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Thread: Polarity United: Psychopathy and empathy moving forward, is it possible?

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    United States Avalon Member Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Polarity United: Psychopathy and empathy moving forward, is it possible?

    "If I am a narcissist (which might be true), at least I am a useful one," ~ Elon Musk

    This statement is the crux of a polar conflict that has bedeviled humanity since the Pyramids of Giza and probably before. While we, as a human family, are capable of defining infinite measures and categories that compartmentalize and separate us, there is only one true, measurable difference that holds across the entirety of the human population, beyond ethnic/racial differentiation, geography and culture. And that is the qualitative and polar expression and scale separating empath from psychopath.

    While the terms psychopath and sociopath are often used interchangeably, in order to make the designations practical and reflective of lived reality, in some literature on the subject the difference between the two is simply stated as psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. Those who fulfill the clinical qualifications for psychopathy manifest the full range of capabilities, including the inability to feel fear, high intelligence, inordinate self-interest, lack of empathy and compassion. Those who are born empath, but who by situation of lived circumstance choose or are programmed experientially to project perception outward - and who choose consciously to create emotional distance between themselves and the world - must consciously "harden their hearts" over time. Existing in such a manner, they experience remorse, guilt and traumatic stress disorders of different types.

    General narcissism - and malignant narcissism in particular - is seen as an unbalanced psychological disorder characterized by an inordinate preoccupation with self-image and personal concerns. These individuals, by dint of their sole focus upon themselves and their perspectives and interests, are characterized by a high degree of focus upon career concerns. They are often extroverts and emotionally volatile, with little concern for other's thoughts or feelings. Psychopaths and sociopaths are keen observers of human behavior and generally rise to the top of any hierarchical structure they view as their domain. If it is, indeed, a psychological disorder and if they are, indeed, unbalanced, then this is an imbalance that has existed for as long as people have existed in the world, or at least as long as we have written and drawn records to describe.

    The earliest historical civilizations the West acknowledges traditionally are Mesopotamia and Egypt. These societies were hierarchical and typified by class division and separation of labor. There were field hands at the bottom and the aristocratic elite and priesthood at the top. The middle echelons included the merchant and artisan classes. While those at the bottom of the economic and social hierarchy spent their time toiling in the fields in order to provide sustenance for themselves and their families, the fruits of their labor were consumed by those at the top, who spent their time indulging in amusements and creating art, philosophy and pontificating on religion and the stars. Through the manifestation of this organizational impulse, all that we call Civilization is continuously reborn in a crucible of dynamic co-creation. And it has, apparently, been this way for a long, long time. According to recent research, this hierarchy is a universal side-effect of the process of agricultural production and urbanization, as is warfare.

    Probably even before then, during the hundreds of thousands of years of hunter/gatherer clan social organization, those who were able, by nature, to experience reality at a perceptual and emotional distance - which defines psychopathy - rose to the top of the clan hierarchy because they could make collective decisions without falling prey to sentimentality as well as kill without compunction. Individuals with these capacities were necessary for the furtherance of the tribe and clan, as their abilities were integral to the protection of the women and children from animals as well as the members of other clans and tribes. Psychology and statistics currently state that psychopaths are merely 9% of the population but, despite these relatively small numbers, their presence within each tribe and clan was able to provide a triggering violent impetus for the empathic majority to do what was necessary for the genetic continuance of their progeny.

    Today, our movies and television series glorify psychopathy. The "few", over the "many". The "good" guys and the "bad" guys all seem to be able to engage the world at a perceptual distance as well as kill without compunction. They walk around seemingly inured to the emotional vagaries that afflict the empathic, somehow "above" it all. The difference between them is often a "code", which defines which "side" of the polarity they represent. They seem to recognize each other by their abilities and often attempt to coexist rather than destroy each other directly as a bond of recognition, if not affection, seems to exist between them. Some wear white hats, while others wear black hats and they all tell each other "I'll see you in hell" in full realization that they share an ability to traverse life and death as arbiters of both, consciously and willfully.

    It is a known fact that psychopaths and sociopaths occupy the highest echelons of power in corporations and governments. Their existence is a fact of our reality and there is a burgeoning literature dealing with this schism in the human population and the effects that each type of human have on the other. As is generally the case with such things, there is a lot of hype and the misattribution as well as conflation of primary characteristics that accompany such literature, to the detriment of truth and full understanding.

    Since these are very real differences between people, understanding is necessary. Acceptance, is also necessary. This is the nature of the world and humanity and there is no right or wrong in existence, fundamentally and beyond human agency. We attribute moral characteristics to normative reality depending upon how we are mentally and physically affected by events and people. We universalize experience to create stereotypes and fulfill archetypes, doing what humans do and often, by so doing, dehumanize each other. Psychopaths see empaths as sheep, empaths see psychopaths as wolves. There seems to be no middle ground possible.

    But, there is. And there are people who are consciously walking the dividing line between the two extremes who are choosing their life paths and directions awake and aware to that choice and making it because they choose to, which is the essence of free will and destiny. No biological wiring or environmental experience fully defines the experience of an incarnate soul; we all have choices to make, choices that define who we are to the rest of the world, beyond what some may perceive as limiting capabilities determined by physiological programming beyond our ability to consciously determine.

    At some point, sooner rather than later, the ancient pattern of interaction between the differing members of the human family must come into alignment. An agreement must be entered into that benefits the entire family. Those who believe the rest of us are cattle must be convinced that, without us, they have lost an essential element of what it means to be human. Without the existence of those of us capable of feeling and intuiting that which lies beyond the 5 normative senses, entire ranges of reality remain unknown as well as undreamt. For those who feel and sense deeply, defining those who do not as inhuman and defective - missing some fundamental aspect of basic humanity - keeps them "hiding in plain sight", pretending to be something they are not while engaging in Machiavellian machinations designed to take advantage of the herd for their own, singular and narcissistic interests.

    Some ancient cultures handled this dichotomy by recognizing the nature of psychopaths and elevating the most successful of them to the status of divine kingship. But, as a foil against their depredations if left unchecked, they practiced human sacrifice, killing their psychopathic rulers ritually and regularly to keep them from multiplying and desolating society. This is not an option that is available or even desired by our current, enlightened societies. As we move into a new reality and our world is rent by this ancient battle, this new agreement must be arrived at. Both perspectives, both experiential realities, a very real polarity of beingness, seem to be absolutely necessary to human existence. Coming to terms with this reality and speaking about it openly while working to integrate understanding in order to take the human family to the next level of our existence is what is required if we are to claim the stars as our inheritance; if we are to return this big, blue marble to her original, pristine state and find balance and relative peace.

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    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Polarity United: Psychopathy and empathy moving forward, is it possible?

    I think this is similar to what I'd been saying not too long ago about order and chaos, and the inevitability of hierarchies..their utility on the one end and tyranny on the other....and the world's attempt to arrive at a balance, or baseline

    Leaders have to make decisions all the time that emotion and empathy would only hinder. So do surgeons, for example. There is utility in being cold and clinical. It's necessary. Being able to almost completely shut down ones emotional side might be considered psychopathic..but it's also an invaluable skill. Soldiers that keep reenlisting so they can return to violent battle again and again have a degree of psychopathy in them, I think. Of course we don't lock them up, we honor their wishes...because theyre protecting our ass. Empaths aren't lining up to do the dirty work.

    Of course there's a spectrum here, and the cold, clinical leader gone too far becomes the tyrant; the empath gone too far becomes the emotionally crippled, passive hermit. Neither are useful to the evolution of humanity...and both are equally responsible for things like Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, so forth - the sociopathic tyrant takes over, and the emotionally crippled empaths are too traumatized to resist (Note: I once encouraged folks here to watch violent videos and things of that nature, as a way of sort of inoculating themselves against this type of weakness. This is why).

    Hierarchies are inevitable, and though we are loathe to admit it, those with sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies do necessary things to make the world go 'round that the average empath can't or won't . These things tend to place them in positions a bit higher on the power pyramid. I think it's more of an organic process than people think, and alot less of a conspiratorial one.
    Last edited by Mike; 12th July 2018 at 16:48.
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    Default Re: Polarity United: Psychopathy and empathy moving forward, is it possible?

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    "If I am a narcissist (which might be true), at least I am a useful one," ~ Elon Musk

    This statement is the crux of a polar conflict that has bedeviled humanity since the Pyramids of Giza and probably before. While we, as a human family, are capable of defining infinite measures and categories that compartmentalize and separate us, there is only one true, measurable difference that holds across the entirety of the human population, beyond ethnic/racial differentiation, geography and culture. And that is the qualitative and polar expression and scale separating empath from psychopath.

    While the terms psychopath and sociopath are often used interchangeably, in order to make the designations practical and reflective of lived reality, in some literature on the subject the difference between the two is simply stated as psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. Those who fulfill the clinical qualifications for psychopathy manifest the full range of capabilities, including the inability to feel fear, high intelligence, inordinate self-interest, lack of empathy and compassion. Those who are born empath, but who by situation of lived circumstance choose or are programmed experientially to project perception outward - and who choose consciously to create emotional distance between themselves and the world - must consciously "harden their hearts" over time. Existing in such a manner, they experience remorse, guilt and traumatic stress disorders of different types.

    General narcissism - and malignant narcissism in particular - is seen as an unbalanced psychological disorder characterized by an inordinate preoccupation with self-image and personal concerns. These individuals, by dint of their sole focus upon themselves and their perspectives and interests, are characterized by a high degree of focus upon career concerns. They are often extroverts and emotionally volatile, with little concern for other's thoughts or feelings. Psychopaths and sociopaths are keen observers of human behavior and generally rise to the top of any hierarchical structure they view as their domain. If it is, indeed, a psychological disorder and if they are, indeed, unbalanced, then this is an imbalance that has existed for as long as people have existed in the world, or at least as long as we have written and drawn records to describe.

    The earliest historical civilizations the West acknowledges traditionally are Mesopotamia and Egypt. These societies were hierarchical and typified by class division and separation of labor. There were field hands at the bottom and the aristocratic elite and priesthood at the top. The middle echelons included the merchant and artisan classes. While those at the bottom of the economic and social hierarchy spent their time toiling in the fields in order to provide sustenance for themselves and their families, the fruits of their labor were consumed by those at the top, who spent their time indulging in amusements and creating art, philosophy and pontificating on religion and the stars. Through the manifestation of this organizational impulse, all that we call Civilization is continuously reborn in a crucible of dynamic co-creation. And it has, apparently, been this way for a long, long time. According to recent research, this hierarchy is a universal side-effect of the process of agricultural production and urbanization, as is warfare.

    Probably even before then, during the hundreds of thousands of years of hunter/gatherer clan social organization, those who were able, by nature, to experience reality at a perceptual and emotional distance - which defines psychopathy - rose to the top of the clan hierarchy because they could make collective decisions without falling prey to sentimentality as well as kill without compunction. Individuals with these capacities were necessary for the furtherance of the tribe and clan, as their abilities were integral to the protection of the women and children from animals as well as the members of other clans and tribes. Psychology and statistics currently state that psychopaths are merely 9% of the population but, despite these relatively small numbers, their presence within each tribe and clan was able to provide a triggering violent impetus for the empathic majority to do what was necessary for the genetic continuance of their progeny.

    Today, our movies and television series glorify psychopathy. The "few", over the "many". The "good" guys and the "bad" guys all seem to be able to engage the world at a perceptual distance as well as kill without compunction. They walk around seemingly inured to the emotional vagaries that afflict the empathic, somehow "above" it all. The difference between them is often a "code", which defines which "side" of the polarity they represent. They seem to recognize each other by their abilities and often attempt to coexist rather than destroy each other directly as a bond of recognition, if not affection, seems to exist between them. Some wear white hats, while others wear black hats and they all tell each other "I'll see you in hell" in full realization that they share an ability to traverse life and death as arbiters of both, consciously and willfully.

    It is a known fact that psychopaths and sociopaths occupy the highest echelons of power in corporations and governments. Their existence is a fact of our reality and there is a burgeoning literature dealing with this schism in the human population and the effects that each type of human have on the other. As is generally the case with such things, there is a lot of hype and the misattribution as well as conflation of primary characteristics that accompany such literature, to the detriment of truth and full understanding.

    Since these are very real differences between people, understanding is necessary. Acceptance, is also necessary. This is the nature of the world and humanity and there is no right or wrong in existence, fundamentally and beyond human agency. We attribute moral characteristics to normative reality depending upon how we are mentally and physically affected by events and people. We universalize experience to create stereotypes and fulfill archetypes, doing what humans do and often, by so doing, dehumanize each other. Psychopaths see empaths as sheep, empaths see psychopaths as wolves. There seems to be no middle ground possible.

    But, there is. And there are people who are consciously walking the dividing line between the two extremes who are choosing their life paths and directions awake and aware to that choice and making it because they choose to, which is the essence of free will and destiny. No biological wiring or environmental experience fully defines the experience of an incarnate soul; we all have choices to make, choices that define who we are to the rest of the world, beyond what some may perceive as limiting capabilities determined by physiological programming beyond our ability to consciously determine.

    At some point, sooner rather than later, the ancient pattern of interaction between the differing members of the human family must come into alignment. An agreement must be entered into that benefits the entire family. Those who believe the rest of us are cattle must be convinced that, without us, they have lost an essential element of what it means to be human. Without the existence of those of us capable of feeling and intuiting that which lies beyond the 5 normative senses, entire ranges of reality remain unknown as well as undreamt. For those who feel and sense deeply, defining those who do not as inhuman and defective - missing some fundamental aspect of basic humanity - keeps them "hiding in plain sight", pretending to be something they are not while engaging in Machiavellian machinations designed to take advantage of the herd for their own, singular and narcissistic interests.

    Some ancient cultures handled this dichotomy by recognizing the nature of psychopaths and elevating the most successful of them to the status of divine kingship. But, as a foil against their depredations if left unchecked, they practiced human sacrifice, killing their psychopathic rulers ritually and regularly to keep them from multiplying and desolating society. This is not an option that is available or even desired by our current, enlightened societies. As we move into a new reality and our world is rent by this ancient battle, this new agreement must be arrived at. Both perspectives, both experiential realities, a very real polarity of beingness, seem to be absolutely necessary to human existence. Coming to terms with this reality and speaking about it openly while working to integrate understanding in order to take the human family to the next level of our existence is what is required if we are to claim the stars as our inheritance; if we are to return this big, blue marble to her original, pristine state and find balance and relative peace.
    Interestly (synchronistically), I was addressing some of these same ideas on this other thread at the same time...

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1235010

    Narcissism and polarity.

    MM
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    Default Re: Polarity United: Psychopathy and empathy moving forward, is it possible?

    Apparently, according to Joe Vitale, Ho'oponopono, offers a solution to that dichotomy...

    Otherwise, here are a few palliatives:

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    On another hand, people with long, very ancient traditions designed their own way of detecting and dealing with these characters:
    In a 1976 study anthropologist Jane M. Murphy, then at Harvard University, found that an isolated group of Yupik-speaking Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.” When Murphy asked an Inuit what the group would typically do with a kunlangeta, he replied, “Somebody would have pushed him off the ice when nobody else was looking.”
    I also mentioned - here - that the Gypsy/Tzigane designed tests to run on kids to detect if they were tribe chief/leader material or to never let them anywhere near a position of power.


    Then, there's also "Yoghourt" detection... as I mentioned here:
    Quote At one point, while Backster was out of the room, I tried to muster up some anger by thinking of clear-cut forests and the politicians who sanction them, of abused children and their abusers. But the line depicting the electrochemical response of the yogurt remained perfectly flat. Perhaps the yogurt wasn’t interested in me. Losing interest myself, I began to wander around the lab. My eyes fell on a calendar, which, upon closer inspection, turned out to be an advertisement for a shipping company. I felt a sudden surge of anger at the ubiquity of advertising. Then I realized — a spontaneous emotion! I dashed over to the chart, and saw on it a sudden spike apparently corresponding to the moment I'd seen the ad.

    When Backster returned, I continued the interview, still excited, and perhaps a little less skeptical."

    Now go to the link to read the interview: http://thesunmagazine.org/archives/1882


    If a yoghourt can distinguish/discern and "tell" what's fake or what's "real" and the "telling" can be translated via electromagnetic means...
    [...]
    Also, if a yoghourt can do it, it becomes possible for "anything" to accurately identify psychopaths... which might be the real reason why "lie detectors" outputs and interpretations are not admissible in courts...
    Yet, if Inuits and Tziganes could handle their internal psychos, they didn't have any means to handle the external ones and are now extinct or quasi extinct.


    PS: Considering the "yogurt" reaction, one wonders where exactly those "Gut Feelings" are coming from... you know... healthy intestinal flora/fauna....
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    Default Re: Polarity United: Psychopathy and empathy moving forward, is it possible?

    Quote In a 1976 study anthropologist Jane M. Murphy, then at Harvard University, found that an isolated group of Yupik-speaking Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.” When Murphy asked an Inuit what the group would typically do with a kunlangeta, he replied, “Somebody would have pushed him off the ice when nobody else was looking.”
    I almost fell out of my chair laughing.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with somebody when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous"

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