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Thread: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    I do not find a paper with a "click bait title", published in the Lancet, funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, authored by 512 "collaborators" (yes, I counted them), many of whom have close associations with Big Pharma, that studies correlations between large amounts of self-reported and institutionally collected data, without significant considerations of various correlating factors and mechanisms, and that finds vanishingly close to zero correlation between 0 and 1 drink, (see the following chart taken from the Lancet's posting of this article), to be evidence worthy of consideration when I am deciding whether or not to have a glass of wine or beer each day.

    Almost every detail in my long paragraph above is a red flag to me, associated with suspecting that this published study is, like so many others, rubbish.
    And I'll drink to that! "Cheers", Paul.

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    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Almost every detail in my long paragraph above is a red flag to me, associated with suspecting that this published study is, like so many others, rubbish.
    another excelent example...... but then, most people do not appreciate the importance of the Trivium.

    c
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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Is this the secret of happiness, health and a long life? Oxford professor of evolutionary psychology argues alcohol has been key to mankind's survival and success
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6096235/Oxford-professor-argues-alcohol-key-mankinds-survival-success.html

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    My great aunt who is now passed at the age of 84 drank a pint of kesslers whiskey everyday and smoked a pack of camel cigarettes everyday too for 45 years. If anything I would say that woman was preserved, lots of fond memories of my aunt. If anything she did it her way!

    As for me , making my homemade wine is always a challenge and very rewarding at the end of the day .

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Whenever I see a study on what causes longevity and what reduces it, I always laugh a little inside.

    Let's assume for a moment that healthy longevity is nearly strictly related to a "spiritual will to live" and "appreciation for life".
    Those who have lost their will to live and lost their ability to appreciate life, tend to try to find the meaning of their life at the bottom of a bottle, perhaps slightly more-so than those who just enjoy drinking.

    Correlation <> Causation.

    And this would also perhaps explain why Auntie "smoke a pack and drink a bottle daily" lived to be 84 - to borrow pyrangello's great aunt that echoes many, many other anecdotes

    Yet in medical science, if they can't isolate a "molecular mechanism of action, then the correlation cannot exist". So you get these forced grasping at straws conclusions that always bypass the real component.

    I am not advocating drinking per se, but maintaining an open attitude toward life, extending variety as wide as possible in all areas and maintaining moderation in all areas will keep you healthier and happier and more long lived than any abstinence from anything we're told (except stuff like eating poison and partaking life endangering activities - don't do that for best longevity )
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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Thanks DeDukshyn . . . I'll drink to that!
    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light!

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)
    Thanks DeDukshyn . . . I'll drink to that!
    I will as well!
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    "healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study" major study? no thank you. Alcohol is good for my health in correct amount and right time

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Basic summary extracted from the text: Emphasis mine.

    Quote Not only did the data in the paper not support a zero drinks recommendation, but the authors were also guilty of doing what too many nutrition researchers do: They used definitive, causal language to talk about studies that are only correlational. That’s something Ioannidis, a longtime critic of nutrition science, recently called out as a major source of confusion for the public. In a new paper, he argues that the field of nutritional epidemiology is in need of radical reform.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Basic summary extracted from the text: Emphasis mine.

    Quote Not only did the data in the paper not support a zero drinks recommendation, but the authors were also guilty of doing what too many nutrition researchers do: They used definitive, causal language to talk about studies that are only correlational. That’s something Ioannidis, a longtime critic of nutrition science, recently called out as a major source of confusion for the public. In a new paper, he argues that the field of nutritional epidemiology is in need of radical reform.
    I added a couple of links back into this key quote. From the second of those links, "longtime critic of nutrition science", comes this further explanation of the work of loannidis:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    John Ioannidis has dedicated his life to quantifying how science is broken

    By Julia Belluz@juliaoftoronto Feb 16, 2015, 9:10am EST

    Medical research is in bad shape. Fraud, bias, sloppiness, and inefficiency are everywhere, and we now have studies that quantify the size of the problem.

    We know that about $200 billion — or the equivalent of 85 percent of global spending on research — is routinely wasted on poorly designed and redundant studies. We know that as much as 30 percent of the most influential original medical research papers later turn out to be wrong or exaggerated. We also know that a lot of medical evidence is contradictory and unreliable, such as those studies that purport to show that just about every food we eat either causes or prevents cancer.

    What all this means, says Stanford University professor Dr. John Ioannidis, is that most published research findings are false.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Three cheers for Paul .

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    It's always about the papers. How many papers have you authored? How high can I get in a department so that every paper authored also has my name on it? Peer reviewed by peers who are biased by how many papers their peers have authored.

    The whole system is designed to prop itself up, enriching only the authors of all the papers and making their lives cushy.

    It's an insane system.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by pyrangello (here)
    My great aunt who is now passed at the age of 84 drank a pint of kesslers whiskey everyday and smoked a pack of camel cigarettes everyday too for 45 years. If anything I would say that woman was preserved, lots of fond memories of my aunt. If anything she did it her way!

    As for me , making my homemade wine is always a challenge and very rewarding at the end of the day .
    My 88 year-old mother has smoked and drank alcohol, a hi-ball she likes to call it, for about 70 years. She has cut back on smoking, but still enjoys a few hi-balls (bourbon and 7-up or ginger ale) regularly.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Basic summary extracted from the text: Emphasis mine.

    Quote Not only did the data in the paper not support a zero drinks recommendation, but the authors were also guilty of doing what too many nutrition researchers do: They used definitive, causal language to talk about studies that are only correlational. That’s something Ioannidis, a longtime critic of nutrition science, recently called out as a major source of confusion for the public. In a new paper, he argues that the field of nutritional epidemiology is in need of radical reform.
    I added a couple of links back into this key quote. From the second of those links, "longtime critic of nutrition science", comes this further explanation of the work of loannidis:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    John Ioannidis has dedicated his life to quantifying how science is broken

    By Julia Belluz@juliaoftoronto Feb 16, 2015, 9:10am EST

    Medical research is in bad shape. Fraud, bias, sloppiness, and inefficiency are everywhere, and we now have studies that quantify the size of the problem.

    We know that about $200 billion — or the equivalent of 85 percent of global spending on research — is routinely wasted on poorly designed and redundant studies. We know that as much as 30 percent of the most influential original medical research papers later turn out to be wrong or exaggerated. We also know that a lot of medical evidence is contradictory and unreliable, such as those studies that purport to show that just about every food we eat either causes or prevents cancer.

    What all this means, says Stanford University professor Dr. John Ioannidis, is that most published research findings are false.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Totally agree. Always, always follow the money....

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    This Neville Goddard talk is about his teacher and using his imagination. At about 8:30, the discussion goes into the discussion of alcohol.

    His teacher consumes a lot of alcohol. He says everything is God. But he tells Neville, it would be poison to you because you have quibbles.



    "As you believe, so it is done unto you."

    Get rid of the quibbles and be free!

    MM
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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    My 88 year-old mother has smoked and drank alcohol, a hi-ball she likes to call it, for about 70 years. She has cut back on smoking, but still enjoys a few hi-balls (bourbon and 7-up or ginger ale) regularly.
    Conversely, my 98 year old grandpa has been extremely religiously avoiding intoxicants of any type due to his belief system.

    anecdotes are anecdotes. it is extremely hard to predict mass behavior based on single incidences. Even though I agree with your conclusion, I think it is important to note that it's validity is less than minimal, yet we as humans respond to that type of stimuli so readily....

    my advice? I dunno, draw your own conclusion
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    It is incredibly frustrating to read popularized articles written by pseudoscientists, examine the actual research journal, and realize that the media is making one logical leap after another. Just taking the ball and running with it!

    As Paul, Dedukshyn, and others have pointed out, this is correlational research. However, correlation is not equivalent to cause.

    There are so many variables that go unmeasured in a single research study, let alone a whole group of studies across multiple countries. The appropriate thing to do would be to repeat the study design using slightly different methods and slightly different variables. Perhaps within a much shorter period of time. What would the 10 year outcome be, for instance?

    That being said, to be fair, there is extremely useful information that comes out of some research articles. This would be studies that have a clear cutoff, such as determining the lethal dose of certain supplements, or the toxicity of certain chemicals.
    Last edited by Joe from the Carolinas; 1st September 2018 at 08:08.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Everybody is different... one person's "meat" is another's poison

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    I say if you are gonna drink something make sure its the 'good stuff' be it beer, wine or liquor.
    Cheap booze gives a cheap high and many times bad behavior, in fact I've seen it too often with 'bad spirits'. Now we have
    to wonder why its been called spirits in the first place and it wasn't per chance its called that.

    I find its important that the source of the water is important on your selection of your beverage as is the quality of the hops such as beer.
    There are reasons why it makes a difference in your buzz.
    Moderation by all means.

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