Social Engineering

[TomKat]

Thought we might start posting examples that we see in the world of social engineering, that is, efforts to guide behavior in a certain direction. For instance:

At my local Home Depot self-checkout, they have converted 6 of the 8 stations to cashless only. And yesterday, they had closed one of the cash-allowed stations so there was only one. And this is prior to their big Labor Day weekend sales push.

[Valerie Villars]

I went to a McDonald's which I almost NEVER do and found you had to order from a kiosk inside the "restaurant" which was very confusing. No personal interaction at all. The order was then bought to the table by a person when it was ready.

The whole experience was strange and sterile. I won't be going back.

[Mari]

Well, I can think of one, here in the UK, that gets right up my nose: the recent introduction here of plastic-like £5 and £10 notes (£20 notes to follow, I'm sure)
It seems to me to be a step forward to getting us used to a cashless society, with plastic cards replacing cash, the next 'smooth' step. I heard it said we are supposed to find these new notes 'convenient' that they are more hard-wearing & wont tear like paper, blah blah... Total rubbish.

Really irritating is the way they 'pop up' when you try to stuff them in your purse - they wont stay down, nor will they fold in two!
I don't know which is worse - that, or the fact that we are being conditioned to accept as the next logical step, digital payments and digital banking. The true motive of course is corporate profit and total control of the population via major surveillance that digital transactions will allow.

[Flash]

Yes, and they melt on the dashboard of your car in hot days and they split in extra cold days, on your dashboard. (In Canada). We have had them for a few years.

Posted by Mari (here)
Well, I can think of one, here in the UK, that gets right up my nose: the recent introduction here of plastic-like £5 and £10 notes (£20 notes to follow, I'm sure)
It seems to me to be a step forward to getting us used to a cashless society, with plastic cards replacing cash, the next 'smooth' step. I heard it said we are supposed to find these new notes 'convenient' that they are more hard-wearing & wont tear like paper, blah blah... Total rubbish.

Really irritating is the way they 'pop up' when you try to stuff them in your purse - they wont stay down, nor will they fold in two!
I don't know which is worse - that, or the fact that we are being conditioned to accept as the next logical step, digital payments and digital banking. The true motive of course is corporate profit and total control of the population via major surveillance that digital banking will allow.

[Mari]

Social engineering is everywhere.

[shaberon]

Posted by Mari (here)
Social engineering is everywhere.

Yes, it's kind of hard to find a non-example. Closest is probably the folks who didn't start something, but copied it.

The cashless and person-less thing is incredibly creepy. And as these things emerge, as one finds how lackluster it all becomes--is revolt being engineered? It seems to me that, instead of encouraging me to participate in the drone hive, I am being engineered to destroy it. Rather than do so violently, I am attempting to have it voluntarily rejected.

I find it silly that, for instance, one company will make a demographic survey of my area so I become a statistic, pass on the information so that some store will stock up on four or five magazines and kinds of beer that I'm "supposed" to buy, and it never happens. I've received perhaps a couple tons of junk mail promptly transferred to an out-of-state landfill, and so much phone and e-mail spam that I largely gave up on normal use of those things. Marketing = manufacture of waste.

This type of engineering seems not just unsustainable, but an outright plea to kill it before it does anything else. Sadly, my lack of participation has not reduced anything, but actually caused them to produce more. My generation may have been the first to start discussing these issues in public school when I was five, everybody, even little kids knew most of the same basic answers we do now, and for the rest of my life I have watched "progress" go exactly backwards. Maybe that's what you get for trying to be nice and non-violent.

I can't really even call it a society if everything is based on cars, personal space, the stand-offishness of pick up a package somewhere and go away, meaning the U. S. From my minor experience of Europe, it's a completely different world where you can talk to anyone, which was so much better, I even like the people who were rude to me. There might be exceptions here, but, for the most part, we're very detached and isolated, leading to selfishness/exaltation of the self, intentionally caused, mostly in the name of sales.

[Valerie Villars]

Real New Orleans is still a talkative town. But, the hustlers have moved in to take advantage of our natural tendency to connect and tell stories. And so it goes.

I'm in the country now.

[Flash]

Social engineering:
chipped credit card that you zap in a machine at a self service counter and cash register

gaz that you buy with credit cards at the pump

everything bought on the internet, the whole amazone and e-bay stuff like.

everything or almost, consumed on the internet (videos, facebook, twitter, etc)

computerized voting machines

selling us the idea of robot in everyday life replacing men and women even in personal relationships

cell phones and automated communications

smartmeters for electricity and 5G

reduction in education quality

pushed LGBT and transgender stuff on the young (regular happenings would be enough without being pushed)

music lyrics and music noises (when they are noises, which is most, keeping my respect for real creators)

destruction of family life and families

well, name it, it is all around

[TomKat]

I remember in the 90s and later when TV commercials when depicting a married couple always depicted the woman as strong and the man as a harmless buffoon. It wasn't just commercials trying to appeal to women, it was kind of a requirement for all commercials. They may still be doing it, but I rarely watch broadcast TV anymore.

And of course there's Netflix trying to normalize "alternative lifestyles" such as homosexuality, drug abuse, prison, et al.

[TomKat]

Posted by Mari (here)
Well, I can think of one, here in the UK, that gets right up my nose: the recent introduction here of plastic-like £5 and £10 notes (£20 notes to follow, I'm sure)
It seems to me to be a step forward to getting us used to a cashless society, with plastic cards replacing cash, the next 'smooth' step. I heard it said we are supposed to find these new notes 'convenient' that they are more hard-wearing & wont tear like paper, blah blah... Total rubbish.

Really irritating is the way they 'pop up' when you try to stuff them in your purse - they wont stay down, nor will they fold in two!
I don't know which is worse - that, or the fact that we are being conditioned to accept as the next logical step, digital payments and digital banking. The true motive of course is corporate profit and total control of the population via major surveillance that digital transactions will allow.

So a 10 pound note is a plastic card? Carrying 100 around in your wallet would seem almost impossible with those cards instead of paper.

I remember in the US in 1979 or so they issued the Susan B Anthony dollar coin which was about the same size as a quarter, so most likely you gave away 75 cents if you spent one (as a quarter). At the same time Canada and Australia had similar dollar coins. I remember my Aussie friend saying "it doesn't look like different management to me."

[Franny]

Take a look at this article and AI 'artwork', it's creepy as h*ll, literally. Some will find it intriguing or sophisticated or something equally absurd.

There are several regular paintings including one that suggests it's from the lair of a Rothschild - and it seems to fit them.

I didn't include the images, rather not have them on the forum.

The Terrifying Paintings by ArtificiaI Intelligence
By Peter De Boer - August 31, 2018

Witness the Birth of A.I. (Artificial Intelligence) Art, art produced by algorithm.

And its one hell of a mutilated abortion. Words that spring to mind: monstrous, from hell, distorted, terrifying, soulless…

Its like self-portraits of a family of aristocrats if they were each and every one of them a soul-sucking demon.

https://www.thedailybell.com/all-art...-intelligence/

[norman]

The new digital replacement of old ways is a proprietal domain, subject to different rules outside of or away from all the hard fought for freedoms and rights.

It's this sneaky under-the-radar transition that is the main act. When the whole world is one big corporate unity under one big corporate bank, we the little people will be 'subjects' of "Terms and Conditions".

[shaberon]

I don't watch television, but, since it's a topic, one "improvement" I can't stand is:

the camera swoops and flies around a whole bunch, and usually cuts to a different angle every few seconds. This certainly does not resemble the way the eye sees things.

In the early days of film, they figured that you had about two to at most ten minutes to hook an audience's attention, or you'd lose them. Now that is crunched to the eight-second sound bite.

It's all too fast and unstable to me. In fact, it doesn't resemble information or entertainment, it most closely resembles combat. Blinding flurry of strikes disorients any opponent, then you can kill them. So the tv...doesn't quite regulate behavior like corralling you at a kiosk or something, but it kind of injects brain wave violence, agitation. And what happens? With most everything it is exposed to, the brain repeats the pattern, keeps rewinding whatever happened. There's nothing stable, and you generally are going to osmose someone's fiction in a choppy manner.

With actual fighting, the body goes fast, but the brain is like ice. That's because you have an actual discipline which demands self-control. Lose control, get angry, you're finished. Oppositely, if the brain is already agitated and disoriented, you've lost every challenge in life before you even get to it. An example of a challenge these days appears to be talking to another person.

The other method is to basically flatline it and make it not work at all, which is probably closer to the opioids they push.

By "method", I mean the art of reducing a human to an animal: either over-stimulation or drainage will do that. Social engineering is mostly this.

Almost all of the old classical fiction--plays--was designed for you to ponder upon facts and meanings intended by the author. That was because stating it plainly would have got them in a lot of trouble, and it worked as communication. Fiction now seems more like the divine right of kings: well, the last guy got rich making shows, now I deserve to inherit the throne, so I'm going to stick a fork in your brain and scramble it as hard as I can.

[Joe from the Carolinas]

Aside from how billions of people are now sharing their most private thoughts, locations, activities, and deeply personal information on social media platforms like farcebook and utube?

How about push notifications? Cell phones now aren’t just little computers, they’re little security monitors that prompt people to confirm when they enter a store (by promoting people to submit a review). Same goes for websites. That pop-up blocker?? No problem. You now get a pop up asking you to turn OFF your pop up blocker.

There’s some social engineering for ya

[Oddball]

I don’t like the fact that they have these electronic “chips” in the cards nowadays.

I feel like they are getting me used to being asked, “Do you have a chip”? Because that’s how thy always ask.

Reminds me of the 90’s when all the tinfoil hats were convinced they were going to “chip” the whole population.

[Oddball]

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
Real New Orleans is still a talkative town. But, the hustlers have moved in to take advantage of our natural tendency to connect and tell stories. And so it goes.

I'm in the country now.

Even though Nawlins has some amazing history, and creole food, I just get the feeling it is a wicked city. People looking you up and down seeing how they can take advantage of you type place. Sort of likeAmsterdam but not quite as bad. And that was BEFORE the hurricane...

[TomKat]

Posted by Oddball (here)

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
Real New Orleans is still a talkative town. But, the hustlers have moved in to take advantage of our natural tendency to connect and tell stories. And so it goes.

I'm in the country now.

Even though Nawlins has some amazing history, and creole food, I just get the feeling it is a wicked city. People looking you up and down seeing how they can take advantage of you type place. Sort of likeAmsterdam but not quite as bad. And that was BEFORE the hurricane...

Is it possible they're looking you up and down because they sense you are OTHER (as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers)? That's very common in small towns.

But to your original assessment, Los Angeles was like that: you sit in a restaurant and everyone is checking you out. Like what are YOU looking at? :-)

[AriG]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-TqgQd1cLl8

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=KFskGTkW9m8

[Valerie Villars]

Posted by Oddball (here)

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
Real New Orleans is still a talkative town. But, the hustlers have moved in to take advantage of our natural tendency to connect and tell stories. And so it goes.

I'm in the country now.

Even though Nawlins has some amazing history, and creole food, I just get the feeling it is a wicked city. People looking you up and down seeing how they can take advantage of you type place. Sort of likeAmsterdam but not quite as bad. And that was BEFORE the hurricane...

I was born in 61 and while the city had some wicked elements, it was a friendly, family oriented place. We partied hard, ate hard and danced hard. Family was a BIG deal.

It had changed before Katrina and then changed a lot afterward, but maybe it's just the whole world has changed.

There are so many more psychopaths now, in general.

[Mari]

A very good recent article in The Guardian about engineering the public psyche towards a cashless society: Its a subtle but sure process (has to be) & after reading this I feel that the doors are starting to swing shut. This is scary.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...money-cashless

I've also copied the article here:

By Brett Scott, campaigner and former broker.

Sweden leads the world in cashlessness. In doing so it also leads the world in opening its citizens up to fine-grained financial surveillance. “Cashless society” is a euphemism for a “bank payments society”, in which every transaction must be passed through a complex of banks, card companies, phone providers and payments apps.
In granting financial corporations complete control over the money system, our every economic interaction ends up logged in their databases for analysis. Sweden may end up being the first society in which every private economic action is recorded.

Cashlessness is often presented as natural “progress”. Indeed, a recent BBC article about Sweden’s digital payments fetish asks: “So how did the Nordic nation get so far ahead of the rest of us?”.As if cashlessness is a state we are all willingly racing towards.
Commentators often suggest the phenomenon is driven by “consumer demand”. It’s partially true. Ask a room of people to raise their hands if they wish to be able to use digital payment, and most will do so. But if you reframe the question as “Do you want to not have the option to use cash?” people are more hesitant. We like new options, but we don’t like having options removed.

Automobile evangelists in the early 1900s pitched cars as the transport of the future, superior to other forms, such as horse-drawn carriages. The bicycle, though, has remained stubbornly persistent, despite the car’s greater speed, distance and carrying capacity. That’s because the bicycle is more efficient in certain contexts, and requires lower maintenance. Cars have come to cause congestion, pollution, accidents and urban sprawl, and nowadays we see the simple bicycle as one solution to the problems caused by the “superior” car.

So it is with cash. The digital payments industry tries to cast cash as the horse-drawn carriage of payments; but cash is the bicycle, more flexible, resilient and convenient in certain settings, especially informal ones.

People don’t “want” cashlessness any more than they “want” a society where you’re allowed to use cars only. And once people glimpse the dark side of bank digital payments – with surveillance, massive increase in financial cybercrime, and exclusion of people who cannot access the formal banking system – they will probably want cash to remain.
There are, however, certain institutions – banks, payments companies, and governments – that really do want the death of cash. They are waging a war on cash, publicly smearing it as an outdated social evil while contrasting it against a romanticised vision of digital payments. Most ordinary people do not see cash as a “social evil”. They see it as a normal public utility. Private companies, though, see public utilities as competition. The only reason Visa ran its “cashfree and proud” campaign is because Visa loses revenue when you use cash.

Engineering public consent for cashlessness is a subtle process. People may indeed enjoy a new payments app or contactless card, but financial institutions then use that to justify the gradual removal of the cash infrastructure – such as ATMS – in order to deliberately make cash harder to use. This feeds back, making digital seem relatively more convenient, “inspiring” more people to choose it.

A similar self-fulfilling feedback loop can be seen in the European commission’s recent inquiry into implementing cash thresholds that would set limits on the size of cash transactions. Thresholds seemingly strike a compromise, hindering criminal groups, which may use large cash transactions, while having minimal impact on legitimate businesses, which use small cash transactions. Nevertheless, if you wanted to slowly create a cashless society, thresholds would be the ideal way to incrementally implement it. By gradually lowering the threshold over time, authorities slowly wean people off cash by making it increasingly harder for them to use it. It acts as a ratchet mechanism, pushing them into the arms of the digital payments industry.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe ordinary people in Sweden do passionately desire cashlessness, and have driven it themselves. Maybe they are not aware of the downside of digital payment, or don’t care because they have relatively high levels of trust in their government and financial institutions. But this issue goes beyond Sweden. The Indian government recently tried to force-feed cashless society to its citizens through its botched demonetisation programme, which hit the poorest Indians hardest.
And then there is the rapid digitisation of China’s money system. Two services, WeChat and Alipay, have gained massive ground in mobile payments. There are enormous surveillance implications to having hundreds of millions of transactions being routed through two companies that the Chinese government has access to. Payments are one of the last data frontiers. Your Facebook profile presents your public persona, but in your private payments you “put your money where your mouth is”.

States having access to your payments data opens up potential for economic censorship. Want to disrupt a major protest in a country where everyone uses two major payments providers via phone apps that give location data? Order the companies to not process payments from any phone within the protest area.
Corporations too are drooling over the potential to monitor customer payment data. They can pass it through their machine-learning systems to understand your traits and manipulate you with ever-increasing levels of subtlety.

This is the world we celebrate when we congratulate Sweden for locking itself into a cage of digital payment. Maybe we should be more circumspect.

• Brett Scott is a campaigner and former broker