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    Avalon Member leavesoftrees's Avatar
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    Default Anyone like John Dee?

    Jason Louv, has written an book on John Dee called "John Dee and the Empire of Angels".

    Here is an excellent interview where he discusses the Elizabethan World, Hermetics, how Dee influenced the rise of the English and American empires, and much more

    https://www.occulturepodcast.com/arc...els-jason-louv

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    I'm on the fence about Dee and will certainly have a listen.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Sure, he was an interesting perhaps pivotal figure who conjured the "Enochian Keys" which were later re-written by Anton La Vey, mostly substituting "flesh" where Dee had "most high god".

    In his time there was no difference between Natural Philosophy and Science, which continued through at least Isaac Newton, who was an alchemist. We tend to have a distorted view since calculus was carefully peeled away from everything else he did.

    But with Dee, yes, the era in which England gained the upper hand over Spain, which largely fixed the playing board from then until now.

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by leavesoftrees (here)
    Jason Louv, has written an book on John Dee called "John Dee and the Empire of Angels".

    Here is an excellent interview where he discusses the Elizabethan World, Hermetics, how Dee influenced the rise of the English and American empires, and much more

    https://www.occulturepodcast.com/arc...els-jason-louv

    That link took me to a page that offered nothing but a paywall.

    I found this Higherside Chats interview with Jason Louv instead. I haven't listened to it yet.




    Alright Higherside Chatters, the further down we go, the more convinced I am that magic remains the missing spoke in the wheel of not only history, but life itself. Because you can’t properly assess the Elizabethan Era, the Founding of America, the Rocketry program, the tech revolution, or many of the other aspects of what got us here today – without understanding that magic played a major roll. Not to mention the important roll of magic in the East, and well as the cultures that weren’t trampled by the Cross. Because we still see magical thinking and believe systems in the most hard to reach corners of this island Earth.

    All of this speaks of a body of knowledge and thought that I’d like to better understand- as well as the people who explored it to it’s deepest, sometimes darkest, depths. Of these figures, there are few, if any, that have been more impactful than Queen Elizabeth I’s court adviser and astrologer – John Dee; as most of the magical characters and secret orders we know today- have all been heavily influenced by the Enochian system that Dee and Ed Kelley were handed down from on High.

    Luckily today’s guest Jason Louv knows quite a bit about the situation as he’s just released a massive book entitled John Dee and the Empire of Angels: Enochain Magic and the Occult Roots of the Modern World which clocks in at just over 500 pages when it’s all said and done. It’s a wonder Jason hasn’t been here before, as he definitely been a popular guy in the magical resurgence for quite some time- having written several other books with titles like: Generation Hex, Hyperworlds, Underworlds, and Monsanto vs. the World.

    He also runs the popular website Ultraculture.org and also teaches classes on magic and spirituality at Magick.me A modern magus of the Great Work, an esoteric adventurer extraordinaire’, and the glass pyramid of podcast guests – Jason Louv
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    haven't read book but if my gleaned sources are correct John Dee was definitely an insider in the very least due to insider knowledge of alchemy and astrology-

    not to mention history-

    Dee supposedly had an obsidian stone which he believed came from N. America thanks to the so-called legend of Prince Madoc of Wales (ca. 350 A.D: if sources are correct); according to former accounts (no, not conventional history) Madoc, due to strife in Wales at the time, sailed with a fleet of ships to N. America, let people off, sailed back to Wales, took on more passengers then sailed back to N. America- permanently-

    long story short: once the Mandan tribe in N. Dakota was officially discovered by the Lewis & Clark expedition they discovered their language bore many similarities to...

    Welsh-

    if one is interessted in this topic do read book "The Suppressed History of Amerca" by Paul Schrag/Xaviant Haze dealing with the mysterious discoveries of the Lewis & Clark expedition- foreward to book is by Michael Tsarion-

    Larry
    Last edited by Cardillac; 27th August 2018 at 21:02.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Interesting, Norman, I can get it here. Will listen to the one you posted as well!

    Thanks, leavesoftree! A most interesting subject.....to say the least!

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Natural Philosophy was the commonly-accepted term for what we would call magic. There were no old scientists who were not Natural Philosophers, even Newton was one.

    This started to change when Newton's calculus was lifted from his other work and used to fight the ideas of Leibiniz and later to quash the full set of Maxwell's Quarternion equations which are here on Avalon. Far from, say, only Tesla's stuff being hidden or stolen or whatever, this whole ploy reaches into around the 1600s when they invented "dead science", or the school that says matter is not alive and consciousness is a strange random chemical equation.

    Dee's Enoch is from the biblical apocrypha--again, just a little clue that people of that era killed and packaged the knowledge of their time in a dim, limited view. Really, the same hand, that of Aristotle, started the Dark Age and then in the industrial revolution, started this Scientific Dark Age about dead matter. So then it portrays existence as being made of an all-powerful god "somewhere" and random dead matter that you can see, whereas, this is the antithesis of the magical view of Pan or Levi's Baphomet which says that nature is all there is, it is alive, and there is no god separate or apart from it, or "ruling over" something he is not connected to. This is why magic is totally against churches and dead science--Natural Philosophy.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    John Dee: Scholar Courtier Magician - Video tour and interview by Gordon White of Rune Soup

    ''I was lucky enough to be shown around the Royal College of Physicians' John Dee exhibit in mid-January 2016.''






    The mystical objects of John Dee at the exhibition




    John Dee's scrying mirror


    Scrying is one of the best known forms of divination, and can be done in a variety of ways. Basically, it's the practice of looking into some sort of reflective surface—such as water, fire, glass, dark stones, etc.—to see what messages, symbols, or visions may appear.


    The Claude glass, a device consisting of a black glass mirror stored in a sharkskin case, is thought to have once belonged to John Dee. A Claude glass was normally used by artists, travelers and connoisseurs of landscape. It is named after the artist Claude Lorrain (1600–1682), a 17th Century landscape painter whose name is synonymous with the artistic movement. It is believed that Dee used his Claude glass as a crystal ball to look into the future







    John Dee’s crystal is a clear cut purple crystal attached to a chain and ring. Dee claimed that the crystal was given to him by angel Uriel in 1582 who instructed him and his assistant Edward Kelley (1555–1597/8) on how to make the philosophers stone, every alchemist’s ultimate goal. He believed that he had an ability to contact angels and spirits and claimed that angels had dictated several books to him. This crystal was passed down to Dee’s son, Arthur Dee (1597–1651), who gave it to Nicholas Culpeper (1616–1654) as a reward for curing his liver illness. Culpeper was a physician and an alchemist who used it to cure illnesses until 1651, when he claimed a demonic ghost emerged from it



    https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/mys...jects-john-dee
    Last edited by ichingcarpenter; 29th August 2018 at 15:53.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    http://www.unimedliving.com/ageless-.../john-dee.html

    Quote Dee taught that there is a rich lineage of wisdom and sages that stretches right the way back through the annals of time, and of which Christianity is but a chapter. He knew about Hermes and the Egyptian magicians, about the Persians and their Magi; he revered Plato and his system of Platonic philosophy, the Neo-Platonists of Alexandria, and the great wisdom of the Arab world, which had continued Plato’s legacy and identified it as in line with their own sacred traditions; he also knew about the great English philosopher and scientist Roger Bacon.

    Upon reading Dee’s works, one thing becomes very clear: Dee drew no distinctions between his mathematical and scientific work, and the great body of wisdom and philosophy of which he was an adept. For Dee they were one and the same, and they fitted within an all-encompassing understanding of the Universe. Dee was a true Pythagorean and he had an innate understanding of Esoteric Numerology. He knew that numbers are the building blocks of the Universe, and that they are also Divine; and that therefore a mathematical understanding of the Universe can reveal to us much about life, and about Man and his place in the Universe. Dee was also aware of Copernicus’ teachings on the heliocentric theory, a model to which he subscribed.

    "Numbering, then, was his creating of all things. And his continual numbering of all things is the conservation of them in being… The constant law of numbers… is planted in things natural and supernatural and is prescribed to all creatures, inviolably to be kept."
    John Dee[1]
    During his time in England, Dee was offered a post at Oxford University as Professor of Mathematics. But he declined, as he knew that the university environment would be restricting and would not allow him the space and freedom to follow his innate convictions through to their conclusions, and to teach Mathematics in its truth, as he understood it.

    However, he was equally becoming frustrated with peoples’ misunderstanding of him, and their hurling slanderous accusations at him: and of the Queen’s non-commitment and continual offerings of positions, titles and financial rewards to him, which she never followed through on. Dee felt he was not valued in his own country.

    In 1583, Dee packed up a large proportion of his books and collection of scientific and mathematical instruments and with his family, set sail for the continent, in what would become a six-year journey throughout Europe. Dee was welcomed by kings, princes and noblemen across Europe, where he took up temporary residence at their courts. There he taught the Ageless Wisdom to the aristocracy of Europe, and taught to anybody who was willing to listen the Divine potential in man, and the use of Alchemy to transmute Man back into his true, Divine state.

    He tapped into and taught about a system that was to aid Man in his journey back to Soul – a Science we know today as the Science of Initiation.

    Along his travels, Dee was offered many permanent positions in courts across Europe, as he had been during his previous travels across Europe as a young man. These included at the courts of King Henry II of France, a succession of four Holy Roman Emperors, and an incredibly lucrative position at the court of Feodor I, the Czar of Russia. But Dee turned them all down, as he knew they were not in-line with his true purpose, and when the time came he moved on to his next destination, carrying on the work that was so important to him.

    He inevitably attracted the attention of the Catholic Church. Whilst in Prague, he had an audience at the court of the Holy Roman Emperor, Rudolph II. Dee told Rudolph that he was possessed by an evil spirit, and encouraged him to renounce the error of his ways, and embrace the one, true Religious way. Needless to say, Dee was promptly ejected from the Emperor’s court. After this, Pope Sixtus V sent a papal nuncio to meet with Dee: Dee was forthright with the nuncio about his teachings and about the work he was doing, and whilst the nuncio was polite and seemingly accepting of Dee in his presence, on his return to Rome he denounced him as a heretic to the Pope. Dee gained word of his unwelcome reception in Rome, and subsequently amended his journey to avoid Italy. If he had come anywhere close to Rome, it is likely he would have been denounced by the Inquisition and sentenced to death.

    Dee grew weary on his travels, frustrated that the world was not ‘getting’ what he had to teach, nor embracing the one, true philosophy of the ages; and his return to England gave him more cause for grief. Upon returning to his home in Mortlake, Dee found his library had been ransacked and many of his books and scientific and mathematical instruments had been stolen. Added to this, he returned to an England that had been turned against him by the Church, hostile towards him and suspicious of his esoteric activities.

    The ignorance of the many was fed by the jealousy of the few, and behind this was the controlling intent of the church, which did not want the world to know what Dee had to teach it.

    Elizabeth also had distanced herself from Dee in the intervening years; she had her own reputation to protect, and she effectively abandoned him to the onslaught of the accusations and slanders that haunted Dee.*The lies that emerged around Dee were based on the accusation that he was a ‘black magician’ – a sorcerer who was in league with the Devil and evil spirits. This was a common stereotype of the Elizabethan imagination – an image fed to the masses to stir up fear and trepidation. It was of course an absolute lie and the very, calculated opposite of the Truth that Dee stood for and represented. It is around this time that Christopher Marlowe staged his play Doctor Faustus, about the dangers and moral transgressions of the man who supersedes his station in life to dabble in black magic, eventually making a pact with the Devil. The implied, defamatory reference to Dee was clear to see. A few decades later, shortly after Dee had died, Ben Jonson wrote and staged The Alchemist, which pokes fun at the figure of the Renaissance magus, who is represented as a ‘quack’ that cheats unknowing people out of their money. In the play, Dee is directly named, and his Monas Hierogliphica held up for ridicule. Shakespeare wrote and staged The Tempest – a play whose main character, Prospero, is long thought to have been inspired by Dee – shortly after this, and it can be seen in part as a response to Jonson and Marlowe, and a restoring of Dee’s name and reputation in the popular imagination.

    In 1595, the Queen eventually granted Dee a position as Warden of Christ College in Manchester – a position that he held for the next ten years.

    In 1604, when Elizabeth died and James I took the throne, Dee petitioned the new King to put him on trial for the slanderous accusations thrown about by his detractors, so that he could be found to be innocent of any association with ‘black magic’, and his name to be cleared. This request in itself was a bold move: James I was renowned for his deep-seated anxiety about witchcraft, and if he had been in any way suspicious of Dee, this would have been his death wish. But Dee’s request was refused, he was denied a trial, and the slanderous accusations continued.

    In 1605, Dee returned to Mortlake where he spent the remaining years of his life living in poverty and public disgrace. All of his eight children, but two, had died during childhood, and with his wife gone, he had only his daughter Katherine to nurse him in his old age. His remaining son, Arthur, would become an alchemist, and go on to take up a position in the court of the Tsar of Russia – a position which Dee himself had declined – as personal physician to Michael I. In these final years, financial pressures forced Dee to sell off what remained of his once-great library.

    Over his lifetime, Dee took his public detractors and their slanderous accusations very personally, and they broke him.

    He had transfixed all his energies on the realisation of an image – the hailing of a new world order, guided by the one true, Hermetic philosophy – and it crushed him to see that the world was turning its back on this and instead delving deeper into a controlled form of education and closed-mindedness to the universal nature of life and all things.

    Dee worked tirelessly throughout his life, in service to people and the fulfilment of God’s plan on Earth; but ultimately he lacked the self-appreciation and the Stillness within himself to understand that people’s actions and reactions were not a reflection on him or any failing on his part, but rather were an expression of their own Free Will. Dee was caught by his desire for people to be free and know the greater wisdoms that he knew, rather than truly valuing his efforts for presenting them, and allowing people the Grace of their own Free Will to come to know it in their own time.
    In the above context, I rather like him.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Thanks for that, Val! Kind of fills in more pieces!

    I have spent the day with John Dee & it is a shame he was written out of history; kind if like Annie Besant was also written out.

    The jaw dropper for me was how he was given a NWO plan by the "angel" Michael, who also gave him the phrase "British Empire"! HUH?!

    These people in this day & age who have been trying to bring in a NWO must be under the influence of the same "angel"! Does nothing ever change?!!!!

    The British Empire came into existence, but Dee never got the credit for the originating idea! Whoever ruled the seas in those days, ruled the world. Now....it's whoever rules the "seas" of space....so I'm thinking the U.S. might still be ahead in that area because of the SSP.
    I guess we will find out, won't we?!

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
    Thanks for that, Val! Kind of fills in more pieces!

    I have spent the day with John Dee & it is a shame he was written out of history; kind if like Annie Besant was also written out.

    The jaw dropper for me was how he was given a NWO plan by the "angel" Michael, who also gave him the phrase "British Empire"! HUH?!

    These people in this day & age who have been trying to bring in a NWO must be under the influence of the same "angel"! Does nothing ever change?!!!!

    The British Empire came into existence, but Dee never got the credit for the originating idea! Whoever ruled the seas in those days, ruled the world. Now....it's whoever rules the "seas" of space....so I'm thinking the U.S. might still be ahead in that area because of the SSP.
    I guess we will find out, won't we?!

    Do I hear voices admiring the guy then ?

    I will have to dig back into him and expand my grasp of what he was all about.

    Although it came along a little later than his prime of life, I've assumed he was the brains or at least the godfather of the origin of the raw basic model that is still used today by the intelligence network through from the East India Company, British SS and American core agencies. The model is well described by Catherin Fitts. To control the lowest common factors and get all the dirt on eveybody through it. That's drugs and vice etc. Catherine expands on that and talks about the economic takeover aspect of it. Spies, drug runners and bankers, hah . . . they've always been soul mates.

    Well, point is, I thought it all came from John Dee. Am I wrong about that ?
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Norman, I have read about Dee from time to time and have many books on Queen Elizabeth, in which he is discussed. I always kind of thought he was a cool guy, until I went through the targeting and began to realize that magic was real and could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

    I have never heard what you stated above about him, though. I'd have to look into it more.

    So, then I read some more about him and got a little spooked when I read about him and Kelley conjuring up angels with rituals. I just don't think anyone should be "conjuring" anything.

    However, like Foxie, I read the above and thought, well who knows? Based on the above, he seems to have had a genuine interest in helping.

    Perhaps it's like my great-grandfather the hypnotist. He thought he was doing good but maybe didn't entirely understand that sort of knowledge could be used for nefarious purposes.

    Dee is certainly interesting. All those Elizabethan characters are. Sir Francis Bacon, et al.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Norman....for me this isn't about admiring anybody, I was just shocked that the same "angel" has still been influencing world politics today!(NWO)

    It seems to be the same story over & over & over here on this planet! It was interesting to see how Jason Louv came to the same conclusions, after his years of study, that I have come to after being exposed to all the ideas here on Avalon.

    The future is not written in stone, we humans have Free Will to help write our own future! Louv is very correct in his assessment about the Bible Belt mentality of Christian evangelicals; by their gloom & doom Book of Revelation belief, they are intending for that to happen. I can speak about all this because that is what I came out of!

    Many books about Revelation have been written with differing views. I have listened to preachers arguing about how "the events" will play out! My personal opinion.....Christianity is one of the most clever hoaxes played upon humanity as a means of keeping them enslaved without knowing it!! I do not mean to be offensive to any belief system from which others derive comfort.

    I keep telling my own children that! They all think their poor Mother has really gone off the tracks & are praying she will return to the Truth. The brainwashing I gave them really took!

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)


    The brainwashing I gave them really took!


    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    my library
    Shakespeare play 'the tempest' the main character in the play, Prospero, was inspired by John Dee... BTW one of favorite plays


    Prospero is the rightful Duke of Milan, but has been deposed by his brother Antonio. He has taken refuge on a remote island, where he has remained for 12 years prior to the beginning of the play. Books, it emerges, have played a significant part in his downfall. As Duke of Milan, Prospero explains, he became ‘rapt in secret studies’ and allowed his deceitful brother to achieve undue power and influence.

    The play begins when a ship containing Antonio and his entourage sails close to Prospero’s island. Prospero uses his powers of magic and illusion to shipwreck the vessel, punish his adversaries, and regain his dukedom. He achieves this by means of a familiar spirit, called Ariel, who performs magical acts according to Prospero’s instructions.


    Like the fictional wizard, Dee immersed himself in a vast library, suffered a grave misfortune (in Dee’s case, theft of his books rather than exile) and believed that he could summon spirits.

    In reading The tempest, it’s easy to draw a connection between the character of Prospero and the historical figure of Dee. In act I, scene ii, Prospero states that he cared about his library above all else:


    Was dukedom large enough.

    He describes how, following his exile, his servant Gonzalo had come to his aid:

    Knowing I loved my books, he furnish'd me

    From mine own library with volumes that

    I prize above my dukedom.


    Dee was the epitome of a Renaissance polymath, someone interested in and expert in almost every branch of knowledge. Dee’s studies included mathematics, astrology, astronomy, alchemy, history, theology, philosophy, cryptography and magic. He was also an extraordinary book collector, amassing as many as 3,000 printed books and 1,000 manuscripts in his home at Mortlake, on the river Thames, near London.

    John Dee cared deeply about his own library, even suggesting to Mary I in 1556 that his collection might form the base of a new national library. His was deeply upset after his library was ransacked, and many books stolen, during the 1580s.

    In The tempest (III:ii), Caliban notes that Prospero’s library is the source of his power:

    Remember

    First to possess his books; for without them

    He's but a sot, as I am, nor hath not

    One spirit to command.



    https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/rap...pired-john-dee
    Last edited by ichingcarpenter; 30th August 2018 at 19:00.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    iching, I am stunned. What a beautiful synopsis. I did not know, though I knew somewhere of the connection of "The Tempest". And the rest of "that" crew.

    I feel like I need to read that, but with some guidance from someone coming from a place of REAL knowledge.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Although it came along a little later than his prime of life, I've assumed he was the brains or at least the godfather of the origin of the raw basic model that is still used today by the intelligence network through from the East India Company, British SS and American core agencies. The model is well described by Catherin Fitts. To control the lowest common factors and get all the dirt on eveybody through it. That's drugs and vice etc. Catherine expands on that and talks about the economic takeover aspect of it. Spies, drug runners and bankers, hah . . . they've always been soul mates.

    Well, point is, I thought it all came from John Dee. Am I wrong about that ?
    I would say it came from the Netherlands. Before England's rise, the Dutch Empire and Dutch East India Company (origin of the stock market) were the wealthiest organizations to be found. Basis of the Bank of England shortly thereafter.

    British hegemony may have been more inspired by people such as the West Country men including Francis Drake, whose capture of a Spanish treasure train in Panama was a major turning point.

    The British Parliament as a whole was always against fighting contraband, slavery, etc., since most of its members were involved in those kinds of things.

    Dee, or, more particularly, Kelley's, scrying, is not necessarily the most accurate or final word on things; but we may note in dealing with Uriel, Michael, etc., these are the Elohim, really the sacred planets, something stolen, misappropriated, and re-written by monotheists.

    Alchemists generally were in the unfortunate position of needing to sell Philosopher's Stone "turns lead to gold" for kings, which is not the real one, which is the marriage of earthly and heavenly essences. It is very tricky because their language is a veil over another veil, but even Shakespeare understood things like "eye of newt" = mustard seed. In those times, most any "alternative" teaching had to be concealed anonymously, or written with Christian tones, since people loved burning books and other people. Nobody could come out and say: "Christianity is one of the most clever hoaxes played upon humanity as a means of keeping them enslaved without knowing it!!"

    News traveled slow, and folks were not immediately aware of what "Saint" Cyril did to Hypatia and Nestorius, but he pretty much launched your Dark Age there. It had been waiting in the wings for a while, but this was a really big bite.

    Not sure I would encourage anyone to scry, conjure, channel, etc., the Elohim; instead, we would place you face to face with them in personal experience. If Europe even has a manuscript on this, it is buried in the Vatican. If Dee could do it, he would not have needed forced, mechanical methods. Enoch--Idris did it the pure way and was the inspiration to Moses and the Jubilees, which, a Jubilee is supposed to be part and parcel of Christianity as well as the U. S. country, but everyone would just tell you it's a thing of the past now, apocryphal, non-canonical...just stuff Enoch in a closet and let's beatify Cyril.

    So for Dee to even attempt a sort of understudy of Enoch and the Elohim, to the extent he could, was exceptionally radical. If Hermetics had actually taken hold then, it would have been a much different "world order" than the English--Catholic shenanigans which had Europe locked down and colonized everywhere else.

    If I could find, for instance, the War of 1812 as somehow ordered or dictated by Mr. Dee, that would be one thing, but it appears to be British reprisal for the U. S. refusing to renew a national bank charter. I don't think such a thing is really within the grasp of Hermetics, even though what we have today is a tiny fragment of about 36,000 Books of Hermes that were used in Egypt, these have been removed for safe keeping.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    iching, I am stunned. What a beautiful synopsis. I did not know, though I knew somewhere of the connection of "The Tempest". And the rest of "that" crew.

    I feel like I need to read that, but with some guidance from someone coming from a place of REAL knowledge.
    http://www.sparknotes.com/shakespear...-was-prospero/

    Who Was Prospero?

    Prospero, who abandons the world of fantasy to rejoin civilization, is one of Shakespeare’s most intriguing characters, and critics are divided over whether Prospero is based on a real person. Some critics have speculated that Shakespeare modeled Prospero on John Dee, a famous Englishman who had devoted himself to alchemy and occult philosophy, and who served as an advisor to Queen Elizabeth. Like Prospero, Dee valued his library above almost everything else, and hoped to use it to form a new national library. In the 1580s many of Dee’s books were stolen, just as Caliban suggests stealing Prospero’s books, in order to reduce his power: “Remember / First to possess his books; for without them / He’s but a sot…” (III.ii.) Also like Prospero, Dee believed he could communicate with the spirit world. He recorded his “angelic conversations,” and believed he received mysteries of the universe from the spirit world.

    Another possible model for Prospero is Rudolf II, a Holy Roman Emperor who had a reputation for neglecting his duties to pursue his studies of the occult. Also, similar to Prospero (and John Dee), Rudolf was devoted to his library, which his family felt added to his inability to effectively govern. In The Tempest, Prospero admits that he neglected his duties as duke in favor of his books: “I, thus neglecting worldly ends, all dedicated / To closeness and the bettering of my mind” (I.ii). At the of the 1610s, after a long and indecisive war with the Ottoman Empire, Rudolf’s brother Matthias conspired against him, and by 1611 Matthias had assumed all of Rudolf’s power. These events are echoed in Prospero’s backstory of betrayal by his brother, Antonio, who attempts to assassinate him and take over his rule of Milan. Like Prospero, Rudolf II was a ruler whose interest in the occult and matters of the mind made him vulnerable to betrayal by his family.

    The third model for Prospero may be much closer to home than Rudolf II or John Dee: Shakespeare himself. The Tempest marks the last play that Shakespeare wrote by himself, and as such, represents a sort of farewell to his audience. Just as Prospero puts aside magic in the final scenes of the play and prepares for a peaceful retirement, so Shakespeare may have used the play as a way to say goodbye to the theater. The play contains many allusions to theatricality, such as when Prospero says: “Our revels are now ended. These our actors / As I foretold you, were all spirits and / Are melted into air, into thin air” (IV.i.) In this speech, Prospero is basically saying the show is over. He also references “the great globe itself,” possibly a nod to the Globe Theatre, where Shakespeare’s plays were performed. In the play’s epilogue, Prospero references his decision to surrender his power, saying, “Now my charms are all o’erthrown…” He begs the audience to release him from captivity on the island by clapping, much as an audience’s applause signals the end of the play. In this sense, Shakespeare may be pleading with his own audience to let him retire peacefully, asking them to “let your indulgence set me free.”

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by leavesoftrees (here)
    Jason Louv, has written an book on John Dee called "John Dee and the Empire of Angels".

    Here is an excellent interview where he discusses the Elizabethan World, Hermetics, how Dee influenced the rise of the English and American empires, and much more

    https://www.occulturepodcast.com/arc...els-jason-louv
    Actually, I really do love the title of this thread. A warm smile creeps across my face while reading it And it's given me a taste --- has whetted the appetite --- to revisit this quite fascinating man.

    Having dipped my feet into the Sea of Dee before now I can confidently assert that I like and admire the great knowledge that he possessed and acquired, both in abundant equal measure I should imagine. Further, his influence on Francis Bacon and the school of 'Shake-speare' is another fascinating avenue very worthy of exploration too.

    One can also be very certain that his 'magical' influence and whatever entities may also be involved are absolutely still employed today, and the effects, mainly negative unfortunately, of that a major catalyst behind the shape of the times we are in.

    So, I know that I don't like that!

    How this wisdom has been appropriated by others privy to it is a topic for discussion by itself.

    Thank you
    Last edited by Tintin; 30th August 2018 at 12:49.
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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
    Thanks for that, Val! Kind of fills in more pieces!

    I have spent the day with John Dee & it is a shame he was written out of history; kind if like Annie Besant was also written out.

    The jaw dropper for me was how he was given a NWO plan by the "angel" Michael, who also gave him the phrase "British Empire"! HUH?!

    These people in this day & age who have been trying to bring in a NWO must be under the influence of the same "angel"! Does nothing ever change?!!!!

    The British Empire came into existence, but Dee never got the credit for the originating idea! Whoever ruled the seas in those days, ruled the world. Now....it's whoever rules the "seas" of space....so I'm thinking the U.S. might still be ahead in that area because of the SSP.
    I guess we will find out, won't we?!

    Do I hear voices admiring the guy then ?

    I will have to dig back into him and expand my grasp of what he was all about.

    Although it came along a little later than his prime of life, I've assumed he was the brains or at least the godfather of the origin of the raw basic model that is still used today by the intelligence network through from the East India Company, British SS and American core agencies. The model is well described by Catherin Fitts. To control the lowest common factors and get all the dirt on eveybody through it. That's drugs and vice etc. Catherine expands on that and talks about the economic takeover aspect of it. Spies, drug runners and bankers, hah . . . they've always been soul mates.

    Well, point is, I thought it all came from John Dee. Am I wrong about that ?
    Yes, he has, with much evidence to support it, been accredited with the model for the modern SIS/intelligence services, so, you aren't wrong necessarily at all Norman. (Note to self: I'll need to resource from my archives of texts some reference material here.)

    John Hughes Wilson's book: "The Puppet Masters" does delve back a lot further into the history of intelligence - a particularly interesting piece in that book covers Crassus (I think 2nd or 3rd century Roman) and his 'fire brigades'.

    JHW has mentored my brother who's in the UK military, in intelligence, and also went to school with my father although I am not certain that they were properly acquainted but in the same year.

    He's an interesting character himself.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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