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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)

    John Hughes Wilson's book: "The Puppet Masters" does delve back a lot further into the history of intelligence - a particularly interesting piece in that book covers Crassus (I think 2nd or 3rd century Roman) and his 'fire brigades'.

    JHW has mentored my brother who's in the UK military, in intelligence, and also went to school with my father although I am not certain that they were properly acquainted but in the same year.

    He's an interesting character himself.

    I've just ordered a used copy of the puppet masters book from amazon. Reading it will be a chore though. I much prefer a few audio interviews with the authors of books than actually reading them. My natural inclination is to skim and amalgamate broadly.
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    From what I have read, Sir Francis Walsingham was the one who was the master at intelligence gathering for Queen Elizabeth, using the same methods being used today by _intelligence agencies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Walsingham

    I ordered the book, "John Dee and the Empire of Angels" by Jason Louv, who is featured in Norman's post above. I'm beginning to suspect there is more in that period of history than meets the glass darkly eye.

    There is a confusing mass of impressions I gleaned from that era and those characters. Important impressions.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Thanks, everyone! This has all been MOST interesting!

    One thing that Jason Louv points out that seems quite true down through the ages is that "the spirit world is as chaotic as the human world".

    Apparently, various 'beings' have always been trying to influence mankind for various purposes. What blew my mind was the exact same phrase was given to John Dee by "Michael"....a New World Order! Where have we heard that before?!!

    Looks like I am going to be burned at the stake for the conclusions I have come to! Who will throw the first ember?

    So.....if an "angel" should appear to you, I guess the lesson is, don't get up tight about it! Stand in your own sovereignty & don't assume they know more than you do. Just assume they have an agenda of their own, which might not be in your own best interest! A few names come to mind....Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Joseph Smith, & the big 'M'.

    Enough of this Slavery.....Break out of the chains!

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    From what I have read, Sir Francis Walsingham was the one who was the master at intelligence gathering for Queen Elizabeth, using the same methods being used today by _intelligence agencies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Walsingham

    I ordered the book, "John Dee and the Empire of Angels" by Jason Louv, who is featured in Norman's post above. I'm beginning to suspect there is more in that period of history than meets the glass darkly eye.

    There is a confusing mass of impressions I gleaned from that era and those characters. Important impressions.
    Walsingham was probably the equivalent of, let's say Director of Said Intelligence agency, not necessarily the founder of it. On the payroll, and, doing his job.

    Propaganda being what it has always been, well, it would certainly be convenient to deflect 'source' away from actual source.

    'Intelligence' has been - and is still - oxymoronic in its interpretation. (*winks gently*)
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Edward Kelley was Dee’s s scryer. Here’s an interview talking about their work together

    .
    http://occultofpersonality.net/vincent-bridges/

    Vincent Bridges
    by Greg Kaminsky on June 13, 2014

    Podcast: Play in new window | Download
    Vincent Bridges (1952 – 2014), expert on Sir Edward Kelley and co-author of The Ophanic Revelation: Angelic Science and the End of Time – a unique book about Enochian Magick, is our guest in podcast episode 145.

    Vincent Bridges

    Author, esoteric historian, and researcher Vincent Bridges is the co-author of six books, and has been involved with several television documentaries on subjects ranging from Atlantis to the Holy Grail but primarily focused on Nostradamus. A self-proclaimed “anthropologist of the strange,” Bridges is an initiate of five major traditions: Buddhism, Islam, Gnostic Christianity, Wicca and Western Ceremonial Magick. He is also a pioneer in the field of psycho-acoustic therapy for early childhood trauma, was the first geomancer listed in Who’s Who in Service to the Earth, and was instrumental in the creation of three schools or educational organizations, The Fifth Way Mystnery School, The Newport Earth Institute in Newport, New Hampshire and Pendragon College. Bridges also organizes and leads tours to sacred sites in Southern France and the Czech Republic, and has led tours in the past to India, Tibet and Egypt. He currently lives in Prague, where he is also a consultant to an alchemical museum.

    Edward Kelley

    We begin the interview by reviewing the life and times of Sir Edward Kelley, including his alchemical activities. Bridges is endeavoring to write Kelley’s biography and resides in Kelley’s last known residence in Prague. Through his efforts, he just might rehabilitate Kelley’s reputation in the eyes of those who view him in only a negative light.

    Charles River Bridge in Prague

    Of course, we delve into Kelley’s work with John Dee and his visionary experiences. Bridges discusses The Ophanic Revelation, which may be the most unique book on the subject of Enochian that I’ve ever encountered.

    “Four hundred years ago, higher intelligence in the form of angels communicated a geometrical, symmetry-based, DNA-coded language pattern capable of producing a rapid expansion of consciousness and an increase in symbolic cognition. This shift in awareness – from a local primate-based consciousness to a much larger, universal, non-local reality – is based on what we now call plasma physics. The angels gifted us with this most unusual language system as a kind of life raft/survival radio set as they knew mankind would need a shift in consciousness to survive the precessionally timed apocalyptic season that now threatens to close in upon us. This book represents the first serious attempt to examine the angelic, or Ophanic, system given to Dr. John Dee from multiple viewpoints, using history, physics, biology, mathematics as well as art and sacred geometry to explore the unexpected depths of meaning and interconnection in this unique communication.”

    Vincent Bridges

    Although Bridges’ perspective is multidisciplinary and may be somewhat speculative, he has led a working group through the entire Enochian system over the course of two years with rather remarkable results. While certainly not a traditional viewpoint, Bridges’ conclusions seem to provide modern relevance that may have been previously unrecognized.

    Edward Kelley

    Whatever you may think of Bridges’ conclusions, which I perceive as being controversial, there is no doubt that a great deal of research went into his book. I found The Ophanic Revelation intriguing, and the sense of mystery and immediacy that it conveyed to be remarkable. I’d encourage those interested in learning more about this work to read some of the articles linked below from the Journal of the Western Mystery Tradition.

    Vincent Bridges passed unexpectedly less than a month after this interview was posted online. We extend our deepest sympathies to Vincent’s family and friends all over the world. He will be sorely missed, but not forgotten. His work and legacy lives on…

    Vincent Bridges

    In Memoriam: Vincent Bridges

    The Ophanic Revelation: Angelic Science and the End of Time by Vincent Bridges and DARLENE

    “Edward Kelley” Wikipedia entry

    “Reading the Green Language of Light” by Vincent Bridges

    “The Little Book of Black Venus and the Three-Fold Transformation of Hermetic Astrology” by Teresa Burns

    “Appendix II: Notes to Dee’s Monas Hieroglyphica” by Vincent Bridges

    “The Little Book of Black Venus attributed to John Dee” translated by Teresa Burns and Nancy Turner

    “The Little Book of Black Venus – Part Two: Olympic Spirits, the Cult of the Dark Goddess, and the Seal of Ameth” by Vincent Bridges and Teresa Burns

    “Angels in the DNA: The Emerald Modem and Dr. Dee’s Ophanic Language” by Vincent Bridges

    “The Ophanic Alphabet (Part Two): A Search For Meaning” by DARLENE

    “A Golden Storm: Attempting to Recreate the Context of John Dee and Edward Kelley’s Angelic Material” by Teresa Burns

    The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendaye: Alchemy and the End of Time By Jay Weidner and Vincent Bridges

    Arguing with Angels: Enochian Magic and Modern Occulture by Egil Asprem

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)

    Apparently, various 'beings' have always been trying to influence mankind for various purposes. What blew my mind was the exact same phrase was given to John Dee by "Michael"....a New World Order! Where have we heard that before?!!

    Looks like I am going to be burned at the stake for the conclusions I have come to! Who will throw the first ember?

    So.....if an "angel" should appear to you, I guess the lesson is, don't get up tight about it! Stand in your own sovereignty & don't assume they know more than you do. Just assume they have an agenda of their own, which might not be in your own best interest! A few names come to mind....Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Joseph Smith, & the big 'M'.
    Tossing embers is great. It's called shampooing. I'll just leave that there for the sake of confusion.

    What was the Old World Order? The pope, the Holy Roman Empire? Spanish one?

    We're talking about countries that were mostly covered in raw sewage until they learned otherwise from the Moorish occupation.

    After Moses, the problem really hits. Enoch could be considered a teacher, or, generally, the educated or initiated class, a Jewish term roughly equivalent to Idris, Orpheus, Thoth, Mercury, Hermes, or Zoroaster. Moses ("child"--i. e. child of the lineage), being similarly taught, however: his literature, or the Genesis, etc., passed from him, itself was severally redacted, or had parts taken out, others installed, a few times, until the last major redaction of Ezra--Second Temple period. The tribe, or tribes, associated with this, going through the same kind of mixed breeding, and destruction, until this Second Temple becoming a vehicle for Pharisees, meaning mostly non-Jewish Edomites, who had been allowed into Judea. You can look into it, but, by being over-run and inter-bred with Edom, according to their own ritual standards, that Judea and/or it's "pure" lineage, ceased to exist.

    So from Ezra, you get an Edomite Pharisee book that no longer contains the accurate legend of Moses, held by people who have no legitimate claim to the lineage. This would be Old Testament. And even that version wasn't really crystallized until the Masoretic version ca. year 600, which supplies vowels to the words.

    Enoch was the 7th Patriarch, who lived the unusual 365 years. Already, it is the same as Seven Elohim/Days of the Week (and year)...I mean, if anyone is perplexed about these guys they are the same in Latin or Germanic languages, for example Mercredi--Mercury's Day is Wednesday--Odin's Day, same thing, different language. The days of the week that we still use in all similar cultures are nothing but the Elohim, which, if you know how to count them properly, that gives us the order of the days.

    Although scripture is the ultimate muddle, Time is completely clear that it is organized by angels as governors of its various cycles. Unfortunately, from various mish-mashes of Enoch and Mani, the Fallen Angels have been altered from a basic natural fact into something "big and scary". One of the worst, vicious twists applied to the ancient literature, resulting in Armageddonism. The basis of mind or thought control is largely found here--maybe not really the basis, but the social engineering application of it.

    Micha-el, Uri-el, all those kinds of names refer to El, Elion, Sun. Pluralized--the Sun divided out into seven rays, the seven days--Elohim may perhaps be using the feminine equivalent, Eloah, with a masculine ending, -im, Alhim or aleph, lamed, heh, yod, mim: Alh + im from Hebrew. Therefor the "We" of Genesis is androgynous.

    Abraham, the First Patriarch, is Saturn, Father of the "gods".

    Joseph Smith doesn't really enter the list, as he refers to no part of nature such as the sun or time, but, instead, to some sad artificial final days thing--or is he the one that says dead people will climb out of their coffins--thanks to digging up the lost Gospel of New York.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Thank you, shaberon! In my simple way, I was referring to the fact that each of the ones listed believed what an "angel" had told them.

    Always enjoy your "educating" posts!

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Yes of course...you are pretty much spot on in saying that any "angelic" being in a crystal, a dream...or three thousand of them flying over a battlefield...really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. There are over 300 millions classes of such beings, many or most of whom are lower than, or lack the fullness of humanity. So, a lot of them can only bring a sort of one-dimensional message, possibly derived from them having no individual mind and being stuck in a life form that lasts as long as the universe.

    But, if that is true, then it must also be true that ones such as the Elohim exist, and in that regard, magic isn't really any different from Genesis, except in the explanation and meaning. And plausibly it would be identical, if the original or authentic method of Moses had been preserved, but, instead, it can pretty well be shown that it was raked over many times, and used to support man made institutions of the oppressive kind. Same with "the Nazarene", who was not really "from Nazareth", but Nazarean--Nasorean--Ebionite, who entered Egypt and became a Therapeutae, which is a healer. Known for twenty healing "miracles", the other five such as turning water to wine are mostly seen as allegorical by theologians, and not even accepted in many branches of the church.

    If someone is willing to walk into the worst part of a city, and personally help the sick, hungry, and homeless, then they could be considered a follower of that particular teacher, but not otherwise. And in truth, there are far more Jesuits who have done this kind of thing, than in any of the other branches. Their "control apparatus" is perfectly horrid, but the missions of many of the newer 1st/2nd degree adherents, are the only friend that some people ever have.

    On another look, the most influential person to Queen Elizabeth appears to be William Cecil, and since the queen was a bastard, it was impossible for her to run a Catholic regime. Therefor, for the third time in most of their lives, the English population was forced to switch religions.

    John Dee probably could not have functioned unless supportive of the pro-English, anti-Spanish maneuvers, so, even if he comes across as a bit close to New World Order or British Empire, it makes sense for the time it happened. It was really difficult to criticize the Old World Order unless you had something like a king who wanted an illegal divorce. He certainly was not an architect of the nefarious plot which pre-dated him, which was not English. As with most historical personalities, living mostly under tyranny which did not admit any other point of view, if they could chip away at one aspect of evil, or reveal a tiny little grain of truth, that's about all you can really expect from them. Like Thomas Jefferson continuing to keep slaves, I don't think that makes him a hypocrite, because the issue was political institutions; no one had really come forward to challenge slavery yet. Now that our knowledge base consists of "a challenge to everything", we are in a much different place from those who had limited information and could probably only join a singular "cause" if they could.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    When I was listening to the Vincent Bridges tape(Thank you, leavesoftrees!), the language of "angels" he was talking about made me think of Klaus Dona's discovery of a language he found which must have existed before the last great catastrophe. He found it inscribed on items in various parts of the world.

    This excursion into the world of John Dee has been most interesting! To understand past events one seems to have to enter into the mindset of that precise time period.

    Thanks all!

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    I, too, am experiencing a resurgence of interest in a subject I have spent many years reading about, but mostly in a historical context. I am beginning to think I am attracted to this time period BECAUSE it may have been a crucial turning point.

    This is one of a few time frames in history where an incredible flash of fine minds met at a certain place and time and had a real impact on the world we know today. A fine flash of fire.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    I, too, am experiencing a resurgence of interest in a subject I have spent many years reading about, but mostly in a historical context. I am beginning to think I am attracted to this time period BECAUSE it may have been a crucial turning point.

    This is one of a few time frames in history where an incredible flash of fine minds met at a certain place and time and had a real impact on the world we know today. A fine flash of fire.
    Giordano Bruno, John Dee, Robert Fludd, Jacob Boehme... the last of the Renaissance magi or the first of the Rosicrucians?

    It’s definitely one of my favourite eras; full of magic, awe, reverence and wonder!

    Francis Yates ”Rosicrucian Enlightenment” is a great read for putting Dee in the social context of the changes taking place — the infusion of oriental alchemy into the existing fires burning within the Hermetic and Kabbalah traditions that had already been smouldering away in Prague. Spiritual fireworks for the Renaissance philosophers to apply their art and reason around!

    ’How the Nation Was Won’ is a great follow on from Francis Yates book, although not quite as magical, it shows what happened next? How the ideals of the Rosicrucians put forth by Dee and the others in the 16th century led to the creation of the United States in the 17th.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Yes, Jayke, but what I am struggling with is this continuous mindset of nations instead of people; people's minds, their evolution, their evolving as whole human beings as it relates to evolution of us as God or whoever's creation. How did that place and those people happen and why?
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Original Rosicrucianism came from Christian Rosenkreuz in the Crusades, passed through almost all of the alchemists to John Dee, then Elias Ashmole, and then shortly thereafter went underground. Later societies bearing the name are disconnected reconstructions. The one I'm surprised has not come up yet is Golden Dawn, heavily inspired by Dee. It's mostly ceremonial magic and I have taken them to task and wind up not agreeing with them in several ways, even though it is based in the same literature.

    It gets quite dodgy because when taken up by new sets of hands who are untrained, everyone clamors for their five minutes of fame and tries to get rich, and if you look at the G. D. website even now, I believe on the very first page it tempts you with money and a new car.

    The real method--and I forget who I'm quoting here--is "To do good by stealth and blush at its discovery". Therefor, aside from the alchemists and court astrologers, most of the original Rosicrucians remain unknown. It was oriental, same as the Johannite "heresy" which is the real secret of the Templars, both groups having to shroud their orientalism in a visibly Christian format to avoid persecution. In this, we see that men of good morals also operate "behind the scenes" and would be just as involved with spycraft and other forms of secrecy and disguise as those of evil intent.

    The Elizabethan era was shortly after the Renaissance, meaning "rebirth", mostly thought of in terms of literature and art, but it was the rebirth of magic--the more humanist faction being inspired by Pico della Mirandola and the Florentine Medicis. He had discovered manuscripts sealed in a small town in Italy and was, plausibly, the singular cue for the whole ball of wax to get rolling, in public terms. The aim was to make literacy, health, etc., no longer a privilege of nobility, but available to the common person. If I had to pick a singular cause for widespread enlightenment, it would probably be him.

    That particular area didn't work out so good, the Medicis got trashed, and you can go out and find the accusations saying their descendants are still around and up to no good and so forth, but here's what happened to Medici power: they donated all their wealth to Tuscany. You won't find many nobles giving it all away to a state they no longer control.

    I think it was inevitable fallout to the Roman church. You don't find many other examples of a religious group crushing an entire continent for a millenium after having seized it by violence. They exterminated free speech and imposed thought control. If they were correct, then this would have been preserved, but with history at their back and the rest of the world surrounding them, their cycle came to an end. The major hand serving as the repository for all the church tried to crush is the Druze. The external actors who have attempted to inspire Europe with something besides its church for all these centuries are the Buddhists and the Druze. Non-violently, through open debate when possible, and if not, then by secret works, mostly indirectly by agents. No Druze will ever explain this, nor their religion, and you cannot go join them.

    Once the genie was out of the bottle, magic became incredibly popular for centuries; this is why Natural Philosophy was crippled and converted into the materialistic science of dead matter, to try to get rid of it again. There, you see the culmination of the original battle between the school of Plato (Natural Philosophy) and Aristotle (dead matter). Throughout the whole ordeal, it has always been basically the followers of Aristotle who implement all the programs that mislead man, and attempt to reduce him to an idiot if not an outright beast. You find this exactly repeated from the time of Alexander the Great up to the Age of Science, with all of today's oppressive economical systems being Aristotelian. It's simple, but confusing to most people who want to "blame the Jews for everything", or have been too subjected to church or science dogma to be able to find their way out.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    Yes, Jayke, but what I am struggling with is this continuous mindset of nations instead of people; people's minds, their evolution, their evolving as whole human beings as it relates to evolution of us as God or whoever's creation. How did that place and those people happen and why?
    My understanding is that it’s all part of ’The Music of the Spheres’ (as it relates to systems theory, character development, neuroscience, planetary motions etc).

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Harmonies-H.../dp/0892815000
    Quote Joscelyn Godwin explores music's effects on matter, living things, and human behavior. Turning to metaphysical accounts of the higher worlds and theories of celestial harmony, the author follows the path of musical inspiration on its descent to Earth, illuminating the archetypal currents that lie beneath Western musical history.
    There was a very Venusian impulse at the beginning of the Renaissance, followed by a strong Mercurial impulse. Was it Manly Hall that talks about a 600 year ‘cycle of the Phoenix’? A Renaissance every 600 years brought about by the incoming energies of planetary archetypes?

    The hermetic and Kabbalah tradition are both very left-brained, reasonable and rational — whereas the Vajryana alchemical practices, that became infused into the Renaissance, isn’t reason based at all — it’s grounded in right-brained, emotion, energy and embodied cognition; the wisdom of the intelligence of the body as a whole. I love the alchemical art from that time period (Michael Maier — Atalanta Fugien), which is designed to resonate with the right-brain more than our reasonable apparatus.

    The left-brain is more manipulative, cold, calculated, hierarchy based; which is why it gives rise to the oppressive tendencies of Aristotoleanism, as Shaberon points out. Whereas the right-brain is more holistic, heart-based, intuitive and idealistic. Right-brain wisdom gives rise to the Platonic ideals and Venusian impulses.

    Whatever was happening within the harmony of the spheres during the Renaissance, it seems to have triggered an ‘alchemical wedding’, and individuals who were in tune with the cosmic currents of creation were able to harness these impulses and put them to use.



    The East conjoined its alchemical wisdom with the West. The sun (left-brain) and the moon (right-brain) were activated simultaneously and synced up to create the masterpieces of art and science that still leave us in awe to this day.

    Is another ‘Cycle of the Phoenix’ about to line up within the music of the spheres? I’ve been seeing some indications that another planetary Renaissance is certainly on the horizon.
    Last edited by Jayke; 2nd September 2018 at 17:48.

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Music of the Spheres is the right idea behind astrology, as above so below. Even though one of its most explanatory treatises was written by the Jesuit Athanasius Kircher, I think he was pretty straightforward and didn't do some excessive things like G. D.

    In terms of some cycle, I got to looking at Atlanta and it is not actually named for Atlantis/Atlantic Ocean, but for goddess Atalanta mentioned above, I believe she is Virgo or Blindfolded Justice.

    Look at the town it was: built for about 15 years by industrialists who pushed natives off the land, and started a railroad to do commerce with the products of slavery. Then it was attacked and burned by an army who claimed the people were its subjects. So it's got a pretty sketchy background to say the least. Would one ever think that imbalance of justice could, somehow, even up?

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    I read "John Dee and the Empire of Angels" day before yesterday. It's a very well-written book in a really non obscure way which I appreciate. There are many excellent points in this book and the author really gave me an understanding of the passing of the baton of magic from John Dee on and how that baton was picked up by Aleister Crowley, whatever one may think of him. What's amazing to me is the level of influence from Crowley's black arts. It seems he didn't start out in the blackness, but acted it out wholeheartedly later on.

    Anyway, here's an interesting quote from the book regarding astrology and magic:

    Quote Astrology, like sorcery, is about defining the narrative of reality..........astrology operates in the realm not of actual observed phenomena but of the human mind and the meanings it attaches to observed events. Magicians,, astrologers and prophets can often appear to have changed objective reality, when all that has truly changed is the subjective way in which events are being perceived, a skillful manipulation of confirmation bias.
    That sounds familiar. Life in the 21st century.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Thanks, Val! Any other "gems" discovered?!

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    A lot of gems Foxie. Here, I'll pick another.

    Quote John Dee, Edward Kelly, Aleister Crowley, Victor Neuburg, Jack Parsons, Marjorie Cameron, and many others consciously engaged with the Apocalypse, casting themselves in central roles. Each experienced profound alterations of consciousness-an inner apocalypse. This is the original meaning of apokalypsis, which means not a conflagration of violence but "an uncovering," a revelation of divine knowledge that permanently casts the world in a new light. These inner revelations were considered to be linked to the outer apocalypse-the objective progress of the world toward its end-even, through the logic of sympathetic magic, to effect and accelerate this timeline. In the real world, such inner visionary experiences influenced these individuals' later actions, many of which (as detailed previously) were intimately connected with the ideological, cultural, and even military development of the British and American empires.

    These actions did not occur in a vacuum-they are deeply personal expressions of the millennia-long spiritual narrative of Western culture itself, which progressed around these magicians' individual work and would have continued to advance with or without them. It is unlikely that the average Christian fundamentalist or American politician has ever heard of Dee or even entertained the concept of magic as anything except a "Satanic" force forbidden by scripture; if they have heard of Crowley, it is as a one-dimensional symbol of this perceived Satanism. Yet, as demonstrated at length in the previous chapters, Dee and those who followed him have indeed played a starring role in the West's rush to Armageddon.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Got to agree on that, Val! Since most people have no conception of the fact that we humans ARE "creators"....it is not possible for the majority to understand that because of the narrowminded religious construct here in the West, we are hastening ourselves toward a preconceived "End Time" scenario!

    Instead, we should be envisioning a Glorious Future as we are crawling out of the morass of the Pedo Empire! Be sure to read Herve's just posted article on the CIA/APA. I'm sure you could "relate" in many ways!

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    Default Re: Anyone like John Dee?

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    I read "John Dee and the Empire of Angels" day before yesterday. It's a very well-written book in a really non obscure way which I appreciate. There are many excellent points in this book and the author really gave me an understanding of the passing of the baton of magic from John Dee on and how that baton was picked up by Aleister Crowley, whatever one may think of him. What's amazing to me is the level of influence from Crowley's black arts. It seems he didn't start out in the blackness, but acted it out wholeheartedly later on.

    Anyway, here's an interesting quote from the book regarding astrology and magic:

    Quote Astrology, like sorcery, is about defining the narrative of reality..........astrology operates in the realm not of actual observed phenomena but of the human mind and the meanings it attaches to observed events. Magicians,, astrologers and prophets can often appear to have changed objective reality, when all that has truly changed is the subjective way in which events are being perceived, a skillful manipulation of confirmation bias.
    That sounds familiar. Life in the 21st century.
    Crowley's mom called him the Beast and he spent the rest of his life trying to live up to it. His last book was somewhat of a release, I forget the name.

    But yes, since the objective world is an illusion then, ordinary waking consciousness is nothing other than the casting of illusions. This is to say that reality is transcendental and not of this world. So the mind has a meditational ability or state, and the rest of the time you are casting illusions. This is just a law of nature.

    Most people are not particularly good at it and relatively easy to pave, and will continually be trodden unless taking the same knowledge and using it in a compassionate way.

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