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Thread: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ... this one (<---

    Quote So the link between the Protocols of Zion and the Freemasons may be through the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar.
    I think I already have enough rabbit holes to explore to last me over a couple millennia
    From the above link suggested by Hervé:

    ===
    For Plato. The key to it all was to have a set of laws given by god or the gods in very ancient time. That is, that the laws of a nation were supposed to have a divine origin.
    ...
    The rulers were supposed to review all literature and everything they had on hand and approve it or reject it, edit it, revise it for compatibility with these divine laws – the law code – and outlaw all foreign literature, books, etc… and the education was done by the state like for soldiers, starting at age 6 in Sparta. Thereby implementing a cultural isolation via censorship left to various councils constituted by members of the ruling class.

    Youth will accept anything you teach them using the canonical literature and it would only take a generation or two for the citizens to forget their actual history. They would then come to believe that their laws and their way of life had been revealed to their ancestors by the gods… and that they are ruled, not by kings but by gods.
    ===

    Thus I wonder whether some of the rabbit holes named in replies on this thread, such as the Freemasons, the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar, might be in some way distractions.

    Such named groups seem to come and go, and figuring out which of them controls, or was spawned from, or mutated into, which other of them doesn't seem to lead us out of this jungle we find ourselves in.

    ===

    A key purpose of my opening post in this thread was to attempt a different approach to decoding our history and current power arrangements.

    Perhaps it matters not so much the specific name or date or event described in some conspiratorial text, but rather perhaps there are underlying flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs.

    Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...

    Perhaps that was my intention in starting this thread, discussing such underlying structural flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs, not distinguishing between the Freemasons and the Knights Templar.
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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    How true, Ernie, that "off world" influences seem to play a great part in world history! Our true history has been kept from us & some are now beginning to realize this very fact!

    L. M. Howe says something to the effect of "trading in souls" seems to be the commerce of the Universe. Interesting concept!! There do seem to be various "agendas" at work here on the planet. I think of the "hubrids".

    My conclusion is that this is why it is SO difficult for the average person to even begin to understand what is REALLY going on around us. There are games being played that we have no conception of....I would say the Q phenomenon is trying to help steer us through a very confusing time. What say ye?!

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    A key purpose of my opening post in this thread was to attempt a different approach to decoding our history and current power arrangements.

    Perhaps it matters not so much the specific name or date or event described in some conspiratorial text, but rather perhaps there are underlying flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs.

    Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...

    Perhaps that was my intention in starting this thread, discussing such underlying structural flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs...
    I notice Peter Turchin and his Cliodynamics brings up few results in the Avalon search. His distinction between telluric (land) vs thalassocratic (sea) powers might be of interest to the discussion. I’m struggling to find any articles that sum it up concisely but in general, telluric (land) powers tend to be more free-roaming, nomadic, less static. Like the Scythians who were a land power, they had the entire Eurasian steppe to migrate across, if they need more food, more resources, they can just jump on a horse and migrate, they can raise cattle and follow the herd, which leads to greater freedom of movement. It leads to a more peace loving culture. It’s why cows were considered sacred in the vedas.

    The thalassocratic (sea) powers on the other hand require ports to dock, grain farming infrastructure to keep the boats supplied, defensive infrastructure around the farms and docks to secure them from land threats. To maintain the farms and infrastructure requires hard work and menial effort, so, often slaves are brought in for the upkeep; slaves to row the boats, slaves to do the hard graft or the heavy lifting.

    As a result Thalassocratic empires tend to be more innovative and technological, but also lean towards slave-holding and oligarchy.

    Life on the open seas can be a brutal existence, it creates a cut throat environment, based on the need for pillage and plunder for survival, which definitely has an impact on the psychology of the sailors. Transfer that cut-throat psychology into the dynamics of various social programs, and well, you see the damage the skull-and-bones pirates of the East India Trading Company have wrought on world affairs today.

    Cliodynamics does start to look awfully like Vedic yuga cycles when you get deeper into it though. How metaphysical can we go before it’s considered off topic? I’m currently reading the book ‘Cyclical Time and Ismaili Gnosis’ by Henry Corbin; which is about the pre-Zoroastrian Persians, the median magi and their theology of Mizraism. They understood this stuff in terms of some hyper-luminal-geometry, the likes of which I’ve never heard so eloquently before.

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Youth will accept anything you teach them using the canonical literature and it would only take a generation or two for the citizens to forget their actual history. They would then come to believe that their laws and their way of life had been revealed to their ancestors by the gods… and that they are ruled, not by kings but by gods.
    That's a good point, that any point in history is only a generation or two away from forgetting everything that just happened previously, if the propaganda is executed efficiently enough.

    Quote Thus I wonder whether some of the rabbit holes named in replies on this thread, such as the Freemasons, the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar, might be in some way distractions.

    Such named groups seem to come and go, and figuring out which of them controls, or was spawned from, or mutated into, which other of them doesn't seem to lead us out of this jungle we find ourselves in.
    It's really difficult to say how helpful information would be until it's actually explored and analyzed somewhere in full. That's what historians are for anyway, whether it ends up being useful or not. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, but until they dig it up and flesh it out it's impossible to say what we'll learn. I pick up little bits and pieces around here all the time that make the "big picture" that much more complete, but which by themselves are rather trivial and insignificant. Without the relevant context they would remain trivial and insignificant.

    Quote Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...
    There's absolutely something to that. And I also suspect what Ernie is saying is true, that ultimately this goes back to non-human influence in some form. I hesitate to say there are clearly two sides which are "good" and "evil," but I think there is some core of truth to that, despite all the shades of gray we could get into.

    My interest in all of this is figuring out who were the "good guys" and "bad guys" throughout history. And I know this is a gross oversimplification of "teams," but it's a useful framework. How societies treated children is a good litmus test, for example. The number of ancient societies which sacrificed children is staggering and I cannot believe it's by coincidence. Somehow these cults were organized across the world.

    In order to contextualize these international power-brokers throughout history, and how much relative power and influence they've had in different times and places, we have to compare and contrast them to opposing forces working against them, which have also been apparent throughout history. These are the "two sides" I tend to over-simplify things into, based perhaps most explicitly on the child sacrifice issue I mentioned previously. Graham Hancock even notices this same contrasting set of values in the Viracocha myths from South America. Those people also sacrificed people until people in white robes showed up by sea and taught them to stop doing that.


    As far as the history surrounding Plato, I want to throw this data in which comes from Fomenko:

    Quote Posted by Fomenko Chron. 1, pg. 53
    The Scaligerian chronology is very fond of the renaissance motif, appealing to the archetypal recurrence of the Classical Age.

    The ancient Plato is supposed to have been the founding father of Platonism. His teaching allegedly falls into oblivion for centuries to come, and is revived by the famous Neoplatonist Plotinus, allegedly in 205-270 A.D. The similarity of his name to that of his teacher is purely accidental, of course. Then Neoplatonism perishes as well, in order to be revived again in the XV century A.D. by another famous Platonist -- Gemisto Pleton, whose name is also identical to that of his teacher as a result of sheer coincidence. [Note that "Plato" is the English spelling; in French the name is spelled Platon, for example, so there is a natural variation here across nations which continues to exist to this day. -- Voice] The mediaeval Pleton is supposed to have revived the "ancient" Platonism, having been an avid advocate of "the ancient sage Plato." Furthermore, it is only in the XV century that Plato's manuscript was unearthed ([247], pages 143-147). This is precisely the epoch of Gemisto Pleton.

    Pleton founds "Pleton's Academy" in Florence in the image of the "ancient" Plato's Academy ([247]). A. A. Vasiliev writes that "His [Pleton's -- A.F.] sojourn in Florence... had been one of the most important periods for Italy when it was importing the ancient Greek science, and Plato's philosophy in particular" ([675], Volume 3, Pt. 2; [120]).

    Both Plato and Pleton write Utopian works. Gemisto Pleton is reported to have been the author of the famous Tractate on the Laws, which sadly failed to reach us in its entirety. However, the full text of Plato's tractate by the same title did. Pleton, who lived in the XV century, also suggests the construction of an ideal state, with his programme being extremely close to Plato's. Plotin, who had allegedly lived in 205-270 A.D., is yet another one to have hoped the Emperor would aid the foundation of the city of Platonopolis in Campagna (Italy again), where he had planned to introduce communal aristocratic institutions à la Plato. ([122], Volume 4, pages 394-397).
    Quote Posted by Fomenko Chron. 1, pg. 425
    We also find out that the genesis of "ancient" Greek history can be traced to Florence of the alleged XIV century. "The Strozzi and the Medici... have been philhellenes, they have invested their funds into... Greek literary studies... Cosimo [de Medici] conceived of the plan to revive the academy of Plato in Arno" ([195], page 330). The head of this undertaking was Pleton, the double of the "ancient" Plato in both name and occupation (see Chron1, Chapter 1). It is assumed that the propagation of the "ancient" Greek literature across Europe started in Florence.
    The numbers in brackets are keys to Fomenko's massive 1500+ bibliography that he uses consistently throughout the Chronology series. Most of the works he cites aren't in English but his bibliography is available online.

    According to this, what was promoted in Plato's name was really being pushed by the Medicis from Renaissance Italy, which was built on exactly the kind of international trade power you are talking about, Paul, and which I am naturally wary of as some kind of proto-NWO framework. The Holy Roman Empire itself could be seen as something like an early version of the European Union.

    At the same time, the HRE persecuted the Cathars/Knights Templar, and also accused them of Satanic worship. Yet the Templar are also said to have went into hiding and gave birth to Scottish Rite Freemasonry. So who are the good guys and bad guys in this? As you say, there is a lot of morphing and co-opting of movements going on. For that reason Freemasonry could have actually been a positive thing in certain times and places, combatting Catholic oppression, but in other times and places (the French Revolution comes to mind) became a force for Jacobinism (proto-Marxism), mob rule, and evil.

    Knowing exactly who is who at which point in time also becomes relevant when you consider, for example, that George Washington was a Freemason. What does that mean about George Washington? Well it depends on the specific iteration of Freemasonry we are talking about. Washington himself said in a letter that he was well aware that Jacobins, Illuminati, and Democrats were infiltrating the Freemasonic lodges to try to undermine the American Republic, but that as of yet it was of little consequence in America compared to what was going on in France. So despite him being a Freemason, I don't believe he was involved in this international order, because of all of the surrounding context.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 29th July 2018 at 23:27.

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Knowing exactly who is who at which point in time also becomes relevant when you consider, for example, that George Washington was a Freemason. What does that mean about George Washington?
    I would guess that Washington being a Freemason meant that he was knowingly and willingly working with "those without a home", the "merchant class".

    Thus would Washington have made sure there was room in his administration, as first President of the United States, for one of the premier "central bankers" of his time, Alexander Hamilton.

    Thus would Washington have been comfortable with signing and supporting a US Constitution that places international treaties above local or national law.

    Thus would Washington have played a key role in initiating the extension of America's "Manifest Destiny", colonizing across the North American continent, as a rich source of tradable resources and farmed produce, and a grand customer of manufactured goods.

    Thus would Washington have played a key role in establishing what would eventually become a strong federal government, with a strong central bank, honoring foreign treaties and the law of the sea (UCC).
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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Paul, you mention at the end of the OP, that you see a light at the end of the tunnel, that the conditions of civilization are changing so radically that the old 'traders without a nation' may finally be softening from the 'protocols of zion'. Can you share with us what makes you believe this is occuring?

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Jayke (here)
    His [Peter Turchin's] distinction between telluric (land) vs thalassocratic (sea) powers might be of interest to the discussion.
    That could be quite interesting, yes.

    For thousands of years, the least expensive means to move goods long distances was by water.

    Thus the "merchant class" would have developed to a greater degree using river, sea, and eventually ocean going trade.

    Notice for example that, in their time, the Phoenicians, Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans have gained great powers from their sea or ocean going trading and associated development of colonies and outposts, often along coast lines of foreign lands that provided more trade opportunities.

    Only now, such as with the potential completion of the Belt Road Initiative, with rail and pipeline connecting the Eurasian-African landmass, is this balance of power shifting, from the ocean favoring merchants, to those controlling the great mineral resources of the major land masses, most especially the Eurasian-African landmass.

    The balance of power is shifting to those with access to the Eurasian-African landmass, such as the Asian powers China, Russia, and Iran. Though India is also on the Asian continent, it is somewhat isolated from the rest of Asia by the Himalayan mountains, and has been somewhat more exposed to the colonization of the British Empire, due to its long coastline on the Indian Ocean, so India is not yet so well integrated with this shifting power base.

    What will matter for the coming century is not the cost of shipping across the surface of this planet earth, but rather the availability of mineral resources, to initiate colonization and mining of the solar system. Thus central Asia is becoming a key nexus of power, and naval power is declining in importance.

    A great shift is occurring, unlike any we've seen in a long, long time.
    Last edited by Paul; 30th July 2018 at 02:33.
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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Paul, you mention at the end of the OP, that you see a light at the end of the tunnel, that the conditions of civilization are changing so radically that the old 'traders without a nation' may finally be softening from the 'protocols of zion'. Can you share with us what makes you believe this is occuring?
    Two things come to mind that might be shifting power away from the merchants and bankers of zion:
    1. The first thing is what I had in mind when I wrote that comment, in the opening post (OP). Rapid changes in the technologies of communication, the handling of international monetary transactions, and global information sharing are changing our world, from collection of somewhat separate nations, connected by merchants and bankers, to a more unified world, directly communicating and trading (at least the monetary part) with each other globally.
    2. The second thing is what I just wrote in my previous post above, that power is shifting from ocean going merchants, to land based miners. The key limiting factor over this century will be the cost and availability of the various minerals needed to build the first generation of the equipment to colonize and mine the solar system.
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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Knowing exactly who is who at which point in time also becomes relevant when you consider, for example, that George Washington was a Freemason. What does that mean about George Washington?
    I would guess that Washington being a Freemason meant that he was knowingly and willingly working with "those without a home", the "merchant class".
    That's what's interesting about taking that side glance off at the American Freemasons of that period, because even though there was definitely some masonic influence in the founding of this country, our founders enacted policies in direct opposition to what the masonic Jacobins were doing in France. So if they were pushing the same agenda, it came out in two completely different ways somehow. And that's what's makes this interesting.

    The French Revolution would have produced a situation similar to England's today if they had stopped at the imposition of a constitution on the king, but they didn't. After they got their constitution, the Jacobins used a masonic lodge in Paris to organize a bunch of mob rioting until they create enough paranoia and hostility against the king to have him and the queen executed. The Declaration of the Rights of Man is a proto-Marxist document because it gives the government priority over individual rights, ie the old excuse of acting in public interest when taking away citizens' rights. Our Declaration of Independence put the rights of the individual as sacrosanct, and inalienable. That is the major philosophical difference, a top-down versus bottom-up idea of where power comes from, that defines the difference between what the French Freemasons accomplished, and what happened in America.

    Put in that context, it makes sense that Washington was telling the truth in his correspondence when he wrote that he was aware of Jacobin influence in America, along with Illuminati and Democrats (which they saw as promoting mob rule), but that they weren't a dominating force in American Freemasonry. Washington's presidency (and the presidency in general) is more closely modeled on the British monarchy and it's legislature and courts, than it is the chaos that the Jacobins created in France. So whereas our president is our power-restricted version of a king, the Jacobins in France were cutting the head off of their king and creating elaborate bureaucracy instead. That's also a major difference.

    It's not unthinkable that American Freemasonic lodges had a different culture by that time than the lodges of France. We had direct immigration from Scotland, probably moreso than France of that period, and the wilderness they were taming creating a much different political atmosphere than metropolitan France.

    Quote Thus would Washington have made sure there was room in his administration, as first President of the United States, for one of the premier "central bankers" of his time, Alexander Hamilton.
    From how that decision is usually recounted, it wasn't something that he decided lightly, as he had Thomas Jefferson as his Secretary of State vehemently arguing against it and it was causing an embarrassing drama in his cabinet. I think Washington wanted an empire, though (he proudly referred to New York as the future seat of American empire), and he wasn't ashamed to enact policies to help establish that. Jefferson was not seeking an empire and was deeply divided even over the Louisiana Purchase, which should have been a no-brainer. This is more in line with what most of the states wanted: powerful state governments and a weak federal government.

    If you look at Washington's biography and take him as an individual, he was very ambitious, always seeking public glory though he acted like he wasn't, and had a terrible temper. He also committed some cruel acts while he was a young military officer, violating international military custom and angering the French. He hadn't been born into wealth but married into it and ruthlessly sought ways to make a name for himself ever since then. So he probably would have approved the same policies regardless of being affiliated with the Freemasons or not. That's just who Washington was as a person, and I see it as more fascistic than Marxist or masonic.

    Quote Thus would Washington have been comfortable with signing and supporting a US Constitution that places international treaties above local or national law.
    The limits of federal supremacy weren't clearly established that early on. If you look at the Virginia and Kentucky resolutions of 1798, which were written by Madison and Jefferson, they were asserting what would seem like an enormous expansion of states' rights to us today. But that was still their understanding back then, that the states were supreme in everything that wasn't explicitly stated otherwise in the Constitution.

    The Treaty Clause enables the federal government to agree to international treaties that carry the weight of federal law in the US. What did the weight of federal law mean in George Washington's era? According to the philosophy agreed upon by most of the states, and re-asserted by Jefferson and Madison in 1798, the limits of federal law are clearly circumscribed within the Constitution, and anything beyond that is at the discretion of the states per the 10th Amendment. So, for example, the Alien and Sedition Act that the Adams administration passed, making it illegal to criticize the government or assemble in groups to protest, was outside of federal authority, even in direct contravention to it, and the states themselves could ignore the law or legally nullify it within their own borders. It took that Civil War to finally convince the states that the Federal Government was the final authority, but then again you still see states passing marijuana laws against federal law today.

    Washington definitely wanted a strong federal government, but he was still constrained by a Constitution that stood for decentralization in the eyes of most of its signers, whereas the masons in France approved a document that very clearly established a supremacy of government. So there are still these differences that have to be resolved, and there can't be a quick and easy equivalency drawn between the Freemasons in France and the Freemasons in America in the late 18th century.

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Notice for example that, in their time, the Phoenicians, Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans have gained great powers from their sea or ocean going trading and associated development of colonies and outposts, often along coast lines of foreign lands that provided more trade opportunities.
    And the Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese. I don't think there is a common ideology underlying all of these seagoing adventures though, unless it's pure ambition. There has always been a lot of legitimate competition between different nations. The reason the current "merchant class" is as prominent as it is, is because their form of competition follows different rules than the rest of us, a different underlying philosophy that treats people like cattle. That's really the distinguishing feature if you ask me.

    If we can take our historical seafaring ambitions and turn them toward the stars, we can accomplish some amazing things. But all the back-door pillaging, raping, and all the other psychopathic stuff going on has to stop. If that could successfully be rooted out then those seafaring ambitions could still be useful.

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Perhaps it matters not so much the specific name or date or event described in some conspiratorial text, but rather perhaps there are underlying flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs.

    Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...

    Perhaps that was my intention in starting this thread, discussing such underlying structural flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs, not distinguishing between the Freemasons and the Knights Templar.
    I know this may sound silly, but I once read a book (poker without cards) and it shows pirates in a different light. In a way they were the merchants of the sea, people without a home, and they had Phoenicians/Babylonian ties. They created colonies, trade and monetary systems, and maritime laws to manage everything.
    I feel the way pirates have been portrayed in history as barbaric, pillaging, and savage is just a smokescreen on how prolific and smart and calculating they actually were.
    Last edited by Paul; 30th July 2018 at 08:29. Reason: trim quoted material

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Jad (here)
    I know this may sound silly, but I once read a book (poker without cards) and it shows pirates in a different light. In a way they were the merchants of the sea, people without a home, and they had Phoenicians/Babylonian ties. They created colonies, trade and monetary systems, and maritime laws to manage everything.
    I feel the way pirates have been portrayed in history as barbaric, pillaging, and savage is just a smokescreen on how prolific and smart and calculating they actually were.
    Pirates are an interesting case. The skull and crossbones associated with piracy is actually a masonic symbol, used to represent the 'great equalizer: death'. On 'Black' Friday, October 13, 1307, pope clement excommunicated the knights templar (for basically becoming too wealthy and powerful). The knights templar were warrior monks, from the crusades, and they had a standing navy. After black friday most, if not all, of that navy disappeared, likely becoming 'pirates'. This fact ties into the 'sea-faring traders without a home' theme of this thread, since the templars, before their demise, were savy bankers whom most European royalty owed a great deal of money. The king of france, and spain i believe, were backers of the black friday excommunication, because it releived them of having to pay a lot of debt.
    Last edited by Paul; 30th July 2018 at 08:30. Reason: trim quoted material

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Notice for example that, in their time, the Phoenicians, Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans have gained great powers from their sea or ocean going trading and associated development of colonies and outposts, often along coast lines of foreign lands that provided more trade opportunities.
    And the Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese. I don't think there is a common ideology underlying all of these seagoing adventures though, unless it's pure ambition.
    I agree - apparently not a common ideology underlying all of these.

    But I do see a common ideology, and connected history and ancestry, underlying at least the Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans.

    I am saying: Not all A are B, but those in B are in, or descend from, those in A, where A is "merchants over water", and B is "those described in the Elders of the Zion document".

    One difference may be that the Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese had a "home", a national base.

    The money lenders in Venice and other European nations a few centuries ago were not the locals. They were not those who identified, for generations back, as Italian, Spanish, Dutch, or whatever. Rather they were "without a home", a separate merchant class, often with ancestry that included Ashkenazi Jews.

    Not all naval merchants became thus, but these particular ones did, and are still with us, as merchants, money lenders, and other positions of influence useful to their purposes.

    Being the merchants and money lenders, without a home nation, was part of their heritage that played a critical role in shaping their culture and the manner of their influence on human civilization.
    Last edited by Paul; 30th July 2018 at 08:30.
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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Our Declaration of Independence put the rights of the individual as sacrosanct, and inalienable.
    But our (US) Constitution is less explicit about this, specifically granting certain rights in the first ten amendments (the "Bill of Rights") rather than presuming all individual rights are sacrosanct and inalienable, and providing a basis for what would turn into a far more tyrannical government, over the subsequent two centuries, rather as might have been expected of a "democracy."

    It is the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence, that purports to be legally binding on our current US federal government, and those legal constraints are honored more in the breach as time progresses.
    Last edited by Paul; 30th July 2018 at 08:39.
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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Coincidence ?



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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    And the Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese. I don't think there is a common ideology underlying all of these seagoing adventures though, unless it's pure ambition
    I agree - apparently not a common ideology underlying all of these.

    But I do see a common ideology, and connected history and ancestry, underlying at least the Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans.

    I am saying: Not all A are B, but those in B are in, or descend from, those in A, where A is "merchants over water", and B is "those described in the Elders of the Zion document".
    Fair enough, and you could probably even throw in the Silk Road and the overland African slave trade into the Middle East for good measure.

    Quote Being the merchants and money lenders, without a home nation, was part of their heritage that played a critical role in shaping their culture and the manner of their influence on human civilization.
    I see what you're trying to emphasize. It's a logical explanation.


    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Our Declaration of Independence put the rights of the individual as sacrosanct, and inalienable.
    But our (US) Constitution is less explicit about this, specifically granting certain rights in the first ten amendments (the "Bill of Rights") rather than presuming all individual rights are sacrosanct and inalienable, and providing a basis for what would turn into a far more tyrannical government, over the subsequent two centuries, rather as might have been expected of a "democracy."

    It is the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence, that purports to be legally binding on our current US federal government, and those legal constraints are honored more in the breach as time progresses.
    You're right that the Constitution could only be ratified after its language had been watered down to being so vague about the role of individual rights and state rights that federal supremacists would later have room to maneuver their manipulative arguments. That's why historians and originalists are always pointing back to the debates in which these things were decided, because it's clear that there was an intention to sabotage the common understanding of the agreement from the very beginning.

    There were lots of people back when it was ratified who objected to the Bill of Rights on the exact grounds you mention, that they shouldn't have to explicitly enumerate rights and give the impression that the government was giving permission for things it had no authority to.


    Speaking of merchants and trade by sea, that's where New England and New York were making all of their big money even in colonial days. In fact let's take it back one further. Did you know that Cotton Mather, the preacher in charge during the Witch Trials, preferred to be called rabbi in private? The Puritans were legalistic religious zealots after a Talmudic tradition. That should tell you just about everything you need to know about the founding of the Yankee North and why they carried on the way that they did back then. Fortunately they were still enough of a minority at the time of the Constitution's ratification that we didn't do anything as radical as the French, and were still able to maintain most of our Anglo-Saxon legal traditions intact from the Magna Carta.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 30th July 2018 at 17:26.

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    I just came across this and wasn’t sure where to put it. If there’s a better place for it, please move it. It’s President Nixon and Billy Graham discussing Israeli and the Zionist agenda being pushed in the US at that time, and the backlash it was liable to cause.



    Quote “You know, it's unfortunate," Nixon says. "But this has happened to the Jews. It happened in Spain, it happened in Germany, it's happening -- and now it's going to happen in America if these people don't start behaving it may be they have a death wish. You know that's been the problem with our Jewish friends for centuries."

    After Nixon talks about behavior, Graham says, "The Bible talks about two kinds of Jews. One is called the synagogue of Satan, they're the ones putting out pornographic literature, they're the ones putting out these obscene films."
    Graham goes on to say that his wife had already cancelled their subscriptions to Time and Newsweek because of the garbage they were publishing. This was in the 1970’s. It looks like a very frank and revealing conversation from Nixon.

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Speaking of merchants and trade by sea, that's where New England and New York were making all of their big money even in colonial days. In fact let's take it back one further. Did you know that Cotton Mather, the preacher in charge during the Witch Trials, preferred to be called rabbi in private? The Puritans were legalistic religious zealots after a Talmudic tradition.
    Miles Mathis frequently traces portions of the ancestry of key Zionist/Jewish families in the United States back to Cotton Mather and others involved in the Salem Witchcraft Trials of 1692-93, in Salem Massachusetts, which is on the Atlantic coast just north of Boston.

    I grew up in Salem, New York, which is a couple hundred miles west of Salem, Massachusetts. Even as a child, I knew that the Salem I lived in was better known, outside of our local area, as being not the Salem of those witchcraft trials. We were the other Salem.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    That should tell you just about everything you need to know about the founding of the Yankee North and why they carried on the way that they did back then.
    Aha - I should have noticed this long ago - but your comments here just brought this to my mind for the first time. Some of the people in the northern states were known as Yankee Traders, which Wikipedia describes by saying:
    Yankee traders is a term used historically to refer to American merchants and drug smugglers, particularly around the turn of the 19th century. Many of the Yankee traders came from Boston or other New England ports — hence the appellation "Yankee". They were reputed to be particularly shrewd and independent.
    If that's not a genteel way of describing the sea going Zionist merchants discussed in this thread, then I'll be a monkey's uncle.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Graham goes on to say that his wife had already cancelled their subscriptions to Time and Newsweek because of the garbage they were publishing.
    More than once, I've wished that I had subscriptions to Time and Newsweek ... just so that I could have the pleasure of sending them a nasty cancellation letter.

    But, alas, I've never been a subscriber to them that I can recall now.
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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Lordy!- I'm just learning so much from the comments on this absolutely riveting thread- many thanks to all who are posting such highly researched, incredibly valuable info-

    Avalon at its best-

    Larry :-)

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    Default Re: Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Aha - I should have noticed this long ago - but your comments here just brought this to my mind for the first time. Some of the people in the northern states were known as Yankee Traders, which Wikipedia describes by saying:
    Yankee traders is a term used historically to refer to American merchants and drug smugglers, particularly around the turn of the 19th century. Many of the Yankee traders came from Boston or other New England ports — hence the appellation "Yankee". They were reputed to be particularly shrewd and independent.
    If that's not a genteel way of describing the sea going Zionist merchants discussed in this thread, then I'll be a monkey's uncle.
    They were the slave traders, too.

    Virginia, despite being a slave state, was the first to ban the importation of slaves, if I remember correctly. Most of the money being made from the slave trade was going to New England, and about half of the slave traders were Jewish. About half of slave-owners in the South were also Jewish, though slave-owners only made up something like 3% of the general population in the South (this only counts heads of household who actually legally possessed slaves, not other family members who also benefitted from the labor).

    The ironic thing about those Yankees was, though they had no problem bringing tens of thousands of slaves into the South, they didn't want blacks living amongst them in the North. In the South, even though slavery existed, blacks and whites usually lived together because of this arrangement, even within the same house. Racial mixing was only a taboo when it came to making babies, not for social interactions. Blacks and whites went to the same churches, etc. When Civil War history is taught, it's taught that the Yankees didn't want the institution of slavery expanded into the West. That's not entirely accurate. They didn't want black people in the West. Most Northerners were uninterested in interfering with the institution of slavery, but nearly all of them were offended by the idea of living among black people. I could go on and on about manipulation of Civil War history but that's another thread. The South was run by some evil aristocrats styling themselves after feudal lords, but they weren't just a bunch of WASPs, though the WASPs seem to have taken all of the blame.

    Btw, this is a great institution for preserving Southern culture and our side of the story, warts and all: The Abbeville Institute.

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