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Thread: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

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    Canada Avalon Member
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    Wink Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Ok I know the title doesn't sound exactly upbeat, but this is the question I've been pondering upon, for a really really long time. So I decided to post it here so as to know what you guys think.

    Based on the following facts:
    1/ Our world is & has always been ruled and controlled by those who are more into power than spirituality. And they don't really have their people's best interest in mind.

    2/ A greed-based economic system which pushes us towards materialistic lifestyles & away from spirituality.

    3/ The Singularity has already taken place.

    4/ Governments of many countries are censoring & controlling flows of info on the Internet more and more, aiming to keep their people subservient at best, and ignorant at worst.

    5/ Human nature is so easily corrupted, living in an entropy-based universe.

    ...etc...which lead me to the conclusion which I shared in my previous thread about having children: I vote against having children, simply because this planet doesn't look like an ideal place for them to have their journey. Of course there were many different responses but some of them were about the fact that without children, humanity will cease to exist.

    Now, I've been thinking, since the dawn of our current civilization, there've been a lot of revolutions and changes in human society. But one thing never seems to change: those with power always oppress those without it, regardless of how spiritually awakened the people've become (think Jesus Christ, the Buddha and Li Hongzhi from Falun Gong - all great spiritual leaders & movements, but got oppressed or neglected eventually).

    All the social & technological advancement seems to lead us nowhere but control & separation - between the authorities & the people; technology & nature; men & women; digitality & spirituality...etc...Sure, we can cure illnesses which we couldn't in the past, but it seems like whatever previous issues we're able to solve, we always replace them with the new ones. It's been said that human civilizations exist in repeating cycles after all.

    These make me wonder whether it's worth looking forward to any bright future that humanity may hopefully be heading to. Or are humans simply prone to corruption and selfishness. What do you guys think?

    Many thanks in advance!!

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    I paused for quite a while before replying here. I think it's a very legitimate question.

    Let me just say this.

    If the human race was a intelligent organism, which arguably it is, it's
    1. Sick.
    2. Violent.
    3. Psychopathic.
    The organism has been toxically infected, of course. I'd argue from external agencies. One could even say it's been poisoned. That's the root of the problem.

    The question is how to fix all that — if it's possible at all.

    Some external agencies may be trying to help cure (or even save) the patient. Others may have deliberately caused the problem in the first place.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    I ask myself this question often. It's a tricky one. I also often ponder the following question: is human nature good, or evil, by default? These are questions we've all been asking ourselves for centuries.

    My answer, at this point in time, is: I don't know. I really don't. There are some days where the anger and the disgust takes over, and I'm convinced we're parasites that deserve eventual extinction.

    I think of the Holocaust. Of the bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the aftermath that is still felt to this day. I think of the Vietnam war, and Agent Orange. Of the Rape of Nanking, Unit 731, of pedophile rings and the murder of Junko Furuta and the Toy Box Killer's audio tapes and donkey shows and human trafficking, of the Salem Witch trials, of lynchings of black people, of slavery, and the Native Americans. And when you really, truly look at those, without censorship, without hiding, without denial, you see a side of us that is as dark and depraved and evil as any being I'm sure is out there.

    But then, something beautiful happens. I remember memories of my childhood in Paris, and how gorgeous and vibrant that city is. I look at how amazing technology has become. At the science we're only just beginning to uncover, from pioneers like Michael Pollan, Graham Hancock, Neri Oxman, and many, many others. I watch videos where people put themselves in danger to save a stray dog, or go out of their way to play with terminally ill children, or an article I read awhile ago where something like 30 people formed a human chain at a beach to help pull a kid out from a riptide a ways out of the shore. I remember instances where people give up their lives to save others, of white supremacists that did a 180 and became lifelong friends with black people, or of art, pure and simple. I look at the wonders we've created in our time here. How so many of us just want to live simple, peaceful lives with those we love, or to heal the Earth.

    And it's then that I rethink my initial assessment.

    Furthermore, if you start to entertain the narratives that people like David Icke push, or similar ideas, then you have to ask yourself: how much of what we do, or have done, or how we are now, is directly our fault? When you've been tampered with and enslaved without even knowing it, what is the definition of free will? Where is the line that is drawn between being a victim of circumstance, vs taking responsibility for your actions, your choices?

    I don't have an answer to any of that.

    But if tomorrow, I could be given the power to painlessly end all of mankind, I wouldn't exercise it. I don't know that we deserve to explore the cosmos and live in total peace, but I'll also fight for what is right, always.

    So let that stand for what it's worth.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    If the human race was a intelligent organism, which arguably it is, it's
    1. Sick.
    2. Violent.
    3. Psychopathic.
    The organism has been toxically infected, of course. I'd argue from external agencies. One could even say it's been poisoned. That's the root of the problem.

    The question is how to fix all that — if it's possible at all.
    While I don't entirely disagree with you, I don't think that you can make such strong generalisations, Bill. Because while some obviously do, not every single individual exhibits those personality and behavorial traits. In fact, the vast majority of the individuals don't exhibit them, but despise them. And I would even go so far as to say that those who do exhibit these traits are the vast minority. It just so happens that the minority of that minority is overwhelmingly powerful and is therefore capable of - and certainly in the process of - poisoning the well whereby most of us are affected in some way or another.

    But in the the very same vain I could say that the human race is also inherently
    1. Loving;
    2. Caring;
    3. Empathetic;
    4. Courageous;
    5. Good-hearted,
    6. peace-oriented, and;
    7. Persevering.

    And I would say that the people exhibiting those traits actually make up the vast majority of the whole.

    So I don't think that we should sit back, wait, and let our collective destiny depend on some hypothetical external agency to come and cure the patient. I think that we are that cure, and the most potent one at that. And I think that we can be equally as viral, if not more so, than the toxicity that is currently being spread through our societies by the above mentioned minuscule minority. Many of us just have to reclaim responsibility over our lives and actions and actively work toward making that change happen. Which, yes, can be incredibly difficult, but not impossible.

    And so I think the question of whether or not the human race is worth saving is a ridiculous question to ask. Quite shameful, actually. And while I can understand that some might see this attempt at saving our race as being nearly impossible, that doesn't mean that it's no longer worth it to even try, does it?

    Nobody here delights in seeing so many of our fellow human beings suffer in the way that they do. Nobody receives joy from seeing people get killed in these alleged terror attacks. Nobody finds happiness in reading that the suicide rate has increased by nearly 25% over the last 20 years. Nobody likes to be personally involved in situations of conflict. We don't like those things. And we don't because most of us just want what's best for all of us and want to live in peace and harmony with each other. And we do because deep down we absolutely know that we are capable of that.

    So yes, of course humanity is worth saving.
    Last edited by Rhah; 14th June 2018 at 19:33.

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    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    History has shown us how brutal humans can be to each other and the earth.

    But, on a day to day basis, I would say most of us treat each other as if there is a piece of the Logos in all of us. Another way of saying that, is that most of us treat each other as if each of us is meaningful and worthy of respect. One can make an intellectual argument that we're not, but i think we all know, intrinsically, that we are. Thats why society, in most places, is ordered and relatively coherent.

    An ordered society is a miraculous thing! I think we take that for granted! I think we've become spoiled, and too accustomed to the wonderful things humanity has produced to properly appreciate them. My God! The electrical grid! Abundant food! Running water! Spend a couple days without this stuff and you'll see it for the absolute miracle it is.

    Our basic infrastructure is a miracle. Roads. Bridges. Architecture. There's cars and airplanes and smartphones . Stop and think one moment about all the variables and organization and energy and intellect that had to go into producing all those things. The bus arrives precisely at 3:12 to pick you up for work each day! It's taken thousands of years of human evolution to arrive at the coherence required to make this world go round....its nothing to sneeze at.

    Humanity is worth saving, if for no other reason than this: what's the alternative??? Quitting? Nihilism? Anarchy? Destroying everything that has taken sooooo long to achieve???

    Only individuals can give meanings to their lives..no outside agency. If enough individuals do this, and everyone has meaning and is treating everyone else as if they also have meaning, now we have a coherent, sane structure..based on respect and purpose. From there the possibilities are endless. Getting there is the trick, of course. We've been manipulated from the outside and we've manipulated ourselves. The controlling aspects of the world are largely insane, but the people haven't quite succumbed yet. We're still fighting...and for that reason it's worth keeping and saving

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    The world is full of negativity, yet is also full of so much potential and beauty. There is so much good (hidden) in people's hearts, I know that. We truly can create heaven on Earth instead of hell, the former has become too familiar to us at times.

    When ever I lose hope and feel depressed about the state of humanity due to all of the cruelty and injustice, I just return to this quote.

    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    If the world were a utopia, we'd destroy it. Besides, we're bad at trying to create utopias....history has proven that. They wind up being brutal, oppressive, totalitarian regimes.

    If the world were a utopia, I don't think there'd be any point in being here.

    We're supposed to have controversy, challenges, and yes, even tragedies. Life is largely tragic.

    But it's a world of relativity. No 'up' without 'down'....no 'good' without 'bad' . Which is precisely why a utopia would fail - there wouldn't be sufficient relativity and we'd take for granted and get bored with our good fortune. And then, we'd destroy it.

    The world can and should be better! There is no excuse for things like the holocaust, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, and so on.

    But there will always be something in need of fixing. It's like that old saying goes "it's the journey that matters, not the result".

    Consider that for a second: as human beings, we often feel most fulfilled during the journey to get something done...not the actual conclusion of that journey. In fact, we're often strangely disappointed when a challenging journey ends, and we've achieved what we set out to achieve..

    ..and to have journeys, we need controversies.

    So the world will always be a challenge, and human beings will always be in the middle of it....fighting not to succomb to our most base instincts and striving to demonstrate our most noble. That's what so many archetypal stories are about, from the bible to many of the movies we see today on the big screen.

    It's an ENORMOUS challenge, so we shouldn't be too quick to judge ourselves harshly.
    Last edited by Mike; 14th June 2018 at 20:27.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Good Question. I think if they re-attach our other 10 strands of DNA we would be truly Magikal and therefore Gods as we once were. Till then we are just fish in an aquarium not knowing how great we can truly be. If this makes sense. Lol

    But on the other hand, " Earth is a university in which we learn"... Dolores Cannon

    So....
    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 14th June 2018 at 20:40.
    "Although I Live On This World, I Choose Not To Live In It"
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    Mourning Dove Salish


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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    If the world were a utopia, we'd destroy it.
    It once was, and we already are.






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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    From Grandma Cannon:
    We all begin with God (the Creator or Source) and are sent out to learn and experience. Many other planets have easier courses of learning. The Earth school is the most difficult in the universe; only the bravest souls sign on for this assignment.

    Attaining complete consciousness takes a very long time, but the universe does not care or mind. You have all of eternity to work it out before you return to God and total bliss. In the schools created by man in this world, you cannot jump from kindergarten to college, so why would the school of life be any different. If you fail a class or lesson, you have to repeat that grade until you get it right. It is that simple.

    In order to complete the Earth school we have to experience everything and we have to know what it is like to be everything! How can we understand all life if we don’t know what it is like to be all life forms? We don’t start out as humans. That comes much later.

    The first step for a soul’s consciousness is experiencing life in the simplest forms imaginable, the elements: air and other gasses, liquids, solids such as rocks, and even the earth itself. Everything is made of energy and has consciousness! You must always start at the beginning in any type of school here on Earth, and that also applies to the school of life.
    "Although I Live On This World, I Choose Not To Live In It"
    <:~W.F.~:>

    "The answer to every question can be found in nature, if one knows how to look and listen”
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    "Everything on the Earth has a purpose, Every disease a herb to cure it, and every person a mission. This is the Indian theory of existence".
    Mourning Dove Salish


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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    I will give a short answer to the question "Is humanity worth keeping/saving? " There must be one corollary question answered before one can answer the main question. That is "Worth it to who?"

    To me. what else matters?

    Humanity is worth keeping/saving to me. I suspect that humanity is worth keeping/saving to most people reading this thread. Thus the original question is answered: Yes.

    As far as others entities are concerned, I don't care. They will do what they will do to us or for us as they wish. Or have been doing for a long time. I am my own person and reject all potential claims made upon me.
    - Warren Light

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    If we put the question to the universe I believe there would only be one answer - 'well, are you???'

    There is perfection to whatever happens, in that if we get destroyed, it will be the spiritual lesson that we chose, by our actions. If we thrive , it will be our creation, and some kind of chaotic middle path will also be our collective creation.

    It is a collective process, so we signed up to come to a reality where we might do great things but still collectively 'fail' and suffer. We are all part of the one, and the only thing that makes sense to me morally, is that we chose to incarnate into a game where there are many possible outcomes.

    What we are up against seems to be very dark, clever, technologically pre-eminent, and predatory. It may be a dark care taker force that leaves depending on certain factors that WE create- or not.

    There are plenty of signs that we are in some kind of end game or timeline fork. The infrastructure needed to extinguish the human race is carefully being constructed and deployed. Also the infrastructure to keep us living in an ever more tyrannical electronic battery farm appears to be one possible future.

    Wheres the fairness in placing us in such a seemingly un-winnable predicament, where tptb are super clever and control everything?


    The challenge for humans is not to beat the tech, guns, and evil ones. All we have to do is be human. We have to reject the tyranny using argument, protest, democracy, and love.If we are seen to be doing this to a sufficient level, help is there for us. Will we as a civilisation, survive? That challenge is entirely in our hands. If we cannot master the basics, we are not fit to progress to a galactic species.

    There are some epic and very hopeful things happening now. As always its down to what the mass of humanity decide.No agency can challenge that mass decision. No higher group can do more than lead the horse to water.

    If we win, we will have learned so much, it will be a truly beautiful thing.

    Thanks for such a good question.
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Canada Avalon Member Justplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    We should not pretend that we are qualified to sit in judgement as to whether humanity is worthwhile or not. To do so is quite pretentious, imho.

    As Bill noted above, as recorded by Truman Cash's research, and witnessed by the countless alien abductions, malelovant et's have been brainwashing and manipulating humanity throughout our existence. Some, like David Icke, postulate that these evil aliens have bred their dna into Earth's wealthiest families, who in turn control activities on this world in a psychopathic manner. These same et's likely control the upper levels of the world's notorious secret societies, which in turn control big business and government.

    So, we should not get too critical of humanity's problems. Many of those difficulties are not self induced. In fact, i think it is a major miracle that we aren't more screwed up.

    I think the positive posts about people in this thread are bang on. People are fantastic, complex creatures, with wonderful creativity and have the capacity for compassion and love on a very high level. It is very wise to keep this in mind.

    Don Juan spent a good deal of time teaching Castaneda that he shouldn't jump to conclusions about other people and their problems, to judge others as being worse off than you, or being so terrible for one reason or another, because to do so is a valuation based upon a flawed belief system which often makes the judge feel superior in some subtle way. Unless you know all the facts you cant know everything that is going on, so dont try to set yourself as the judge. Unfortunately, that is one of the ways our linear brains operate, judging everything, but it is something we are better off being aware of, and work around as best we can.

    Humanity will work its way out of its troubles. Most, if not all of us, are involved heavily in 'service to others', whether it be our families, our employers or some just cause. This aspect of our nature has already 'saved' us. And, i truly believe we are getting help from above.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Great question, even greater answers, but alas I will say no, I wish I could effectively articulate why i feel this way but I find words fail me.

    I can look at the day to day living and see amazing examples of beauty, love, kindness and compassion, but lately I am also starting to see a poisoning too, has it always been there and I was blind to it? I don't know, though I think it has flowed from the top down and I don't know or care who or what is at the top running all this, but we can't hold back a tsunami with buckets and like previous civilizations we will get to a level of 'advancement' and destroy it all, then reborn and do it again, we will hit the same stumbling block never learning and fall again. It's tiring to say the least.

    The only problem is what will replace it? All i know it will be a case of the new boss being the same as the old boss with us pawns stuck at the bottom believing that eventually we will prosper and win. It's the ultimate trap and we are all caught within the web, struggling with just living in this prison without even of thinking of spiritual advancement. Well played and we got suckered.

    I guess I can liken it to dropping some food colouring into a glass of water, eventually it spreads and touches everything. Perhaps a reset is necessary, but I still feel as it currently stands all roads lead to the same end, unless the starting parameters are changed which I can't see happening.

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    United States Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    My take on the people of this world is very different than yours.

    I think we have a tendency to paint people with a very broad brush. Because we constantly see greed, corruption, sickness, terrorism, and crime in our TVs, movies, and internet we have a tendency to think that the majority of people are like that. Nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of people currently living on this planet are healthy, not terrorist, not greedy, don't commit crime and they are not corrupt. Most people want to find an element of happiness in their lives whether they have money or not.

    We are here for a reason, we are on a journey and this life is only one of the stops along the way. We should embrace this life and work on our own spirituality (that could and will be different for each of us). We should be constantly focused on our lives and what we can contribute (no matter how small) to improve the lives of others. If we focus on the negative and give up even a small bit of our living experience we are wasting our time here.

    Yes, the ebb and flow of daily life can be difficult but if you let those individuals who appear to be in control pull you into a negative daily grind than you have missed the entire point of living.

    The truth is............we are the powers that be. Our current situation is comparable to 10 prison guards controlling 10,000 prisoners. All we have to do is to wake up to the fact that we have the power, we are the ones to be reckoned with and we can change everything overnight. Many of us, particularly here chase enlightenment or the truth and when they see things for what they are it becomes very frustrating.

    People will wake up in droves one day and make a change. People wake up or change for two reasons, they are either angry enough or fearful enough to force a change in their lives. This change will be strong enough to change governments and the world at large. It will upset the balance of power so much that there will be no going back. The reason for the change/enlightenment may not be on the horizon but it is coming. In the meantime feeling hopeless and resentful is foolish and does not accomplish anything for ourselves or society.
    Last edited by rgray222; 15th June 2018 at 02:54.

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    Australia Moderator Rachel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Is humanity worth saving?

    We are an amnesiac race of beings and despite crushing forces working against it we are slowly but surely breaking out of the confines of our limited perception of ourselves. Our desire to know the truth is insatiable, we will surely continue along our path as champions of light.

    In our current state, who amongst us is fit to judge that humanity needs saving? Stripping the question down to what we can ask; is humanity worth continuing?

    How do we assess what we’re worth? We need to know our potential and then we need to know the value of our potential.

    Many of us here know our potential, it is infinitely powerful and divine but what is that worth? Is it worth all the suffering we have and will endure along the way to maturity? If we are unique in our potential then I would answer yes but I can’t see far enough myself to know that for certain and even if another human could see far enough it would be little use to me or anyone else as it’s something we each need to see, hence know for ourselves. Perhaps we are worth it even if we aren’t unique, who knows?

    We need to reach a point beyond our current scope of perception to accurately answer the question the OP has asked yet we must continue our path without knowing the answer.

    If the NWO becomes fully manifested then it is game over, due to what must happen between now and then for it to become fully manifest, it would not be worth saving a broken race of beings (in that state it would undoubtedly be a case of saving).

    But let this not be a story of the faithless, a lack of faith in ourselves. We are a mystery to ourselves, that is exciting, and if we don’t make it to full maturity (I personally believe we will) then let us be a story of the courageous.



    Last edited by Rachel; 15th June 2018 at 04:46.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    UK Avalon Member Sunny-side-up's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Hi woomap and yes of course it is

    Some humans are the most beautiful of beings, but majority of are just animals of no minded direction.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    UK Avalon Member Sunny-side-up's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Hi Bill

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    If the world were a utopia, we'd destroy it.
    It once was, and we already are.





    We where originally Designed to be like that
    Glad to say that so many have now broken from their design and would love and tend to this planet and all it's life forms

    If we had the right kind of governing structure and leaders we could be in a truly wondrous position as a species.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Ireland Avalon Member David Trd1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The organism has been toxically infected, of course. I'd argue from external agencies. One could even say it's been poisoned. That's the root of the problem.

    The question is how to fix all that — if it's possible at all.

    Some external agencies may be trying to help cure (or even save) the patient. Others may have deliberately caused the problem in the first place.
    Perfectly put Bill!!
    ''Truth can only be reconciled when an honest man becomes''


    ''Love is your Truth
    Your centering point''

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    If we weren't worth saving, then why would we be here?
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""When a society is afraid of it's poets, it is afraid of itself." Lenore Kandel

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