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Thread: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)


    Well, if they push the lie that Sandy Hook was a hoax, with no murders and only actors being involved, then yes, indeed, I strongly approve.

    B.

    Fellow Aspirant, is there somewhere I can read what you know about and understand. Something that tells me that you've actually studied a subject and have a full grasp of it.


    I don't know, it might be that your English is not your first language, but your posts don't inform me about anything. They are more like when I accidentally walk into a room where there is a TV sucking my soul out through my eye sockets.
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    If I ever post hate speech in this forum, then I would expect to be banned.
    But Brian, what's hate speech?

    Please define it precisely. Your post that I quoted implies that you think you know exactly what it is.

    (Maybe others can try to do the same. But do note that it has NO formal legal definition.)

    This is central and important to this entire thread.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 10th August 2018 at 02:34.

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Maybe a 'digital bill of rights' is the correct way to go; it's the only way to counteract secret agendas, corrupt practices, and 'outside' interference. Those dark tentacles must be cut! The two most important things such a bill should contain, in my view, are neutrality and transparency. These companies should have the right to control their platforms in any way they choose of course, but never the content.

    This bill should have another tier for all the non-corporate non-profitmaking platforms, like Avalon and millions of others: a guarantee, to retain the right to complete private control. PA doesn't qualify as social media, and only occupies a tiny subscribership by comparison. Internet niches like ours should be protected, and allowed to flourish by themselves.
    It would be interesting to see how the details could be worked out on an Internet Bill of Rights. Notice that the US is trying to regain control of ICANN since Obama gave it away to international globalists.

    I'm not sure that the distinction should be based on whether or not a website makes profit. Here's an alternative way to do it: allow for private platforms to moderate their own content however they see fit, but prevent ISPs and other basic utility providers from seeking to regulate content. That way anyone can be guaranteed the right to open their own platform based on whatever style of content they would like, and no ISP or server host would be able to object to the content or threaten to take it down simply because they don't like it.

    And if Facebook and Twitter have big enough monopolies, they could also be considered as basic infrastructure providing a service, and forced to allow free speech.

    That way, Project Avalon would still be free to moderate its content, but the company who owns the servers would not be allowed to interfere with it, nor would any other basic Internet service (DNS server, etc.). So anyone could have their own website and run it how they please, with the companies providing infrastructure for it (equivalent to the town square in which a private shop is set up) not being allowed to discriminate.

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    My hope is that it's everybody online who makes hate filled claims about parents whose children have been murdered, saying that the grieving parents are being "actors" involved in a hoax.

    B.
    JFK's mom was still alive when he was assassinated. Should no one have questioned his assassination either, to avoid hurting his mom's feelings?

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    I think it's hopeless to believe that you're going to get the leviathan to play nice. We need to build "our" own platforms if possible. I don't know enough about this subject to know if that's even possible. Maybe someone (Paul?) can opine on the feasibility of a network as outlined here https://www.masternewmedia.org/the-a...etsukuku-idea/

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    If I ever post hate speech in this forum, then I would expect to be banned.
    But Brian, what's hate speech?

    Please define it precisely. Your post that I quoted implies that you think you know exactly what it is.

    (Maybe others can try to do the same. But do note that it has NO formal legal definition.)

    This is central and important to this entire thread.
    Microsoft threatened to drop hosting for Gab over hate speech posts
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/9/17...ban-deplatform

    i agreed, now they using Hate Speech as reason to banned or delete...

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    If I ever post hate speech in this forum, then I would expect to be banned.
    But Brian, what's hate speech?

    Please define it precisely. Your post that I quoted implies that you think you know exactly what it is.

    (Maybe others can try to do the same. But do note that it has NO formal legal definition.)

    This is central and important to this entire thread.
    This is critical!!!!

    How is this defined and who does the defining? it's almost a cloak and a smokescreen to put ever more increasingly receding perimeters on human thought and expression. The very basis of being alive and experiencing as a human...

    EVERYTIME hate speech is brought up as a subject, this question should be asked alongside it. It never seems to be something that's thought about in depth and detail by those who are proponents of it to begin with even though it is fundamentally the most important aspect of the idea of "hate speech".
    ''Truth can only be reconciled when an honest man becomes''


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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Surprisingly, even the New York Times is advising against "hate speech" laws.

    Why? Because the Black Panthers used to use hate speech against whites, and we can't outlaw that! rofl... These people.

    Quote If We Silence Hate Speech, Will We Silence Resistance?

    “Hate” is a dangerously elastic label. And it has long been used to demonize unpopular expression, particularly among people of color.

    Apple, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify and most other major internet distributors took a bold step this week when they all but banned content from Infowars, a website run by the right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. The tech companies cited their policies against hate speech for their decision, rather than the trafficking in fake news by Infowars.

    It’s tempting to applaud this move, but we should be wary. While Mr. Jones’s rhetoric is certainly repugnant, mounting pressure from the political left to censor hateful speech may have unintended consequences, especially for people of color.

    That’s because “hate” is a dangerously elastic label, one that has long been used in America to demonize unpopular expression. If we become overzealous in our efforts to limit so-called hate speech, we run the risk of setting a trap for the very people we’re trying to defend.

    History offers countless examples. Consider black nationalists of the 1960s and 1970s. Impatient with the lack of progress for African-Americans after the civil rights movement, leaders like Malcolm X routinely inveighed against white America using inflammatory rhetoric. He had no trouble expressing animosity toward the “white devil,” and he contemplated violent resistance.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/o...esistance.html

    So there you have it. Even the JYT, I mean NYT, doesn't want "hate speech" laws in the US, because then how could we complain about the white devil?

    Really activates the almonds, as they say.

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Retief (here)
    I think it's hopeless to believe that you're going to get the leviathan to play nice. We need to build "our" own platforms if possible. I don't know enough about this subject to know if that's even possible. Maybe someone (Paul?) can opine on the feasibility of a network as outlined here https://www.masternewmedia.org/the-a...etsukuku-idea/
    "Q" is onto that... "they" are creating their own platform which will circumvent Google... - refer to the "Q" thread a few weeks back)

    EDIT: See here, post 5807 (from "Q" on Twitter, July 14);

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1237822

    "We have almost reached our goal to build the new Q Website/social network that will NOT be indexed and controlled by Google."
    Last edited by Paul; 10th August 2018 at 08:39. Reason: more precise link to "new Q Website" post

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Retief (here)
    Maybe someone (Paul?) can opine on the feasibility of a network as outlined here https://www.masternewmedia.org/the-a...etsukuku-idea/
    Something like Netsukuku is based on local Wi-Fi, and useful in an urban environment, if say a number of people want to stay in contact even if Internet service is being suppressed for a short period of time, such as during a protest or rebellion.

    Long term connectivity between people all over the world can really only work over the underlying Internet infrastructure, in our present world. This means using the basic IP protocol, over the various interconnected phone, cable, fiber, wi-fi, microwave, satellite and cell phone networks. That basic, underlying, infrastructure works almost all the time, for almost everyone who is not way out in the boondocks.

    The most valuable thing that we, or anyone in similar circumstances, can do at present is to not depend on the big intelligence agency connected websites, services or search engines, such as run by Google, Gmail, Youtube, Amazon, Facebook, Netflix, Twitter, Skype, Apple, or Microsoft.

    Notice that Alex Jones Infowars.com website is still up and working well for him.

    So is ProjectAvalon.net up and working well for us.

    That is because both Infowars.com and ProjectAvalon.net are their own websites, depending only on the widely available underlying infrastructure of the Internet and on web hosting companies that have little motive to censure the content of their customers websites.

    Except for the big cloud providers Google, Amazon, and Microsoft, most web hosting companies, such as those used by Infowars and ProjectAvalon, operate more as "utilities" ... providing a basic service, with minimal interest in what content is provided over that service, so long as it does not expose them to lawsuits or criminal prosecution.

    If Singlehop, the web hosting company that we (Project Avalon) us did start taking a dislike to our content, then we could (with some inconvenience, some loss of my sleep, and some downtime) move to another web hosting company.
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    If I ever post hate speech in this forum, then I would expect to be banned.
    But Brian, what's hate speech?

    Please define it precisely. Your post that I quoted implies that you think you know exactly what it is.

    (Maybe others can try to do the same. But do note that it has NO formal legal definition.)

    This is central and important to this entire thread.
    Absolutely - there is no definition for it.

    Jon Rappoport in his recent blog post "The War aginst Alex Jones: Part 3" - and I'll be posting both parts 2 and 3 later on today and may even consolidate all three in one post - raises these questions:
    When several big-tech companies remove a person from their platforms in a 12-hour period, which is what happened to Alex Jones, you need to ask:

    • Where are the specific violations Jones is charged with?
    • Where is the bill of particulars against him?
    • Where is the “hate speech” he is accused of spewing to his audience?
    What definition (if any) of hate speech is being used as a measuring stick?

    Asking those questions, you come up very short on answers.
    Bingo.

    These are extremely pertinent points and very worthy of consideration here.

    And slicing through the atrophied cheesecake that is the nonsense of "censorship" ---in other words, censorship seeming to embody slamming the stable door so very long after the steeds have fled--- here's a quote from Christopher Hitchens cited in Jon's Part 2 submission:

    “To whom do you award the right to decide which speech is harmful, or who is the harmful speaker? Or to determine in advance what are the harmful consequences going to be that we know enough about in advance to prevent? To whom would you give this job? To whom are you going to award the task of being the censor?...To whom you would delegate the task of deciding for you what you could read? To whom you would give the job of deciding for you – relieve you of the responsibility of hearing what you might have to hear? Do you know anyone? Hands up. Do you know anyone to whom you'd give this job? Does anyone have a nominee?”
    (Christopher Hitchens, 2006)


    Well, to whom indeed.

    The answer?

    Lies within: YOU, would be my suggestion.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict.../hate%20speech

    Out of curiousity, I looked this up on the internet though I have little faith in many things I find there, present company excluded and found the reasons below the "definition" that people looked this term up, more enlightening than the meaning as presented.

    The first reply below the definition was from someone who looked it up because Alex Jones was banned.
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    If I ever post hate speech in this forum, then I would expect to be banned.
    B.
    It seems to me that the Newspeak term "hate speech" has been come to basically mean "an opinion fiercely contrary", eg the rhetoric of Alex Jones. But by this logic, is not one's triggered rebuke against Alex Jones also...hate speech?

    What is this, some warped, latter day version of the Tower of Babel?

    Hate speech is literally rewriting human language, and in turn rewiring the brain. It's goal is to stifle freedom of thought, will, and action. Exactly as Orwell wrote. It began with political correctness.

    If we go down this road, soon no one will even have an opinion. In a generation or two (or maybe much sooner) the very will to express it would have been bred out of them.

    They don't want thinkers, they want doers. Robots that obey.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict.../hate%20speech

    Out of curiousity, I looked this up on the internet though I have little faith in many things I find there, present company excluded and found the reasons below the "definition" that people looked this term up, more enlightening than the meaning as presented.

    The first reply below the definition was from someone who looked it up because Alex Jones was banned.
    Yes, interesting Valerie.

    From the UK CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) as it relates to 'Hate Crime' - note that there is nothing specific to "hate speech" per sé, just a cursory mention of verbal abuse.

    'There is no legal definition of hostility so we use the everyday understanding of the word which includes ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike.'


    and:

    'These aspects of a person's identity are known as 'protected characteristics'. A hate crime can include verbal abuse, intimidation, threats, harassment, assault and bullying, as well as damage to property. The perpetrator can also be a friend, carer or acquaintance who exploits their relationship with the victim for financial gain or some other criminal purpose.'


    From US, specifically uslegal.com ---I do not know if this is a particularly reliable source in truth --- the following:

    Hate Speech Law and Legal Definition

    'Hate speech is a communication that carries no meaning other than the expression of hatred for some group, especially in circumstances in which the communication is likely to provoke violence. It is an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like. Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups and other discrete minorities or to women.'


    To wit: what to make of the recent incitement to violence at the behest of Maxine Waters then?
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    ...

    "Hate Speech":...

    ... but he didn't say no-nothing...

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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    It seems to me that the Newspeak term "hate speech" has been come to basically mean "an opinion fiercely contrary", eg the rhetoric of Alex Jones. But by this logic, is not one's triggered rebuke against Alex Jones also...hate speech?

    What is this, some warped, latter day version of the Tower of Babel?

    Hate speech is literally rewriting human language, and in turn rewiring the brain. It's goal is to stifle freedom of thought, will, and action. Exactly as Orwell wrote. It began with political correctness.
    Yes - "political correctness", by a different name.

    The problem I see with labeling someone else's speech as politically incorrect, racist, sexist, anti-Semitic, hateful, ... is that there is an assumed remedy in the overly emotional and antagonistic manner of the labeling.

    It is assumed that I can shut down your speech because I have labeled it thus, or that a public institution can shut down such speech because it is labeled as something offensive to some class of listeners.

    ===

    Imagine some gruff old man saying: "Yeah, I think that purple polka-dotted people are ugly. You got a problem with that?" (the implication in the tone of his voice being that he really doesn't care whether or not you have a problem with his opinion of purple polka-dotted people.) If you're a purple polka-dotted young man having a clandestine affair with his daughter, you're probably going to have to elope with her, because you sure aren't getting her father's blessing to marry her.

    So far, nothing unusual or of great concern to society going on there that I see. Such prejudices have been going on for eons, in various colors, stripes and dots.

    But when the "architects of society" then leverage such labels to riots, rebellions, and wars, to divide people against each other, and to punish large groups of people because one of their people (perhaps an actor in "gruff old man costume", planted in their midst) uttered some insult of purple polka-dotted people ... then I see something of greater concern.

    For when that happens, these "architects of society" are leveraging what is a built-in capacity that most living creatures have to distinguish friend from foe, us versus them, family versus outsider, neighbor versus foreigner. This capacity is leveraged, without our consent and without our best interests in mind, to shape our communities, institutions, cultures, and such.

    ===

    I honor someone else's right to think I'm ugly, or that my speech is crude, or that my opinions are politically or otherwise incorrect.

    I honor the right of others to not consent to my marrying their daughter, to not invite me into their living room, and to join with their fellow beings in keeping me from their church or private club, or web forum.

    But, just as someone else's right to swing their fist ends at my nose, similarly their right to be repulsed by my appearance, speech or opinions ends at my front door.

    Similarly, groups, communities, teams, villages, nations, businesses, web forums, and sundry other organizations get to set "community standards" ... what will be welcome, what will be tolerated, what will be discouraged, what will be rejected, and what will be punished.

    But ... "architects of society" don't get to use nefarious and covert means, at times leveraging our built-in capacity to distinguish and categorize others, in order to radically alter a community's standards, for their nefarious and covert purposes. When we notice that happening, we have a right, sometimes even a duty, to object, resist and oppose.
    Last edited by Paul; 10th August 2018 at 22:32.
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  33. Link to Post #177
    United States Administrator Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ...

    "Hate Speech":...

    ... but he didn't say no-nothing...
    I suppose that Hervé refers to this incident: Nicolas Anelka faces sanction for 'disgusting' gesture
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  35. Link to Post #178
    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Corbett talks about what this whole situation is probably REALLY about (legislation that will in effect make the monopolies in social media even bigger).

    Quote Don't be an idiot! The government is NOT going to be the neutral arbiters of the internet and the big tech companies are NOT monopolies unless YOU forfeit your responsibility and use their controlled platforms. The answers to the social media crackdown are already here and it is your choice whether the alternatives that already exist thrive or die. It's up to you. Choose wisely.
    There was a 1: 400,000,000,000,000 chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?

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  37. Link to Post #179
    UK Avalon Member Star Mariner's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ...

    "Hate Speech":...

    ... but he didn't say no-nothing...
    I suppose that Hervé refers to this incident: Nicolas Anelka faces sanction for 'disgusting' gesture
    I remember that, only because of the media storm that followed. That's what the media does, take a spark and make a wild fire. Solely to incite public outrage. Before the outrage flared, the public emotion likely exceeded little more than confusion, distaste, a bit of ridicule. But the media inform us that we must be outraged by this. It is thought-engineering and no more.

    Another example of this: Boris Johnson and the Burka scandal. Johnson often plays the idiot, but I guarantee he is not an idiot. To say what he said, jeopardising his career, is pure idiocy. So why did he say it? A tin-foil hat possibility: he was obeying orders like any good puppet. The reason? To set a precedent in a public space.

    • Introduce a false premise
      that muslim veils are compatible with western culture
    • Let media fan the flames
      shame anyone who disagrees
    • Seed the narrative
      portray muslim women as victims of prejudice
    • Trigger an emotional response
      applaud female empowerment, and the right to wear the veil
    • Make an example
      Johnson goes down as the fall guy
    • Set over all precedent
      from hereon anything anti-burka is hate speech
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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  39. Link to Post #180
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars

    Venezuelanalysis: Official Statement on Facebook’s Removal of Our Page


    The Saker August 10, 2018

    On Thursday morning our Facebook page was arbitrarily “unpublished” by Facebook with no warning or explanation, apart from a standard message informing us that we had allegedly violated the company’s terms and conditions.

    The timing of such a move is concerning for several reasons.

    Firstly, there is the international context, in which Facebook appears to be targeting independent or leftwing sites in the wake of Russiagate.

    However, in terms of our own coverage, in the days leading up to our removal, we had published important pieces which challenge the corporate mainstream media narrative on Venezuela. Specifically, we published an article giving details on the assassination attempt against Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, as well as a very popular analysis criticising the mainstream media’s coverage of the attack.

    In addition, Venezuelanalysis has also been covering the growing international campaign to End US and Canadian Sanctions against Venezuela which are unilateral, coercive economic measures that are illegal under the Organization of American States as well as United Nations charters. The campaign recently released a Call to Action for individual and organizational sign-ons condemning this act of economic strangulation, and has organised International Days of Action on August 14th 2018 to mark the one year anniversary when the Trump administration heightened economic sanctions and referenced military intervention as a possibility in Venezuela.

    Venezuelanalysis.com is the only independent English language website covering news and analysis on Venezuela from a progressive perspective, and which platforms leftist grassroots voices from within Venezuela. It is run by committed journalists, authors and academics, & praised by renowned journalists and intellectuals such as Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, Marta Harnecker, Oliver Stone, and so on.

    We cannot help but feel that the removal of our page is related to an attempt to stifle the alternative and progressive perspectives that we feature on Venezuela.

    Though our page was suddenly reinstated on Thursday evening, following our official appeal, as well as people expressing their support for us on Twitter, media interviews and an article on the issue in Sputnik International, Facebook has still not responded with any explanation for what happened, nor to inform us which terms and conditions we allegedly violated. The whole thing is extremely mysterious, to say the least.

    The VA Collective
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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