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Thread: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Passenger plane stolen from Sea-Tac. My question to those with commercial aviation knowledge, what were the options on bringing down the airliner to avoid loss of life in such a populated area?

    1) shoot down
    2) jam electronics or remote take over? (guessing the plane was not capable of being taken over remotely but maybe?)
    3) other

    I take my shoes off at the airport, cannot take much liquid carry-on, turn off electronics before flight, body scans etc etc. And yet this happens.

    Bombardier Dash 8/ Q400





    Conversation with Tower (interesting)



    Ref
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    The pilot had to have a lot of experience to start the engines, get it in the air and land that dual engine turbo prop. I am just a licensed private pilot, Single Engine Land. I could not do it without significant training in that specific aircraft.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 11th August 2018 at 23:12.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    The pilot had to have a lot of experience to start the engines, get it in the air and land that dual engine turbo prop. I am just a licensed private pilot, Single Engine Land. I could not do it without significant training in that specific aircraft.
    Ditto!

    Just added some similar sentiments in answer to Star Mariner on the "Q" thread, Ron. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - you have WAYYY more experience than me!)

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...06#post1241306
    -------------------------------------------
    I agree Star Mariner (way beyond fishy); one doesn't just "turn the key" and start a turbo prop airplane like a car! It's quite a procedure! (despite the BS we're hearing in the media - first time I've heard of a turbine aircraft having "ignition keys"!) (Most small single-engined piston airplanes DO have an "ignition key" similar to a car starter, but there are a lot of other levers & buttons you have to operate before that!) In [most] twins & turbine aircraft, all you need is access to the cabin, but you still have to know HOW to start them - no "keys" necessary, other than to unlock the door)!

    (He's a mechanic but has no idea of the fuel flow or that it's measured in pounds, But... he can do loops & barrel rolls??).

    Not an easy thing to do with an airliner by a non-pilot. Even if the "video games" he refers to included Flight Simulator, I seriously doubt he could have done this; FSim ain't the same as a real airplane! Whoever is flying that plane is showing some real "air show" flying skills. (refer to other videos)

    Was said "pilot/thief" even on the plane?

    Someone should have noticed straight away that it was an unauthorised start up; (that in itself takes a few minutes), it could have easily been blocked from taxiing - let alone taking off - by a car, truck or other vehicle.

    I don't buy it.
    --------------------------------------------
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 11th August 2018 at 23:36.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)

    I don't buy it.
    --------------------------------------------
    That is the sense I get. Seems more of an extraordinary event then the media is portraying it as. Realizing I am not connected to the aviation industry is why I hoped for a glimpse of understanding from Avalon pilots and others knowledgeable in the field. Thanks Ron and KiwiElf
    .
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    The feds were very quick to say this wasn’t terrorism, and, it was too early to release details. Seems the passengers are more stable and safer than the staff.

    The facade of airport security is finally coming to light. How about those in-flight meals, I wonder how much security those go through?

    How about who delivers them?

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    "Q" felt it important enough to mention it, O Donna. (See earlier post 6180 onward from the "Q" thread and comments/links/videos at the end of the post):

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...eyond-/page309

    ... or the actual "Q" website itself (scroll down a bit, it's #1845-1846):

    https://qanon.app/

    (This is the "Q" post - of course, it's open to interpretation):
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1846

    Q !!mG7VJxZNCI ID: a92e3a No.2556723 📁
    Aug 11 2018 14:07:01 (EST)

    Q !!mG7VJxZNCI ID: a92e3a No.2556646 📁
    Aug 11 2018 14:03:15 (EST)
    1534006548899.jpg

    Click image for larger version

Name:	1845-1.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	90.8 KB
ID:	38742

    Autists catch the message?
    Think missile.
    Do you believe in coincidences?
    Q


    >>2556646
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/11/u...sh-stolen.html
    BOOM
    <>BOOM
    <><>BOOM
    <><><>BOOM
    [NEXT WEEK]
    Q
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 12th August 2018 at 11:18. Reason: fix link

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Here is a video showing a 'fight sim only pilot' in a real, full motion simulator doing a 'bang up' ( not literally ) job of
    handling a Boing 737 for the first time. There are many more videos basically showing non real world pilots, even young kids
    accomplishing the same task. Yes. It is well within the realm of possibility to 'steal' an aircraft, even the 'heavy iron' just
    from learning to fly on your very own HP laptop.

    Would I recommend it? Not a chance.

    This non real pilot WAS a sim pilot as he stated in his transmissions with ATC. Seems to me this was 'suicide by intentionally
    crashing a stolen aircraft'. No terrorist. No conspiracy. Just a wannabe real world pilot with some seriously loose propellers.

    There is flight sim aircraft software for just about any aircraft, including the one in this situation that is as 'real as it gets'. Every gauge, button, lever, switch, control etc. as the real mccoy. And you have to follow real cockpit procedures or you ain't gonna get it started much less get into the air. I know because I have probably a hundred such aircraft.

    I'm also a pilot. 40 years now and counting. Also worked as a 'line technician' ( same as the plane thief was ) when working on my commercial 25+ years ago. As a line tech/aircraft fueler/parker I had access to any and all aircraft at any time when parked on the tarmac same as any line tech does. Most ( judging by the fact that I don't recall anyone else attempting this ) line techs aren't interested in stealing, stunting and crashing airplanes. But it can, and was accomplished. ;-(

    Last edited by Hip Hipnotist; 12th August 2018 at 08:10.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Quote Posted by Hip Hipnotist (here)
    This non real pilot WAS a sim pilot as he stated in his transmissions with ATC. Seems to me this was 'suicide by intentionally
    crashing a stolen aircraft'. No terrorist. No conspiracy. Just a wannabe real world pilot with some seriously loose propellers.
    Do you have a video reference/link where he says he was a sim pilot please, Hip? I heard him say;

    "I played video games before so I know what I'm doing a little bit."


    Am well aware that an experienced Sim Pilot can fly a real plane. (There was the case of a teenager stealing a Citation Jet many years ago, altho not quite in the same league as a Dash 8).

    I appreciate your flying experience vastly outweighs my own, and if "Q" hadn't mentioned it, I'd otherwise agree. (I don't know if you've been following the "Q" thread), but in the context of Q's post about it (above), perhaps we should be paying attention to it being something other than the MSM version of events.

    Cheers
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 12th August 2018 at 09:09.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Adding a bit of context, here’s what was said over the radio.

    ATC “Right now he’s just flying around and he just needs some help controlling his aircraft.”
    Rich “Nah, I mean, I don’t need that much help, I’ve played some video games before. I would like to figure out how to get this...make it pressurised or something so I’m not so light headed.”

    Here he tells them he’s going to loop it and if that goes well then he’s going nose down and calling it a night (paraphrasing). That audio is played over footage that appears to be before he crashed.


    Here you can see the plane loop and the jets following (wow).


    He reportedly looped and then crashed into the woods shortly after, as he said he would. It was claimed that the jets contacted him by radio before he went down but I didn’t keep a link because it’s unverifiable. Makes sense to me though, even if they did, they wouldn’t let him fly over a populated area (one would hope). Maybe they warned him or something after he looped the plane, but it seems shooting the plane down wasn’t necessary. MSM is still pushing their usual, tired agendas while reporting it but I agree with Hip. That’s quite an exit.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Quite an exit for sure!! There will be no "Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week" from this 'pilot'.

    Flights sims have been around for a few decades now, surprised this hasn't been attempted before.

    One wonders if copycats are on the horizon. Let's hope not.
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Talk about a coincidence! Q400 on the plane. I'm ready for a SerialBrain2 translation of this.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Quote Posted by enigma3 (here)
    Talk about a coincidence! Q400 on the plane. I'm ready for a SerialBrain2 translation of this.

    That was my thought . . .and then Q's statement: There are no coincidences.

    Underneath Q400, it says Next Gen (next generation, next general? or ??)
    on the tail it says: www.Q400.com
    when I go to that website, this comes up:

    You've requested a page on a website (www.q400.com) that is on the Cloudflare network. Cloudflare is currently unable to resolve your requested domain (www.q400.com). There are two potential causes of this:

    Most likely: if the owner just signed up for Cloudflare it can take a few minutes for the website's information to be distributed to our global network.
    Less likely: something is wrong with this site's configuration. Usually this happens when accounts have been signed up with a partner organization (e.g., a hosting provider) and the provider's DNS fails.
    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light!

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    I think we can all agree that the incident sent a message. What that message is is up for some debate.

    One possible message I got was a reminder that those people with means may very well send each other spectacular messages to the other that are veiled from the general public.

    Imaging a world where money is no object and as such, the power to manipulate is at hand. What the average person would think impossible or the machinations of a conspirator mind, those with the means and access to the necessary intelligence can (pull off).

    There are two world superimposed on each other. The everyday world of the average life and then there is the world that the average person without means can only imagine and yet see the real possibility it exists if they did (have the means). History (recent and past) is littered with stories of those that have had a glimpse or more of this higher phenomenal world(s).

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    "Q" felt it important enough to mention it, O Donna. (See earlier post 6180 onward from the "Q" thread and comments/links/videos at the end of the post):

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...eyond-/page309
    Thanks, Kiwi. Post # 6180


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    Last edited by RunningDeer; 12th August 2018 at 19:23.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    I am finding this whole play by play while happening released to the world incident rather sketchie.
    When does this ever happen???no loved ones trying to talk him out of doing himself???they had a fair amount of time.
    As well...with the crash site as close to population as it is ..where are pics of the crash site???...coast guard boat sent????No choppers???news ones possibly???the apparent crash site posted looks about as suspisious as the 167 ft wingspan jet apparently folding up its wings and creating a 16ft wide path into the pentigon.
    When is there not news pics of a plane crash site???

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?


    @ 8:21 - crash scene & aerial map

    Unrelated to vid below: Aerial view of stolen plane crash site on Ketron Island - (1:12 minutes)

    Complete coverage: Stolen plane crashes on Ketron Island

    {article}
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 12th August 2018 at 18:20.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Another perspective of the incident:

    Richard Russell, Who Stole Plane Near Seattle, Raises Troubling Security Questions


    Richard B. Russell, a ground service agent at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. Credit via social media

    By Kirk Johnson, Jacey Fortin and Christina Caron
    Aug. 11, 2018

    SEATTLE — The story is as bizarre as it is tragic: An airline worker who had no business being in a cockpit somehow took off from a major airport in a turboprop passenger plane, dipped and soared in the skies above the Seattle area, and then crashed into an island on Puget Sound.

    It was all over in about an hour. But the consequences of the unauthorized flight on Friday evening are monumental, aviation experts and investigators said.

    The man — a ground service agent identified as Richard B. Russell, according to a law enforcement official — exposed a troubling reality of airport security in the post-9/11 era. While many visible aspects of commercial flight that affect the routines of passengers have been hardened, parts of the system that are behind the scenes, but just as important to public safety as cockpit doors and screening machines, remain vulnerable. Continued here.

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Maybe it was a bet that went wrong for the overconfident "stunt pilot".

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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Last edited by Hervé; 12th August 2018 at 21:25.
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    Default Re: Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

    Did he crash while attempting to pull out of a loop or was it later? You cannot feel the G forces on a flight simulator and G forces must be managed. Excessive G force can create a stall (loss of lift from the wings).

    Aerobatics can be fun. My experience with an instructor.

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