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Thread: Help with debilitating insomnia

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    Default Re: Help with debilitating insomnia

    As a person with sleep issues right out of the gate (even as a baby), as someone who almost never gets naturally drowsy like most people, my experiences/experiments are as follows: Have tried all the classic things suggested, Melatonin triggered depression in me (also did so in a couple friends), Ambien didn't work at all, rx sedative type drugs work but concern about addiction makes me avoid them.

    A few things that have helped: wearing blue light blocking glasses at night if I'm looking at a screen, reiki treatments by a gifted practitioner, especially focusing on the head area, and most effective for me, wearing an eyemask and noise cancelling in ear headphones, and most effective for me, listening to something like a podcast or youtube (screen turned away), that is only mildly interesting..the talking seems to distract my own chattering mind completely and allows me to drift off. I have never tried hypnosis for this issue but it might be effective too.

    I seem to have a delayed circadian rhythm from what I've read, also seem to need a bit less sleep than most. I think it's almost impossible for others who haven't had this challenge to relate to it or believe it isn't easily resolvable.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help with debilitating insomnia

    Quote Posted by graciousb (here)
    Melatonin triggered depression in me (also did so in a couple friends)
    Do please see my post #60 here — which was very interesting for me.

    In summary here, that suggested that a tiny (0.2-0.3 mg) dose of melatonin was MORE effective as a sleep aid than a heavy (3 mg) dose.

    With no side-effects, either. There's really not enough melatonin to cause any.

    Here's a photo of what I take very occasionally — for me, and to my astonishment, this really works far better. I'd recommend anyone who's used melatonin but then turned away from it, to maybe give it a quick try.

    The little slice I take off the 3 mg tablet is really pretty tiny. It works perfectly for me, when I feel I need it, with no side-effects at al.


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    Default Re: Help with debilitating insomnia

    One thing that lots of people forget to examine is the prescription meds that they are on. I have two loved ones who realized that is was their BP medication (metoprolol) that they were on that greatly contributed to their problem. Another one found it was the low-dose steroid prescription.

    Quote Medications that can affect sleep include:

    Anti-arrhythmics (for heart rhythm problems)
    Beta blockers (for high blood pressure)
    Clonidine (for high blood pressure)
    Corticosteroids (for inflammation or asthma)
    Diuretics (for high blood pressure)
    Cough, cold, and flu medications that contain alcohol
    Headache and pain medications that contain caffeine
    Nicotine replacement products
    Sedating antihistamines (for colds and allergies)
    SSRIs (for depression or anxiety)
    Sympathomimetic stimulants (for attention deficit disorder)
    Theophylline (for asthma)
    Thyroid hormone (for hypothyroidism)
    How Medications May Affect Sleep
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: Help with debilitating insomnia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by graciousb (here)
    Melatonin triggered depression in me (also did so in a couple friends)
    Do please see my post #60 here — which was very interesting for me.

    In summary here, that suggested that a tiny (0.2-0.3 mg) dose of melatonin was MORE effective as a sleep aid than a heavy (3 mg) dose.

    With no side-effects, either. There's really not enough melatonin to cause any.

    Here's a photo of what I take very occasionally — for me, and to my astonishment, this really works far better. I'd recommend anyone who's used melatonin but then turned away from it, to maybe give it a quick try.

    The little slice I take off the 3 mg tablet is really pretty tiny. It works perfectly for me, when I feel I need it, with no side-effects at al.

    Maybe a bit off topic, but I read this research study on melatonin that I found interesting:

    Quote Abstract
    Within recent years, many investigators have implicated the pineal gland and melatonin in the processes of both aging and age-related diseases. These theories stem from the importance of melatonin in a number of biological functions and the fact that melatonin production in the organism is gradually lost throughout life, such that in very old individuals of any species the circadian melatonin rhythm is bearly discernible. In most species, from algae to humans, where it has been investigated, melatonin has been shown to exhibit a strong circadian rhythm in production and secretion, with high levels of the indole always being associated with the dark period of the light:dark cycle. One theory states that when the melatonin rhythm deteriorates during aging, other circadian rhythms are likewise weakened and rhythms become dysynchronized. This dysynchronization is believed to contribute significantly to aging and to render animals more susceptible to age-related diseases. Another theory assumes that the waning melatonin cycle provides an important switch for genetically programmed aging at the cellular level; furthermore, because all cells in the organism are exposed to the same gradually dampening melatonin signal throughout life, all cells age more or less at the same rate. In this theory, it is presumed to be the duration of the nocturnally elevated melatonin (which, like the amplitude, is reduced during aging), which, when coupled to a time-gating signal, is consequential in determining the rate of aging.
    <snip>
    In the few studies where animals have been supplemented with exogenous melatonin throughout life, life span has been increased up to 25%. Besides its protection of the brain, melatonin has been shown to prevent damage by oxidants to DNA in other organs. Again, protecting DNA is particularly important because there are only two copies in each diploid cell, and structurally impaired DNA would not properly transcribe, leading to metabolic inefficiency and possibility to death of the cell. Thus, for a number of reasons, maintaining a robust melatonin rhythm by exogenously administering the indole may prove to have a variety of beneficial effects, which collectively could serve to prolong life, postpone aging, and reduce the chances of age-related diseases.

    The pineal gland and melatonin in relation to aging: A summary of the theories and of the data
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  9. Link to Post #65
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    Default Re: Help with debilitating insomnia

    Quote Posted by Ayt (here)
    Maybe a bit off topic, but I read this research study on melatonin that I found interesting:

    Quote Abstract
    Within recent years, many investigators have implicated the pineal gland and melatonin in the processes of both aging and age-related diseases. These theories stem from the importance of melatonin in a number of biological functions and the fact that melatonin production in the organism is gradually lost throughout life, such that in very old individuals of any species the circadian melatonin rhythm is bearly discernible. In most species, from algae to humans, where it has been investigated, melatonin has been shown to exhibit a strong circadian rhythm in production and secretion, with high levels of the indole always being associated with the dark period of the light:dark cycle. One theory states that when the melatonin rhythm deteriorates during aging, other circadian rhythms are likewise weakened and rhythms become dysynchronized. This dysynchronization is believed to contribute significantly to aging and to render animals more susceptible to age-related diseases. Another theory assumes that the waning melatonin cycle provides an important switch for genetically programmed aging at the cellular level; furthermore, because all cells in the organism are exposed to the same gradually dampening melatonin signal throughout life, all cells age more or less at the same rate. In this theory, it is presumed to be the duration of the nocturnally elevated melatonin (which, like the amplitude, is reduced during aging), which, when coupled to a time-gating signal, is consequential in determining the rate of aging.
    <snip>
    In the few studies where animals have been supplemented with exogenous melatonin throughout life, life span has been increased up to 25%. Besides its protection of the brain, melatonin has been shown to prevent damage by oxidants to DNA in other organs. Again, protecting DNA is particularly important because there are only two copies in each diploid cell, and structurally impaired DNA would not properly transcribe, leading to metabolic inefficiency and possibility to death of the cell. Thus, for a number of reasons, maintaining a robust melatonin rhythm by exogenously administering the indole may prove to have a variety of beneficial effects, which collectively could serve to prolong life, postpone aging, and reduce the chances of age-related diseases.

    The pineal gland and melatonin in relation to aging: A summary of the theories and of the data
    Thanks for sharing this interesting study Ayt.

    Here are the concluding remarks from the study:
    Quote CONCLUDING REMARKS
    Besides aging, there are many diseases that have as their basis, at least in part, free radical damage. Many of these involve the central nervous system because of the high vulnerability of this organ to oxidative attack. Melatonin seems to be somewhat preferentially taken up by cells in the nervous system (Menendez-Pelaez et al., 1993) and the stimulatory effect of the indole on the antioxidant enzyme glutathione peroxidase is particularly well manifested in the brain. These facts imply that melatonin may afford special protection to the brain from the very damaging actions of oxygen-based radicals. It is also obvious, however, that melatonin's protective actions are not restricted to the central nervous system because in the experiments that used the highly toxic carcinogen, safrole, hepatic DNA was potently protected by melatonin (Tan et al., 1993b, 1994). Thus, melatonin likely provides protection against oxidative attack in every cell in the organism. This is certainly consistent with the notion that the indole readily diffuses into every cell and into every subcellular compartment.

    Aging is a complicated process and cannot be attributable to a single factor, e.g., oxidative damage. Preliminary studies have shown that melatonin does delay aging and postpone senescence (Maestroni et al., 1989; Pierpaoli and Regelson, 1994). Whether, in fact, melatonin will be a true antiaging hormone in all species awaits investigation, although early results are promising in this regard. Heretofore, it was generally conceded that the circadian melatonin rhythm as well as its circannual variations (due to seasonal fluctuations in light:dark ratio) provide time-of-day and time-of-year information, respectively, to the organism (Reiter, 1993). Considering the drop in melatonin with age, it is possible that this important metabolic hormone also provides time-of-life information; thus, the amplitude of the nocturnal melatonin peak and/or the duration of nocturnally elevated melatonin may be indicative of the biological age of the organism.
    ~~~

    Related:

    I read an interesting study on different substances that can help with radiation. Melatonin was one of the substances mentioned:

    Quote ...Saada et al. evaluated the effects of omega-3 fatty acids in rats’ brain and found that this substance may reduce the oxidative stress produced by the whole-body gamma irradiation, study that suggests the protective effects of omega-3 fatty acids on the ROS that are produced in the brain, before and during the exposure to radiation (134).

    The oxidative stress in rat lens is enhanced by the exposure to gamma-radiation and the antioxidant capacity can be increased by the administration of melatonin, as Taysi et al. established in their study (135). Melatonin can be a good protector against cataract that develops in pilots.
    ...
    The antioxidant supplementation can aid in increasing the protection against the cosmic radiation in persons that travel by plane at high altitudes, but the type and the dose of the antioxidants must be adjusted according to age, sex, time spent at high altitudes and conditions related to the variations of the magnetosphere intensity and solar activity. A healthy diet helps in the immunity processes and the oral administration of antioxidants before and during the travel by plane reduces the cosmic radiation-induced oxidative stress. The exposed tegument can be protected with topical treatment containing Green tea extract and the melatonin administration can prevent the cataract development. The further studies on antioxidants will complete the information required for a better protection against cosmic radiation-induced oxidative stress.

    ...

    [Sources]
    ...
    134. Saada HN, Said UZ, Mahdy EME, Elmezayen HE, Shedid SM. Fish oil omega-3 fatty acids reduce the severity of radiation-induced oxidative stress in the rat brain. Int J Rad Biol 2014; 90: 1179-1183.

    135. Taysi S, Memisogullari R, Koc M, et al. Melatonin reduces oxidative stress in the rat lens due to radiation-induced oxidative injury. Int J Radiat Biol 2008; 84: 803-808.
    ...
    From: http://www.jpp.krakow.pl/journal/arc....2018.4.03.pdf
    Last edited by Cara; 29th October 2019 at 05:19.
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    Default Re: Help with debilitating insomnia

    I was listening to NPR a few months ago about insomnia. They were interviewing two doctors who were supposed to be the leading experts on this topic. At the end of the programme, they asked them if they would only give one or two tips to the listeners for a better night sleep what would it be.

    1. Go to bed around the same time every night. They said this was probably the most important thing people could do.
    2. Do not engage with any electronic stuff for about an hour before getting into bed. No phone, TV no internet etc.

    This topic is near and dear to me as I have had insomnia most of my life. I have taken this to heart especially getting to bed around the same time every night and it has made a tremendous difference. It has not solved the problem but it has reduced the sleepless nights by 80%+.

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