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Thread: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    The following post is being written the evening of 29 July 2018, but I am back dating it three days, so that it appears first on this thread.

    The purpose of this post is to explain the origins of this thread.

    A week ago, a Q imposter named R showed up, claiming among other things that the son (JFK Jr) of assassinated US President John F Kennedy (JFK) had not died in an airplane crash in 1999, as we were told, but rather that he (JFK Jr) was still alive and well and was actually the one we know as Q.

    This bit of intrigue was briefly noted in a few posts on the Q thread, such as this post and a few other nearby posts, and then quickly forgotten.

    But the speculations regarding JFK Jr resurfaced over the last three days, resulting in an extensive, perhaps still ongoing, discussion:
    • There were a couple more comments on the Q thread, and
    • Chanie started her own thread on the topic.
    Since Chanie's new thread fit in well with the existing comments on the Q thread, I merged her thread into the Q thread.

    However the discussion of JFK Jr took on a life of its own and began to overwhelm the rest of the Q thread.

    So I am undoing my thread merge of three days ago, and moving the discussion regarding "Is JFK Jr Still Alive?" back out to this, once again, separate thread.

    ===

    The next 37 posts below (Post #2 through Post #38) are the posts I am just now moving out of the Q thread, onto this new split thread.

    See Post #5, below, for the post which was originally Chanie's opening post, on the original version of this "Is JFK Jr Still Alive?" thread.

    Any subsequent posts on this thread will of course be posts added in the future, regarding this topic, to this now once again separate thread.
    Last edited by Paul; 30th July 2018 at 00:38.
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    Default Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Sidestepping a bit re JFK Jnr faking his own death...

    This has had me really intrigued since the topic was raised and after hunting down the NZ Aircraft Register, I've just gotten off the phone with a pilot who flies a Piper Cherokee Six, forerunner to the Piper Saratoga which JFK Jnr was flying (essentially the same airplane but with different wings & retractable undercarriage). They're quite a rare beast in NZ. To cut a long story short, if three people wanted to bale out of such an aircraft (in a hypothetical "emergency" - incl the pilot), & it had a good auto pilot, it could be done. (There are a lot of other caveats in there but it is possible).

    Feel free to fire any questions and if any other fellow aviators on Avalon (we have a few!) could throw in their 10 cents worth, I'd be very interested!
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 26th July 2018 at 23:46.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    Sidestepping a bit re JFK Jnr faking his own death...

    This has had me really intrigued since the topic was raised and after hunting down the NZ Aircraft Register, I've just gotten off the phone with a pilot who flies a Piper Cherokee Six, forerunner to the Piper Saratoga which JFK Jnr was flying (essentially the same airplane but with different wings & retractable undercarriage). They're quite a rare beast in NZ. To cut a long story short, if three people wanted to bale out of such an aircraft (in a hypothetical "emergency" - incl the pilot), & it had a good auto pilot, it could be done. (There are a lot of other caveats in there but it is possible).

    Feel free to fire any questions and if any other fellow aviators on Avalon (we have a few!) could throw in their 10 cents worth, I'd be very interested!
    I'm posting a response that was e-mailed in by a longstanding Avalon supporter and guest (a non-member who reads regularly):

    ~~~
    Dear Bill:

    Feel free to share this on the forum if you think it is fitting.

    On the “Q” anon thread, KiwiElf just asked any aviators if it is possible for the Kennedy group flying in JFK Jr’s Piper Saratoga to bail out in an emergency. I think it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible given the situation the plane was in just before impact.

    I should include a little about my own experience as a pilot before launching further into my own speculation. I logged my first instruction in 1966 and have flown more or less continually since then. I got my Instrument and Commercial Multi certification in1982 and flew for several years as a “freight dogger” flying freight, mail and bank checks at night in weather that was sometimes very, very uncomfortable. Most recently I flew “flightseeing” tours for a local fixed wing operator, showing off the beautiful island where I live and enjoying the “oooh’s” and “aaah’s” which the beauty invoked. I have made my own mistakes and have lived to tell about it, so what I have to say about JFK Jr is not at all judgmental. There but for the grace of God…

    One more thing: When I first started flying freight I experienced something my Instrument instructors had warned me about (and had simulated with me during my training) except this time it was for real — spacial disorientation. Spacial disorientation occurs when you do not have an outside horizon to help you orient yourself visually, and it is very, very scary. Instructors POUND into students heads “If this happens, doubt your body and believe your instruments, even if you have to lie down on the seat to feel like you are flying upright”. When it happened to me I was solo, a relatively inexperienced IFR pilot and I had to consciously fight down panic.

    JFK Jr most likely got himself into that same situation that night in 1999. He was a relatively low time pilot, he had spread his private pilot training over several years did not log very many hours per year, which suggests he was probably not very proficient. He had just up graded into a complex, fast, six place single and did not have many transition hours under his belt. He had just recently started his Instrument training, but had only completed the first lesson, which took him three hours of instructional training to pass, tracking a navigational radio signal called VOR omnidirectional range.

    That fatal night in 1999 JFK Jr did not file a flight plan and did not call Flight Serve for a weather briefing for his flight to Martha’s Vineyard. He radioed the Essex tower for taxi and takeoff, and that was the last communication that he made.

    The weather was marginal VFR (Visual Flight Rules), it was nearly sunset, and the temperature/dew point spread was one degree and had been steadily closing, conditions which meant that moisture would soon be condensing and clouds/fog forming. In fact, his Instrument instructor called him just before the flight and suggested that he ride along because he was so concerned about the weather. JFK Jr’s response was a bone chilling “I want to do it on my own.”

    He had broken his left ankle 23 days earlier and was still in an air cast. A few days before the flight his instructor had to jump on the left rudder pedal during taxi because JFK Jr. was unable to turn the plane to the left down the taxiway.

    Why did he choose to fly that night? He must have felt something that every experienced pilot has felt at least once. It’s called “GetThereItis”. This was an important flight, there was a wedding involved and people were waiting for the Kennedy group. He had been caught in a 2 hour traffic jam on his way to the airport which must have added stress. He and his wife were going to drop his wife's sister off on Martha’s Vineyard and then fly on up to Hyannis Port. The pressure to complete the mission must have been heavy on his shoulders. I know from personal experience the “no-go” decision is extremely hard to make when you have to tell people (who were depending on you!) that you are not experienced enough to make the flight. Ask me how I know.

    The weather was bad enough that another pilot making the same trip from Essex to Martha’s Vineyard made the no-go decision. He had been caught in the same traffic jam and had arrived at Essex Airport at the same time as the Kennedy party. Inside the office where the Kennedy plane was parked, several fuelers were sitting around telling stories because no one was flying and there was nothing to do but keep the lights on. They spotted the Kennedy party at the plane, loading it up and boarding. They gathered at the window watching with interest — who was that? One man and two women, the man was using a crutch. When the pilot went to board they saw him sit on the wing and slide himself up to the door on his butt, which makes sense because the first step JFK Jr had to make to climb on board was a step located just behind the wing which requires you to mount with your left foot if you want to be facing forward.

    The route he flew was a good choice, up the coast basically keeping the ocean on his right and land on his left. No expert navigational skill needed. But visibility was getting steadily worse, and it was barely VFR by the time he turned east out over the ocean. It’s curious to me that JFK Jr did not talk to anyone during the flight. I would have been on the radio the whole way, even flying under visual flight rules, getting weather updates. If he had wanted to he could have been on Flight Following talking to ATC controllers the whole trip, on ATC’s radar, which means ATC knows your exact position and altitude. They provide you with traffic advisories and are instantly ready to assist if something goes wrong.

    What JFK Jr did is legal as long as you stay out of controlled airspace, but ATC is there to help you and many a controller has saved a pilot’s butt. JFK Jr was truly on his own. I just don’t understand. Maybe he was nervous about communicating with ATC, which is totally understandable, but in that case he should have had an experienced person sitting right next to him.

    I think it was when he reached Long Island Sound (?) that his radar track shows him turning right to head out to Martha’s Vineyard. He had just crossed in front of a commercial airliner which was doing an instrument approach. The pilot in the commercial jet was warned by ATC that there was an unidentified target crossing in front of him and that they (ATC) weren't talking to him. The pilot of the commercial jet finally spotted JFK Jr's plane and remarked to ATC “I don’t know who that is but he has no business out in this weather”.

    It is pretty obvious to me that JRK Jr was making some pretty bad decisions. He had flown over several airports by this time, and could have (should have) landed and checked the increasingly deteriorating weather situation with two feet on the ground.

    As he turned East, he was also was turning his back on coastal lights and facing an inky black ocean and inky black sky which offered no horizontal orientation. In that situation your only salvation is your instruments, but you need to be able to scan six of these in a consistent, organized, disciplined manner, not losing track of what is happening, not getting fixated on one instrument, and able to instantly interpret what you are seeing. You’d be amazed at how much continual practice this takes, how much concentration and command. Even if you are an experienced pilot flying regular flights with years under your belt, a month long vacation can result in rust, which has a nasty way of creeping into the corners.

    So here the Kennedy plane is flying into a black hole, piloted by an inexperienced pilot, mere minutes before going out of control, descending at 4000 feet per minute and pulling serious g’s. It's so typical of planes out of control that it has a name -- the infamous Graveyard Spiral. Your body is telling you that your wings are level, but your airspeed is building. This is confusing and shouldn't be happening. You pull back on the yoke to control airspeed, but what you are doing is tightening the spiral and making the situation worse. Within seconds it becomes unrecoverable.

    At what point do you realize it’s an emergency and jump? You’ve got to make your move before it’s impossible to even unbuckle your seat belt or crawl out of your seat. That would have been several minutes earlier as you turned East. You also would also have had to brought along parachutes, which the Kennedy group did not have. (I never have, except during acrobatic training when they are required).

    Even if they had realized it soon enough and jumped and parachuted down, they would be landing in a dark ocean, with no one even knowing they were in trouble.

    His death broke my heart, just like his dad’s had nearly 40 years earlier. He had so much potential. I experienced a moment of excitement when the QAnon’s started talking about the possibility that Q was actually JFK Jr. It would have been a very nice twist indeed.

    I hope this helps answer some of KiwiElf’s and others' questions.

    Thank you once again, Bill for creating and maintaining Project Avalon, and thanks to all the wonderful contributors and lurkers who haunt this place.

    Warm regards ~ [name provided]




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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Thanks for that Bill (above) - however, it's virtually "verbatim" what the media said! It's a good summary of the "official" story.

    There's nothing new in this. Period! (nor was it my point!). I'm quite familiar with most of the "story" variations (largely speculation), both from the media (who rarely get it right when it comes to aviation-related reporting), and "serious" aviation magazines such as FLYING.

    No, sorry, it didn't answer anything that I'm not already familiar with, thanks. I've read the media garbage & the "official" reports, including the NTSB vsn.


    (No offense, but please forgive me when it comes to my opinion of "official stories" these days; I think we all know what to make of the JFK, Roswell & 9-11 "official stories"?)


    "Relatively inexperienced?" Respectfully, I disagree. Kennedy's experience was more than adequate for the flight.

    Excerpt from the NTSB Report:

    "The Board used the copied logbook, records from training facilities, copies of flight instructors' logbooks, and statements from instructors and pilots to estimate the pilot's total flight experience. The pilot's estimated total flight experience, excluding simulator training, was about 310 hours, of which 55 hours were at night. The pilot's estimated experience flying without a certified flight instructor (CFI) on board was about 72 hours. The pilot's estimated flight time in the accident airplane was about 36 hours, of which 9.4 hours were at night. Approximately 3 hours of that flight time was without a CFI on board, and about 0.8 hour of that time was flown at night, which included a night landing. In the 15 months before the accident, the pilot had flown about 35 flight legs either to or from the Essex County/Teterboro, New Jersey, area and the Martha's Vineyard/Hyannis, Massachusetts, area. The pilot flew over 17 of these legs without a CFI on board, including at least 5 at night. The pilot's last known flight in the accident airplane without a CFI on board was on May 28, 1999."

    Let's put that in perspective:

    The minimums are 20 hours for a sport pilot certificate, 30 hours for a recreational pilot certificate, and 40 hours for a private pilot certificate.

    A commercial pilot certificate, requires 250 hours of flight time.

    Requirements for Instrument Rating in the United States are listed in section 61.65 of the Federal Aviation Regulation[2] are:
    50 hours of Pilot in Command cross country
    40 hours of simulated or actual instrument time
    15 hours of flight instruction towards instrument rating

    While he may not have sat the actual tests, he had more than accumulated sufficient hours for competently handling that flight.

    Has this "guest" actually flown time in a Cherokee Six or Piper Saratoga?

    As "unlikely" as it may seem (I agree with that btw), it's not impossible. That was my point.

    If the "official" radar tracks are to be believed, Kennedy's plane did follow the mainland before it headed out to sea and crashed ... more than enough time for all three occupants to bale out...

    You see, I'm not talking about the "just before" impact scenario... I'm talking before that while it was still over the coast, before it headed out to sea ...

    I did say there were caveats to the theory, & the doors of this aircraft are just one of them.

    To elaborate, the Cherokee Six is sometimes used as a skydiving plane, but ... with it's rear (left) side door removed. I directly asked the pilot I spoke to how easy it is to remove the hinge pins of this door (quite easy, as the aircraft is popular with small freight/cargo operators). We then proceeded to discuss it's removal during flight. Yes, it could be done. As it swings outward like a conventional car door, it would be almost impossible to open it fully at that speed. However, pull the two hinge pins and kick it out, no real problem.

    Here are illustrations of a Piper Saratoga & its rear side doors: NOTE: The outward swinging door must be opened before the luggage door (not that it would be necessary to open/remove the luggage door to bale out/skydive).

    (And ummm... NO,... I don't - and didn't - think for one second that JFK Jnr, (alive or dead), was "Q"...)

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    Last edited by KiwiElf; 27th July 2018 at 14:24.

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    Default Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    One of my earliest memories revolves around the death of President John Kennedy. I was riding the school bus and someone mentioned that Kennedy had been shot. Being five years old and Canadian, I didn’t know who he was, but I burst into tears because I thought it was terribly sad. I sat glued to the black-and-white TV set for the next few days and looking back, I realize how much I identified with his young children.

    Fast forward to the late ‘90’s in New York City. It was an early Sunday morning in the Village. My friends were to my left arguing over a map. I looked away to my right and suddenly saw JFK Jr sitting at an outdoor sidewalk cafe. He was by himself, reading a newspaper. His bike was propped up beside him. In my mind, he seemed such a lonely figure—that little boy I remembered. I didn’t have the heart to intrude on his privacy and after a moment, I looked away. I never mentioned it to my friends, but the news of his death felt personal somehow. I’m sure this is true for a lot of people.

    So the idea that he might be alive and the hope that goes with it is intriguing.

    I wanted to start a thread that would explore that idea. To be truthful, I don’t know how he would have been able to pull it off, but we know he had the financial resources and personal connections that might have helped him with the logistics.

    I’ve been studying photos of JFK Jr and the man at the rally. From what I can see with a magnifying glass, it looks like JFK had a tiny mole on the pinky finger of his right hand. See: First photo attached below.

    In the fuzzy picture of the man at the rally, you can see a similar mark in the same place. See: Second photo attached below.

    Also, JFK Jr. was left-handed. In another photo of the rally man, he appears to be holding his hands the way a left-handed man would—with his right hand over his left. See: Third photo attached below.

    The fact that the rally man might be left-handed and has a mole on the pinky finger of his right hand doesn’t prove anything, but it’s interesting.
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    Last edited by Chanie; 27th July 2018 at 19:16.

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)

    (No offense, but please forgive me when it comes to my opinion of "official stories" these days; I think we all know what to make of the JFK, Roswell & 9-11 "official stories"?)
    Yes, Bill, and whomever sent that explanation to Bill - Thanks! It tells a convincing and well written report of what happened the evening of JFK Jr's death.

    However, as a card carrying member of the Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy Theory Club (grin), I must share with KiwiElf a suspicion that, as seems to be the case more often than not, the true story and the public story might be worlds apart.

    Moreover, as a regular reader of Miles Mathis, the idea that a famous figure would fake his death seems quite ordinary to me. For example, Miles has proposed, in this paper, both that the father, President JFK, faked his death in Dallas in November 1963, and that the son, JFK Jr, faked his death in 1999. Miles further predicts in that paper that JFK, Jr is still alive, and that his son, JFK the third (JFK III) is approaching 20 years of age now, and will soon have a dramatic role to play on the public scene.

    For one detail that for me casts a shadow on the official story (and variants), if I intended to fake my death, I wouldn't rely on bailing out over the ocean in a fog. I might have taken off from the original airport, as described in this well written report, but I'd have found a safer and more reliable way back to the ground, perhaps sending on my boldest pilot to fly into the fog closer to Martha's Vineyard, the better to complete the faked scenario.

    ...

    On the other hand, I must grant that the speculation that JFK Jr. is still alive and might become a public participant in forthcoming revelations is just too delicious a rumor to quickly put out of my mind. Hence, if that speculation is like all the other delicious rumors I've enjoyed in my life, this rumor too will end up being fruitless.
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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Miles further predicts in that paper that JFK, Jr is still alive, and that his son, JFK the third (JFK III) is approaching 20 years of age now, and will soon have a dramatic role to play on the public scene.
    Like MJ, they've been hanging out in "The Great Forever," waiting for the right time.

    Just for something nice and light...
    Lets listen to some music.

    MJ died in 2009 yes?
    Why then is he heard singing on his sisters song 4 years later?
    This did happen, and flew right under the radar.

    Why is this important?
    The great forever.

    Not effects.
    12:06 AM - 16 Jun 2018

    https://twitter.com/____Redacted___/...36795856252929


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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)

    (No offense, but please forgive me when it comes to my opinion of "official stories" these days; I think we all know what to make of the JFK, Roswell & 9-11 "official stories"?)
    Yes, Bill, and whomever sent that explanation to Bill - Thanks! It tells a convincing and well written report of what happened the evening of JFK Jr's death.

    However, as a card carrying member of the Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy Theory Club (grin), I must share with KiwiElf a suspicion that, as seems to be the case more often than not, the true story and the public story might be worlds apart.

    Moreover, as a regular reader of Miles Mathis, the idea that a famous figure would fake his death seems quite ordinary to me. For example, Miles has proposed, in this paper, both that the father, President JFK, faked his death in Dallas in November 1963, and that the son, JFK Jr, faked his death in 1999. Miles further predicts in that paper that JFK, Jr is still alive, and that his son, JFK the third (JFK III) is approaching 20 years of age now, and will soon have a dramatic role to play on the public scene.

    For one detail that for me casts a shadow on the official story (and variants), if I intended to fake my death, I wouldn't rely on bailing out over the ocean in a fog. I might have taken off from the original airport, as described in this well written report, but I'd have found a safer and more reliable way back to the ground, perhaps sending on my boldest pilot to fly into the fog closer to Martha's Vineyard, the better to complete the faked scenario.

    ...

    On the other hand, I must grant that the speculation that JFK Jr. is still alive and might become a public participant in forthcoming revelations is just too delicious a rumor to quickly put out of my mind. Hence, if that speculation is like all the other delicious rumors I've enjoyed in my life, this rumor too will end up being fruitless.
    Here is something to consider: There may be much truth in high profile people faking their own deaths. I am really good friends and a work colleague of the original drummer from a 1970's high profile music group. His death from 'cancer' was paid for by him and highly successful for him. Now he lives a relatively quiet and private life. He went on to have a very successful career as a band director for a prominent local university. His experience in the music industry nearly killed him emotionally and physically. He found out what he could do and chose that path. It saved his life. He married and had seven children and now has three grandchildren that he can enjoy anytime he likes. So in my humble opinion, the possibility that JFK. Jr., faked his own death has merit.
    warmest,
    crosby
    Last edited by crosby; 28th July 2018 at 05:10. Reason: grammatical correction

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by Chanie (here)
    One of my earliest memories revolves around the death of President John Kennedy. I was riding the school bus and someone mentioned that Kennedy had been shot. Being five years old and Canadian, I didn’t know who he was, but I burst into tears because I thought it was terribly sad. I sat glued to the black-and-white TV set for the next few days and looking back, I realize how much I identified with his young children.
    ...
    The fact that the rally man might be left-handed and has a mole on the pinky finger of his right hand doesn’t prove anything, but it’s interesting.
    Chanie started a separate thread with this post, that I have now merged above into this thread, as it fit rather well with the discussion here.
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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)


    I’ve looked through some of the film footage from the 2017 rally in Ohio. It’s over six hours long and here’s what I’ve noted:

    2:31:49 The man who is said to be JFK Jr. arrives with the woman who has been said to be his wife Carolyn. Not too far behind them are two children—a boy in a red shirt and a girl in a blue top. They start down the same row—the way you would if you were attending an event with your parents. There is a burly guy not too far behind them.

    2:33:13 By this point, the two kids are moving to the front row—a different row from the woman.

    2:33:15. You can see the “JFK” man leave.

    At this point, I skipped forward to:

    4:05:58 The woman takes her hat off. She is sitting by an empty reserved seat.

    4:07:20 There is a good close up of the woman without her hat. She has her dark-ish hair in a bun.

    4:11:01 The big burly guy in a Trump t-shirt is talking to her.

    4:12:50 Two women try to take the empty reserved seat by the woman and get moved.

    4:14:02 One of the women comes back and tries to take the seat again. An African American man in a nice looking suit sits down and moves her away.

    4:14:38 A second man comes and sits down by her.

    4:15:34 The two men swap places. The African American man starts talking to her and then, both men are talking to her.

    4:16:36 The burly man points in her direction. He is talking to the man beside him.

    4:26:26 The men on both sides talk for a moment.

    4:28:13 On the far left of the screen, the “JFK” man enters moving right. Just before he arrives, some protestors start heckling. He sits between the burly man and the woman. He talks to the woman and seems to know her.

    4:58:49 Trump arrives. By this point, the African American man seems to have disappeared. He’s not beside the woman.

    5:07:05 Trump makes a reference to fake news and says, “Fake news. Fake, fake, fake news.” As he says this, he turns and looks at the “JFK” man. The burly man is laughing like he gets the joke.

    5:08:05 The woman is talking to the tall man beside her as Trump says, “Is there any place safer than a Trump rally?”

    5:17:56 The boy in the red shirt is clapping. He is left-handed.

    5:28:35 Trump makes a reference to the turn of the millenium. As he says this, he turns and bows at the “JFK” man. The “JFK” man bows back at him.

    5:38:47 Trump turns and looks at the “JFK” man again.

    5:58:58 The “JFK” man gets up and leaves right at the end of the speech. He leaves before Trump leaves. He also leaves the woman and kids behind.

    My impression is that whoever these people were, they were surrounded by (and being protected by) security and that Trump knew them.

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Chanie, thank you so much for pointing this information out. I just never noticed it - - I am watching it now and I do see exactly what you have stated. Excellent breakdown!!!!
    warmest,
    crosby

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by crosby (here)
    Chanie, thank you so much for pointing this information out. I just never noticed it - - I am watching it now and I do see exactly what you have stated.
    You’re welcome! Everyone has been linking the man, woman and kids together saying it was JFK Jr, Carolyn and their two kids, but they were mostly focused on the part where Trump speaks. It occurred to me that if they were indeed a family, they might arrive together. This prompted me to sit through earlier portions of the film footage and as you’ve seen, it did show them arriving together so I think the speculation is correct—that the four people are likely husband, wife and kids.

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by Chanie (here)
    ... so I think the speculation is correct—that the four people are likely husband, wife and kids.
    ... and people of some means, who can afford a serious security detail.
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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Right off I felt like the story was true - intuition, or maybe I just wanted it to be true.

    The piece that is questionable for me is the sister-in-law Lauren Bessette.

    I can see why JFK, Jr and wife would want to disappear - the press was hounding them unmercifully. He was use to it, but as I recall, she was rather shy and wasn't doing well with all the media attention. And the facts the paparazzi (allegedly )played in the death of Princess Di just 2 years earlier would still have been fresh in their minds.

    But why involve Carolyn's sister?

    I hope someone can come up with a good answer as I am not ready to let go of this story. It's just too good and would be so perfect. (and don't say to good to be true! I don't want to here it.)
    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light!

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)
    The piece that is questionable for me is the sister-in-law Lauren Bessette.

    I can see why JFK, Jr and wife would want to disappear - But why involve Carolyn's sister?
    The best explanation I’ve seen is that Carolyn’s sister Lauren had a twin.

    See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/19...9/kennedy.usa7

    In theory, Lauren would be able to pose as her sister Lisa if she wanted to make a visit home to her parents. In this case, her parents and sister would have to be in on the secret.

    If true, how many people knew? And how did they keep it a secret this long? Perhaps a serious death threat against a loved one is a powerful motivation to remain silent?

    Having watched the Ohio rally footage, I think it is interesting that the “JFK” man arrived at the last minute; that as he did a protester started heckling to the far right of the screen—which would draw the crowd’s eye away from his arrival; and that he was wedged in between a group of security people; and that he left before Trump and without his wife and kids. If it was JFK Jr. and he is the main target of the death threat, it makes sense to get him out of there before the crowd starts moving.

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    ... and people of some means, who can afford a serious security detail.
    The security people were obviously part of Trump’s team, but the interesting thing is how much interaction they had with the “Carolyn” woman—how they talked to her and shooed the other women away.

    They didn’t interact with the “JFK” man as much although at one point, I saw a tall man squat down behind him which made me wonder if he was saying something to him. Mostly, they seemed to be ignoring him—perhaps not wanting to draw attention to him?

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but if that man is JFK, Jr. then he spent the last 17 years being driven hard and put away wet as the saying goes.

    The facial features suggest to me SE European or Middle Eastern. Far cry from northern Europe background of the Kennedy's.
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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but if that man is JFK, Jr. then he spent the last 17 years being driven hard and put away wet as the saying goes.

    The facial features suggest to me SE European or Middle Eastern. Far cry from northern Europe background of the Kennedy's.
    But if you were JFK Jnr & wanted to fake your own death as part of this bigger "plan", would you risk "coming back" looking remotely as you did before? Too recognisable. Plastic Surgery.

    Let's rewind, quite a bit... (The rest of this post is mostly for you, Chanie... and anyone else who's interested! )

    For those who have been following MegAnon & "Q", we know there is a "Plan". We also know the "plan" started well before Trump even announced he was running, in fact it goes way back to before 9-11. It goes back to when JFK Jnr would have still been alive.

    What if...?

    JFK Jnr was a person of means & well connected. Is it possible that all those years ago, the people behind "the plan" - we'll call them the Whitehats; the good guys in the military & intelligence forces who are protecting & backing Trump now, decided with JFK Jnr's cooperation (might have even been his idea), to fake JFK's death in a plane accident, eventually to surface in the future to play all of this out? They just had to wait for the right timing & candidate to come along. Trump.

    Kennedy's history as a politician (and pilot) reveal some interesting pointers;

    Had he "lived", the evidence suggests he was about to expose who killed his father, JFK. It's also likely he would have pursued a career in politics and perhaps even run for President himself. (And he probably would have been assassinated, like his father before him).

    So, the "plan" was born, & changed all that. This way, with the vast resources of the Whitehats, JFK Jnr could accomplish much more. Together, they could expose & topple the entire global swamp. It would take years to accomplish. It would have to be done covertly, in the background and nothing left to chance.

    Part of that plan, was for JFK Jnr to fake his own death along with his wife & Lauren. He could then dedicate the next few years to making the "plan" work in the background, together with the Whitehats, pooling their knowledge, gathering & fitting all the pieces together.

    As technology changed over the years & with the global advent & popularity of the internet & smartphones, it was actually making their job easier.

    Now, I said there were caveats to all this right at the beginning of the topic being raised about JFK Jnr faking his death, and to pull it off, it would need some "extraordinary resources" - the resources & cooperation of the Whitehats to do it.

    Here are some more of those caveats:

    The plane crash itself isn't really a biggie to pull off. A slight change of route, all three bale out over the mainland, safely picked up by the Whitehats & spirited away with new identities, plastic surgery, a "protective custody" of sorts. The plane's autopilot locked to a specific set of waypoints along the way with radio transmissions supposedly coming from the plane but actually coming from the ground (I haven't yet been able to find any definitive radar tracks of the plane's actual course, speeds enroute etc - just the last few minutes leading up to the crash!). Remotely hack the autopilot - which we know can & could be done, even then - & dive the now empty plane at full throttle into the ocean. We have it do some carefully planned gyrations beforehand to make it "look like" Kennedy was lost & experiencing "spatial disorientation").

    Meanwhile, in the months leading up to this, the Kennedy group, with the help of Whitehats, had meticulously built a narrative for witnesses, friends, and most importantly, the fakestream media, that Kennedy was inexperienced, (despite the glaring fact he'd flown the route numerous times - was he "practising/rehearsing"?), that the plane was a "hotrod" (it wasn't), marriage problems, broken ankle (& having his instructor swerve the plane taxiing in an earlier incident lalala... you get the picture? All a plausible & believable "story". (Feign left & duck & roll to the right).

    Well, with those kind of "hypothetical helpers" (the Whitehats), how difficult would it be to fudge those radar tracks, the few radio transmissions & even the accident report itself?

    But what of the three bodies that were located with the wreckage? If they weren't the Kennedy group, who were they?

    If you're familiar with the crash report & events which unfolded after the crash, it took hours to find the plane, way longer than it should have. Easy, put some already dead & mangled virtually unidentifiable cadavers in there with divers before the unsuspecting rescue teams show up? It's been done before! Which would mean the pathologists & surviving family members etc, were "in on it" too. (We all know there's nothing new or impossible here. It was done with JFK's coverup too).

    Here's a few other little pointers and you'll need to refer to the NTSB report here:

    https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employmen...99MA178&akey=1

    Virtually none of the right hand side of the fuselage was found - very strange. The right hand front passenger seat, not found (the one next to the pilot). The two bodies of the women, still strapped to their seats were found outside the plane. The pilot, still strapped to his seat inside the plane.

    Although a small part of the roof attached to the main support of the left rear passenger door was found (see my earlier post & illustrations of the plane), there's no indication that the door itself was found. There was also mention of major fuselage compression around this area. Evidence that the door had come off - or been removed - before the plane crashed? (Without the door being latched, you have a "weak" area which is easily compressed under impact, a bit like cutting the roof off your car; the roof is an integral part of the car's overall crash resistance. Without it, the car would just fold in half at impact).

    There are a whole lot more other unusual aspects about this for those who look. It has all the makings of a first class cover up. A couple of really good videos out there, too. (If you look)!.

    Like I said, "improbable, but not impossible".
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 28th July 2018 at 23:24.

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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)

    But if you were JFK Jnr & wanted to fake your own death as part of this bigger "plan", would you risk "coming back" looking remotely as you did before? Too recognisable. Plastic Surgery.

    Let's rewind, quite a bit... (The rest of this post is mostly for you, Chanie... and anyone else who's interested! )


    What if...?

    JFK Jnr was a person of means & well connected. Is it possible that all those years ago, the people behind "the plan" - we'll call them the Whitehats; the good guys in the military & intelligence forces who are protecting & backing Trump now, decided with JFK Jnr's cooperation (might have even been his idea), to fake JFK's death in a plane accident, eventually to surface in the future to play all of this out? They just had to wait for the right timing & candidate to come along. Trump.


    OK KiwiElf, let's go with that.

    Where do you think they would have settled. Someplace in US would have been challenging, due to high profiles. Even with her darkened hair, her features are distinct, even in a small town here they would be taking a chance.

    Greece? He lived there for a while as a youngster when his mother married Onassis. Did he learn the language?


    Guatemala?
    This from wikipedia: In 1976, Kennedy and his cousin visited an earthquake disaster zone at Rabinal in Guatemala, helping with heavy building work and distributing food. The local priest said that they "ate what the people of Rabinal ate and dressed in Guatemalan clothes and slept in tents like most of the earthquake victims," adding that the two "did more for their country's image" in Guatemala "than a roomful of ambassadors" Did he become familiar w/ Spanish while there. I would think he would have gotten to know a little and have a comfort with the countryside.

    On his sixteenth birthday, Kennedy's Secret Service protection ended, and he spent the summer of 1978 working as a wrangler in Wyoming. So, he wasn't afraid of hard labor, which could explain his rough look at the Rally. He also went on kayak expedition to the Åland Archipelago, he traveled to India spending some time at the University of Delhi,and in his teens went to Africa on a pioneering course, where he rescued his group, which had gotten lost for two days without food or water, and won points for leadership.

    All of the above suggests he would be comfortable in a foreign country. OTOH, with his $$, he could buy a big ranch in Wyoming that was isolated. Although I personally think he was too social to be isolated for long.

    But this was the surprise conponent for me: ACTING
    Again from Wikipedia. he had done a bit of acting, which was one of his passions (he had appeared in many plays while at Brown). He expressed interest in acting as a career, but his mother strongly disapproved of it, as an unsuitable profession. On August 4, 1985, Kennedy made his New York acting debut in front of an invitation-only audience at the Irish Theater on Manhattan's West Side. Executive director of the Irish Arts Center, Nye Heron, said that Kennedy was "one of the best young actors I've seen in years".[18] Kennedy's director, Robin Saex, stated, "He has an earnestness that just shines through." Kennedy's largest acting role was playing a fictionalized version of himself in the season-eight episode of sitcom Murphy Brown, called "Altered States". In this episode, Kennedy visits Brown at her office, in order to promote a magazine he is publishing.

    OK, so now we have a guy who possibly was still a frustrated actor - was being hounded by the press and had a wife who wasn't handling that publicity well.

    So, he writes a script where he can act for the remainder of his life.

    If it turns out he's really dead, I have first dibs on writing a movie script.
    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light!

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    New Zealand Avalon Member KiwiElf's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)

    I've just added the very detailed NTSB Report to my post Ba-ba-ra.

    If this scenario is "sort-of" correct, (and with all the stuff "Q" & the Anons have exposed over the last few months, I'm beginning to believe ANYthing is possible), my guess is that he & wife etc would settle overseas, somewhere really out of the mainstream, while maintaining contact with the Whitehats and whoever else was necessary to the "plan". Greece could certainly be a possibility, given Jackie's later marriage to Onassis (and their many other valuable connections/resources/contacts! Heck, Onassis was shady enough! (he'd love it) LOL).

    It would sure make a great movie (and hey, you saw it here on Avalon first - I get copyright on the plot!)
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 28th July 2018 at 23:40.

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