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Thread: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

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    Sweden Avalon Member Antihero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Yes - we should attempt to raise the level of consiousness with positivity and patience. We can also do the opposite as we all know... we have a choice as to what direction, heaven or hell.
    Be blessed by the eternal fire!

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Hey guys! You might know that the value of a house is only whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it. The value of wilderness land is only what people are willing to sacrifice to keep it pristine. The value of your own personal body is only what you are willing to do to keep it healthy. My point is that an object's value is usually attributed by an outside opinion.

    When you evaluate other people, you must make judgement calls that are generally quite inaccurate.

    So, when I read the posts in this thread, I see little reference to any potential outside (ET) assessors. It is well known that people are very poor at assessing their own value. They generally miss the mark way too low - with a few exceptions.

    I actually think that this question is pointless.
    - Warren Light

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    Australia Moderator Rachel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    I never considered anyone elseís assessment (non-human), since our pesonal views and attitudes are the only ones that matter, literally, but I learned from my Neale Donald Walsch moment that Earth and ALL her inhabitants are one, stunningly beautiful, and faultless (blameless, innocent) in Godís eyes. If any ET tried to tell me otherwise Iíd tell them to zip it.
    Last edited by Rachel; 16th June 2018 at 01:02.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Rachel (here)
    I learned from my Neale Donald Walsch moment that Earth and ALL her inhabitants are one, stunningly beautiful, and faultless in Godís eyes.
    Well, maybe God has quality control problems.

    (Or, as has been seriously argued, he's sitting on his hands waiting for us to destroy our local paradise so that we can all learn a lesson about responsibility and care.)

    I could point readers here at images (some have been posted as links quite a while back on Houman's extraordinary thread) that might make anyone vomit and have nightmares for several days. Not a joke.

    There's nothing 'stunningly beautiful' about that. Not a thing.

    If we can't honestly acknowledge the reality of the problems ó and they're dormant or partly active in all of us, never 100.00% 'out there' ó we've not got a hope in hell (there has to be a joke in that idiom, somewhere) in fixing anything and making it through to a Better World.

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    Australia Moderator Rachel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Rachel (here)
    I learned from my Neale Donald Walsch moment that Earth and ALL her inhabitants are one, stunningly beautiful, and faultless in Godís eyes.
    Well, maybe God has quality control problems.

    (Or, as has been seriously argued, he's sitting on his hands waiting for us to destroy our local paradise so that we can all learn a lesson about responsibility and care.)

    I could point readers here at images (some have been posted as links quite a while back on Houman's extraordinary thread) that might make anyone vomit and have nightmares for several days. Not a joke.

    There's nothing 'stunningly beautiful' about that. Not a thing.

    If we can't honestly acknowledge the reality of the problems ó and they're dormant or partly active in all of us, never 100.00% 'out there' ó we've not got a hope in hell (there has to be a joke in that idiom, somewhere) in fixing anything and making it through to a Better World.
    IDK if it makes any difference but I clarified after you quoted me; faultless as in blameless. I had asked God, in a very upset manner mind you, why the arseholes were allowed to run amok and terrorise the planet and God made it very clear that I was also those arseholes, in a much kinder way of course.

    I mostly agree with you, goodness I hope I havenít come off as being in denial of reality. Not possible, Iím an empath, the suffering on this planet and my own pain is like a tattoo, even when Iím not focused on it itís always there and I wouldnít incarnate here if I wasnít doing something about it.

    Iíll leave it to others to beat up on humanity though, Iím not doing that, humanity needs to believe in itself.

    Edit: My head is still ranting. In case it needs to be stated, please donít confuse my words of encouragement with having my head in the clouds. Humanity largely feels helpless and disempowered, if only humanity knew just how magical it is it would sort this all out in no time. Yes, magical. Thatís my role, to remind humanity who it really is (a generalised description but close enough).
    Last edited by Rachel; 16th June 2018 at 04:47.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    If the world were a utopia, we'd destroy it.
    It once was, and we already are.
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Rachel (here)
    I learned from my Neale Donald Walsch moment that Earth and ALL her inhabitants are one, stunningly beautiful, and faultless in Godís eyes.
    Well, maybe God has quality control problems.

    (Or, as has been seriously argued, he's sitting on his hands waiting for us to destroy our local paradise so that we can all learn a lesson about responsibility and care.)

    I could point readers here at images (some have been posted as links quite a while back on Houman's extraordinary thread) that might make anyone vomit and have nightmares for several days. Not a joke.

    There's nothing 'stunningly beautiful' about that. Not a thing.

    If we can't honestly acknowledge the reality of the problems ó and they're dormant or partly active in all of us, never 100.00% 'out there' ó we've not got a hope in hell (there has to be a joke in that idiom, somewhere) in fixing anything and making it through to a Better World.
    What's with the constant negativity all of a sudden, Bill? This is not the Bill I have come to know and respect.

    You used to be a beacon of hope to many, but to me you seem to now have given up most, if not all, of that hope. One could even say, judging by the grim and sinister outlook on life you seem to be portraying in your posts in this thread, that you are somewhat depressed. Are you disappointed by something, perhaps?

    You know that your posts carry a lot of weight here on this forum, so I don't see why you would keep harping on about the false idea that we're all as good as doomed at this point. How exactly is that a helpful contribution to the forum?

    And why you would link to a six year old thread containing (I sure hope some fake) pictures of mutilated and maimed bodies, babies chewing on bloodied chopped-off hands, fridges filled with body parts and various other depictions of violence to make an unnecessary statement about the evil and ugly nature of humanity truly is beyond me. I don't think any of us here need to be visually reminded of the darkside of our being. We all know it's there and that it's capable of doing unspeakably despicable things. In fact, I'm convinced that most of us here joined Avalon for the very reason of getting away from that darkside and to connect with our fellow brothers and sisters that are fighting for the Light. Because I need not remind you that we also have very, very bright and beautiful side to our being which is active in the vast majority of our people and is therefore capable of completely eradicating all of the darkness you seem to want us to know has the upperhand.

    If, perhaps, you are privy to some information that justifies the negative outlook you seem to have on life and the future of humanity at this point, I'd appreciate it if you'd share it with the rest of us and make us understand, instead of inconclusively trying to remind us of all the evil that we are and do, without any regard for all the good that we equally are and do.
    So, personally, because what you say carries a lot of weight here, I'd much rather you try and encourage us to maintain hope and do good, rather than to spread unnecessary and harmful negativity.

    It's Yin and Yang, Bill. And from where I'm standing, Yang is winning.

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    UK Avalon Member YoYoYo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ...
    Well, maybe God has quality control problems. ...
    Quality control? more like a divine solution to freedom. We have freedom and freedom to create free things. Control doesn't really fit there as I see it

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ...
    (Or, as has been seriously argued, he's sitting on his hands waiting for us to destroy our local paradise so that we can all learn a lesson about responsibility and care.)
    ...
    Given the gift of freedom, how else can we learn? If God doesn't sit on their hands how is it really freedom.
    >> "we can all learn a lesson about responsibility and care"
    Hallelujah

    How twisted that our mistakes that we learn from are used as an absolute way to stunt us. The groundwork for this trap is immense: From Gnostic Christian to Catholic. The shift seems to have swung from "God has given you freedom" to "You are bad so you must be punished"

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    RE: Is humanity worth keeping/saving?
    When you say humanity I can assume you mean the humans on this planet, as human is a universal aspect that is populated universe wide. I strongly feel that this planet has a good future and is worth saving. I argue human nature is not the worst qualities but all of our qualities and this planet is a bad example of humans in the universe.
    Founder of Universal Aspectsô
    universalaspects.io & universalaspects.com

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    This question about humanity lingered through many years, but as a stimulant to build my personal-philosophic adventure. Without powerful internal stimulants, i might have fallen into much worse external, debilitating stimulants, (or depressants). Or perhaps crutches of mental boredom or depression.

    Where life is accepted as some kind of learning or some kind of evolutional experience, a stimulating motivation is welcome. That is how totalitarian outcomes can stir up individuals to build a worthwhile perspective and build better worlds, beyond this wounded world. (Is there a scarcity of worlds beyond this world? really?)
    Last edited by wavydome; 16th June 2018 at 15:55. Reason: edit~ changed word: dying to wounded.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Bill referenced a long time ago the movie "Starman" where in the one scene Jeff Bridges is from another world and says" Why is it you humans are at your best when things are at their worst". 9/11 was an example of that for a while where everyone was at their very best after that. My friend from high school who is a private detective said to me once that 10% of the people out there are gamers in this system and will take from you at any given moment without a conscious. I never forgot that and if you open a door for them they will come in I assure you . However, that leaves 90% of the population who just want to live in peace and just enjoy the life path that was suppose to be. Good ,genuine and true.

    Unfortunately, there is that phrase that calls us to duty once and a while to defend the good ,even when its not what we want to do but are demanded to do " When good men do nothing evil prevails". So there is the ying and yang effect but it's an understanding. Life is a pendulum, it swings back and forth and always comes back to center only to start swinging again in one direction or another. If you understand and accept that we are all on the ride of life's pendulum and have some Teflon shoulders not sweating the small stuff , you will find your harmony and balance, if you stay knee deep in it and don't step away once and a while to reflect, pause, and be thankful for all of the little things that actually are the most important of all, follow the senses we have and there is your answer, if you don't step back you will drive yourself crazy and be miserable.

    So is humanity worth keeping? or Saving? ............................... As today is my birthday and my day has just started I went over to a customer of mine who handed me an ice cream b-day cake at 6:45am, then as we talked about business he paid me for a job and sold me one of his pick up trucks at a great deal and brought it over to my shop this morning all unexpected . My truck has 243,000 miles on it and still runs great but it was time. The last 5 years for me have truly been tough, lawsuit, struggling financially, my dogs having to put to sleep and on and on. I've never been one to worry about much, I've lost everything once business, divorce, brother suing me ect , ect and all at the same time. Then had my grandmother pass away, another relative and a very good friend all on the same day during that time. 3 funerals in one day, what a numbing day that was. Where am I going with this, as the pendulum swings I've always said life will get better one day and you have to believe that as it most definitely will on that pendulum of life. So is humanity worth saving / keeping, as I write this post and its not even 11 am yet, I am seeing B-day wishes coming in from all over the US on facebook , multiple birthday texts on my phone from all over.

    Remember those 90% I wrote about, these are those people, these are all of us here on Avalon, And when you look into a toddlers eyes that hasn't even experienced the world yet, that question has no concept to that toddler as their life is just beginning and yes, us, we , all of us 90% owe them the best path we can ,like those that did before us........................................ I vote yes!

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    I would agree that humanity has done and still does horrific things to others and to this beautiful world we have been given. That being said mankind is capable of such incredible good and compassion. I believe with all my heart that the root of all mankind ills lie in the human heart that has been corrupted beyond all rational reasoning. If we truly loved one another we would not do the evil things we do to one another. I believe in an all powerful yet merciful God and creator of we have. I believe one day things will be different, that mankind's corrupted heart and soul will be made one with the Creator of all that is good and right and this evils of this existence will cease to be and all will put back to the way it was supposed to be!!!!

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    If just one human can transcend, it has the power to save humanity. Just one person performing that heroic feat. It does happen. Even if it happens for a second, it is enough to pass the torch.

    Are we worth saving? Yes, oh yes.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""When a society is afraid of it's poets, it is afraid of itself." Lenore Kandel

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by YoYoYo (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Well, maybe God has quality control problems.
    Quality control? more like a divine solution to freedom. We have freedom and freedom to create free things. Control doesn't really fit there as I see it
    Mine was a joke to make a point.

    The serious version of what I meant is that if God is indeed presiding over Planet Earth and the Human Race, He (or She!) might as well not be there.

    It's up to us. Not anyone or anything else.

    Quote Posted by Rhah (here)
    What's with the constant negativity all of a sudden, Bill? This is not the Bill I have come to know and respect.
    There's no negativity! Just reality. The two are worlds different.

    Thanks or your long and heartfelt post. Truly. But I'm wondering what you may be considering here, and you may be getting confused, or misunderstanding me somehow.

    For instance, my interest in the analysis of wnlight's dowsing results about major earth changes next year was academic. It's a fascinating thought experiment to discuss, all of us playing think-tank futurists for a moment.

    But I don't for a moment believe these things will happen. I've already explained that, but that could easily have been missed.

    My view on reality may be best explained with a mountaineering analogy. I've often used it before, so my apologies for anyone who might have heard this a few times.

    I'm a mountain guide (a formally qualified mountain leader), and have many times taken inexperienced people into the mountains for a fantastic, high-octane adventure. When doing that, my JOB is always to be aware of real potential dangers, and to take responsibility for a successful outcome in every way.

    Snow stability (slopes may avalanche in certain conditions), danger of rockfall, possibility of changing weather, knowing one's escape routes, having the right emergency equipment for a worst case scenario, being able to read a map and knowing exactly what the risks are of proceeding on certain routes if it's getting late in the day... etc etc etc. And being willing to make a call to turn back if I judge that safest.

    Active, mindful awareness of all that is what makes for a wonderful and memorable experience.

    Utopianism is the real danger. That's like driving down the highway with one's eyes closed, trusting in something-or-other to get you home (but not oneself). That might seem to work okay, till there's a sharp bend in the road, a traffic jam, or a fallen tree.

    Richard Dolan, who's far more than 'just' a UFO researcher, is increasingly talking these days about the dangers of utopianism. He sees it as a real threat in the alternative community, because it stops us looking at reality square in the face.

    And looking at reality is what I do. I'm a good guide, and everyone who knows me personally will affirm that I'm cheerful, positive, encouraging, proactive, empowering and solution-oriented. (There's a current thread about our positive qualities. Those are six I know I have, twice the number requested there. )

    But I absolutely am a realist. We all have to be. It's crucial and essential. I do think we may be slowly emerging from the woods... just maybe. But we're not there yet, at all.

    My post above was a response to Rachel's (whose clarification I understood), because there's no way at all that "Earth and ALL her inhabitants are one, stunningly beautiful, and faultless in Godís eyes."

    That might have been the case 500,000 years ago, or even 50,000 years ago. But absolutely not right now.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 17th June 2018 at 00:29.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Daozen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    If the human race was a intelligent organism, which arguably it is, it's
    1. Sick.
    2. Violent.
    3. Psychopathic.
    Chin up young man! It's not that bad. We're just a bi-polar princess with a headcold.

    Are we worth saving?

    Here's your answer:

    https://www.startsomegood.com/

    And:

    (Check the first comment)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Assistance/...d_need_to_get/
    http://tinyurl.com/oke7jvm //// "the love that you withhold, is the the pain that you carry... (lifetime after lifetime)..." - Alex Collier.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by Daozen (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    If the human race was a intelligent organism, which arguably it is, it's
    1. Sick.
    2. Violent.
    3. Psychopathic.
    Chin up young man! It's not that bad. We're just a bi-polar princess with a headcold.
    Lovely! Made me laugh.

    But here's the REALLY REALLY REALLY interesting question.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    there's no way at all that "Earth and ALL her inhabitants are one, stunningly beautiful, and faultless in Godís eyes."

    That might have been the case 500,000 years ago, or even 50,000 years ago. But absolutely not right now.
    Something happened to the human race between (say) 50,000 years ago and now.

    WHAT WAS IT ??

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 17th June 2018 at 02:03.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Last year, I had a dream in which I was told, ďThe population is growing faster than its ability to control itself.Ē

    I donít recall any other detailsójust that statement and my thinking, ďI must remember this.Ē

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    The digital age of the computer, satellites, information follows fast and instant that it consumes our time more than ever. When I was a kid there were only 5 tv stations available, now there are hundreds. It's exposing children to some wonderful stuff and then exposing them to adult issues and violence eliminating their innocence at a very early age. So my answer Bill is the digital age.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    This boot camp for consciousness has a limit on how many people can be trained at one time.
    I do not know the quantity.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Quote Posted by pyrangello (here)
    So my answer Bill is the digital age.
    I'd say it was way earlier than that. Consider these historical examples, which we all know about. This is a tiny tiny tip of a vast iceberg of behavior and attitude that many could consider symptomatic of deeply ingrained evil barbarism even in apparently 'civilized' people.
    • Europeans slaughtering indigenous races a few hundred years ago (look at the Spaniards in Central and South America).
    • Slavery (which was also an African tradition before it was adopted by the Europeans and Americans).
    • Burning witches (and others) at the stake ó and doing even worse things to them when they were still alive.
    • The slaughter of the Cathars at Montsťgur.
    • The massacre at Wounded Knee.
    • Human sacrifice of every kind, for thousands of years, in many cultures. Satanic child sacrifice continues today.
    • World War I. And the Dresden firebombing, in World War II.
    • The World War II concentration camps, assuming that's accurate history. And Pol Pot's killing fields in Cambodia. And Mao's 'Cultural Revolution' in China. And more.
    • (This list could probably be extended to many hundreds of uncontested historical items and events.)
    I'm not at all convinced we were doing all this stuff 50,000 years ago, though that's an arbitrary date. But it could simply have been because humans hadn't yet developed the weaponry to enforce their will on others.

    What I suspect is that (as Jay Weidner and others have hypothesized) there was some kind of Archontic infection from an inhuman source thousands of years ago, that's now so deeply ingrained (and maybe even dormant in almost everyone) that we can sometimes barely see it for what it is.

    And none of this documents the systematic destruction and poisoning of our own environment. We're in the middle of the Sixth great Mass Extinction in billions of years, the difference being that this one is caused by us.

    As I mentioned above, these are simply realities which we have to acknowledge if we're to do anything about it. There's nothing beautiful (or even bipolar! ) about any of this, and humans have embodied it throughout all recorded history.

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    Default Re: Is humanity worth keeping/saving? - Honest conversation

    Thank you very much guys for contributing. Tons of various interesting perspectives, as always!

    Personally, I'd try to contribute as much as I can to our current human society, but at the same time wouldn't expect it to change much. I believe that as humans we can be inspired to do & achieve great things, but we're also at the same time really stubborn/inflexible and tend to resist the truth.

    What I meant by that is, I've spent literally years to share the story about the true nature of the world we live in with many acquaintances of mine. Most of them just listened because they were being polite. Some ridiculed me for being so "up & out there". They just don't care. As long as they can fulfill their personal worldly needs and are safe, everything else is fine! And you know what the most ironic thing is!? I myself, knowing all these stories about spirituality, the NWO, the aliens, etc...and yet many many times I find my own mind manipulated/clouded/blinded by worldly attachments, not so different from those acquaintances whom I once tried to awake.

    It's either the Controllers' system was designed so smartly to keep us trapped, or the human nature is just very fragile and easily triggered/corrupted. No wonder why they always meditate with their eyes closed and in quiet places, just so nothing external can mess with their mind! The Buddha back then, at first, even prohibited women to join him, I think he had a point!

    So I agree with Bill: we surely shouldn't turn our back to humanity, but at the same time shouldn't expect it to get better any time soon. For me personally tho, I wouldn't try/aim to continue it.

    This makes me think of a social experiment by performance artist Marina Abramovic done way back then which shows how cruel "normal/sane" humans can become when allowed.

    https://curiousmindmagazine.com/perf...-want-6-hours/

    Also, here's a social experiment about animal abuse intervention. 90% people just walked by, at least that's what the clip said.



    He who knows and says that he knows, cares but pretends not to care - he is a Confucianist.
    He who knows but doesn't say that he knows, never cares about anything - he is a Buddhist.
    He who doesn't know but says that he knows, doesn't care but pretends to care - he is all of us.

    (translated lyrics from a Chinese song)

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