massive responsibilty of parenting and being the person whose decisions and choices largely impact how this life is going to be, and that's just way too much of a burden for me. I'm already an overanalytical worry-wart to begin with. If you give me kids, I don't know if I could handle it.

    A lot of it also has to do with being honest with myself and what kind of girl I am. Committment isn't one of my strong suits. I can be materialistic and like the nice things in life. I want to travel and see the world. I don't like being locked down or anchored to anything. Freedom and flexibility are extremely important to me. People like me shouldn't have kids. It's not that we're selfish, but simply that we're not the "settle down and stay in one place forever" types.

    Plus, the idea of birthing the kids is terrifying, and genetically, I'll end up like my grandmother and mother and become fat forever if I have kids. I want to maintain my youth and figure as long as possible. Maybe that makes me shallow, but it is what it is.

    Plus, I have a low pain tolerance.

    If ever I change my mind, and I have lots of money, then maybe I will raise children. But they will be adopted, for the reasons I listed initially.
    I'm behind you 100%. First time ever I've had my mind read on this subject.

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    Sweden Avalon Member Magnus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    By chance, I stumbled upon this video, and I was immediately reminded of this intelligent thread and thought I'd share.


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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    What has always bugged me...and I've never had kids...is that I have only ever been asked "Do you want kids?" in pretty much the same monotonous tone as "Would you like french fries?" I have never had the good fortune of any parent having the least sensible conversation about the subject. It may be a mostly American thing to project this mentality that it is like picking up another shopping item, and then I believe most of those kids get treated that way, like a new toy that was bought and then placed on the shelf.

    It's something I will probably only ever experience vicariously, and I really appreciate those parents who don't "discard" the kids, or dominate them heavily, etc. In this country, you really need to "work around the system" so as not to create a drone. From what I can tell, the legalists have utterly slaughtered childhood...70s probably were the last decade that any of us had much freedom or independence and those things that made us "self starters", and I get queasy about almost all the new ways that have stifled the process. It makes me very sad that I am unable to "pass the torch" to the next generation, because no one is really there. In the 70s I could do this with a gazillion kids any day, and even most of the adults. Now you better just shut up and walk on some egg shells.
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    As one who had a child and lost him, there is never a guarantee. Just because you give birth doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be a parent with living children and grandchildren.

    As a lifelong seeker, having a child didn't prevent me from that, but it colored every decision I ever made while he was alive and the injustice and stupidity of the system as currently set up (and bear in mind, his body died back in 2004-things have changed quite a bit to the worse since then) definitely has you by the you know whats, once you have a child. Not having him here with me has allowed me to have no fear. If he was alive tptb could very definitely influence a number of things, by using threat to my child's well being as a way of keeping me in fear.

    However, that child was the love of my life and right after he died I would have torched every single thing I owned just to have one more minute with him.

    If we lived in Eden, I'd have another.
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Thank you guys for sharing your stories and points of view. Much love to Valerie!

    As observed I think so far it's a 50/50 votes from members here to whether we should have kids or not. There are even more members who voted for having kids than those who didn't it seems. That's also why I admire the members here in this forum much. I think those who've had kids and raised them within this system of the Controllers are really courageous. Or perhaps we just think differently.

    Look, I get it, the children are so spiritually & intellectually pure. That's why they not only learn much faster than adults do, but also learn much better. Adults can learn from children a lot, just like humans as a species can learn a lot from the purity of animals. But, children eventually become adults (except if tragic accidents happen), and when they do, somehow all those spiritual purity they once possessed will just vanish. They'll soon become insecure, socially conditioned, fearful, greedy & in some extreme cases even cruel "adults". All those spiritual "gifts" they were granted at "birth" and for what!?

    Isn't it true then when Mr. Tom Campbell described this universe as being governed by entropy - a force that corrupts and destroys everything!? I mean, what's the point to bring souls here to the place which will eventually only corrupt and destroy them? Where's the learning in there!?

    I know some might say that it's only the human body that gets destroyed and not the soul. Sure, but aren't those who are called "Old souls" always a little sadder and more depressed than their younger counterparts!? It's because they've been through a lot more Karmic cycles and brought the emotions along with them. Now, are we sure if we want to do such things to our other fellow souls? I personally wouldn't!
    Last edited by woomap; 6th June 2018 at 22:22.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Quote Posted by woomap (here)
    Thank you guys for sharing your stories and points of view. Much love to Valerie!

    As observed I think so far it's a 50/50 votes from members here to whether we should have kids or not. There are even more members who voted for having kids than those who didn't it seems. That's also why I admire the members here in this forum much. I think those who've had kids and raised them within this system of the Controllers are really courageous. Or perhaps we just think differently.

    Look, I get it, the children are so spiritually & intellectually pure. That's why they not only learn much faster than adults do, but also learn much better. Adults can learn from children a lot, just like humans as a species can learn a lot from the purity of animals. But, children eventually become adults (except if tragic accidents happen), and when they do, somehow all those spiritual purity they once possessed will just vanish. They'll soon become insecure, socially conditioned, fearful, greedy & in some extreme cases even cruel "adults". All those spiritual "gifts" they were granted at "birth" and for what!?

    Isn't it true then when Mr. Tom Campbell described this universe as being governed by entropy - a force that corrupts and destroys everything!? I mean, what's the point to bring souls here to the place which will eventually only corrupt and destroy them? Where's the learning in there!?

    I know some might say that it's only the human body that gets destroyed and not the soul. Sure, but aren't those who are called "Old souls" always a little sadder and more depressed than their younger counterparts!? It's because they've been through a lot more Karmic cycles and brought the emotions along with them. Now, are we sure if we want to do such things to our other fellow souls? I personally wouldn't!
    They way I looked at all this when I was about to have my first, was from a perspective of, "I'm going to teach my child all that is wrong with this world and how they can contribute to fixing it, one small step at a time." Think of things like teaching my kids how to grow a garden and not have to buy GMO or pesticide laden vegetables, how to be self reliant, how to sustain yourself, how to barter, etc. so as to not support the systems that are destroying / controlling humanity. When we consider everything revolves around money, we also have to consider that if no one bought Monsanto ****, they'd go bankrupt. The power is ours, we just have to stop giving it to "them". If I can raise a couple kids and train them to partake in this process ... I have changed the world. Maybe only a little, but then they will raise thier kids, and so-on. Chaos science proves that only a tiny permutation, when given enough time, can have all encompassing effects.

    Claiming that we shouldn't have children because the world is wicked, is admitting and participating in our defeat of this "battle" with the masses. Often we have considerations that seem valid at the time, but oh how often the exact opposite of what action we believe we should take is the actual truth. They plan for our most likely "reaction" in everything they do. "Reacting" to them won't help us at all. Setting that aside and creating the world we want is the only thing that will help.

    Thanks for asking this question, it brought out some interesting responses.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 6th June 2018 at 23:15.
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Having Children is not the meaning of Life, but can give someone a meaning to live.

    Well expressed, metaphor.

    I don't have children--it was not a conscious choice..the "coordinates" simply were not in place during fertile years..I was sharing a life with a woman and not a man. I did not want to adopt. It all costs $$ also.

    Not all parents are good parents. Not all parents love unconditionally. Look to your own upbringing. There is no perfection...there is certainly no perfect childhood.

    And yes, perhaps the soul chose these experiences before incarnating. Many people appear to be on the course of deprogramming-- so family patterns are not passed onto the next generation. The less life-enhancing patterns like narcissism, alcoholism, violence, sexual abuse. Let's not glorify the whole parent-child thing. Truth is that many parents are ill-equipped to meet the challenges of child-rearing. There are many single parents out there too.
    The other side of the proverbial coin is that many parents do rise to the challenge and are transformed in positive ways by the experience. They create the opportunity to love unconditionally. Powerful.

    Not having children automatically places me on the fringes of society. You don't have the instant social network of friends/colleagues/parent groups. It can be isolating. And note that those with children/grandchildren usually only talk about this aspect of their lives.

    Sure, it also gives you a differing kind of freedom to travel, explore one's spirituality, to be the caretaker in other ways, to find meaning and purpose outside of raising your own children.
    A friend confided to me recently that raising her children is, in fact, selfish as they are an extension of herself.
    Interesting comment.

    There are many shades...

    Perhaps those who don't have children in this life are developing other skills...perhaps they have mothered many many children in other incarnations. who can truly say?

    We have choices and varying life experiences and need not be in judgement.

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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    I never had children because I couldn't find any MEN. I think they have been incrementally drained of testosterone along with brains---at least the ones I ran into and should have run from.

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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    not long ago i came to the decision that im not going to have children. and the reason is that this world is in a very bad state for a human to be born to. there is too much corruption, we work as slaves to put food on our table or we get a degree to do exactly the same. i dont want to bring a chiled to such missury.

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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Have missed your smiling face, 6pounder! Hope things are going well for you!

    Respect your decision; I had 7 without even giving it a thought...so you are WAY ahead of me!!

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    Israel Avalon Member PathWalker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Quote Posted by 6pounder (here)
    not long ago i came to the decision that im not going to have children. and the reason is that this world is in a very bad state for a human to be born to. there is too much corruption, we work as slaves to put food on our table or we get a degree to do exactly the same. i dont want to bring a chiled to such missury.
    I could see the very opposite point in bringing children to this happy, caring, joyful, loving, empowering, human relationship.
    Self expression opportunity, exploration of life, and diverse nature like no other planet.
    I give and share my love with my children, it is not bounded. And conserving the love to a special one person/idea. Is like conserving flame in a candle.

    This is a unique and precious souls playground, souls are lining and shoving to get in. And you are one of the winners, can you see it (here in Israel).

    The beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, if you follow my path.
    Yin/yang must exist in order to reflect/integrate on each other.

    Hope this is
    Last edited by PathWalker; 7th June 2018 at 16:20.
    We are playing a virtual reality game, of duality. In the game of choices, align your choices with your ideals. Everything is whole, complete and perfect. Even yourself. Love is the power to change/create.

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    Philippines Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    if you can go back in time where your parents egg and sperm is about to make you and you were ask whether you'd like to be born or not what would be your answer. Too many times we made the wrong decision. because we forget to put oneself on others shoes, me included.

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    Sweden Avalon Member Magnus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is having children a crime against humanity?

    Moderation in all things is a virtue.

    Quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderation

    "Moderation is the process of eliminating or lessening extremes"

    ------

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/a...s-the-key-life

    "Moderation Is the Key to Life
    Health, well-being, and success rest on one principle: In all things moderation."

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