The 'Moon Wave' - what is it?

[shaberon]

I have no clue about the phenomenon, but Water = Space is pretty much the same in most cosmologies, even in Genesis.

No, it doesn't mean regular liquid water, ice, or hydrogen hydroxide. Vacuum, ether, or quantum flux is closer to what it means. Someone may have taken it a little out of context...

[Joe from the Carolinas]

Posted by Agarthian (here)
Amazing how sold Michael Tellinger is on this! Really spoils the rest of his talk for me now LOL

There are aspects of Michael tellingers work that I deeply respect. And, he completely loses me with “mud fossils”, which he brought up at CITD this year.

On the moon wave issue, I listened to Crrow777 for a little while. Nearly every one of his podcasts boils down to “but nothing is actually real, everything is a lie because someone else told you, so all of these things are possible.”

Incidentally I believe there is water in space. There’s a bunch of it frozen on the moon, on mars, and Enceladus to name a few

I’ve been watching the moon through a celestron telescope for a long time, never saw a moon wave. And I was looking for it too

[Denise/Dizi]

Posted by Agarthian (here)
Thank you Herve, feels like it's still inconclusive. Though the idea that space is water seems preposterous. I'm surprised that Michael goes that far in his presentation. Is there water in space? Conceivably. Is all space a giant aquarium? Uh, no. Lost me there...

But I don't think Crrow777 would be so dumb as to fake this, and there seem to be others who have documented it as well, even at the same times. Maybe just another one to file in that 'not sure what this is, but clearly we don't know much about the multiverse, so it may be possible' category.

I often wonder if space being water isn't the actual truth! The Bible says it, NASA has shown us images of "Space" with their "Tether accident", and those things hovering around that tether didn't look like spacecraft, they looked more like HUGE JELLYFISH to me! Hitler went UNDER the ice wall in Antarctica, in Submarines, and according to the SSP, many of their craft are built using submarine components. They even train Nasa astronauts in water, and their footage always seems to have bubbles in it. Either they're faking the footage from their tank, or space could actually be the "Waters above" ..

It does make you wonder... I always think the stars look more like lights under water too.. Perhaps it is just me.. But I tend to believe my eyes more than what NASA says anymore.

There was a previous post about us not possibly understanding other forms of "Water".. This was more what I was suggesting, not that we have some barrier that is up there.. Perhaps water, at a certain pressure turns to something else. But it sure appears to be water with everything I come across, or some form of it..

Of course I am no scientist

[Mari]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Many folks may not know that Michael Tellinger is also a Flat Earther.

Why I Don't Talk About Flat Earth
(The reason is because he gets too much ridicule. That's what the video's about.)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bZiqfH7a_OI

Hi Bill, Firstly, I’m not a ‘flat-earther’, have never really looked into it & have no opinions on it, either way. I’m not posting here to argue for its defence. There’s enough going on in this crazy world to keep me occupied!

Having got that out of the way, I will defend anyone’s right to think what they believe, come up with their own ‘theories’ & maybe present them to a willing/open-minded audience – providing it does no harm. That’s important. As far as I can see, just believing in this stuff does no harm – provided you don’t shove it down another’s throat..
I sense that some people use the label (for that’s what it is, a label) of ‘Flat-Earther’ to denigrate, much the same as ‘conspiracy theorist’ is used to ridicule any truth-seeker.
My opinion only.

Even if there is no ‘scientific evidence’ whatsoever to back up anything to do with the FE theory – people should be free to talk about it – even if it reduces said audience to disbelief & hysterical giggles.

Fellow Avalonian Agarthian , I don’t think Michael Tellinger is ‘sold’ on this theory, I believe its just his scientific training & (very!) open sceptical mind willing to go down his own personal rabbit-hole & explore all possibilities – even if they go nowhere, which they may well do.

I do sense a real ‘aversion’ to anything related to Flat-Earth & its proponents – why are some people so threatened by anything so ‘very out there’. Okay, I know the answer to that one & I know most Avalonians know as well.

Finally, on the subject of ‘ridicule’, anyone remember David Icke when he started out over 25 yrs ago & the phenomenal verbal abuse he endured? I do, having followed this brave man with his ‘out there crazy theories’, some that were laughed right out of court (I watched that excruciating Terry Wogan interview then)

I don’t need to remind anyone of how right that man has been, on most subjects, in predicting the world we live in today. His reputation, amongst those who’ve actually read/listened to him, stands stronger than ever.

For that reason, and regardless of whether he’ll be proved right or wrong, I will defend to the death (as someone has famously said) anyone’s, even Michael Tellingers right to their opinion, even if it shakes us to our foundation & causes us to wet our pants with hilarity.
Rant over…..normal service resumed.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Mari (here)
Rant over…..normal service resumed.

Thanks! I enjoyed your rant.

Here's a serious reply, that explains the forum's position.

Re Flat Earthism, it's not a "Free Speech" issue, which we fully support on a wide number of controversial topics. Examples are that whatever someone's views may be on Trump, race and racism, immigration, Brexit, Gaia TV, religion, veganism, vaccines, Facebook, 9/11, censorship, the Secret Space Program (and the associated claimed whistleblowers), Targeted Individuals, or events than may or may not be False Flags, they're welcome to present them. (And even the 'moon wave', too. )

Members can debate those issues all they like (which is how we all learn), as long as the discussion is respectful, intelligent, and focuses on the exchange of good, referenced information.

The difference between all the above topics and Flat Earthism is that the latter is a psy-op injected into the alternative community to discredit it. There are already a number of threads on this, and members and guests can read them. They're right there, and while some (but not all) have been closed, they've never been deleted.

However, any member who promotes Flat Earthism in an unintelligent, diehard way WILL be shown the door here (or, more likely, their membership application would not have been accepted in the first place, which is one reason why we have such applications).

The reason for that is that we're not going to provide a free platform to someone who's actually an unknowing intelligence asset doing an agency's job for them, just because they're too unintelligent or uninformed to realize what's what's happening. They'd be causing damage to the community, beyond that of Avalon, as well. And we're not going to support that.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Diziblueyez (here)
I always think the stars look more like lights under water too.. Perhaps it is just me.. But I tend to believe my eyes more than what NASA says anymore.
[...]
Of course I am no scientist

Right. But you see, there are some serious issues here.

I've told the story elsewhere of my conversation, many years ago, with a very lovely (and intelligent) friend who was an art student at university. We were chatting about a bunch of things, and I happened to refer to stars being suns just like our own, but zillions of miles away, often so far distant that their light took thousands of years to reach us.

My friend was astonished. She just thought they were like little lights in the night sky, rather like ceiling lamps. She'd never even thought about it. And clearly, either that'd never been covered in any science class at school, or she was absent that day when it was explained what stars were.

So I explained the whole thing, and she was fascinated. She took it all on board really fast. It was just all new information for her.

But here's the serious issue. She was 21. Not knowing about stuff like that can be excused at quite a young age. (Even Flat Earthism can be excused in a young person if they're willing to learn, and simply don't understand or have never been exposed to any explanations.)

When one's in one's 40s or 50s, though, it's a different matter. One reasonably expects people to have that kind of general knowledge under one's belt, like knowing basic geography. A 21 year old in America might not know where Australia is. But if a 41 year old doesn't, then there's something rather wrong.

[Mari]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Mari (here)
Rant over…..normal service resumed.

Thanks! I enjoyed your rant.

Here's a serious reply, that explains the forum's position.

Re Flat Earthism, it's not a "Free Speech" issue, which we fully support on a wide number of controversial topics. Examples are that whatever someone's views may be on Trump, race and racism, immigration, Brexit, Gaia TV, religion, veganism, vaccines, Facebook, 9/11, censorship, the Secret Space Program (and the associated claimed whistleblowers), Targeted Individuals, or events than may or may not be False Flags, they're welcome to present them. (And even the 'moon wave', too. )

Members can debate those issues all they like (which is how we all learn), as long as the discussion is respectful, intelligent, and focuses on the exchange of good, referenced information.

The difference between all the above topics and Flat Earthism is that the latter is a psy-op injected into the alternative community to discredit it. There are already a number of threads on this, and members and guests can read them. They're right there, and while some (but not all) have been closed, they've never been deleted.

However, any member who promotes Flat Earthism in an unintelligent, diehard way WILL be shown the door here (or, more likely, their membership application would not have been accepted in the first place, which is one reason why we have such applications).

The reason for that is that we're not going to provide a free platform to someone who's actually an unknowing intelligence asset doing an agency's job for them, just because they're too unintelligent or uninformed to realize what's what's happening. They'd be causing damage to the community, beyond that of Avalon, as well. And we're not going to support that.

Thanks Bill, I take your point completely. Being totally new to the FE business, I had no idea that it was/is a psy-op. I guess there must be others, though?

[ThePythonicCow]

In my view, one must consider where the limitations on speech are being considered.

The "commons", the larger spaces within which individuals, families and associations of people gather, travel and converse, should be "large" enough to allow a wide variety of expression, in word and deed, but not so large as destroy or seriously damage that commons or its well intended members.

Similarly, families, associations, including web sites and forums, should be open, but not too open. It is entirely fine by me that some other website only allow flat earthers, or that the family in the trailer next to mine only allows flat earther guests. The web "commons", and this quite ordinary trailer park in North Texas, are big enough, and disinterested enough, to allow forums and families with both such views, or no particular view whatsoever on that particular issue.

We might even discipline our own minds thusly, encouraging within ourselves a variety (more or less) of thoughts and considerations, but not so varied that we become incapable of conducting our normal affairs in life or of making progress toward our desires and intentions. Thus the common advice to keep one's mind open, but not so open that things fall out.

However, there are limits.

Should Bill freely grant me permission to openly post, here on the Avalon forum, the key passwords that control this website? Free speech, right? H*ll no! Some hacker could notice what I had posted and destroy the Avalon forum, or at least make things quite difficult here, for a while.

This same advice shines a light on what we should require of a Facebook, Amazon, Google or Youtube website. They are no longer "just another association", relatively free, as is the Project Avalon forum, to encourage, discourage, tolerate, prohibit, or be quite disinterested in the expression of various particular views. These large "social media" and "cloud" corporations have become a substantial part of the "commons", of the larger space within which individuals, families and associations of people gather, travel, converse, conduct business and share information. They absolutely still have a right, and a duty, to prohibit and censure the posting, by say one of their administrators "gone mad", of key passwords and secret keys that are critical to their operations. So long as they have and are granted a "right to exist", they have and require that sort of authority over the use of their websites and forums. But their alliances and biases with regard to matters, issues and influences outside of their own self-evident interests should be few in number, minimal in power, and openly displayed.

That is a problem we presently have with Facebook, Amazon, Google and Youtube. They have become powerful enough to dominate much of the commons, yet their alliances and biases with regard to matters, issues and influences outside of their own self-evident interests are almost certainly NOT few in number, minimal in power, or openly displayed. This opens the way for great abuse of their substantial powers.

Freedom matters. Size matters. They are inter-connected.

[Akasha]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Agarthian (here)
Though the idea that space is water seems preposterous.

I'd suggest that it doesn't 'seem' preposterous... it truly is!

There was a video on the other thread (see this post) that showed how it could be faked. Alas, it's been taken down (the account was terminated).

That doesn't prove that Crrow777 faked it. But it does offer a more likely hypothesis than an inexplicable phenomenon such as the one he claims which has never been seen ever by any of the tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all over the world, all with extremely good telescopes and cameras and who are paid by and beholden to nobody.

Possibly to crown it all, Crrow777 is a Flat Earther. It's easy to find the links: just search for [Crrow777 + "flat earth"]. That offers a measure of his level of knowledge of science and astronomy, and his ability to apply logic. If he were a prosecutor in court, the jury might laugh him out of it.

I've located The Paulstal Service's Archive so anyone who went to the other thread via Bill's link above and was disappointed by the dead link to the video explaining the Moon wave scam can watch it by clicking the link below and then scrolling down video 39 - and while you are there, check out some of his other content too. His YT channel wasn't scrubbed for no good reason:

https://archive.org/details/OrlandoS...+Wave'.mp4

This clown / telescope dealer (operative?), Crrow777 managed to dupe Jay Weidner and Groovie Bean into dedicating a whole Reality Check show to him a couple of weeks ago - the irony. Jay, and Yvonne, if you are reading this now, please use your platform to give him a "Reality Check". It's long overdue! It's precisely pernicious behavior like his which wrecks the community and needs to be called out.

[silvanelf]

You will find more references by searching for "lunar waves".
See also: Transient lunar phenomenon (wikipedia)

Here is a comment on quora:

Mart de Groot, PhD Astronomy, Utrecht University (1969)
Answered Dec 31, 2017 · Author has 110 answers and 22.9k answer views

The lunar wave(s), more correctly named terrestrial atmospheric tides, are due to the gravitational attraction of the moon upon the atmosphere. It is the same mechanism that produces the tides in the oceans.

Another use of the name lunar wave is caused by atmospheric refraction. It shows as a wave-like phenomenon along the edge of the moon, especially when the moon is low in the sky. It is a normal atmospheric effect.

For more detailed information check the following websites:
“atmospheric tides” in Wikipedia; “atmospheric diffraction” in Wikipedia;

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-lu...nce-standpoint

[Akasha]

Posted by silvanelf (here)
You will find more references by searching for "lunar waves".
See also: Transient lunar phenomenon (wikipedia)

Here is a comment on quora:

Mart de Groot, PhD Astronomy, Utrecht University (1969)
Answered Dec 31, 2017 · Author has 110 answers and 22.9k answer views

The lunar wave(s), more correctly named terrestrial atmospheric tides, are due to the gravitational attraction of the moon upon the atmosphere. It is the same mechanism that produces the tides in the oceans.

Another use of the name lunar wave is caused by atmospheric refraction. It shows as a wave-like phenomenon along the edge of the moon, especially when the moon is low in the sky. It is a normal atmospheric effect.

For more detailed information check the following websites:
“atmospheric tides” in Wikipedia; “atmospheric diffraction” in Wikipedia;

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-lu...nce-standpoint

Let's not get confused between verifiable scientific phenomena as you just described and deceptive digital video editing trickery as in Crrow777's Moon wave videos.

[silvanelf]

Posted by Akasha (here)
Let's not get confused between verifiable scientific phenomena as you just described and deceptive digital video editing trickery as in Crrow777's Moon wave videos.

Thank you for pointing that out! I was paying attention to the scientific phenomenon, while I just assumed -- my bad -- that Crrow777's Moon wave videos were genuine.

[Akasha]

No problem. As I pointed out in post 29, click here and then scroll down to video 39 for the explanation of how he did it.

[s7e6e]

Crrow777 is not a flat Earther, he stated many times that the nature of the realm we all live in has been misdescribed by the science, that's all.
Nor he ever said space is water. He said filming the moon presents similar particularities as filming through a liquid.

(fun fact: liquid helium, which like all gases condenses in extreme cold temperatures, glows blue when subjected to UV radiation.)

Really disappointed but rather not surprised to see some of the folks in here trying their best to mock and ridicule someone who's just trying to make sense of all this. Makes me more certain he's on to something, this Crow777 fella.