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Thread: The strangeness of the California Fires

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    Avalon Member Bob's Avatar
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Wind and fuel makes for a blast furnace. A blast furnace is what is melting things Onawah, no weird weapon.

    A furnace even using coals with a bellows blacksmiths for hundreds of years have used such to melt metals, to refine ores..

    It is nothing other than extreme winds oxygenating a fire. That's the way it works with extreme temperatures.. Fire tornadoes, ducting, fuels being accelerated with oxygen.

    https://www.aircontrolindustries.com...-of-forge-fan/ -

    Artisans learned by watching fires what happens with WIND accelerating the temperature increase, the flame going from orange to a bright bright white...

    One can suck on a cigarette and see the ember GLOW, and temperature increase. A camper starting a fire blows on the kindling (adding air) or "fans the flames" to raise the temperature and accelerate combustion. Temperatures dramatically go UP when high speed air (with oxygen) is added..

    From WildFire Today - https://wildfiretoday.com/2011/02/26...est-fire-burn/

    Quote an average surface fire on the forest floor might have flames reaching 1 metre in height and can reach temperatures of 800°C (1,472°F) or more.

    Under extreme conditions a fire can give off 10,000 kilowatts or more per metre of fire front.

    This would mean flame heights of 50 metres or more and flame temperatures exceeding 1200°C (2,192°F).
    The melting point of aluminum is 1,220 degrees Fahrenheit. Aluminum melts in a forest fire quite easily.

    Adding oxygen to the FLAME: What does adding more air flow to a flame do? Temperatures INCREASE and are able to melt steel. When you have COALS and you add wind/oxygen, the temperature goes to about 3,500°F (1,927°C).

    Updrafts and fire-tornadoes add their own "wind" from the extreme heat rising.

    Adding external high speed winds 35 miles per hour and UPwards create the "bellows effect" of a black smith's forge and a QUIET fire (without wind, or cool temperatures, dew in the air) where temperatures are only melting aluminum.. jumps up from 2,192°F temp (quiet burn) to 3,500°F easily liquifying steel (which needs 2500 degrees to melt).

    It's not conspiracy weaponry, its tinder fuel coals and wind. It's been observed and used in forges for hundreds of years. It's a very well known phenomena.
    Last edited by Bob; 10th November 2018 at 22:03.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Paradise CA, Nov 2018
    Green trees? How is this possible? DEW?
    Click image for larger version

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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    So let me understand this @waves, you don't believe a report from PG&E to the reporting commission that power went out (lines down) 15 minutes before a call came in from on-the-ground witnesses...
    I believe that the report was made. Where did I say I didn't?

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    and you don't believe fire inspectors reporting that they are seeing downed powerlines causing a fire?
    I believe the fire inspectors were likely not lying. Did I say I didn't believe anyone?

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    And you don't believe people on the ground, the witnesses?...
    I believe the witnesses on the ground reported what they saw. Where did I imply I didn't believe them?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That leaves the points I did make.

    1. Was the location physically reached and viewed by anyone before hell broke loose from there?

    2. (rephrased so there's no missing it)
    If not, what is the proof that the power line wasn't helped to fall giving a nice plausible 'where/why the fire started' excuse, covering something else that actually ignited the fires from that extremely conveniently remote location?

    That thought occurred to me before I even found people who noticed this gigantic odd burst with a gigantic huge shadow on the satellite feed. It immediately makes a HUGE burst of smoke that travels west against the gulf stream. It is apparently way out of the scope of what a single downed powerline can create. Here are shots of the important points, the video below is tedious, but explanatory.










    added: SORRY FOR THE 3rd REPEAT OF THIS... I missed the others.....
    Last edited by waves; 11th November 2018 at 01:06.

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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1259123 and where you disagree with Bill, post 36 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1259145 you say you don't consider an official report "reliable evidence".

    There is no point attempting to look at logic and discuss observations of people. As neither of us was "there" the only thing we have is the testimony of those who were there. If you choose to doubt them, by all means, but please stay focused on the issues, that the power lines needed to be buried not overhead, and that fires do start when power lines touch the ground, or that trees touch the power lines. All reports from those present say it was the power lines, not some strange weapon "in the gulf" or wherever. I would believe those who were there.

    As to the so called "blast wave" .. seems to me folks that understand onshore Santa Ana winds and how they blow... quite possibly one will understand how smoke with California weather systems respond. There is nothing unusual there. There are good satellite pictures on Digital globe (virtually real time that shows the smoke) and those are accurate.

    Aviation weather is a good search to understand both ground winds and winds aloft, or that at altitude. Understanding how the winds flow through canyons, and how they flow thru a valley would be helpful also if one were to intelligently understand weather systems.

    One more time - The fire began two days ago, on November 8, near Pulga, California around the Plumas National Forest. Initial firefighters found only 10 to 15 acres burning when they arrived. There were downed power lines reported. The fire fighters said they were experiencing wind gusts up to 50 miles an hour, creating ideal conditions for the rapid spreading of the Camp Fire.

    The combination of strong winds, low humidity and warm conditions in northern California exacerbated the extent to which the Camp Fire spread.

    California is particularly vulnerable to wildfires due to the dry conditions and the presence of Santa Ana winds. The National Weather Service issued a warning of strong Santa Ana winds, sometimes in excess of 55 miles per hour, which would fuel any fires in the lowlands of California.

    The Santa Ana winds originate inland from the Great Basin, bringing in hot and dry air. They are particularly strong in the fall but can occur at any time of the year.

    The sudden injection of low humidity conditions and high winds causes a dramatic increase in the likelihood of wildfire growth within lowland California.

    This is graphically what it looks like the wind flow:


    These katabatic winds flow downhill due to the presence of high-pressure air masses over the Great Basin and the Mojave Desert. Air masses travel from areas of high pressure to low pressure, causing the air around the Great Basin to flow rapidly from the high-pressure area to low-pressure areas along California's coastline. Katabatic winds are downslope winds created when the mountain surface is colder than the surrounding air and creates a down slope wind.

    As winds flow down the mountains and to the coast, they can often channel between mountain passes, causing exceptional wind gusts. This is exactly the situation where these fires are active.

    This is what it looks like with the winds blowing from ON-SHORE to OFF-Shore.. Santa Ana winds.. clouds are showing clearly the "flow" orientation:


    (Source material published originally on Forbes science report)
    Last edited by Bob; 11th November 2018 at 03:59.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Something that doesn't even call for much speculation at all is what almost undoubtedly ACTUALLY HAPPENED, which Dutchsinse has covered several times already in the last week, including here starting at around 25 minutes in:
    ...and that is that it was an explosion of underground MAGMA, doubtlessly caused by all the surrounding, growing earthquake and volcanic activity, which is being exacerbated by the huge number of drilling and fracking and geothermal pumping operations, some of them RIGHT ON the faults and on old volcanic sites (including the recently discovered NEW SUPERVOLCANO!), which are now exhibiting signs of reawakening via tremors, plumes of steam and smoke.

    Quote Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)

    Recently on one of Dutchsinse's posts he connects the fires to seismic unrest here:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1258912 I suggest you read all the posts below as well.

    Is he on to something? . . . I suspect he is.
    Question for Bob: But it still isn't clear to me and many others, I think, what is causing the bizarre phenomena such as half a home burnt, untouched trees and brush surrounded by cinders. Is it really common for vehicles in fires to be burned almost to dust? Is that because these fires have been burning unusually hot?
    Quote Posted by waves (here)

    That thought occurred to me before I even found people who noticed this gigantic odd burst with a gigantic huge shadow on the satellite feed. It immediately makes a HUGE burst of smoke that travels west against the gulf stream. It is apparently way out of the scope of what a single downed powerline can create. Here are shots of the important points, the video below is tedious, but explanatory.
    Last edited by onawah; 11th November 2018 at 04:25.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Quote Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)
    If you think what's happening is normal, you are kidding yourselves.
    Yes PG&E doesn't maintain equipment as they should - they didn't in the past either
    The Forest Service does not maintain the forests as they should, haven't for a long time, partially due to environmentalist interference.

    Many citizens aren't good about maintaining their property, this isn't anything new.
    Ba-ba-Ra is right, what’s happening in California is not normal.

    I’m a native myself and have lived up and down the state with the exception of way northern portions. I left in 94' after graduating from college when things started to become out of hand (L.A. riots), and am so glad I did, I’ve never looked back. It was a beautiful place growing up and was nothing like what we’re witnessing now. My late father would be devastated by all the atrocities since his death in 2006. He and my mother retired in Napa, CA , it was his dream. I’m so happy ‘crazy’ didn’t come into play until after he was gone.

    I warned Sierra about this happening 5 years ago in an Agenda 21 thread back in 2013. I said something to the effect, ‘you won’t be thinking that, when your house burns down in the name of green’. At the time I was taking a lot of flack from many forum members about my Agenda 21 reporting. The thanks I got was to have my comments moved into a conspiracy thread and closed from public viewing and I was restricted from posting…..Now sadly, the prediction has come to fruition. I am beyond sick about it.

    So please listen up fellow Avalon members and viewers, here’s another ‘prediction’ that I hope is taken seriously……If you live in California, expect things to get a lot worse before they get better. California is being run into the ground and mismanaged by criminals who don’t give two rips about you or your family. I strongly suggest if you don’t enjoy ‘crazy’ and ‘apocalyptic’ type of scenarios, you might want to get out now! THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is huge and you do have other viable options, trust me, I moved and am so glad I did! Make sure you do your due diligence before taking the leap(don't move to strong Agenda 21 supporting communities). Keep one important fact in mind if you make the wise choice to leave, don’t try and turn your new location into the California you left….doing so will bring resentment from locals who are well aware of California’s shortcomings.



    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    Those recordings were happily immediately provided yesterday by PGE, the guiltiest deepstate agenda facillitator and the least reputable source to believe for doing anything for any reason but their own interest. In this case, where a fire started is not any proof of WHAT started it there. There is zero evidence to us that any transmission line 'accidentally' falling started it. We do not know if it was 'helped' and plenty of reason to suspect it might have been.

    We can't forget our enemy is not stupid. How would you start this fire and plausible deniability stories if you were rich, evil and had all the media and most advanced technology in the world available to you? When you're smart, you adjust your methods from last year's mistakes.

    I am completely unconvinced that nature did all the rest, there's way too much evidence of foul play in how the fires advanced. There are way too many similarities with the other recent mass destruction abnormal fire behavior fires documented in great detail in other threads.

    Climate change - PLUS deliberate, destructive weather manipulation. The power to rain or dry or amplify wind anywhere was harnessed decades ago. We are becoming aware of long term weather manipulation to set up conditions to enact longterm agendas years later like these fires.

    Winds - Yep 'red alert' fear porn flooding all news outlets for two days now.... it reeks of plans rolling out with a pre-emptive plausible deniability story for the coming aftermath for wind that is going to be created.
    I hear you waves , and share your concerns…I suspect these events are many years in the making and I feel there’s a good chance what’s taking place is not necessarily what it appears on the surface.
    Last edited by we-R-one; 11th November 2018 at 05:19.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Quote Ron Mauer Sr question:
    Paradise CA, Nov 2018

    Green trees? How is this possible? DEW?
    Quote Onawah - Question for Bob: But it still isn't clear to me and many others, I think, what is causing the bizarre phenomena such as half a home burnt, untouched trees and brush surrounded by cinders. Is it really common for vehicles in fires to be burned almost to dust? Is that because these fires have been burning unusually hot?
    Refer to here: to understand fire temperature, and what happens when AIR (oxygen) at high speed is added to a fire that has coals in it: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1259161

    For those who want to know how come wind is stopped or deviated by objects, let's look at some basics. Wind is wind, how it blows and where (what direction) is based on the structures in the area it encounters. Walls, trees, and even cross wind gusts. Everything in the pathway deviates. A hot gust here, a spot of cool, different pressures exist, and wind follows the paths being evoked - everything in the way directs the wind. One is not on an open beach, or a wide open field. There are winds moving in different directions at changes in altitude. All those variables alter the flow.

    If one had a wind-tunnel with smoke in the wind tunnel one could see what happens when objects are placed in the flow. One can see what happens, and MODEL it.

    Here is a simple diagram with wind blowing near some buildings - it's quite easy to see that there will be different locations where the wind is or isn't. (in the case of the fires, the "blast furnace temperature winds" and hydrocarbons present within the stream keep that temp high)..



    A most interesting effect is called "drafting" or driving really close behind a big semi-tractor-trailer truck.. One can virtually get sucked behind the truck due to the lower air pressure and the vortex created by the shadow.

    Notice in the top picture the vortexes created and the air is directed in a specific pattern due to the 0bject's shape (and objects that deflect the wind).

    This is very good illustration to wind moving around two buildings for instance. The super hot flow is directed into a primary rotating vortex, and there are pockets of "cool" due to the deviation of the primary superheated wind flow. I would assume that may be part of the "fire tornado" often reported during such intensely superheated fires.

    By the way, a reader could ask oneself this, how come a TORNADO is able to not touch a neighbors house, but totally destroy the other house next door? Same issue same answer.. Wind is vortexed and conditions, pressure changes, different temperatures, winds aloft, are all the variables as well as ground conditions... and then with a fire tornado, the superheat is concentrated in to that vortex, and that vortex then moves where it is deviated to.

    When it is super-heated to the forge temperature, it will melt steel in it's path, and it will move similarly to how tornado's move:


    In the lower picture, the wind has been deviated by specifically installing objects within the wind's path to shape and re-direct the wind. A super-heated "blast furnace-like wind" can be directed exactly the same way, and specifically the "blow torch" can melt what it is directed to, BY the surroundings, not some energy weapon. It is simple objective understanding how wind moves around objects.




    I've been through many of those areas in California, Oregon, Washington State, Nevada - I've been through many of the canyons in California and have seen the situation first hand. I've experienced the harrowing escape situation too. It is not something anyone ever wants to experience...

    The reality is, if the area is not properly maintained it is a situation waiting to turn into a tragedy and disaster. It doesn't take any spooky weapon to do the deed either. A dry lightning strike, a power-line down, a stupidly tossed cigar butt or a stupidly created campfire, train brakes locked up setting off sparks, or a truck's brakes burning.. Any of that can and has set off fires.. Or human arson. Or an accident from a chimney fire. California has the addition of the Santa Ana winds to exacerbate fires. In Colorado Springs (the Springs fire), very similar situations happened with the winds coming out of the canyons, how the fires destroyed some buildings, some cars, some trees, but left others untouched.

    If the mitigation of a heavily wooded area is not done, normal ground cover can catch fire if the conditions are ripe for it and a spark hits it. A month of no rain can set the stage. Strong drying Santa Ana winds in California can dry the foliage even more. If one wanted to study weather patterns of El Nino, La Nina, or hot spots in the ocean and try to come up with a predictor why patterns shift, by all means, look for the pattern which causes the shifting.

    Look at changes in solar output. It appears to me if one just looks at what seems to be oddities like "more fires" or "less rain", and saying that it is a weapons system "doing it", because one has not researched the actual potential natural conditions (the science) one is taking the "short cut, or the emotional easy way out". Armchair pseudoscience being espoused by sensationalistic trendy "faces" sells soap, it doesn't necessarily even come close to fact.

    Quote Fire officials in Butte County, where the Camp Fire recently became the most destructive fire in California’s history, are blaming low humidity, high winds and a lack of rain this November for helping spread the blaze at a ferocious speed. Problems with PG&E power lines may also have started the fire.
    The focus, the SOLUTION should be specifically on the situation identifying that which IS, dry timber, dry grasses, a dry Santa Ana wind, downed power-lines igniting the grasses.. Properly insulated buried power lines would solve the fire issue and it would solve the latent power-line EMF issue.. (the health hazard). People need to insist that those solutions be done.

    In my opinion looking at the variables, the "science" the canyons, the weather, the lack of rain, there is nothing "strange" with the California fires. They are following the logical outcome of the lack of proper fire mitigation steps, they are following the power-lines placement, they are following what happens when tinder dry timber and highly flammable grasses are ignited, and the terrain exacerbates rapid growth (spread) up hills.

    Are they tragic, absolutely. Have people built close to timber, absolutely. Have power-line-right-of-ways not been maintained properly, absolutely (thereby allowing for accidents to happen, or "acts of god").

    (see the post on where Ba-ba-Ra asks the question WHY are these current fires more dramatic, more devastating, what's different ? below -

    I answer that with the research which points out EXTREME PINE BEETLE infestation killing hundreds of millions of trees in the area of the wildfires, making for tinder-box, or match-box condition - bingo the thread's topic is solved.)
    Last edited by Bob; 13th November 2018 at 19:24. Reason: removed some distraction to keep on topic
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    I understand your sentiments, and thanks for the info, Bob, but apologies for pointing out that I don't think you watched Dutch's video, because your question isn't actually relevant, and there is nothing sensationalized about Dutch's very factual reports.
    Last edited by onawah; 11th November 2018 at 04:58.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    I have a question for anyone who might know . . . .

    Well, two actually. Has the Trump administration put a squeeze on California for supporting sanctuary cities, etc?

    Can the criminal political leadership there use wild fires as a way to regain access to federal funds?
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Norman, per your second question, about are funds available to California (or any other State) which has suffered wildfires?

    https://www.fema.gov/hazard-mitigati...gram-post-fire

    Hazard Mitigation Grant Program Post Fire

    This section contains information about our Hazard Mitigation Grant Program (HMGP) Post Fire.

    The purpose of this page is to connect individuals and state, local, and tribal government representatives with the resources they need to implement hazard mitigation measures in their communities after wildfire disasters.

    Wildfires can destroy homes, businesses, infrastructure, natural resources, and agriculture. They can also exacerbate secondary hazards and leave areas prone to floods, erosion, and mudflows for many years.

    FEMA is now providing mitigation assistance using the HMGP for Fire Management Assistance declarations in fiscal years 2017 and 2018, which covers October 1, 2016, through September 30, 2018. The Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 authorizes FEMA to provide HMGP assistance for this specified time period.

    Typically, HMGP funding is only available following Presidential major disaster declarations.
    So the President has to DECLARE it a major disaster.. (I recall hearing that statement used elsewhere for major disasters, a Presidential declaration and then funds can be released..)

    As to the first question, Sanctuary cities and FEMA funding being withheld?

    from the minutes - https://www.fema.gov/media-library-d...FINAL(508).pdf

    Quote How is FEMA addressing the Executive Order on withholding disaster assistance to ‘sanctuary cities’?

    FEMA will uphold the Administration’s orders.

    That being said, there is a hold on this order because of
    injunctions filed by several cities, including San Francisco.

    There is also the challenge of defining criteria for
    ‘sanctuary city’ status before funds can be withheld for that reason.

    Once the definition is clear, policy on what
    types of funding is affected must be developed.

    The process is far from complete, but FEMA will abide by the
    Administration’s instructions.

    The executive order will not affect grants this fiscal year.
    The FY 19-23 Resource Allocation Plan (RAP) is forward looking. And provides FEMA a working budget for declared disaster funding. Would Trump declare California in general a disaster area in the mountains and flatlands near the mountains affected by the fires? (Is San Francisco burning, I believe no, so their status as "sanctuary city" would not be an issue for the rest of California where the fires are burning to be declared as an official "disaster area".)

    In theory San Francisco, a "sanctuary city" is not part of the current wild-fire situation, and potentially power-line-right-of-way mitigation should be supported thru FEMA funds through FY 19-23.

    Just recently, Pres Trump signed a move of 10 million dollars from the FEMA budget to ICE is a drop in the bucket. FEMA has an annual budget of $13 billion that is used and distributed in different states according to the emergencies that occur in each one.
    Last edited by Bob; 11th November 2018 at 08:39.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires


    Juan Browne, aka blancolirio of the excellent Oroville update videos reports here.

    Interestingly, he was camping in the 3 lakes area just prior, and filmed the extremely dry and windy conditions, commenting on the fire hazard situation. Also comments on the hydro electric facilities in the area.

    He includes the radio conversation concerning power issues 15 minutes before fire outbreak.

    The title ‘camp fire’ has nothing to do with an actual camp fire, but the location of the outbreak near Camp Creek Road.

    He expresses concern that a change in the weather may jeopardise Oroville.
    A short but succinct video, well worth watching his reportage.
    Last edited by avid; 11th November 2018 at 15:47.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    For me, the question is: Not how these fires get started, but why do they become such mega fires.

    Again, we've always had droughts here, we've always had fires, we've always had winds.

    But even the firefighters are saying that the fires in the last few years have become worse. They should know.
    How did this Camp Fire in 2-3 days become the worse fire in California history. We've had fires that have burned for weeks & months.

    I'm not trying to let PG&E off the hook, I'm trying to figure out what is different. What new component has been added to make these mega-fires.

    Quote From Norman: Has the Trump administration put a squeeze on California for supporting sanctuary cities, etc? and Can the criminal political leadership there use wild fires as a way to regain access to federal funds?
    Actually, Trump threw this out sometime during the big Redding fire this August: What do you do when Federal Funds are cut off from Santuary Cities . . .Fires. . . . My ears really perked up when he said it.

    Quote From We-R-One: If you live in California, expect things to get a lot worse before they get better. California is being run into the ground and mismanaged by criminals who don’t give two rips about you or your family.
    Yep, and keep in mind the San Joaquin Valley in central California has been called "The food basket of the world", for the diversity of its produce and California's economy is now the 5th-biggest in the world, and has overtaken the United Kingdom.

    So, this just isn't a California problem. If we go down, it will affect everyone in the US.
    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light!

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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    I'm finding it hard to believe that you actually listened to any of Dutchsinse's reports, Bob. He never said that earthquakes had anything to do with the starting of the fires.
    What he did say is that the underground explosion and plume of smoke near Eugene Oregon was in an area that is known to be volcanic, and that there have been tremors and plumes of steam and smoke in other areas on the West Coast that have been known to have been volcanic in the past as well, and that those may have been caused by magma (there aren't many other logical explanations), and may be contributing to the dry conditions on the ground, which lead to fires.
    Ivory tower scientists are having a very hard time reconciling themselves to the fact that a very smart and witty though relatively uneducated tree surgeon has figured out how earthquakes work and has been able to accurately predict over and over again not only when and where they will occur, but their intensity. And his reports continue to grow comprehensively and in accuracy all the time. He explains what he learns as he goes, which is very generous of him. Even the "experts" are learning, in spite of themselves and adopting his methods, though they are loath to admit it.
    The fact that his youtube reports that contain the most important information and WARNINGS are sometimes censored is good evidence of the kind of professional jealousy that his accuracy is inciting.
    His theories are hardly distracting from important matters at hand on various threads; on the contrary, they can be extremely HELPFUL for Avalonians like Sierra and Ba-Ba-Ra who may be affected by dangerous conditions on the West Coast, not to mention people reading Avalon all over the world who may be affected by earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, etc.
    The "experts" sure aren't doing a good job at that--frequently that aren't even reporting earthquakes or other dangerous situations at all, and it appears they are much more afraid of making mistakes and concerned with their professional reputations than they are with people's safety, while it's clear to me and a lot of his listeners that that is Dutch's concern, not "selling soap".
    If he finds it ironic and amusing that he is such an irritant to the USGS etc., I can't really fault him too much for that, or for his rants when it makes him angry.
    Frankly, I think they richly deserve it, and he has just cause for his ire.
    ; [QUOTE=Bob;1259230]
    Quote The post subject: bringing up "Dutch's theories" over and over, I feel therefore is off-topic frequently and reposting continually his hyperbole in other threads is absolutely distracting to the thread topic(s). I find it incredulous actually that anyone is accepting as science that "Dutch" has the answer [that earthquakes] are behind ( the basis behind ) the fire that started at the dam area from downed power lines. What appears to me to be self serving justification based on an immense tragedy to "sell his soap" really is not in my book demonstrating the highest of ethics.
    Last edited by onawah; 11th November 2018 at 17:14.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    I think Dutchsinse may have figured out part of it, but John Casey and others talk about the Grand Solar Minimum causing conditions that lead to earthquakes, tsunamis, etc.. See: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1258764
    The tens of thousands of geothermal, gas and oil drilling points all over the West Coast are creating weakness in the crust and appear to be contributing to underground magma coming more to the surface, such as evinced by the recent deep underground explosion near Eugene, Oregon.
    That magma could be causing heat to rise more from underground, which would cause the soil to become drier than usual.
    Also, a BIG contributing factor would be the contents of chemtrails, which have been reported from various sources not only to be toxic, but incendiary. See: Aluminum Dust from Geoengineering Fueling Super Wildfires: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300707890.html
    Quote Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)
    For me, the question is: Not how these fires get started, but why do they become such mega fires.

    Again, we've always had droughts here, we've always had fires, we've always had winds.

    But even the firefighters are saying that the fires in the last few years have become worse. They should know.
    How did this Camp Fire in 2-3 days become the worse fire in California history. We've had fires that have burned for weeks & months.

    I'm not trying to let PG&E off the hook, I'm trying to figure out what is different. What new component has been added to make these mega-fires.
    Last edited by onawah; 11th November 2018 at 17:16.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Here is that article about chemtrails contributing to fires:
    Aluminum Dust from Geoengineering Fueling Super Wildfires According to Author
    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300707890.html
    LOS ANGELES, Sept. 6, 2018 /PRNewswire/ --
    "While researching for his new novel, author Denis Mills discovered an alarming link between chemtrails and the super wildfires.

    The author discovered that unprecedented levels of aluminum and barium nanodust, primary components in chemtrails, both of which are incendiary, are fueling the ferocity of the super wildfires.

    A retired USAF brigadier general, Gen. Charles Jones, has been quoted from a public source as stating, "These white aircraft spray trails are the result of scientifically verifiable spraying of aluminum particles and other toxic heavy metals, polymers and chemicals."

    "Millions of tons of aluminum and barium are being sprayed almost daily across the U.S., stated Mills, a former naval officer and UCLA graduate. "Just sprinkle aluminum or barium dust on a fire and see what happens. It's near explosive. When wildfires break out, the aluminum/barium dust results in levels of fire intensity so great as to cause firefighters to coin a new term ̶ 'firenados,' " he said. The entire U.S., in addition to various other NATO countries, are being sprayed."

    The government has for years denied the existence of chemtrail spraying. It now calls the program by various names, all under Geoengineering.

    According to Cal Fire operation chief Steve Crawford, the fires are burning differently and more aggressively. It has been reported the fires move faster than anyone has ever seen and barriers that in years past contained them such as rivers, no longer do.

    In California's Mt. Shasta region, Francis Mangel, a USDA biologist tested and found elevated levels of aluminum in water and soil samples of 4,610 parts per million which is 25,000 times the safe guidelines of the World Health Organization.

    Some have claimed Mr. Mills is publicity-seeking for his teen and young adult fiction adventure series, Matt Legend, about four teens who encounter and battle the supernatural and all kinds of strange things, including the forces behind the chemtrails. The adventure thriller is being called the new Harry Potter. Mr. Mills states the research speaks for itself and the novel is only what led to the discovery. "Authors are known for researching things to death," he stated. No one can argue, however, the wildfires' newfound ferocity or the millions of tons of aluminum/barium nanodust which have appeared, which is killing vegetation and causing illness and death.

    "Matt Legend: Veil of Lies" on Amazon:
    https://www.amazon.com/Matt-Legend-V...ds=matt+legend

    Contact: Denis Mills "

    Also, interesting comment here: http://911scholars.ning.com/video/ch...mps-highway-in

    "Interviewed firefighters openly admit when interviewed that no amount of water can put out these fires, although they do not make a link to Chemtrails thermocouple incendiaries containing Al, Ba & Sr, but know the fires are far, far hotter and more super-intense than normal fires, just like the thermitic fires of the WTC complex.....

    Thermite burns underwater as the burning in the basements of the TwinTowers that went on for months, underwater.

    Some people are making the logical, scientific connections, but most people are totally clueless.

    It looks like the cars from 911, many of them fried and metal parts melted into running puddles.

    Wake up folks, normal fires do not burn at temperatures that melt metals, esp. steel. "
    Last edited by onawah; 11th November 2018 at 18:09.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Post by Paul on the Q thread here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1259242

    Quote Do you believe in coincidences?
    How many coincidences before it becomes mathematically impossible?
    Expand your thinking.
    >Amount of fires in CA past 12-months?
    >Amount of fires in CA past 10-years?
    >Date FED funding cut off from CA as result of violation(s) of Sanctuary State/City?
    >CA budget cuts past 12-months re: Fire & Prevention?
    >>Reduce/eliminate dry brush clean up?
    >>Reduce/eliminate tree-line clean up?
    >>Reduce/eliminate fire break installation(s)?
    >>Reduce/eliminate chopper fly over(s) to target 'high exposure' areas?
    >>Reduce/eliminate population areas exposure & fire break safety management?
    >>Reduce/eliminate use of inmates [correction facilities] for Highway clean up and dry brush removal?
    What is the primary purpose of declaring a State of Emergency?
    What determines the size of the FED payment to a State that has declared a State of Emergency?
    What is the current debt of CA?
    The More You Know…
    Q

    While you might say: We can't have it both ways: Is it the explosions of magma underground or the nasty politicians.

    They could take a natural disaster and enhance it.
    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light!

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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Thank Avid for finding an excellent video (only a little over 8 minutes), it perfectly shows the situation, of extremely dry conditions, where the powerlines are right on a slope where UP-HILL heat/wind will rapidly carry the fire and burning embers into other trees and brush.

    That particular brush is highly highly flammable, the numbers of dead or dying trees from the drought, from beetle kill (pine bark beetles invade the bark of these beautiful trees, destroying them) which leaves virtual "standing match-poles" (like a strike anywhere match), and one spark plus high winds, and the wildfire starts.

    The link that describes the situation of 100,000,000 (100 million ! ) trees killed by the beetle infestation statewide is here: https://www.sierraclub.org/californi...and-sacramento This is from the Sierra Club a very pro-active nature conservancy group.

    Please look at this image, and you can see it matches the images in the Video below:


    California has laws on the books that states that the flammable scrub, sage, coyote "brushes" (small bush like schrub) need to be cleared away from dwellings, buildings, fuel storage areas.

    http://sacramento.granicus.com/MetaV...meta_id=384735 -

    Here's a few excerpts:

    Quote from the 2010 California Fire Code.

    C. Local Climatic Conditions:

    1. Climate impacts fire behavior and other major emergency events because
    it cannot be controlled.

    The drying out of wood shakes and wild land fuels in the summer months allows for easy ignition.

    2. The building of homes within weed-covered rural areas and the
    combustible weeds on vacant urban lots, coupled with windy conditions, is
    a recipe for disaster. Sacramento has four distinct seasons: summer,
    winter, fall, and spring. The distinctions of these seasons are an attraction
    to the area and one reason why significant population growth has
    occurred. The population growth has impacted emergency service levels
    causing a strain on emergency services, and the result is increased
    response times.

    3. Sacramento has significant variations in weather patterns.

    4. Average yearly rainfall is approximately 19 inches. This rainfall normally
    occurs from October to April. (NOTE, this means a virtual desert condition NORMALLY exists)

    5. During the summer months there is generally no measurable precipitation.
    Temperatures for this dry period range from 70 to 112 degrees Fahrenheit
    and are frequently accompanied by light to gusty Delta winds. The
    relative humidity during summer months range from 2% to 30%, which is
    arid.

    The city contains many acres of grasslands, which, in conjunction
    with the dry and windy conditions, create a hazardous situation that has
    led to extensive grass and brush fires in recent years.

    More development is extending from the urban core into the grass-covered areas. Winddriven
    fires have led to serious consequences in similar areas of the state.

    6. In the past, several consecutive years of drought conditions have
    occurred, thus reducing the available water supply. Ground water as well
    as surface supplies have all been affected. The drought conditions have
    led to lower water tables, reduced fire flow testing, water contamination,
    and water conservation efforts.
    and from: http://www.fire.ca.gov/about/downloa...entionlaws.pdf (Cal Fire prevention laws)

    Quote (b) Maintain around and adjacent to the building or structure
    additional fire protection or firebreak made by removing all brush,
    flammable vegetation, or combustible growth that is located within
    100 feet from the building or structure or to the property line or at
    a greater distance if required by state law, or local ordinance, rule, or
    regulation.

    This section does not prevent an insurance company that
    insures a building or structure from requiring the owner of the building
    or structure to maintain a firebreak of more than 100 feet around the
    building or structure.
    The LA Times (Los Angeles California) in October a year ago said this:
    Power lines and electrical equipment are a leading cause of California wildfires

    The deadliest wildfires in state history have raised questions about whether a repeat culprit might again be to blame for starting or spreading at least some of the Northern California blazes: utility companies and their equipment.

    The explosive failure of power lines and other electrical equipment has regularly ranked among the top three singular sources of California wildfires for the last several years. In 2015, the last year of reported data, electrical power problems sparked the burning of 149,241 acres — more than twice the amount from any other cause.

    And regulators have hit the state's investor-owned utilities with tens of millions of dollars in fines related to wildfires, including $37 million for the 2007 Malibu fire (Southern California Edison); $14.4 million for the Witch, Rice and Guejito fires the same year (San Diego Gas & Electric); and $8.3 million for the September 2015 Butte Fire (Pacific Gas & Electric).

    (A repeating pattern) A review of emergency radio traffic recordings found that fire crews were dispatched to at least 10 spots in Sonoma County in response to reports of sparking electrical wires and exploding transformers as high winds pummeled the area on the night of Oct. 8, the San Jose Mercury News reported. The first fires were reported about the same time, the newspaper said.

    The electrical lines and equipment are owned by Pacific Gas & Electric Co. (PG&E).
    In other words in the recent main fires in California, these factors continue to exist, unremediated:
    1) extremely dry conditions, and dead and dying highly flammable brush and trees on steep slopes (a steep slope allows for a rapid movement of the fires up the hillside)

    2) powerlines which run on and within these extremely dangerous conditions which have not had the "right of way" (or an area below the power-lines which are TOTALLY clear of brush and trees and bushes and grasses) - the purpose of the right of way is to allow for access to the powerlines and to provide a FIRE-BREAK, and a safety zone should a line go down to prevent any fire

    3) power which has not been turned off and allowed to remain on during high winds where powerlines will sway in the wind, touch and spark, potentially coming crashing down LIVE into the right of way, and starting a fire from uncleared combustible material.

    4) fire-access roads not maintained to reach the major powerline right of way areas.

    Access must be cleared so that fire vehicles can enter. (At the dam area where the fire started the "camp road fire" the access roads were hardly accessible as reported by firefighters on the ground)
    The issue remains that the California authorities have not insisted that PG&E properly address items 1-4 above. In other words, gross negligence is very obvious. It is not "federal responsibility" to police the lack of enforcement of Statewide rules, or to go after a local utility for the STATE.

    It is in-fact a California issue, legally, the local authorities in California have in essence given PG&E a PASS to continue to violate laws and put people at risk.

    President Trump it appears is almost right in saying it is CALIFORNIA's fault that laws that were broken remain uncorrected, and the perpetrators were continually NOT dealt with. Instead we see an agenda (California is generally opposed to ANYTHING that President Trump says), where violators are ALLOWED to go free.

    I'd highly recommend that readers take a few minutes (8 minutes) to review a qualified person's video (below) who was on the ground right near the fire area for the camp-road-fire and experienced the conditions, and actually filmed what it looked like, the brush conditions, the dead beetle kill trees, and the power-lines with uncleared growth.

    In California one sees this very often, powerlines without any firebreak and high tension lines on steep hills - the scrub brush is easily ignited by sparks from the lines if they touch (hot metal drops to the ground onto the brush). The area immediately under the line should be cleared for 100 feet of ALL brush, anything that can ignite:


    If this clearing is not done, with the winds, dryness, and upslope rapid burn ability, these fires will continue.

    California IS allowing violators to go free, which most definitely comes across in President Trump's dramatic sometimes un-eloquent observations.

    Trump realizes and voices how he can using the words he can, these FIRES are California's problem, the problem being CALIFORNIA not the federal government needs to enforce the right of way laws for the power-lines.

    Any agenda it seems is coming out of "vested interests" in California wanting to maintain their status quo of allowing violators and criminals a PASS. California is ALLOWING the Utility to charge its customers for it's negligence ! Customers WILL PAY for the damages created by the Utility in rate hikes. How about that folks? California legislators sided for PG&E.


    Quote Posted by avid (here)

    Juan Browne, aka blancolirio of the excellent Oroville update videos reports here.

    Interestingly, he was camping in the 3 lakes area just prior, and filmed the extremely dry and windy conditions, commenting on the fire hazard situation. Also comments on the hydro electric facilities in the area.

    He includes the radio conversation concerning power issues 15 minutes before fire outbreak.

    The title ‘camp fire’ has nothing to do with an actual camp fire, but the location of the outbreak near Camp Creek Road.

    He expresses concern that a change in the weather may jeopardise Oroville.
    A short but succinct video, well worth watching his reportage.
    assorted references:
    Will President Trump have the federal government SUE the State of California? (with respect to the fires, State gross negligence (lack of proper enforcement) and the utility responsible for the gross negligence ) - it is with precedent that such may happen.

    reference:

    https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi...ty_scholarship

    Quote It also remains true that state
    officials may be sued personally in federal court,
    in privately brought actions seeking money damages
    from them, should they act in disregard of
    specific provisions in some federal acts. Why? Because
    neither state nor local officials acquire any
    personal immunity by force of the Eleventh
    Amendment.
    Quite possibly violating the "public's safety" by allowing the improper maintenance of the right-of-ways of Utility's power lines to continue to persist, may be a focus of the Federal Suit(s).

    Allowing a dangerous condition to persist (criminal act of negligence), for instance knowingly allowing spoiled food to be put into commerce, or allowing a faulty heating system that can put deadly carbon monoxide into a home or school or business.

    Determining those parties culpable would be a Justice department action. California has persisted in ALLOWING the Utilities (PG&E) to get away with not properly maintaining the power-line right of way and access to the right of way(s).

    Indeed California legislatures, and California's fire regulation enforcement may well be focused on by President Trump. To deal with those who should be responsible for their resident's safety, ignoring their fiduciary responsibility.
    Last edited by Bob; 11th November 2018 at 21:19.
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    Thumbs up Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Hi Ba-ba-Ra

    Quote For me, the question is: Not how these fires get started, but why do they become such mega fires.

    Again, we've always had droughts here, we've always had fires, we've always had winds.

    But even the firefighters are saying that the fires in the last few years have become worse. They should know.
    How did this Camp Fire in 2-3 days become the worse fire in California history. We've had fires that have burned for weeks & months.

    I'm not trying to let PG&E off the hook, I'm trying to figure out what is different. What new component has been added to make these mega-fires.
    I think you ask a great question. In fact, I believe you solved the mystery by asking the RIGHT question. What is the new component, what is different. Bingo. And Bravo !

    Looking at all the factors: The variable has been this - the increase in dead trees in California has been RISING due to a pine beetle infestation.

    More dead trees equals more hydrocarbon laden fuel.

    The increase in pine beetle kill has been exponentially increasing in California. Healthy trees can resist to an extent a brush fire if the wind is not too bad to burn "green wood". Super high temperatures of the fires due to very high winds can even ignite wet green wood.

    There is the answer I believe, the beetle kill has been horrendous.

    Just looking at the Chico area (one town near the Paradise fire) what are the tree conditions ?- https://www.newsreview.com/chico/content?oid=22942026

    THIS is what is happening - matchbox conditions:


    The brown trees are dead trees in the image. A few green ones remain scattered in-between.
    In October 2015, Gov. Jerry Brown called the phenomenon “the worst epidemic of tree mortality” in California’s recorded history and declared a state of emergency.

    At the time, the U.S. Forest Service estimated 22 million trees were dead.

    As of Nov. 18, a little more than a year later, the estimate had risen to 102 million trees, mostly in 10 counties in the southern and central Sierra Nevada. For perspective, there are some 4.1 billion live trees statewide. Bark beetles have killed about 2.5 percent of the forests, and roughly 62 million trees died this year alone.
    There is the "variable" or what is different - an explosion in tree death, perfect fire fuel. Add sparks, add gusty Santa Ana wind and tragedy is the result. Bingo ! The question about the Strangeness of the California Wildfires is now solved - well done !
    Last edited by Bob; 13th November 2018 at 19:26.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Latest update:A Red Flag Warning denoting a high risk of wildfire has been extended in California until Tuesday, CBS Los Angeles reports.

    Red Flag Warnings are issued for conditions that could lead to "extreme fire behavior" within 24 hours, according to Cal Fire.



    The National Weather Service Sacramento said "critical fire weather conditions" are expected across Northern California Saturday night to Monday morning "due to strong winds & dry conditions."

    Interesting excerpt:
    "Firefighter union president rips Trump
    Brian K. Rice, the president of the California Professional Firefighters, criticized President Trump on Saturday after he threatened to withhold federal payments to the state, claiming its forest management is "so poor." The president made the comments as the state is battling multiple deadly wildfires.

    "The president's message attacking California and threatening to withhold aid to the victims of the cataclysmic fires is ill-informed, ill-timed and demeaning to those who are suffering as well as the men and women on the front lines," Brian K. Rice said in a statement.

    "Wildfires are sparked and spread not only in forested areas but in populated areas and open fields fueled by parched vegetation, high winds, low humidity and geography," Rice said.

    He added, "Moreover, nearly 60 percent of California forests are under federal management, and another two-thirds under private control. It is the federal government that has chosen to divert resources away from forest management, not California." "

    Much more at:
    https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/ca...-live-updates/
    Last edited by onawah; 11th November 2018 at 20:24.
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    Default Re: The strangeness of the California Fires

    Why is an electrical arc a highly dangerous situation in a wooded area?

    In an area where the arc has melted the steel metal (power-lines melted) that conduct the power?

    Why is it dangerous? The heat generated in the arc, is so high, it vaporizes the surfaces, the remaining metal is turned into a liquid and comes in contact when it falls to the ground and hits anything combustible on the ground.

    An Arc Flash event can expel large amounts of deadly energy.

    The arc causes an ionization of the air, and arc flash temperatures can reach as high as 35,000 degrees Fahrenheit. This arc temperature then is hotter than the surface of the sun.

    Arc welding of metals is a very known process. Steel is easily melted simply with high current AC or DC and some electrical wires able to be brought together to "strike an arc".

    Again this is the situation with the immense current in the power-lines in California's energy grid system. Not rocket science, no mystery, no hidden metal melting "bombs" - the wires themselves carrying the current will act like an arc welder's electrodes.

    Here's some views of what it looks like:





    These videos below are very very clear what happens.

    No mystery here, no bombs, no conspiracy, just a condition that happens with high voltage power lines now and then..

    And the reason the power line right of ways MUST be cleared for at least 100 feet below the towers and transformers and switches..



    Each of us play our part in creating a new story for humanity and our planet ~

  40. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Bob For This Post:

    Ba-ba-Ra (12th November 2018), DNA (12th November 2018), onawah (12th November 2018), RunningDeer (11th November 2018), Satori (11th November 2018)

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