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Thread: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    If I may? It does wear off and it certainly doesn't make you enlightened. Life makes you enlightened. For some, certain altered states are just part of the growth.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with somebody when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous"

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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    ''We are sick. We are terminal. We've lost our compass. We dont know who we are. We dont know where we wanna go. Our own lives are an experience of inadequacy and tension. We have lost our compass. But its there. And not because the psychedelics are a magical panacea. The psychedelics lift the veil of the intention of the Gaian mind and we are but atoms in that Gaian mind. If we do not follow its purpose, we have no purpose. Who do we think we are? Western science is 600 years old. Human beings have been on this planet 2 million years. Life? 1.4 billion years.

    There is an enormous wisdom in biology and we must become able to tap into that. Articulate it and then activate it. We are the crowning achievement of the evolutionary process. Lets not betray it. Lets make it be ascent to angelic being that is I am sure the intention of the Gaian mind and all the rest of the life with which we share this planet.''

    Last edited by Wind; 14th June 2018 at 22:00.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    Naw Mike I don't accept being lumped into your philosophy that we are all diseased:

    Quote humanity is essentially a diseased an broken species completely out of harmony with the rest of the planet and the probably the Universe for that matter.
    I have never seen anyone qualified to make that observation. I reject your assumptions as fact. I accept your opinions as your belief.

    Quote The human mind is diseased, it is full of contradictions and fallacies, irrational logic, most always a hidden fear disguised as "practicality". Humanity is in a perpetual state of hypnosis, we are programmed from birth by our "cultures" (hence pointless culture and religious wars). Our minds are the product of these programs.

    THIS is who you are and who everyone else is.
    I reject your insult and insinuation. It lowers the value of humanity, human mind and productivity.

    Quote Knowing that DMT and psilocybin are seratonin mimics isn't any kind of experience. Sugar is a seratonin booster ... so what?
    Equating DMT and psilocybin as safe as sugar is an insult, and I feel a misrepresentation to the general public.

    It seems useless to me to ask you to stay on topic, which according to the OP post 1 and title is Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    I've made it clear why I feel taking a strong hallucinogen is a form of messing with perceptions from the human mind "as-it-is". An altered state using a hallucinogen is a change. A severe hallucinogen induces a severe alteration of perception.

    I pointed out my belief that I feel one who is using a powerful hallucinogenic compound has altered their viewpoint, and that I disagree with taking the advice or conclusions of one using highly hallucinogenic drugs as "gospel", or an accurate view of reality.

    I believe one who can find compassion, peace, harmony, interaction with all lifekind without using heavy hallucinogenics has achieved a wonderful feat, demonstrating that the human mind and human kind are not the "diseased" beings you purport us to be.

    I believe Paradise on earth can be found not with using hallucinogenics, nor accepting a "guru's" beliefs that it is better to smoke DMT than live life as-it-is - learning to cope, learning to communicate and learning to find love where it may not be obvious at first. We don't need heavy drugs to do that. We don't need the crutches to find paradise, and life to tell about it.

    It's clear to me where off topic points have happened.

    I appreciate you Mike, and your opinions. We will have to disagree then on heavy drug use. As to your comments about not knowing "drug use" I am a registered MET/EMT have the training, and have had to deal with folks who have over-dosed or experienced severe psychotic episodes.
    One can't fix what they don't know is broken. Truth hurts a little. Just look at this world and the topics on this forum. Humans are messed up. The variation is only the type of program and its expression, not the idea that we are or are not programmed - no one escapes this. The variable is what we are programmed with and how that gets expressed.

    I never argued you on the "heavy drug use". This is you again creating your own arguments so you can appear to be right. We are going to have to leave it here at agree to disagree on most of this stuff. But at the end of the day you have no experience or input into how a hallucinogenic trip affects the mind (I said mind, not brain, they are not the same thing). You can't really speak to that which you have no experience in.

    And I do agree, Heavy drug use is no answer to anything, nor do I believe T.M. ever advocated that everyone start doing trips every day. This isn't, nor ever was the argument. But having the experience of even a single hallucinogenic trip is invaluable, said almost everyone who has gone on such an adventure.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 14th June 2018 at 22:35.
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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Quote Posted by dynamo (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    ...
    I'd say that things like magic mushrooms seem to be quite revolutionary catalysts for healing, spiritual growth and the expansion of consciousness as they produce mystical experiences which people just don't get to normally experience in their daily lives. I've never tried any mind altering substances expect for alcohol (I might be in the minority here), yet I find videos like these and also McKenna's teachings fascinating. Shamanic tools have been there for a reason, nature has provided us with it's healing plants for a reason. Why has that been demonized? I think I know the answer, but I'm just thinking out loud.
    Sure, drugs can create the illusion of having "mystical" experiences.
    But...what happens when they wear off?
    Same old, same old...your personal reality.
    Not exactly true ... the insights you gain don't leave - you can program over them with your old beliefs, if you don't change your repetitive and programmed behaviors based on those insights but these are insights gained being referred to, not the drug.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    When your are two steps ahead, you are a crackpot.

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    Avalon Member dynamo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    ...
    Not exactly true ... the insights you gain don't leave - you can program over them with your old beliefs, if you don't change your repetitive and programmed behaviors based on those insights but these are insights gained being referred to, not the drug.
    Ok, sure.
    All drugs ever did for me was to give me insight (reaffirmation, so to speak) into what I already knew was, in fact, true.
    There are many dimensions that we can not inherently "sense" with the 5 senses we consider "normal".
    Drugs are not required to "sense" them is all I'm saying, and all drugs did was give me a distorted view of the other dimensions.
    Most were born with enhanced senses, above and beyond the 5 we consider normal.
    Many have merely forgotten how to access or use them.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Quote Posted by dynamo (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    ...
    Not exactly true ... the insights you gain don't leave - you can program over them with your old beliefs, if you don't change your repetitive and programmed behaviors based on those insights but these are insights gained being referred to, not the drug.
    Ok, sure.
    All drugs ever did for me was to give me insight (reaffirmation, so to speak) into what I already knew was, in fact, true.
    There are many dimensions that we can not inherently "sense" with the 5 senses we consider "normal".
    Drugs are not required to "sense" them is all I'm saying, and all drugs did was give me a distorted view of the other dimensions.
    Most were born with enhanced senses, above and beyond the 5 we consider normal.
    Many have merely forgotten how to access or use them.
    I am not even sure how the argument turned into whether or not drugs are needed for "enlightenment". No one has ever claimed they are.

    Consider that when you say: " ... all drugs did was give me a distorted view of the other dimensions." that to someone who does not believe in anything they can't sense with their five sense, this is incredibly profound - in just the sensing more than their believed reality alone. This is exactly the kind of insight I refer to ... you can't "unlearn" that stuff ...

    If you've only done drugs for recreational purpose, then obviously that is not the same as when you have an experience purposefully to have an introspective experience.

    And to be clear, we are talking about "hallucinogenic" experiences here -- this is completely not at all what any other drugs are like or do to your mind. To compare say cocaine, cannabis, alcohol, heroin, to LSD, Psilacybin, or DMT is to make distinct how these are nothing at all alike in the experience they give.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 14th June 2018 at 23:59.
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    I'm supporting Dynamo on his OP and thread title literally verbatim.

    Seems Dynamo knows his thread's topic and original video well enough plus posted the disclaimer about McKenna not being what he made himself out to be..

    Quote (dynamo says - " Recently, I have read that Terrence may be a disinfo agent but I always appreciate positive messages hence I am sharing this video.

    Take it as you would any other "fringe information"...")
    Dynamo's post title, once again: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth and a movie showing button pushing images, with a title on the movie "we must change our minds"

    We have the power to choose how we look at things, how we interpret things, it is our right to choose, and no-one is going to dictate we need to do it this way or that. Or be forced to use any accelerator or psychotropic, or disassociative, or hallucinative. To try to convince people that they need to change their pace I think is disrespectful. To try to convince people one's belief is crap and their belief is better is questionable. To try to convince people with intense button pushing drama that they need to change their mind is psychodrama. One is going to point that out if if one is awake and aware and seeing as-it-is, with one's own eyes, with one's own mind, unadulterated and clean.

    In Post 29 below I post a short 6 minute moving image using the concept of AWAKENING without using psychedelics, a different way to take the HIGH ROAD instead of corelevel confrontational assault bashing humanity.
    Last edited by Bob; 15th June 2018 at 04:34.
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    "In the 1960s, there was a popular belief – popularised by psychedelic pioneers like Timothy Leary and others (including McKenna):


    – that hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD could provide ‘chemical enlightenment’, a way of circumventing the years of arduous spiritual practice which monks and other spiritual path seekers put themselves through in order to attain a permanent higher state of consciousness.

    Why spend years meditating and practising self-denial when you can just alter your brain chemistry directly, by taking psychedelics? It soon became apparent that this was naive, and that regular LSD usage was much more likely to generate psychological breakdown than spiritual awakening.

    And many of those – such as Timothy Leary himself – who originally used LSD as a way of expanding consciousness eventually began to use drugs hedonistically, as a way of escaping boredom and discord, after their ‘chemical enlightenment’ project had failed.

    Nowadays, psychoactive substances such as Ayahuasca and DMT are widely used with a spiritual intention, as a means of self-exploration and self-expansion. Ayahuasca in particular has (achieved) a similar status as an ‘elixir of enlightenment’ to LSD in the 1960s.

    I don’t think there is any doubt that psychedelics can generate temporary higher states of consciousness (or ‘awakening experiences’, as I prefer to call them). Some writers on mysticism – usually from a religious background – have argued that psychedelic awakening experiences can’t be ‘genuine,’ because they are artificially induced. But this is surely short-sighted and prejudiced.

    Psychedelic awakening experiences feature many of the same characteristics of other awakening experiences – intensified perception of one’s surroundings, a sense of connection or oneness to the world and revelations about the nature of reality, and so on. I’ve collected many reports of psychedelic-induced awakening experiences which feature these aspects (some of which I quote from in my book Waking From Sleep).

    But although psychedelics can bring temporary awakening experiences, I think it’s very unlikely that they can lead to a permanent higher state of consciousness – that is, a state of ‘enlightenment,’ or in my preferred term, ‘wakefulness.’

    The reason for this is that psychedelics are basically dissolutive – that is, they achieve their effect by dissolving away our normal mental structures, and putting our normal psychological mechanisms out of action. (I like to use the term 'self-system' for these structures and mechanisms.)

    When the normal self-system dissolves away, our sense of boundary disappears, so that we no longer experience separateness. Our normal concepts of ourselves and of reality fade away too, so that we feel we’re looking at the world and ourselves in a completely new way. The contents of our subconscious mind may open up into our conscious mind, as the boundary between them fades away as well.

    This is fine for temporary awakening experiences, but permanent wakefulness can only occur if there is a new self-system to replace the normal one. It’s not enough to dissolve the sense of self – a new self has to replace it.

    This is the major difference between prolonged spiritual practice and psychedelics. Prolonged spiritual practice (such as regular meditation or the following of a path such as the eightfold path of Buddhism, or the eight-limbed path of yoga) will gradually form a new self which will slowly supplant your old self – a self-system with much softer boundaries, a much less powerful sense of individuality and separateness, intensified perception, much reduced associational ‘thought-chatter’ and so on. This self-system may be so subtle and integrated within the whole of our being that you might not even notice that it’s there.

    In other words, spiritual practice is basically constructive – it gradually changes the structures of consciousness, re-moulding our self-system into a higher functioning form. But psychedelics don’t facilitate the emergence of a new self-system.

    With the regular use of psychedelics, the danger is that the structures of the normal self-system will completely dissolve way, and without another self-system to supplant it, there will simply be a psychic vacuum, which equates with a state of psychosis.

    And unfortunately there have been many cases of this.

    In fact, you could say that this is really the only permanent psychological change which the regular use of psychedelics can bring: not awakening, but psychosis."
    ref: Steve Taylor is a senior lecturer in psychology at Leeds Beckett University, UK.

    What one is left with then is a PLASTIC MODEL of a mind - moldable by whomever usually the psycho-drama driver, i.e. "programmer" of one's "new mind". Personality identity you were born with gone, shaped into the desire of the will of the chemist, or State, or ??

    Who's Paradise are we supposed to go to? Who is going to define that for us? What is Paradise? What is a "degraded Humanity" (to paraphrase other references in the thread) going to consider Paradise? Using a heavy duty hallucinogen is most certainly not going to create a permanent healed individual all the sudden understanding God, or Compassion or Unconditional Love, or tolerance or a higher vision for survival of the species.. (IMHO of course !!)

    One doesn't need the hallucinogenic, nor the disassociative to reach "ideal state", with a clean pure body. That is my belief.

    I took the spiritual path.

    Quote This is the major difference between prolonged spiritual practice and psychedelics. Prolonged spiritual practice (such as regular meditation or the following of a path such as the eightfold path of Buddhism, or the eight-limbed path of yoga) will gradually form a new self which will slowly supplant your old self – a self-system with much softer boundaries, a much less powerful sense of individuality and separateness, intensified perception, much reduced associational ‘thought-chatter’ and so on. This self-system may be so subtle and integrated within the whole of our being that you might not even notice that it’s there.

    In other words, spiritual practice is basically constructive – it gradually changes the structures of consciousness, re-moulding our self-system into a higher functioning form. But psychedelics don’t facilitate the emergence of a new self-system.
    Last edited by Bob; 15th June 2018 at 02:15.
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Understanding awakening without psychedelics - approx 6 minutes playtime - the keyword is AWAKE..

    Each of us play our part in creating a new story for humanity and our planet ~

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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Once the ego is dissolved away ... the true self is what remains ... If temporary, you get a glimpse into the distinction between the true self and the programs that constitute the ego. It never ceases to amaze me how backwards things are perceived ... but then again "books smarts" don't know jack compared to experience. Who can argue?
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Once the ego is dissolved away ... the true self is what remains ... If temporary, you get a glimpse into the distinction between the true self and the programs that constitute the ego. It never ceases to amaze me how backwards things are perceived ... but then again "books smarts" don't know jack compared to experience. Who can argue?
    I like this post Dedukshun. Very true. Lord knows I tried arguing. It just doesn't work.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with somebody when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous"

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  23. Link to Post #32
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Once the ego is dissolved away ... the true self is what remains ... If temporary, you get a glimpse into the distinction between the true self and the programs that constitute the ego. It never ceases to amaze me how backwards things are perceived ... but then again "books smarts" don't know jack compared to experience. Who can argue?
    I like this post Dedukshun. Very true. Lord knows I tried arguing. It just doesn't work.
    Thanks, But just in case you weren't aware, It was a response this from bob's post above specifically:
    Quote .. the structures of the normal self-system will completely dissolve way, ...
    - you may want to re-check if it still applies, considering this is exactly why the "insight" I refer to from a "trip" has value.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 16th June 2018 at 04:25. Reason: removed nonsense.
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    Default Re: Terence McKenna: “We Have The Power To Create Paradise On Earth”

    Thanks. That's how I read it.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with somebody when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous"

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