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Thread: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

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    United States Avalon Member A Voice from the Mountains's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    My recommendations:
    1. Break up the institutions, whether "public" or "private", which carry out the agenda of the deep state.
    2. Break them into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the winds.
    3. It is the concentration of power, often covertly, that enables too few to reign tyrannically over too many.
    4. Disperse, localize, and minimize the powers that the state, and their private partners the corporations, assume over we the people.
    I don't even think we have to do that much.

    Let's forget about the corporate legal entities for a moment, because they're fictional.

    What we need to do is investigate the entire network of private individuals behind these networks for criminal activity and physically throw them all into prison. Then their companies would go belly-up on their own and we wouldn't have to enforce any more laws than we already have on the books.

    They finally got Al Capone on tax evasion. He committed an enormous amount of crime and no one disputes that, but no one could prove it, because he was too smart. So rather than pass a bunch of authoritarian measures to go after him anyway, the government simply got creative and prosecuted him for something they could prove, and then threw the book at him to ensure he died in prison.

    Granting the government broader powers to "fix" this problem is the mentality of communists, and was also what the Nazis did to try to get the same international network off their backs. I don't think that is desirable in the end, because after this one problem is cleaned up, you'll have created a new problem of a new entrenched power in government, an age-old problem that the Constitution has done a superb job of preventing thus far.

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  3. Link to Post #122
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Everyone should listen to this. This is Richard Dolan at his strongest, clearest, most passionate, and most articulate. It may be the best presentation of his I've ever heard.

    And it's by FAR the best summary on the net so far, on video or in text, about the Infowars censorship issue.
    Richard Dolan is indeed well spoken, and indeed makes an excellent defense of freedom of speech.

    However ...
    Here's my summary:
    1. 'Free speech' is one thing.
    2. Having one's front door unlocked and wide open with an invitation for anyone at all to come into your house and spray paint crude slogans all over your walls is another.
    Richard wouldn't welcome that, either.

    People can — I suppose! — write and paint and shout their slogans (ideally, though, not as ugly, disfiguring graffiti) anywhere else. But not here.

    What Richard is saying is that free and open debate is healthy and even essential. Very hard to disagree. But it's HOW that happens that counts.

    The moderators consider Avalon membership applications every day. Even a Flat Earther, maybe, who's genuinely open-minded and genuinely seeking the truth, and has NOT got a rigid opinion that they're determined to defend, may be welcome. We're educators here. (However, we're more likely to accept a Flat Earther who's 20 than one who's 60! Experience on Planet Earth really should count for something.)

    But applicants who want to rant and rave and preach, or have very fixed extreme ideas, or seem blindly uninformed while not recognizing that they are, or seem angry or unpleasant, or just seem unable to communicate intelligibly, may be politely declined.

    This is NOT a free-for-all here, where anyone at all can come in and run riot and cause chaos and upset. And no members would want it to be.

    And as a kind of university, as it were (because, again, we're educators), there are certain entrance criteria. Classes at any school wouldn't be quite the same — at all! — if anyone whatsoever were allowed to wander in, unqualified in anything, and yell abuse at the teachers, or the other students, from the back row.

    Of course not. No-one would win. But I'm quite sure that Richard, being an academic himself, doesn't advocate that either.

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  5. Link to Post #123
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Yea but, Paul, the evolving emergency has reached this point and can shed a skin like that almost without missing a beat.
    Yea, you've got a point there .
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  7. Link to Post #124
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Let's forget about the corporate legal entities for a moment, because they're fictional.
    Corporations can live on forever, can not be imprisoned, can not be hung from the gallows. Corporations (in the US) can make unlimited donations to political campaigns, individuals can not.

    Corporations (and governments, which nowadays are also incorporated) are two of the more powerful tools in the tool box of the deep state.

    I would not dismiss them so lightly.
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  9. Link to Post #125
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Of course not. No-one would win. But I'm quite sure that Richard, being an academic himself, doesn't advocate that either.
    Right now, half the people whose opinions I know well (my liberal relatives in California) are probably saying "good riddance" to Alex Jones.

    The other half (here on this forum) are mostly saying "good riddance" to Facebook, et al.

    The division is strong between those who despise Alex Jones and what they think he stands for, and those who despise violators of our free speech rights.

    That's why, in my estimation, that Alex Jones was chosen for this role ... he's divisive.

    ===

    Let us not lose sight of the evil bastards behind the curtain who are smashing this divisive choice into our face.

    When a mad man forces you to choose, at gun point, which of your children to sacrifice ... you get creative looking for "a third way."

    ===

    I would encourage readers to consider answering my series of questions in my above post. Where they lead seems inescapable to me.
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  11. Link to Post #126
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    That's why, in my estimation, that Alex Jones was chosen for this role ... he's divisive.
    ANYONE who challenges the status quo, or the abuse of power and vested interests, is divisive. That's almost by definition.

    Campaigners for the abolition of slavery were divisive. The suffragettes were divisive. Anti-apartheid campaigners were divisive. Death penalty abolitionists are divisive. Anti-abortionists are divisive. Even some vegans are divisive.

    Jesus Christ was divisive.

    But, yes, maybe he was chosen for his role, too.


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  13. Link to Post #127
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    ===

    Let us not lose sight of the evil bastards behind the curtain who are smashing this divisive choice into our face.

    When a mad man forces you to choose, at gun point, which of your children to sacrifice ... you get creative looking for "a third way."

    ===

    I would encourage readers to consider answering my series of questions in my above post. Where they lead seems inescapable to me.
    In particular, I am concerned that the stage is being set to create something like the GDPR in the US ... Federal control of the "fairness" of the Internet.

    That concerns me more than whether Alex Jones has a Youtube or Facebook account.

    By such means as the GDPR, the Internet becomes controlled ... not the only means, but a key means.

    Neither PrisonPlanet nor ProjectAvalon would survive a fully implemented GDPR in the USA.

    ===

    We already have a situation where I find myself cheering on the NSA "full spectrum surveillance", because they surveilled my political enemies, the Clintonistas and such.

    ... before I remind myself that allowing any such massively powerful oligarchy of institutions such pervasive surveillance is a big step toward Orwell's 1984.

    ===

    Eventually. as in Russia in the 1990's, the people will come to understand that these large organizations, corporate and political, are best ignored where possible, and tolerated as need be, but not relevant to their daily life and concerns in any desirable way. As I am told they said in the declining Soviet Union (in Russian no doubt, not in English), "they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work."

    ===

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    That's why, in my estimation, that Alex Jones was chosen for this role ... he's divisive.
    ANYONE who challenges the status quo, or the abuse of power and vested interests, is divisive. That's almost by definition.
    Joseph Farrell, Richard Dolan, Alex Jones, and yourself Bill Ryan, as well as myself, challenge the status quo.

    One of those five people is substantially more divisive than the others, meaning one of those five people raises stronger emotional reactions, in more (lots more) people than the others.
    Last edited by Paul; 9th August 2018 at 04:55.
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  15. Link to Post #128
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Let's forget about the corporate legal entities for a moment, because they're fictional.
    Corporations can live on forever, can not be imprisoned, can not be hung from the gallows. Corporations (in the US) can make unlimited donations to political campaigns, individuals can not.

    Corporations (and governments, which nowadays are also incorporated) are two of the more powerful tools in the tool box of the deep state.

    I would not dismiss them so lightly.
    But what is the physical substance of a corporation?

    It's just a group of people.

    Arrest the entire corrupt network of people and then what, is the corporation going to automatically corrupt any good people who are left, who try to salvage it? Maybe they can be salvaged and maybe they can't be, depending on how corrupt their business models are. But corporations are just hierarchies of people.

    What are they going to shed their skin into? Another hierarchy of people, this time who aren't a bunch of psychopaths? It might not be so bad.

    You would have to believe that a corporate hierarchy is evil in and of itself.

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    But what is the physical substance of a corporation?
    ...
    You would have to believe that a corporate hierarchy is evil in and of itself.
    The laws, courts, police, banks, legal and financial records, governments, and armies provide some of the "muscle", the physical reality, that instantiates major corporations.

    Some corporations in the US are over 200 years old, including the New York Stock Exchange, Colgate, Citigroup, Dupont and Remington. They've gone through many generations of human people. Other corporations are younger in their current form, but have a long history of mergers.

    Corporations are a major tool of the powerful for managing the people, resources and activity on this planet.
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    The laws, courts, police, banks, legal and financial records, governments, and armies provide some of the "muscle", the physical reality, that instantiates major corporations.
    I'm not sure how you're figuring this. First of all, we have to get rid of all of the corruption, the entire network, including those in political and judicial positions. All of this is ongoing. I think we're on the same page about this.

    But once all of that is cleaned up, how are all of those things going to be still attached to the corporate structure? Once the entire corrupt networks are taken down and things restored to legal order, Twitter, for example, shouldn't have any leverage over any military, or judge, or politician. Right?

    Quote Corporations are a major tool of the powerful for managing the people, resources and activity on this planet.
    You could say the same thing about government itself, or militaries, or any network of people with power. The solution I'm proposing is to arrest all of the criminals.

    Then what's going to go wrong next? If we find more criminals, arrest them too. The process goes on.

    And look: no additional laws are passed, no freedoms curtailed. If anything we can start repealing laws and regulations.

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  21. Link to Post #131
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    You could say the same thing about government itself, or militaries, or any network of people with power. The solution I'm proposing is to arrest all of the criminals.
    To a significant degree, the key controllers of the major social media (or other) large corporations are not committing prosecutable crimes.

    A key benefit of Corporations, to the wealthy and powerful, is to insulate them, as individuals, from legal liability. Sometimes their minions, various executive officers of the corporation, get hung out to dry, but usually even then, not to a great degree.

    Even sending Jamie Dimon and all his direct reports to prison would not stop JPMorgan Chase, and that's not going to happen anyway.

    The "law" is not an impediment to powerful corporations; the "law" is one of their tools, to keep the little people, and their little businesses and governments, in line.

    The lawyers of the rich and powerful, while on the payroll of large corporations, write our laws to serve their purposes. "Our" representatives rubber stamp those laws, often unread, or if a young legislator doesn't play ball, they lose their first re-election campaign.
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    In some good part, Brandon Smith spells out what I am trying to say here, and I owe some of my views to him.

    Listen to the following video, say the four minutes between about the 10:50 and 15:00 marks, for a good, clear, explanation of what I'm saying.

    In these four minutes, Brandon observes that Youtube, Facebook, and similar are essentially monopolies. But he observes that if we use legal means (lawsuits or legislation) to prohibit Youtube or Facebook from being able to throw people off their website, for whatever arbitrary reason they want, then we "open the door" to have those same rules applied to smaller websites, such as Brandon's own website.

    Brandon does favor breaking up what are essentially government supported monopolies, such as Facebook (DARPA funded) or Google/Youtube (CIA supported).
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    You could say the same thing about government itself, or militaries, or any network of people with power. The solution I'm proposing is to arrest all of the criminals.
    To a significant degree, the key controllers of the major social media (or other) large corporations are not committing prosecutable crimes.
    Neither was Al Capone, that's why I used him as an example.

    People suspected Al Capone of plenty of crimes, and we take it for granted now, but the courts couldn't prove anything about him either. So they went with tax evasion.

    In reality I think we both know that both Capone and these modern corporate executives are up to their eyeballs in illegal activity. Facebook has been selling private user data of Americans to China. Twitter has been involved in political censorship. Google, Apple, and other companies have been acting as a de facto private intelligence services for any nation or other entity who is willing to pay the price for their services.

    The situation should be even easier today because the NSA is watching and listening to nearly everything that happens on the surface of the Earth.

    I also think that the safety provided by corporate law is largely illusory. The fact is no one had the guts to go after them before, or else they were compromised or directly involved in the same activity. Times are changing rapidly.

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    @Paul,

    No to any deep state concentration of power.
    Yes to individual forums/sites/platforms having standards to abide by.

    If the deep state is overreaching its powers to politicize a monopolized platform to create devisiveness and promote one-sided views, then what's left is the choice to participate or not.

    Too many big corporations have been allowed to monopolize and choke the smaller businesses like an overgrowth of weeds. It's time to tend the garden!

    MM
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ... corporate ...
    I choose not to continue with this detour from the main topic of this thread.
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)
    No to any deep state concentration of power.
    Yes to individual forums/sites/platforms having standards to abide by.

    If the deep state is overreaching its powers to politicize a monopolized platform to create devisiveness and promote one-sided views, then what's left is the choice to participate or not.

    Too many big corporations have been allowed to monopolize and choke the smaller businesses like an overgrowth of weeds. It's time to tend the garden!
    Agreed.

    Support smaller and independent websites, and other such businesses and endeavors.

    Avoid getting too dependent on any big anything ... especially the big ones that seem to be colluding against us.

    ===

    And, in particular, in the current circumstances, I expect that I will oppose any legislation that comes before Congress to "fix" the Internet or the social media websites. Currently the propaganda efforts have those on the left favoring legislation that would "stop Russian election meddling", and those on the right favoring legislation that would stop "banning conservative websites."

    I have absolutely zero trust that any legislation on these hot topics would actually be written to accomplish either of these ends. We'll be sold whatever we want to hear, so that it passes. We'll have to pass the bill to see what is in it (as Nancy Pelosi said so famously of the Obamacare medical act.) In the current highly charged environment, any such legislation, like the "Patriot Act" after 9/11, will by design further erode our liberty, entrench the powerful, and bring the Internet under globalist control.
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  33. Link to Post #137
    United States Avalon Member Michelle Marie's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)
    No to any deep state concentration of power.
    Yes to individual forums/sites/platforms having standards to abide by.

    If the deep state is overreaching its powers to politicize a monopolized platform to create devisiveness and promote one-sided views, then what's left is the choice to participate or not.

    Too many big corporations have been allowed to monopolize and choke the smaller businesses like an overgrowth of weeds. It's time to tend the garden!
    Agreed.

    Support smaller and independent websites, and other such businesses and endeavors.

    Avoid getting too dependent on any big anything ... especially the big ones that seem to be colluding against us.

    ===

    And, in particular, in the current circumstances, I expect that I will oppose any legislation that comes before Congress to "fix" the Internet or the social media websites. Currently the propaganda efforts have those on the left favoring legislation that would "stop Russian election meddling", and those on the right favoring legislation that would stop "banning conservative websites."

    I have absolutely zero trust that any legislation on these hot topics would actually be written to accomplish either of these ends. We'll be sold whatever we want to hear, so that it passes. We'll have to pass the bill to see what is in it (as Nancy Pelosi said so famously of the Obamacare medical act.) In the current highly charged environment, any such legislation, like the "Patriot Act" after 9/11, will by design further erode our liberty, entrench the powerful, and bring the Internet under globalist control.
    Oh, that "stop Russian meddling" excuse is already tired, old, and transparent.

    There has been a tidal wave of legislation like the Patriot Act that is completely subversive and it is becoming so apparent that it is time to turn the tides. It's just plain wrong, and it needs to be reversed. Although the current focus is on the free speech on the Internet, it is all across the board, right down into our state and local governments and spanning all institutions.

    Btw, I was inspired by this thread to write to my State Representative. I'm using my voice as I mentioned that I would. I sent him a link to that article by Paul Craig Roberts.

    MM
    Last edited by Michelle Marie; 9th August 2018 at 08:33.
    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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  35. Link to Post #138
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    That's why, in my estimation, that Alex Jones was chosen for this role ... he's divisive.
    ANYONE who challenges the status quo, or the abuse of power and vested interests, is divisive. That's almost by definition.

    Campaigners for the abolition of slavery were divisive. The suffragettes were divisive. Anti-apartheid campaigners were divisive. Death penalty abolitionists are divisive. Anti-abortionists are divisive. Even some vegans are divisive.

    Jesus Christ was divisive.

    But, yes, maybe he was chosen for his role, too.

    Joseph Farrell, Richard Dolan, Alex Jones, and yourself Bill Ryan, as well as myself, challenge the status quo.

    One of those five people is substantially more divisive than the others, meaning one of those five people raises stronger emotional reactions, in more (lots more) people than the others.
    Well, let's go on!

    Major vested interests tried to silence all the following. In many cases they succeeded, at least for a while.

    It's a LONG list. We're seeing the same thing here.
    • Martin Luther King. Gandhi. Nelson Mandela. JFK.
    • Copernicus. Galileo.
    • George Washington.
    • John Lennon.
    • Obi-Wan Kenobi. Luke Skywalker. Princess Leia. Han Solo.
    If someone speaks out passionately and articulately, gathering a following that's considered threatening by the status quo, it doesn't mean anyone's paying them.

    Maybe they're just doing the right thing.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 9th August 2018 at 11:21.

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  37. Link to Post #139
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Alex Jones is a Libertarian and a patriot. He also has a big mouth and some rather far out opinions. But as Dolan says, we want counter opinions out there because that is what preserves my right to my opinion.

    "I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
    Why Not?

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    Avalon Member Akasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Wow! Seven pages in and not one person has voiced the possibility that this is all in the name of restoring his dwindling credibility courtesy of temporary martyrdom. More and more of his once loyal followers have been questioning his loyalties ever since he cemented his outspoken, pro-Israeli stance not long ago. What greater way to counter such sentiment by repainting him as a rebel rather than the lapdog he actually is.
    Last edited by Akasha; 9th August 2018 at 12:53.
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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