Did Maria Orsic really exist?

[Bill Ryan]

The thread title says it.

Did Maria Orsic really exist? It's a genuine question. I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response. I'd like to ask Peter Levenda, too.

I do know there are a zillion web pages and articles about her. (And also many photos that have to be way too high quality and modern-looking to really be from the 1920s and 30s.)

Two interesting books for reference. Both are important.

The second (and more recent) was where Maria Orsic's story first was published. She was said to be the founder of the Vril Society, an acclaimed psychic who, with her colleagues, channeled high tech disc craft designs from Aldebaran, so becoming the darling of the Thule Society and the Nazi party.

But she'd never been heard of before that 1960 book. The authors have hinted heavily that some of their book was provocative fiction, but never clarified whether Orsic herself was fictional. And much of that part of their book was based on the first, which was published in 1871. (There's an excellent summary here.)

• Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton - The Coming Race (1871)
  http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Sir%...ing%20Race.pdf

• Louis Pauwels, Jacques Bergier - The Morning of the Magicians - Secret Societies, Conspiracies, and Vanished Civilizations (1960)
  http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Loui...ilizations.pdf

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response.

Well, that was quick! Here's his reply, literally within minutes:

~~~

I've found NO evidence for it. The story is repeated in some postwar neo-nazi sources, but nothing by way of evidence. I've referred to the story (forget which book), but because of its intrinsic interest. I've not founded any hypotheses or conclusions from it.

[mojo]

Hi, this video might help some, Bill, maybe Maria was a cover name and I wonder if Joseph Farrell would agree that the society itself existed? After watching the video didnt know the Vril were into so many bizarre things. It reminded me a little of the Bohemian Grove goings on...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fJCpJ4CSyGE

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by mojo (here)
Hi, this video might help some, Bill, maybe Maria was a cover name and I wonder if Joseph Farrell would agree that the society itself existed? After watching the video didnt know the Vril were into so many bizarre things. It reminded me a little of the Bohemian Grove goings on...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fJCpJ4CSyGE

Thanks, yes. Assuming it existed, it was really very weird indeed.

Note, though, that the narrator carefully says at the very start: (0:20) "If the bizarre legends of the Vril Society are true..."

The entire narration is carefully speculative: "is said to have", "may have", "is thought to be" ... etc. These caveats are repeated throughout the film.

Despite its caution (Maria Orsic is never mentioned by name), the documentary can't resist some drama: it suggests at the end (39:15) that the 'V' in the V-1, V-2 weapons may have stood for Vril. That's historically just not the case... 'V' stands for Vergeltungswaffe, which means 'Retribution Weapon'.

It also seems significant that only three experts are included as historical authoritaties. One wonders if that's all the producers could find... most features like this include half a dozen or more, even if only for the variety and interest.

The Thule Society, in contrast, is absolutely an agreed historical reality, the participants are known, and it's all very well documented.

The problem, of course, is that any truly secret society (and there are some!) really does leave an almost zero footprint.

[KiwiElf]

Not proof that Maria Orsic existed but perhaps one of the first videos which mentions her in the overall "bigger picture".

According to legend, this German-produced documentary was first released in 1992, then re-released in 1998 in English. (IMO, still one of the best around). Unfortunately, the quality looks like it may have been converted from video.

UFO - Secrets of the 3rd Reich

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=YxEtseyHlNM

Can we exclude an extraterrestrian contact at that time? One of the last large secrets of our century is the occult past of the Third Reich and its secret societies Templer, Thule, Vril and the 'Lords of the Black Sus - SS'. An integrated technology that derived from occult secret knowledge - i.e. anti-gravitation driven round planes (UFO) with the code names Vril and Haunebu (V7) - has never been made available to the public under the cover of military secrecy by the allied victorious powers. The occult secret societies of the Third Reich ranked among the best old orientalists of the world back then and knew about the existence of extraterrestrian technology that was brought down to Earth in old Sumeria by the gods who 'came down from heaven'.

UFO TV appear to have drawn on much of this material with their own updated & expanded version (again, Maria is discussed early into the video in the larger "historical" context):

UFO SECRETS OF THE THIRD REICH - THE ALDEBARAN MYSTERY HD

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MtAD90C6mEM

Some of us have just been discussing alleged German UFO's, the Haunebu's in particular, over on uzn's thread here:

Build your own nazi saucer from Revell
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...&p=1230952#top

Certain Politically Correct "vested interests" recently succeeded in having well-known model maker, Revell, remove their kitset of a Haunebu II. (ie, it was banned due to "Public Outrage"!)

https://www.rt.com/news/430259-nazi-...saucer-amazon/

[Mike Gorman]

Which 'public' expressed the outrage? I see it was the child protection groups, they can be over sensitive about these matters, or indeed any reference to 'Nazi' at all!

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
Which 'public' expressed the outrage? I see it was the child protection groups, they can be over sensitive about these matters, or indeed any reference to 'Nazi' at all!

LOL exactly - I count 3+ people?

[Builder]

Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
Which 'public' expressed the outrage? I see it was the child protection groups, they can be over sensitive about these matters, or indeed any reference to 'Nazi' at all!

Of course this is all BS. An advanced difficulty model kit has nothing to do with getting children to play with Nazi toys.

But Naziism is THE strongest taboo in German society for very good reasons and with it Germany has transformed from a war state to one of the most peaceful nations on earth.

Like any taboo it can thus will be be used to exert power by those who define and control the taboo. Which were of course the winning allies of the war and in extension of that today's German establishment.

Note that in Germany and Austria there is no freedom of speech regarding to this topic and it's a criminal offence to paint a Swastika on a scale model from that era (no matter if the original existed or not).

Understanding that the simple act of building and painting a model can get you into jail may also help to understand why producing such a model is a sensitive issue. But it also puts a forbidden mystical aura around the whole topic, which brings us back from model building to Maria Orsic.

When the truth is clouded by a controlled narrative, taboos and censorship, then imagination instead of historical facts may fill in the blanks.

[KiwiElf]

Back to Maria Orsic; perhaps even more mysterious, (or "convenient" as to her real existence?), as the story goes, she vanished along with other Vril members at the end of the war, never to be seen again.

Many theories associated with that, too; take your pick;
She left Germany on a:

U-Boat (100+ U-boats unaccounted for/vanished at the end of the war), OR
a Haunebu Saucer,

... bound for Sth America OR
Neuschwabenland, the "Nazi Base/Colony" in Antarctica,

... to the suggestion that she (somehow) went to Aldebaran - more commonly known as Alpha Tauri - the alleged source of her channelling).

[Zampano]

Maria Orsic was more more like a puppet.
A roll modell...so to say.
Only a suggestion-nothing more.
There should me many more.

But thats a gut feeling-that is my intuition, but not much more.

[Valerie Villars]

I read both of those books and read "The Morning of the Magicians" so much it is actually falling apart.

Did Maria really exist? Her persona could just be a representation of some real phenomena. Her photograph shows a woman so beautiful she doesn't look real. Kind of like the Nordic I had interactions with. He was so good looking, he didn't seem real.

I can attest to the phenomena of the vril being real, but the person? I don't know. There is some kind of veil over this stuff, which is inexplicable. You experience the realness of it, but there is no logical explanation.

Interesting thread.

[Spiral]

What a fascinating topic & rabbit hole...

The number of times that real occult practices feature in works of fantasy are many, and very curiously it's not unknown for works of fantasy to become taken to be true occult material, so like the speculative existence of the enigmatic & beautiful Maria Orsic it seems that there is a warping of reality & time at play, where things on the fringes of what we believe can fluctuate from being fact to fiction & back again.

Why does that happen & if MO is a work of fiction what was the purpose of adding her into the story ? To manifest vril as a reality by creating a sufficiently strong narrative that a significant number of people would believe in it, enough people that is to create a "mandela effect" & alter reality ?

[Valerie Villars]

What I still find interesting is once again, I didn't know about any of this stuff until I went through it and then started looking for books about the experience, after the fact.

Does the present bleed into the past?

Are the clues planted after the fact?

[Foxie Loxie]

Good question, Spiral! So nice to see you posting!!

[dynamo]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
...
She left Germany on a U-Boat/Haunebu, bound for Sth America OR the South Pole, to the suggestion that she (somehow) went to Aldebaran - more commonly known as Alpha Centauri - ...

just to clarify, Aldebaran and Alpha Centauri are two different things:
Aldebaran being a "star" 65 light-years from Earth
https://www.britannica.com/place/Aldebaran

and Alpha Centauri being a "star system" 4.3 light years from Earth.
https://www.livescience.com/54387-5-...-starshot.html

The amateur astronomer in me made me interrupt LOL!
Ok, please carry on...

[Sunny-side-up]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Back to Maria Orsic; perhaps even more mysterious, (or "convenient" as to her real existence?), as the story goes, she mysteriously vanished at the end of the war, never to be seen again.

(Many theories associated with that, too; take your pick;
She left Germany on a U-Boat/Haunebu, bound for Sth America OR the South Pole, to the suggestion that she (somehow) went to Aldebaran - more commonly known as Alpha Centauri - the alleged source of her channelling).

OR she eloped with Shakespeare and lived happily ever after.

Just shows how something/one who is relatively recent can be such a mystery, a mystery to the level of maybe not being real?
our history is very easily influenced and or even made up.

I still think there is a real foundation to Maria Orsic and her/it's story.
I hope it's not just made up.

Aldebaran, designated Alpha Tauri, is an orange giant star located about 65 light-years from the Sun in the zodiac constellation of Taurus. Wikipedia

[turiya]

So far I see no one has posted an image of Maria Orsic... So, allow me...



Referring to the title of this thread, Did Maria Orsic exist?
For my own curiosity, I will dowse for the answer to this question.... the following are the results of that inquiry.

Keep in mind...
Dowsing is not considered an exact science. The obtained results can be considered similar to the results obtained through the 'alternative medicine' practice found through what is called 'Applied Kinesiology', that which many chiropractors, and other health practitioners use. The following results satisfy my own inquiry through the method of dowsing with a pendulum. It is totally subjective. But, the method, in many instances, has served me quite well.


Question 1) Does the above image represent the image of a real human being that had previously existed? - Yes.

Question 2) Is 'Maria Orsic' the true name of the real human being that is represented in the above photo? - No.

Question 3) Did an individual by the name of Maria Orsic ever exist?- Yes.

Question 4) Did such individual have anything to do with what is known as the Vril Society? No.

Question 5) Was there at any time an individual by the name of Maria Orsic that had anything to do with the Vril Society? - No.

Question 6) The notion of there being a real individual by the name of 'Maria Orsic' associated with the 'Vril Society', can this be considered factual? - No.

Question 7) Then, it is a fiction? Yes.

That is good enough for me.
I leave the rest of you to decide for yourselves.

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, turiya! It would be interesting to see if wnlight could repeat your questions & see if he gets the same answers!

[DNA]

I would like to ask a slightly different but still related question. Were the UFO's described by Admiral Byrd in Antarctica Nazi UFO's or not?

It seems that Admiral Byrd did exist and that he did in fact go to Antarctica with a fleet of ships prepared for war after WWII.

He claimed to have been routed by a vastly superior squadron of UFO's.

Were these Nazis or someone else occupying Antarctica?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by DNA (here)
I would like to ask a slightly different but still related question. Were the UFO's described by Admiral Byrd in Antarctica Nazi UFO's or not?

It seems that Admiral Byrd did exist and that he did in fact go to Antarctica with a fleet of ships prepared for war after WWII.

He claimed to have been routed by a vastly superior squadron of UFO's.

That all stems from just 1 (one) Chilean newspaper report. There's no other evidence. But it's pretty odd that he returned (or retreated!) several months before he was due to.

Here's more, in fine detail:

• http://tst.greyfalcon.us/ufo.htm

(This may need its own thread...!)