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Thread: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

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    Default Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    I've just started this new thread, by moving 11 posts from this one, where discussing Hal Puthoff's [very interesting!] history was pretty much taking the thread (about AATIP, TTSA and Bob Bigelow) off-topic.

    But the subject itself is fascinating, so here we can dive into that in as much depth as we want to.

    I know quite a bit about Hal Puthoff and his career, so I'd be happy to answer any questions at all.

    (Note re Zak247's post #9 below: ATS (abovetopsecret.com) is NOT an authoritative source on all this. And Isaac Koi, who wrote the ATS thread you referenced, and who you stated was 'impeccable', has some of his information 100% quite wrong.)

    I had maybe wrongly assumed that members already knew quite a bit about Hal's background with Remote Viewing (and much else!), so please forgive me if I was incorrect. The posts below lay out a foundation for the discussion.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 30th July 2018 at 00:37.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    Puthoff seems to have a desire to examine believers in things like Ufology, as if their lavatory rats.
    Mod note from Bill:

    You mean: "as if they're laboratory rats."

    Please take more care with your posting. You write things really fast, on a kind of 'fire-and-forget' basis. It often seems that you just don't read what you've written after you've posted it, rather like sharing a stream of consciousness.

    But — what did you mean, when you wrote that Puthoff has "a desire to examine believers in things like Ufology". Where did that come from?

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    No Bill, just an oversight


    My information, I’ll look it up and get you a source soon, about him is he has an interest in people who have exotic beliefs in the occult and things like Ufology.
    Last edited by Zak247; 29th July 2018 at 20:59.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    No Bill, just an oversight

    My information, I’ll look it up and get you a source soon, about him is he has an interest in people who have exotic beliefs in the occult and things like Ufology.
    Of course, so do all the thousand-plus active members of this forum.

    Hal's always been interested in Ufology and esoteric subjects. He was in the Church of Scientology until the late 70s (a few years before the 'Church' was taken over), and by 1971 had completed advanced processing up to OT 7. He'd have been very familiar with operational telepathy on a subjective basis.

    Dr Christopher ('Kit') Green (a very close friend of his to this day), Ingo Swann (OT 7), and Pat Price (OT 4) were all former Scientologists (though Russell Targ was not), and Co-ordinate Remote Viewing (CRV, developed by Ingo Swann), was based on the protocols for Scientology sessions. (Which is why it works!)

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    No Bill, just an oversight

    My information, I’ll look it up and get you a source soon, about him is he has an interest in people who have exotic beliefs in the occult and things like Ufology.
    Of course, so do all the thousand-plus active members of this forum.

    Hal's always been interested in Ufology and esoteric subjects. He was in the Church of Scientology until the late 70s (a few years before the 'Church' was taken over), and by 1971 had completed advanced processing up to OT 7. He'd have been very familiar with operational telepathy on a subjective basis.

    Dr Christopher ('Kit') Green (a very close friend of his to this day), Ingo Swann (OT 7), and Pat Price (OT 4) were all former Scientologists (though Russell Targ was not), and Co-ordinate Remote Viewing (CRV, developed by Ingo Swann), was based on the protocols for Scientology sessions. (Which is why it works!)
    Hal Puthoff has an extensive relationship to extraordinary consciousness related subject matter

    Puthoff has a history of studying occult, ESP, and topics relating to consciousness studies.
    My assertion about his intentions is a matter of a personal opinion.
    If you have any issues with a personal opinion then that to me is problematic.

    If you want me to justify my opinion to you then that something I can’t do. All I can do is point you to the history of this CIA/DIA connected UFO researcher.

    https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/v...onremota_5.htm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 30th July 2018 at 23:57.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    No Bill, just an oversight

    My information, I’ll look it up and get you a source soon, about him is he has an interest in people who have exotic beliefs in the occult and things like Ufology.
    Of course, so do all the thousand-plus active members of this forum.

    Hal's always been interested in Ufology and esoteric subjects. He was in the Church of Scientology until the late 70s (a few years before the 'Church' was taken over), and by 1971 had completed advanced processing up to OT 7. He'd have been very familiar with operational telepathy on a subjective basis.

    Dr Christopher ('Kit') Green (a very close friend of his to this day), Ingo Swann (OT 7), and Pat Price (OT 4) were all former Scientologists (though Russell Targ was not), and Co-ordinate Remote Viewing (CRV, developed by Ingo Swann), was based on the protocols for Scientology sessions. (Which is why it works!)
    Hal Puthoff has an extensive relationship to extraordinary consciousness related subject matter

    Puthoff has a history of studying occult, ESP, and topics relating to consciousness studies.

    You never read my post.
    I was explaining what Hal Puthoff's interest was, and its background, and a little about his history (re his 1970s SRI research) with Ingo Swann, Pat Price, et al.) I was saying that this was really nothing exceptional.

    It sounds as if you don't know who these people are, or maybe thought that Avalon members didn't know about his ground-breaking SRI (Stanford Research Institute) research into Remote Viewing. And meanwhile, John Alexander and Bert Stubblebine (who was a 4 star general!) used to hold spoon-bending parties. Etc etc etc.

    See this book (although it's written as a semi-comedy, and is NOT very good):
    I'm trying to share some documented history with you. I know quite a lot about this stuff.

    Summary: of course, "Hal Puthoff has an extensive relationship to extraordinary consciousness related subject matter". It's widely known.

    Just to close the post, he has several major sections devoted to him in Lynne McTaggart's excellent book The Field. Look him up in the index... it's well worth reading.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    Hal Puthoff has an extensive relationship to extraordinary consciousness related subject matter

    Puthoff has a history of studying occult, ESP, and topics relating to consciousness studies.
    My assertion about his intentions is a matter of a personal opinion.
    If you have any issues with a personal opinion then that to me is problematic.

    Zak247
    Personal opinions and analysis are great! Based on the historical facts you mention above, I was curious about entering into a dialogue in this discussion thread about this particular opinion you posted earlier:

    Quote Posted by Zak247
    On one level this routine TTSA is performing doesn’t bother me, since I think it's clear what they're about: the dissemination of disinformation.

    But what bothers me, and this is where the sinister aspect comes in, is that Puthoff seems to have a desire to examine believers in things like Ufology, as if their laboratory rats
    I think it is quite a pickle that many on the TTS Academy have a history of interaction with intelligence agencies (including those not mentioned or shown on any of their videos). In my opinion there could certainly be some sinister aspects to their stated desire to design a cell phone app- particularly given their disclosed goal of designing brain-computer telepathy interfaces in their offering circular.

    But what specifically about Puthoff's desire to examine believers like laboratory rats is sinister as it pertains to the other issue you raise of disinformation? Because you already mentioned that:

    Quote Posted by Zak247
    Interestingly, they say they don’t want the UFO believers to be their target but they want the uninformed public, the UFO neophytes, to be their students. That in itself may be an indication of their intent.
    What do you think the end-goal of this is, in a sinister way? Are you thinking mind control of UFO neophytes, or just getting as much money from people as possible? Or something worse?
    Last edited by Joe from the Carolinas; 29th July 2018 at 23:12.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    I don’t respect and certainly don’t trust ex-CIA agents or even people associated with the CIA going into UFOlogy after they have been involved in the kind of research Puthoff has been involved in, including a stint in scientology.
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1074447/pg4

    Quote As discussed in relation to Jacques Vallee (see Section H1 above), the first two volumes of Vallee’s personal journals (i.e. Jacques Vallee’s books “Forbidden Science” Volumes 1 and 2) refer to Hal Puthoff a few dozen times, including mentioned how Vallee met him at a lecture Vallee gave at the Palo Alto Research Group and Puthoff invited Valllee to Puthoff’s lab. More interesting to me personally are the various entries in Vallee’s journals to discussions with Puthoff regarding UFOs. Those entries include one for 7 October 1972 about Puthoff mentioning that a former colleague of Puthoff at the NSA had told Puthoff that a fresh study of UFOs was secretly under way in the government. An entry for the following week (on 15 October 1972) refers to a discussion between Vallee and Puthoff about Puthoff’s “Washington contacts”. Vallee commented in his journal that “the risk in approaching them is to get caught in weird games; I will have to stay on my guard”. Puthoff subsequently put Vallee in touch with Howell McConnell (an individual at the NSA that I will eventually cover in a long thread about the NSA and UFOs…). An entry for 21 February 1973 notes that Puthoff had come back from a trip to Washington and had spoken to (unnamed) Government officials in a position to discover the true state of affairs” about UFOs. Vallee states that they told Puthoff that people who recently saw strange objects in the sky in the Southwest had only been watching classified prototypes. However, they reportedly also conceded to Puthoff that there were “true” saucers. Puthoff told Vallee that his high-level contacts walked around with UFO books in their briefcases, particularly Vallee’s books. Vallee stated in his journal that he found this “depressing”, commenting “Doesn't that imply that they know less than I do?”. Entries for 2 November 1973 and 17 November 1973 both record claims by Puthoff that he had identified the leader of a CIA group that monitored the UFO field.
    edit on 8-7-2015 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)
    Here some more information for you

    I’ll be glad to get you more if you want it.

    Even though I wonder do you ask people here to get the same kind of information when they slam George Soros?

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1074447/pg4

    Read the link and you'll get extensive information about Puthoff that at lease makes my suspicions very reasonable.
    And the source of the information is impeccable

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    I don’t respect and certainly don’t trust ex-CIA agents or even people associated with the CIA going into UFOlogy after they have been involved in the kind of research Puthoff has been involved in, including a stint in scientology.
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1074447/pg4

    Quote As discussed in relation to Jacques Vallee (see Section H1 above), the first two volumes of Vallee’s personal journals (i.e. Jacques Vallee’s books “Forbidden Science” Volumes 1 and 2) refer to Hal Puthoff a few dozen times, including mentioned how Vallee met him at a lecture Vallee gave at the Palo Alto Research Group and Puthoff invited Valllee to Puthoff’s lab. More interesting to me personally are the various entries in Vallee’s journals to discussions with Puthoff regarding UFOs. Those entries include one for 7 October 1972 about Puthoff mentioning that a former colleague of Puthoff at the NSA had told Puthoff that a fresh study of UFOs was secretly under way in the government. An entry for the following week (on 15 October 1972) refers to a discussion between Vallee and Puthoff about Puthoff’s “Washington contacts”. Vallee commented in his journal that “the risk in approaching them is to get caught in weird games; I will have to stay on my guard”. Puthoff subsequently put Vallee in touch with Howell McConnell (an individual at the NSA that I will eventually cover in a long thread about the NSA and UFOs…). An entry for 21 February 1973 notes that Puthoff had come back from a trip to Washington and had spoken to (unnamed) Government officials in a position to discover the true state of affairs” about UFOs. Vallee states that they told Puthoff that people who recently saw strange objects in the sky in the Southwest had only been watching classified prototypes. However, they reportedly also conceded to Puthoff that there were “true” saucers. Puthoff told Vallee that his high-level contacts walked around with UFO books in their briefcases, particularly Vallee’s books. Vallee stated in his journal that he found this “depressing”, commenting “Doesn't that imply that they know less than I do?”. Entries for 2 November 1973 and 17 November 1973 both record claims by Puthoff that he had identified the leader of a CIA group that monitored the UFO field.
    edit on 8-7-2015 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)
    Here some more information for you

    I’ll be glad to get you more if you want it.

    Even though I wonder do you ask people here to get the same kind of information when they slam George Soros?

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1074447/pg4

    Read the link and you'll get extensive information about Puthoff that at lease makes my suspicions very reasonable.
    And the source of the information is impeccable
    Zak, this is all old news. (And old rumors, about 'The Aviary'.) I know Hal. I have a standing invitation for a cappuccino at the Institute of Advanced Studies in Austin, TX. I once spent two 12 hours days with him, personally, 1:1. He's a smart, gentle, generous, able, acutely aware man.

    What I'll do is move these posts to a new thread (it's a valid, independent topic), called: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology. This is all fascinating stuff, and I may have been incorrect in my assumptions about how much of this was already widely known.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    Who in their right state of mind would trust an organization with ex-CIA and government agents clearly involved?
    Right. The thing here is not to mix things up too much. Richard Dolan talked about Hal Puthoff and his presentation, the one this thread is about...
    ... extensively, for over 25 mins, in his 26 July livestream. Richard also knows Hal, and I think he and I would both agree that Hal's presence in TTSA may be the ONLY thing that makes it all worth taking seriously.

    The other guys all have agendas, or backgrounds, I'd not trust. But Hal is 82 now, and I suspect he really did make a judgment call that this might just be a legitimate (or legitimized) way of getting out some of what he knows (and he knows a LOT). His recent presentation does support that.

    This thread really started when Zak247 made a remark, that I didn't understand at first (and maybe still don't!), that "Puthoff seems to have a desire to examine believers in things like Ufology".

    My response in explanation was that Hal Puthoff has ALWAYS had a personal interest in 'things like ufology', and indeed, in esoteric subjects in general.

    To bring the thread back to its new topic, Hal started the SRI remote viewing research project while he was still in the Church of Scientology, and so were Ingo Swann and Pat Price, two of the three 'stars' of the program. (The third was Uri Geller, who, though he was an Israeli stage magician, in some cases actually WAS a real magician, and not a 'fake' one using sleight-of-hand tricks. )

    The whole idea of the SRI research program was suggested by Ingo Swann, who was a Scientology colleague of Hal Puthoff already. Ingo already knew perfectly well what he could do, of course.

    It was then Hal (with his non-Scientology colleague Russell Targ, both accredited scientists) who applied to the US government for funding. The entire motivation for the US wanting to start their own research into this was that the Russians had been investigating all this for quite a long time already. That research is documented in this more-than-fascinating book:

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    In my case: seeing though time, past life recall - including that of being on other planets in other forms - with my own anecdotal scientific proofing, speaking in other people's minds, daylight waking future visions that have come true (global scenarios), and making a crowd of thousands act to my psychic direction and contrary to their will (long story, and no it should not be told as to how -as such things are not trivial), bringing down the lightning, and so on.

    One has to be careful, as one time, by accident, I was so loud in my thoughts, that I caused another driver, 4 lanes away, to punch their throttle and drive right out into oncoming traffic. Whoops..... It can be seen that this can be very dangerous at times, if one is not careful. Gots ta keep your damper down... Why? well it might be obvious, maybe not...

    Oh yes, hundreds of OBE's, lucid dreaming and/or remote viewing.

    Re Hal Puthoff, Ingo, etc...It's fun stuff to find, a verification and validation of a sort.
    Last edited by Carmody; 30th July 2018 at 03:20.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Blimey.......

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Zak247, replying to Joe from the Carolinas (here)

    You don’t know the history of the government’s disinformation program on UFOlogy.

    It's extensive. Read Dolan's books
    It's Dolan. With an 'a'.

    Man, you don't even stop to think.

    And in that reply to Joe, you're just being insulting. Enough already.

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    One last comment.
    I think they are hiding the truth about UFOlogy and the IC [= intelligence community] is the front line in that operation.
    [...]
    Good night
    Of course they are !! Every single person reading this knows that.

    Goodnight!
    I know all of this about Puthoff and more, such as the Serpo episode.

    You obviously are well aware of that story, so am I...

    I want to repeat, I have no issue with these people as individuals, Puthoff, Kit Green and all of the so-called Aviary, as well as Elizondo. My attitude is that ex-CIA agents or other ex-government agents can’t be trusted in this endeavor in UFOlogy when they become a part of any organized supposed disclosure attempt.
    I don’t care if Puthoff was the POPE’s best friend, I wouldn’t trust any ex-CIA guy in this field. The record is too littered with their victims and their sinister activities of the control of the population.

    The reason I personally was repelled by Steve Greer’s recent work Unacknowledged was that he had Richard Doty as a witness, a certain disinformation agent.

    I guess I better be careful, Doty might be another buddy of yours.
    So if we criticize even indirectly your buddy's that's taboo too?

    Interesting, the same people who so vehemently condemn the CIA over Trump are mighty quiet when we condemn their input in controlling UFOlogy and actions like MKultra.

    Did I spell everything right, Bill?

    Did I dot all my i's and cross all of my T's?
    Last edited by Zak247; 30th July 2018 at 16:04.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    I know all of this about Puthoff and more, such as the Serpo episode.

    You obviously are well aware of that story, so am I...
    Do tell us what you think you know. But not on this thread! The Serpo thread is here.
    A one-stop-shop summary is my post #5:
    Quote Posted by Zak247 (here)
    So if we criticize even indirectly your buddy's that's taboo too?
    Anyone can criticize anyone they like here (including me!) — as long as they get their facts right. Accurate, detailed information is one of the things this forum is committed to.


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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    I'm going to try to bring this new thread back on track. (Might be impossible! But I'll try. )

    That's about the Scientological origins of Remote Viewing. It's all kind of background interest (and really isn't connected with anything happening with TTSA or any of the other players on that scene). But I think it really is fascinating.

    What Scientology processing does (if it's properly and ethically applied!) is remove barriers to latent ability. To quite some degree (i.e. largely, but not completely), that's called a process of 'negative gain'.

    'Negative gain' is like to get your car to go faster, you don't need a bigger engine. Just stop the stuck brakes from binding and slowing you down. The engine's just fine.

    So it is with many people. We all have these psychic abilities, but in almost all of us they're buried under piles of accumulated stuff that we've gathered with us, or is kind of stuck to us, because of past incidents that have occurred — often in previous lives.

    So, what Scientology processing does is to remove those barriers; get rid of all that accumulated junk. Then, gradually, the person becomes more and more psychic. (Or, to be more exact, the psychic ability that they already had becomes more accessible again.)

    Other abilities increase as well, of course. But here, we're just talking about the psychic stuff.

    I'm sure Ingo Swann and Pat Price were pretty psychic before they ever entered Scientology. But by the time they'd reached the 'levels' of OT 7 and OT 4 (respectively), they were then really psychic.

    And Hal Puthoff, having completed OT 7 himself, might not have had the same basic ability, but he sure would have known all about it and how it all worked. Anyone who's spent any time doing scientology processing (in or outside the 'Church') is completely familiar with psychic processes, and 'remote views' all the time.

    So, all these abilities were already in full swing BEFORE the SRI research started. That didn't reveal anything... it just documented it, and Ingo Swann (in developing Co-ordinate Remote Viewing, which was based on the protocols for standard Scientology sessions) was just making it all more controllable and dependable as a goal in itself, rather than an incidental by-product of more general processes.

    Hal Puthoff himself wasn't a remote viewing superstar, though he could certainly do it. The thing to understand here is that he (more than Russell Targ, for sure) already knew all about what could be done. His SRI mission was to document it, measure it, and fine-tune it so it could be used predictably and with confidence. That's what was new.

    ***

    A word about the so-called 'levels': like 'OT 7', 'OT 4', and all the rest. ('OT 7' was the highest at the time Hal was there, in the 1970s.)

    These aren't (in any way!) like Freemasonry levels, where one is told by some superior when one can now advance, as it were. Not should it be a hierarchy, or worn as any kind of badge of honor.

    Each 'OT level' is a sequence of carefully structured and exact processes which are done to completion. That's all. When one finishes one set of processes, then one goes on to the next... just a little like chapters in a big book that one's working through.

    Each group of processes might actually take quite a number of months to complete... there's a lot to it. Each time one finishes a process, some part of the old junk (the 'brakes on the car') gets unstuck and falls away, or is often erased (disappears) completely.

    And that's forever, so this is a good thing. These gains are permanent, and will accompany the spiritual being across lifetimes, unless they start doing dumb things as humans and bring it all back in again.

    You can't jump around, there are no shortcuts, and you have to do the work. There's quite some similarity with traditional Buddhist practice, as some may already know. That goes in the same kind of sequencing, as well.

    So... that was the raw material that Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ were working with, right from the very start. It's been claimed that many others in the program also had a scientology background, and I see no reason to doubt that: in fact, I'd think it was very likely.

    I know one person personally who was in the program, who's always asked me to keep their name confidential (it doesn't appear in the books on the topic), who was also in scientology, though they were very young at the time.

    The main exception was Uri Geller, who as I stated earlier really WAS a genuine magician — at least sometimes. He'd had nothing to do with scientology at all. Hal and Russell have written with great humor about how almost impossibly difficult it was to control Geller, who never had the patience to do boring tests over and over and over again, but was always manifesting ridiculously extreme psi abilities in coffee breaks when no scientific controls were in place.

    I hope some readers might find this all as interesting as I do... this was the motivation for this particular thread.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 30th July 2018 at 18:54.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Here Russell Targ talks about his work with Hal Putthof:

    Banned TEDTalk about Psychic Abilities | Russell Targ

    "This talk was originally slated as part of a TEDx event in 2013, but TED pulled their support when they learned about the subjects"

    To connect humankind with itself and the Cosmos!

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    I can see you are passionate about some of Scientology's principles, Bill, but having said that, my heart goes out to all those of whom were once affiliated with that organization, have now left and are now speaking out.

    I have viewed each and every episode of the Leah Remini expose on Scientology. I wept as I viewed the many individual stories. Just hearing the amount of effort it took for many of these people to literally escape from this group; it was gut wrenching. I kept asking myself as I watched some of this, how in the world anyone could ever become so enamored of this type of organization, given the atrocities and outright abuse its members have heaped upon one another in the name of Scientology!

    So while I do try to understand any benefit one could possibly glean from this organization, the FACT that so many former Scientologists have left this organization and are now willingly speaking out about the various abuses they have had to endure, I hope you understand, Bill, why many of us here at the forum may not necessarily understand the benefits you have described here.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 30th July 2018 at 23:50.

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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    This is a snip from a website I just found, yesterday. To me, it resonates as to the issues that many have had w/not only our government institutions, but resonates as to some of our religious institutions as it relates to manipulation, control and POWER, used to control the many who either work for these institutions, or are members:

    ..."The positive path preserves balance by maximizing freewill in the system, the other creates imbalance by diminishing the freewill of others through force, deception, and assimilation; the first advances self by also advancing others, the second advances self at the detriment of others..."

    From what so many have stated who once were Scientologists, the above (the positive aspect) is not represented within the Scientology organization as it pertains to its treatment of its members. It pains me to see so many individuals get roped into such an institution and feel as though they have no way out. They are literally kept as prisoners within an institution which is allegedly there as a protector, when nothing could be further from the truth.

    As I see it, these government/intelligence agencies work according to this same creed; firmly establish a foothold into the mindset of those on the outside, maintaining a facade of benevolence for the benefit of the populace. It's only when one finds oneself enslaved into these hierarchies, be they religious sects/organizations, or working on the inside of one of these intelligence agencies, when the truth becomes revealed.

    They are NOTHING as they seem. AT. ALL.

    And THAT is the illusion; almost NOTHING is as it seems. So yes, Zak's comment did resonate w/me. I perhaps wouldn't have worded my thoughts as such, but I understand where he's coming from. It could very well be that Mr. Puthoff does not realize what this group's efforts are really all about. He may very well believe that this group has good intentions (not at all saying it doesn't as I know very little about this group).

    My 'sense' is that Hal Puthoff is a very good man. But the possibility does exist that this may be a very good man caught up in something he's not fully cognizant of at the moment. Time will tell.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    The website I was referring to in my previous post, is here:

    https://prepareforchange.net/2016/03...n-information/
    Last edited by Bayareamom; 30th July 2018 at 22:12.

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  37. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Quote Posted by Bayareamom (here)
    my heart goes out to all those of whom were once affiliated with that organization, have now left and are now speaking out.
    Yes, mine too. There's probably very little you might say about the Church of Scientology (since it was taken over in 1982) that I'd not fully agree with.


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    Default Re: Hal Puthoff: the 1970s SRI remote viewing project, and its origins in Scientology

    Bill: I just noted the edit by you re one of my last comments. Was that cut altered and placed elsewhere?
    From Bill: Yes, I moved some posts (including half of one of yours ) to start this new thread on Frank Olson.
    Hi Bill,

    Okay. I just found the cut over on the Puthoff thread and was going to respond in kind over here, but you beat me to it. Thanks.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 31st July 2018 at 11:15.

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