Michelle Wolf Is A Beast

[Innocent Warrior]

Posted by Mike (here)
but i do think she is a good example. i disagree with you 1000%

Well nobody’s perfect.

But I still love your mind...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tgsn7_hKg7A

...because it’s yours.

[Mike]

Hi Helene, I didn't post the video to "defend" her; I just posted it because I like the performance. It made me laugh and I thought it was gutsy.

I was never coming from the angle that "this woman needs defending". I was coming from the angle that "this woman deserves praise!".

If it seems like I'm defending her, it's because there are quite a few people who are "attacking" her(I put that word in quotes because it's way overused and terribly dramatic, but i couldn't quite think of a substitute)

I wonder if folks are even listening to what she was going after in that performance? Her targets are misogyny, pedophilia, racism, media corruption, incessantly lying and so forth. But you're offended because she made fun of Trump a little and used the word "pussy"? You're offended because she called Kellyanne Conway and Sarah Huckabee liars? (They are!).

When youre going into the lions den, you have to fight like a lion. Men don't go into war saying, "Right, no killing boys! And if confronted by the enemy, REMEMBER!....no hitting below the belt! It's life or death out there, but let's be polite about this thing, alright?"

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Rachel (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
but i do think she is a good example. i disagree with you 1000%

Well nobody’s perfect.

But I still love your mind...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tgsn7_hKg7A

...because it’s yours.

There aren't enough hug emojis in the world to express my affection for you, Ms. Warrior.

[Helene West]

there's trees and there's the forest.
there's innocence and there's motive.
there's the first amendment and there's those who will pervert it.

I noticed back awhile as soon as I had posted you hit the thanks button immediately, like less than 5 seconds, which meant to me you did not read anything I had written anyhow.

I have to look at my masochism for returning here, that's the only thing at this point I need to look at!!

[Mike]

Posted by Helene West (here)
there's trees and there's the forest.
there's innocence and there's motive.
there's the first amendment and there's those who will pervert it.

I noticed back awhile as soon as I had posted you hit the thanks button immediately, like less than 5 seconds, which meant to me you did not read anything I had written anyhow.

I have to look at my masochism for returning here, that's the only thing at this point I need to look at!!

I "thank" everyone who posts in my threads.

I also reply to everyone. In order to reply coherently, don't you think i'd have to read the posts first?

I've read every word you've written here!

Masochism is addictive. It's no mistake that some people take great pleasure in it LOL. I think in your case, you're assuming moral high ground ..and something in you just can't quit until you convince me I'm wrong and you're right. That's the ego of ideology, bringing you back again and again. To be fair, my ego is involved too - no one wants to let the other side have the last word, right? I'm trying to avoid the thread just as much as you are! But alas....here I am. A masochistic pursuit if there ever was one.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Personally I wasn't offended by her, and I did laugh, many times. I'm not too sensitive when it comes to ribald humour. One of my favourite stand-up performers was Richard Pryor, and he didn't exactly tell knock knock jokes.

I would normally somewhat agree that some of her gags were a little over the line, in that she was directing them to people present, in the audience. No one likes to be picked on. That made me squirm a few times. But it's no ordinary audience here. It was full of politicians, right? - and media. Who among them don't deserve a verbal kicking? And that's all it was anyway. Verbal. Jokes. Just words.

But everyone should applaud her for her guts. She stood up there in front of a lot of very powerful (and rich) people, and smashed them into pieces. And that speaks to me, because, in contrast, what we have in the UK is satire. A lot of satire. That's as far as it goes when it comes to having a dig at the government, or god forbid, the r*yal family. If she ripped them like that, on a stage so large over here in this ultra-liberal social climate, the scandal she'd make would be atomic in nature.

On the theme of female empowerment...it's a tricky one. Not being female, I don't think I'm qualified to have an opinion. But if I was to chance my hand at one, I'd say as an exemplar of pure courage, Wolf clearly demonstrates she's very much an empowered woman! Which is awesome. However, dirty jokes and a loud mouth do not make much of a role model. I'd be no more inclined to point her out to a young girl as someone to look up to than I would Richard Pryor to a young lad.

Perhaps gender is irrelevant here? It spoke more to me of people empowerment, if anything. We're living in a dystopia of the world that was a few short years ago. Freedom of speech is not what it used to be. We are ruled by political correctness, and even the smallest slight against another individual can end a career. Look at Roseanne. Taken in that context, Wolf's set was even more remarkable in this day and age.

Anyway, I could've posted earlier but didn't want to intrude. This thread has been a very interesting read. It's a true debate, passionately and intelligently argued. I would like to see more of this on Avalon if truth be told. Perhaps we should have a special sub-forum called "Debate It". It would be a blast, as we have such great minds here. I appreciate each and every one, brother and sister.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Mike (here)
no one wants to let the other side have the last word, right?

..............♡

[Mike]

Mr Star Mariner,

Wonderful post, perfectly balanced.

I read it twice!

I have nothing to add, except...please feel free to "intrude" any time

[Helene West]

there are many times I don't have the last word, here and in 'real' life for sure.

I helped put together feminist events in the '80s and met some of the stars back then. If myself and many of the women I worked with could have seen the future and what some of the icons of empowerment would be today I doubt many of us would have bothered. We were all broke but put a lot into what we considered feminism when we should have been concentrating on more personal issues and improving our own station in life but we thought we had a vision of something better than this...

the wolfs and the bees remind me of our/my past broken, sabotaged vision.

It's not ego for me, I brought baggage here. I think that is the part of me that has been more obstinate on this thread than I usually am, I realize it now, sorry.

[Mike]

Posted by RunningDeer (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
no one wants to let the other side have the last word, right?

..............♡

Wise words.

But why didn't you tell me that on the first page?

Wait a second...i'm a moderator, I can close the thread

We're beginning to go round in circles now. There's a name for that right? "Diminishing returns"? But I like to believe something productive occured here besides mine and Helene's masochism. Although I can't really put my finger on what that something is

[Mike]

Posted by Helene West (here)
there are many times I don't have the last word, here and in 'real' life for sure.

I helped put together feminist events in the '80s and met some of the stars back then. If myself and many of the women I worked with could have seen the future and what some of the icons of empowerment would be today I doubt many of us would have bothered. We were all broke but put a lot into what we considered feminism when we should have been concentrating on more personal issues and improving our own station in life but we thought we had a vision of something better than this...

the wolfs and the bees remind me of our/my past broken, sabotaged vision.

It's not ego for me, I brought baggage here. I think that is the part of me that has been more obstinate on this thread than I usually am, I realize it now, sorry.

Although i doubt the feeling is mutual, I really have enjoyed debating with you Helene. Sincerely.

I've brought my baggage here too. And some ego. It's such a challenge to leave that stuff out and be totally authentic, in every moment. But I think we get closer and closer every time we have discussions like this on the forum. So I appreciate you contributing here.

[RunningDeer]

Redundant.
Feel free to delete.

[Helene West]

Was I debating you or harrassing you, lol!

the time, energy, loss of money and neglect of other areas of my life, etc. that I put into feminism back then helped to create something the opposite of what I had envisioned. Naive women like me helped open the door for the bees and the wolfs...hard pill to swallow...
I will never see things the way you have outlined but I'm just another brick in the wall...

Thanks for your kind words...

[AutumnW]

Interesting thread, Mike.

The event is about humor at someone else's expense, so that's cool. It's about toasting or roasting the mass murderers currently in power...the ones who replaced the last lot of mass murderers.

It should probably be held in Syria, with their press doing the roasting, though. And to keep things 'real' and in the spirit of turnabout is fair play, their press could arrange a real tit for tat. But nobody likes to bomb on stage, right? Hmmmm...

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Interesting thread, Mike.

The event is about humor at someone else's expense, so that's cool. It's about toasting or roasting the mass murderers currently in power...the ones who replaced the last lot of mass murderers.

It should probably be held in Syria, with their press doing the roasting, though. And to keep things 'real' and in the spirit of turnabout is fair play, their press could arrange a real tit for tat. But nobody likes to bomb on stage, right? Hmmmm...

Hi Autumn right, like i've said repeatedly here, i'm not anti trump; i'm pro free speech and pro comedy.

The roast really seems like a very tiny, harmless bit of retaliation to me when one considers the dirty deeds perpetrated upon us by media and government.

Some nice, relatively innocent people get caught up in the crossfire at these things, and i do feel some sympathy for them. I went and saw DL Hughley perform at a comedy club back in NY, and I don't even think he arrived with any material! - he was just going around the room and making fun of the audience relentlessly. And it was great!...really funny, even when he was roasting me, which honestly felt like forever! But the trick is to laugh while it's happening, laugh harder than anyone in the room. It makes it all much less stressful and awkward, for everyone involved. And as i was watching this Wolf roast, i kept thinking, whats wrong with these people getting roasted? it's a performance! laugh for crying out loud. stop being so god damn serious...you're just making it worse! I was actually pulling for them in that sense!

[ceetee9]

Thank you Mike for creating this thread. I think this is an extremely important subject, not necessarily Michelle Wolf's White House Correspondents Dinner/Roast specifically but this whole in-your-face-balls-to-the-wall-no-holds-barred-take-no-prisoners-all-out-assault on anyone and anything that one finds offensive, unfair, and/or unjust. IMHO, it has gotten severely out of hand and is doing more damage than good to our country and to the world.

And I'm certainly no prude or unaccustomed to obscenity, vulgarity or aggressive dialog. But I have learned over the years—with no small part of my education attributable to Avalon and its many intelligent thinkers and writers—that that type of behavior not only fails to get your point across, but, more often than not, colors you as a feckless, uncouth, ignorant, disreputable fool. Clearly, this was never my goal and I would hope not the goal of any reasonably intelligent person.

So with all due respect, please take my comments/questions as just another's perspective contributing to the discussion.

Wolf is taking aim at things we all detest, like racist, sexism, pedophilia, political/media mendacity. She's not doing it lightly - she is destroying it. If it takes a few swear words and some naughty jokes to do it, then so be it.

I think “she is destroying it” is an appropriate assessment—although I don't believe we'd agree on what she is destroying.

Without question I think we can all agree that any rational, compassionate, loving human being detests racism, sexism, pedophilia, and the political/media mendacity and the divisive propaganda they spew—as well as many other despicable things. But how can we as rational, compassionate, loving human beings find elation or solace in watching one human being tearing another apart, even if the debauchery is portrayed as a joke? And I believe that much of the disrespectful, tasteless and hate-filled “jokes” from some of these so called “comedians” today, like Steven Colbert, Kathy Griffin, Samantha Bee, and Sarah Silverman, to name a few, comes from a truly dark, hateful and troubled soul.

Don't get me wrong, I loved some of the old satirical comedians, like George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Lenny Bruce, Lewis Black, and Don Rickles, but their humor didn't appear to come from such a dark and hateful place—at least not to me—unlike some of the “comedians” today. Perhaps it was there then too and I was too young or naïve to see it, but it seems to me today's humor goes way beyond ribbing or attempting to show the deceit and hypocrisy in politicians, corporations and others.

Regardless, this type of extreme negative rhetoric does not motivate people in a positive way and only serves to divide us even further. But then, isn't that what the powers-that-be really want?

Political and media corruption hides behind propriety and subsequent notions of "outrage". If you play the game on that level, on their level,you'll never get anywhere. By approaching her act in the way she did, she was announcing to the room - and the world - that she wasn't going to let anyone or anything hide behind that type of artifice. And to do that effectively, one has to be devastatingly blunt.

Absolutely, political and media corruption hides behind propriety and notions of “outrage.” And I think anyone who has been paying attention at all over the last couple of decades (at least), understands that. This is why politicians, and most mainstream media outlets now, have such a low rating with the public. And, unfortunately, it appears true that the majority of the public continues to fall prey to their game and the Republican vs. Democrat BS show.

I personally admire blunt, to the point, no BS, type people, but I don't believe she opened anyones eyes by her (mostly) tasteless jokes. (And, in the spirit of full disclosure, I actually did find a few of her jokes funny.) However, IMO, there are far better ways to make your point, even in jokes, without demeaning your opponents if you sincerely wish to open people's eyes and hope to change minds.

Here we have a female comic in a predominantly male role(I can't name too many female comics, can you?)...at a dinner representing institutions that are primarily ruled by men(politics and media), totally outnumbered and out gunned, standing up there and exposing all their sh!t in the most brave, courageous, and brutally honest way. If that's not an advert for female empowerment, i don't know what is!

Yes, you can say it takes courage to stand before that audience and be brutally blunt—although how honest she was I'm not so sure. You could also say that it takes a great deal of courage to stand before a bevy of armed police while aiming a weapon at them in protest against police violence, but I don't think any of us would agree that that would be a particularly intelligent thing to do and, most likely, would not result in whatever goal you were attempting to achieve.

I can think of a couple of better examples of female empowerment. My grandmother got divorced in the 1930s and had to raise her son by herself. She often had to place my father in a foster home while she went to NYC to find work as a Registered Nurse. While, admittedly, that wasn't an ideal situation, she managed to get a college education, raise my father by herself and buy her own home in a time when it was very hard for a woman to do.

My mother and my aunt also didn't let adversity hinder them. In the early 1960s they started an upscale women's clothing store in a small farming community in NY. My aunt was a single mom with two boys to raise and my mom had five of us to raise. The odds were stacked against them, but through dogged determination they still became quite successful. And these women did it when things were much harder for women than they are today, None of them played the victim, or complained it was a man's world, or needed government assistance—and they were not rich either. They didn't let anything stand in their way of accomplishing what they wanted. This, to me, is true empowerment. Anyone who won't play the victim game or let circumstances or tough challenges get in their way of achieving what they want out of life are truly empowered. It may not be easy, but it is absolutely doable.

If you just don't think she's funny, that's one thing...but if we fall into this game of being offended and so on, we're just falling for the trap. She's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and fair enough! I get that. But if you don't view the whole thing in it's proper context, you will be missing the point entirely.

Perhaps I'm missing the point entirely. I'm not offended by her or any of the other sad sack's “humor.” What does offend me, however, is people who are offended by virtually anything their little minds can dredge up as being some sort of obstacle to them getting ahead in this world. I'm offended by the “Politically Correct” crowd who think that they have a right to not to be offended by anything, but those of us who don't also wear our heart on our sleeve must cow-tow to their every whim and fancy else we be subjected to an endless stream of ad hominem attacks and their nonsensical pretzel logic (great album though).

Accepting any kind of verbal barb is exactly what we have to do, if we want to live in a truly free society. Just like you're free to ignore it, walk out of the room, turn off your tv, or whatever

What's the option? Censorship? Legislating language?

Why must rational people have to accept irrational behavior to live in a “free” society? Why is it that we must always give in to those who can find fault with most anything and demand insane rules or laws to rectify the alleged suffering, unfairness, inequality, and/or injustice they feel simply because they claim it's so? And if we disagree with them then we are a racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobe, neo-Nazi, or whatever slight they can dream up.

Yes, we can ignore it, walk out of the room, or turn the TV, Radio, and Internet off, but isn't that exactly what our slave masters want? Don't they want us to not be able to communicate with each other lest we start getting educated and catch on to their nefarious plans and begin to conspire to stop them?

And, no, censorship, language legislation or any other boondoggle to circumvent free speech and the Constitution is not the answer either. However, for those who haven't been paying attention lately, censorship is precisely what's happening under the guise of a corporation's right to control what goes through their communication systems. The public airwaves be damned.

If people don't start waking up and standing against the tyranny that is closing in on us at a feverish pace, none of us will have to worry about any of this soon. Once all communication but the “officially scripted, sanctioned and approved“ communication is shutdown, the Gestapo can silently remove all those dastardly people who think, question and cause problems for the thought police. Just like in the Twilight Zone episode, “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” when the State Leader demands absolute conformity in his speech; “... a single purpose! A single norm! A single approach! A single entity of peoples!… A single philosophy of government.. Differences weaken us. Variations destroy us... Conformity we must worship and hold sacred. Conformity is the key to survival.” And to quote another line from a Twilight Zone episode; “and best of all Val, I look just like you.” Yes, won't the world be a glorious place then?

And, yes, I love the Twilight Zone and Rod Serling. He was a true visionary and man far ahead of his time—IMHO anyway.

[Mike]

ceetee9, thanks so much for your very thoughtful and well written post there.

I think most of us would agree that political correctness is extreme in this day and age. The key word there being extreme. If something is extreme it dramatically represents or symbolizes an idea or thing.

Ying and Yang being what they are, one extreme will always be countered by another.

In this way, I submit that the current PC climate has actually created all the comedians that you don't particularly care for - Wolf, Silverman, Griffin etc

I don't know that the comedians can be blamed so much as the insanity they're drowning in. Carlin, Pryor, Rickles etc, if they were around today, in their prime, whew...look out! I think they would be even more controversial than the comedians going now, more brutal, more vicious.

For the record, i won't watch a comic simply because he or she is blunt or forthcoming or raunchy, or whatever. First and foremost i admire creativity; if they also happen to be raunchy, well, it doesn't bother me too much. I'm willing to make allowances. But there are plenty of so called 'shock comics' that I wouldn't give 2 minutes of my time to - but it's not because of their vulgar language or demeaning intent, it's simply because they're not funny.

There's quite a bit I'd like to say about your post, but I'm just too tired to untangle it all at the moment. It really appears as though we are agreeing more than we are disagreeing. Social justice warriors, identity politics, post modernism, PC culture, and so on are things we both are very concerned about.

Rational people tolerating irrational language is the price we pay for a free society (irrational *behaviors* are a whole other topic)There's no other way. The thing is, who decides what's rational? The PC folks think we're the irrational ones. In their minds, they're the ones tolerating us. It's largely subjective.

I don't dare use the phrase "female empowerment" again for fear of Rachel's wrath, but it sure sounds like your grandmother, mother and aunt are all wonderful role models for young women. But Wolf is no slouch either. Take a look at her wikipedia page - she's quite accomplished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Wolf

that's all i got for now. bed time for Mikey.

[KiwiElf]

Notations in red - mine

Posted by Bruno (here)
KiwiElf- calling someone a talent-less bitch and that she was one step removed from a crass, retarded, pathetic, schoolyard bully and then referring to a fellow avalon community member as being small minded or unintelligent with your unfinished quote. - out of context - YOUR interpretation/projection, not mine

You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Did you even watch the full video? (Yes, weeks ago. Did you see the extended version with guests walking out?) She didn't only roast Trump -which is the point of the press dinner after all. - The point was to unify the media, Trump wasn't even there - yes, she insulted everyone, did you actually read what I said?

You say the left is one sided? You and a few other people on here get so reactive anytime someone says anything remotely against Trump. - Depends what they say - and you and a "few others" thank every negative POV about Trump you can - think I - and a "few others" - didn't notice?

I don't believe that was the point of this thread at all, but gawd forbid anyone on here say anything negative about your hero Trump. - YOU are the one bringing Trump into this discussion, and sorry to burst your bubble but he's not my "hero"; he's the elected, sitting POTUS - whether you and a "few others" like it or not, and unlike his predecessors, is exposing the Deep State. Why do you have a problem that?

I think you are taking things too far. "Methinks thou dost protest too much".

How predictable.

I set a "verbal/written trap",... and you and a "few others" fell headlong into it. Tricked or Triggered? (Perhaps I've been reading too much of "Q"). Go back & read what I actually said. ALL of it - in context. Maybe you and "a few others" should actually research the bigger picture and the full story? (for a change).
(I find your comments hilarious - and "enlightening", coming from someone who actually didn't know their own govt legalised bestiality?)

Go look in your own mirror.

This thread isn't about Trump, (Ms Wolf actually said very little about him). That's your projection, as is your twisting of my words.

You don't know me from a bar of soap; I don't do "hero's" btw, but if I did, anyone who exposes the Deep State would be "it",.. including Trump...(more assumptive projection on your part - it certainly wouldn't be Michelle Wolf). And yes, I did watch the full video,... weeks ago when it was actually news (and the ensuing fallout). Are you living under a rock? This is OLD "news" and it's only PART ONE; you might want to check out what happened afterwards.

I put Ms Wolf, Griffin, Kimmel, Noah et al in the same sad, demented little camp; they're the "type" I would let have it in the school yard; the "in crowd",... for bullying/mocking/making fun of blacks, or Asians, or kids with pimples, geeks, overweight kids... or gays. I'm sure you can relate to that?

The difference being I called them out for what they were - to their faces = "bullys & cowards" (and a few other "colorful metaphors" including "b*itches"... because they were, and they deserved it - a taste of their own medicine); (but not on national TV, with no opportunity to rebuff it. You, and a "few others" fail to see "degrees & shades of grey").

Please don't make excuses for the "PC brigade" or "1st Amendment" and call it "humour" or "diversity" when it's clear for most to see what it really is: Division & Targeted Hatred.

Yeah, I DO react to "opinions" which have little basis in facts.

Got it?

"Be careful who you follow"

On that note, I will take Mike's advice...

PS - Thanks ceetee9
- Awesome post (for more articulately laying out what I was trying to say) - I think we went to a similar school!

[Bruno]

Kiwi,

I don't know you at all, as you don't know me. I'm not hiding the fact that I personally think Trump is a jerk of a human being. However, as I've stated many times on these boards- I am hopeful that he is indeed an outsider and therefore manages to expose the deep state. He has a few years to go but so far I see no evidence of deep state exposure. What passes as research and truth on the forum is often questionable. But that's no different than the MSM. More opinion and hopeful thinking then facts.

Maybe Trump will be the hero in the end- both yours and MINE if he is successful.

I am not triggered as you put it. I am getting tired of feeling I can't have a different opinion on here though.




You don't know me from a bar of soap; I don't do "hero's" btw, but if I did, anyone who exposes the Deep State would be "it",.. including Trump...(more assumptive projection on your part - it certainly wouldn't be Michelle Wolf). And yes, I did watch the full video,... weeks ago when it was actually news (and the ensuing fallout). Are you living under a rock? This is OLD "news" and it's only PART ONE; you might want to check out what happened afterwards.

I put Ms Wolf, Griffin, Kimmel, Noah et al in the same sad, demented little camp; they're the "type" I would let have it in the school yard; the "in crowd",... for bullying/mocking/making fun of blacks, or Asians, or kids with pimples, geeks, overweight kids... or gays. I'm sure you can relate to that?

The difference being I called them out for what they were - to their faces = "bullys & cowards" (and a few other "colorful metaphors" including "b*itches"... because they were, and they deserved it - a taste of their own medicine); (but not on national TV, with no opportunity to rebuff it. You, and a "few others" fail to see "degrees & shades of grey").

Please don't make excuses for the "PC brigade" or "1st Amendment" and call it "humour" or "diversity" when it's clear for most to see what it really is: Division & Targeted Hatred.

Yeah, I DO react to "opinions" which have little basis in facts.

Got it?

"Be careful who you follow"

On that note, I will take Mike's advice...

PS - Thanks ceetee9
- Awesome post (for more articulately laying out what I was trying to say) - I think we went to a similar school! [/QUOTE]

[Hym]

CeeTee9, You included much of how I see it. KiwiElf, the same insights I had. Thanks.

However, there is much here to look at even deeper. Understand that it is the nature of both the venue and the current political manipulation of media that dictate her boundaries, whether she is aware of it or not. Michelle stepped on both sides, but she did so with a limited scope. In the context of the great comedians' gift the w.h.c.dinner is, I'd give her the rating of one ovary.

She went from the lazy and easy, almost mindless scripts of the Stephen Colbert method, the one I call shooting fish in a barrel, to tip-toeing across the divide. Remember that comedy is a choice of whether the writer wants to grow or not, whether they care about solutions or not and if they choose to exercise their mental dexterity or not. That Buddha dude and the Christian guy would have been great comedians. Maybe they were, but it wasn't PC then to repeat the jokes about picking up Siddhartha's old girlfriends or the apostles adding grape juice to water when their teacher was away.....

As a note here I appreciate guts as much as many do, but I have a great respect for those women with the ovaries to express the truth, whether or not those ovaries have gone to sleep or have been removed. Give me a womb-based skit before you try to offer me some easy, nut-based retread any day. All hail Joanie Rivers, the few female comediennes and comedic men who live to create a more honest world!

Now people get to see the dilemma of a comedian's life. It is most often bound by the extremely limited margin that their paymasters allow them to operate in. Good comedians go beyond the script and make you think, but often don't go too far. In contrast, Great comedians challenge your viewpoint without having to be too crass and insulting, even while they may use those tools to get the idea, the vision, and the insight across to all of the comedic virgins out there. Their insights travel thru time like the vibrant truths of Shakespeare's mind. You can tell their stories in any age.

[Hym]

I'd call the current lopsided and overtly left leaning narratives comedic lobotomies. I'd say the same if it was right leaning. In a world alive with so many multi-facted aspects to the many societies we inhabit I find most comedy boring.

Michelle had her moments there, but some of her comments were so lame that I had to turn off the sound, read her lips and watch the crowd's reactions to find the gems. It is obvious that the crude remark made by Roseanne was most likely fueled by the acceptance of Michelle's set by the P.C. crowd, excuses abound, wrapped in the overcooked, burnt-to-a-crisp pig of P.C. hypocrisy. Theirs is a crowd with zero tolerance for any one else's comedy as well, thus the reaction to her remarks.

I know that the few comedians and ennes out there who are hard core and open to the accurate and painful living that many have to endure, would LOVE to jump over and into the abyss, if there wasn't such a factual basis for being attacked and unemployed by the humorless bastards who lurk in the hallways of hollywood.

The drag to me is how flippant RB was in putting the careers and the incomes of those behind the scenes, like mine, and on set, at risk. How many jobs did she lose? I hope that Sara Gilbert has some success in reviving the show, but only for the sake of the jobs lost, as the show's content itself was just another token in opening up any dialogue of the many truths hidden by the engineering that controls the media marketplace. How ridiculous is it, by the way, for anyone, especially those of us who are so knowing, so apparently open, so healed.... to present any solutions to such a closed entertainment and media industry!

Some would be surprised, but maybe shouldn't be, to find a country singer and a heavy metal guitarist backstage or on the road smoking or toking together. Behind the scenes most who are employed in the industry and especially those who travel often don't have the fortitude to keep their ignorance alive.

Nowadays you might even find some of these entertaining salesmen and women, musicians all, clean and sober, sharing healthy food and drink, even exercising regularly. They have realized that they have a choice, even if it took the realization that they "earned" it by just being in careers with such fickle, physically and mentally demanding conditions of employment and pay.

Comedians share the same roads, the same venues and the same exposure to the backstreets of every country that hires them. Who offers them the financial security they need when they put their asses on the line?