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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Depression

    I had this ex girlfriend who was always asking me , what are you thinking?

    It always caught me off guard. It made me uncomfortable. I'd actually struggle to arrive at anything and would usually offer up something glib or silly to wriggle out of answering. But she wouldn't let it go. I'd answer, and she'd inevitably say no, what are you *really* thinking? And we'd go round in circles like that...

    She fancied herself an intuitive and a witch. And I couldn't help but occasionally think, what the hell does she think I'm hiding? Is she seeing something I'm not quite in touch with? I got a little neurotic about it, honestly.

    We fought frequently. I always felt I was winning these fights, and as I was smugly revelling in my victory, she'd say this: "Mike you're a total phony and you don't even know it."

    And suddenly I'd revert back to being 6 years old after my sister called me a "poopyhead" or something. A phony? What do you mean I'm a phony? What the hell are you talking about? And having realized she was successfully under my skin, she would dodge answering directly and remain cryptically annoying about the whole thing. It was infuriating.

    But the gist of it was this: she knew I was prone to bouts of depression and she wanted me to talk about it all the time. She had a similar issue. But our ways of dealing with it were dramatically different - she didn't feel a conversation was really worthwhile unless it was deadly serious and addressing all the heavy stuff in one's life, whereas I like to joke around a great deal to keep my head above water. I enjoy what you might call "deep" conversation, but it exhausts me over time if it's the exclusive mood of the dialogue.

    So, at worst she thought I was glib and superficial and phony.....and I thought she was arrogant and sanctimonious and dry. We broke up maybe 6 months ago or so, but I've carried her accusations with me. In weaker moments I'd think, sh!t, maybe she's right...maybe I am a phony.

    But I've since had a revelation....
    The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

    It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive. In fact, one doesn't have a choice . In the face of impossible, trying to remain positive is the most challenging and noble thing one can do. That's not phoniness....it's the only game in town. You may think to yourself, it can't get any worse than this so why even try., But I assure you, it can get worse. Neglecting to try means the difference between mere tragedy and absolute hell.

    I understand that there are forms of depression that leave one feeling incapable of anything...even getting out of bed. Been there. But looking back over my life, I can see that there were openings, there were opportunities to improve my situation, even in the darkest moments....but I rarely took them. I was too busy indulging this depression. And that's an enormous mistake, with unforgiving ramifications.

    Theres a difference between being in denial about ones mental state and simply choosing not to indulge it 24 hours a day. My ex indulged her depression constantly because it gave her the perfect excuse to avoid the responsibility of at least trying to improve. It justified all her fears and shortcomings. It allowed her to sit on her butt and play the victim. Its all she ever focused on. She ridiculed my attempts at positivity because it revealed her weaknesses to her, and acknowledging that might have forced her to give an honest effort in life. She called me a phony but couldn't see how hypocritical that statement was.

    Ah, I feel better now. It's 5:18 am, and having finally articulated that to myself in a clear fashion, maybe I can sleep now. Wish me luck.
    Last edited by Mike; 1st September 2018 at 09:44.

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    UK Avalon Member Woody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Hi Mike, thank you for posting about your experiences of depression.
    I have lived with depression since mid teens, I am now 53 years young. I have always tried to hide it, but everyone around me must have known I was not mentally well.

    Fast forward to 3 years ago and total breakdown, serious suicide attempt resulted in me being escorted to hospital by the police, absolutely terrified that I had found myself in the uk mental health system. (Believe me as a former nurse the uk mental health service is not too good)

    My depression is still with me, but meds do seem to reduce the burden of living with depression.
    Have you heard of a short documentary called black dog depression? Very interesting and an eye opener for everyone with depression.

    Stay well and strong

    Woody

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    David Byrne was talking about this on the radio yesterday. Somewhat. Basically, he said the world is such a heavy place, that he had created a scrapbook of all the beautiful, noble, funny, uplifting things he could find. Just to remind himself of that side of life.

    "High station in life is earned by the gallantry with which appalling experiences are survived with grace."

    I agree about being uplifting and positive.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Israel Avalon Member PathWalker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Beloved Mike,

    I read your post with fascination and awe.
    You are powerful and courageous to post on the subject. I commend you for that.

    In addition please reflect on your action and mental attitude in the post. It is powerful and self enabling.
    You are determinant and consistent in changing your reality!
    Did you make it? Did you reach your goal?

    You took the essence of the foul relationship, and turned lemon to lemonade.

    Our most brutal rivals and challenges are our best teachers. She was a great teacher, and when you learnt your lessons it was time to depart.
    Please thank her for the empowerment, and forgive her for the hurt/pain.

    I strongly suggest Joe Dispenza material about changing our brain/habits.


    I also wish to remind you of the magic in Project Avalon.
    If you need healing or assistance, explicitly request.
    There are many real stories here of healing and manifestations.

    Love
    Joy and happiness
    PathWalker
    We are playing a virtual reality game, of duality. In the game of choices, align your choices with your ideals. Everything is whole, complete and perfect. Even yourself. Love is the power to change/create.

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    Default Re: Depression

    Been in that same dynamic plenty of times.

    The way it was put to me is: You think everything is a joke!

    Nothing was further from the truth. I'm serious as death. That doesn't mean I have to feel bad or be boring. It does require courage. Seriously--brutality and hell lurk in every corner waiting to strike. That's not a joke and it's not particularly amusing. You are a phony and a coward if you pretend otherwise. Takes a lot to stare it in the face and turn around and use that as a motivation to make another being laugh or smile. That's why I do it. If I can't make a living creature feel good, I need to leave.

    But it works. I can be 110% overflowing with depression, anger, and a host of other afflictions and basically toss my ego out the window, and it works. Instantly! This is all I have ever really done, is just to give away everything I can with no regard for self, as some kind of torch to pass along that benefits others. This worthless mortal coil will burn away to dust, but I believe that superior flame cannot be extinguished. This is the only way I have rebounded from life's many blows--self focus is a bottomless pit constantly sucking out energy, giving and sharing is all that matters.

    Many humans are too thick to let you do this, and it turns out being generally more effective with animals, but as far as I am concerned they are also faced with the possibility to be happy or not. I would not treat a dog for a single instance in the way many people treat all people all the time.

    I feel the same horrible things as anyone, and the only reason I haven't killed us all yet is from finding the ego to be the real phony, and just dropping it in order to spread something better that any creature can feel in its heart if it allows itself to. I would not do that if it didn't actually work, and if I can do it, anyone can.

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    United States Avalon Member ErtheVessel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Mike, so glad to hear you guys broke up. It doesn't sound to me like she was particularly intuitive.

    Carl Jung apparently believed (and I'm paraphrasing here) that normal depression was part of the process of transformation. Therefore not necessarily pathological, unless, I suppose, it goes on for decades. But who knows? Sometimes transformation takes decades. I have been seriously depressed myself, and it is a terribly difficult journey, but I have eventually slogged my way out of it over and over, usually somewhat richer for the misery. Seems to me that any sensitive, aware and thoughtful person interested in psychological growth is bound to face the overwhelming treachery of depression at certain stages.

    I'm very glad to hear you no longer carry her accusations. From your participation on this forum, you sound to me remarkably forthright, playful, emotionally courageous and honest, without a whisper of phoniness ever - attributes I respect, value and aspire to myself.

    Sometimes wallowing in depression is like endlessly slinging $#&t and results in just making oneself messy and stinky. Yes, it is challenging to see the upbeat and the positive, especially when one is depressed. It takes an ability to actually stand beside the depression and not be completely erased by it. There is a time for being true to one's pain, but there is also a time for knowing that sitting for another day in the dung heap is a waste of everyone's time. And to know that nothing is linear - things come and go and then come and go again. I guess it is up to each of us to find the balance that is the most respectful of our own soul's journey. She clearly did not respect your journey.

    (No offense to anyone currently sitting in the dreadful misery of depression. Totally valid and understandable place to be. I wish for you comfort, grace and deep healing.)
    Last edited by ErtheVessel; 2nd September 2018 at 02:59.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    wow, some excellent replies here.

    given the state of the world, it's remarkable that *everyone* isn't pathologically depressed.

    it's sometimes said that depression is a selfish disease. my response to that is that it's only selfish if the person suffering isn't doing everything in their power to improve. i wasn't always trying to improve...not in earnest anyway. And over time i became an enormous burden on the people around me, who all had their own crosses to bear. And i just can't shake the bloody guilt..

    i took advantage of people who were assisting me by not giving a full effort. now i realize what a miracle it is to have people in one's life to lean on in times of struggle. if someone is offering a shoulder, lean on it, by all means...but don't lean too long; that person or persons will begin to resent you. it's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'. While you're leaning, you have a responsibility to yourself and the person helping you to sort yourself out in order to be self reliant. that's how you honor the whole process. don't take advantage. it'll end in tears.

    I've had 2 friends commit suicide. others have tried and failed. i come from this gloomy, hardscrabble town, lots of poverty and so on, and people routinely check out. others develop a caustic, sarcastic attitude, and a wicked tongue. i have old friends who call me weekly, threatening suicide..and a common thing they all say is this, i've tried everything man...nothing helps...

    thats bullsh!t actually, because they haven't tried everything. they haven't tried medication, for example. no way, i'm not doing that sh!t, they'll say. i wouldn't want to take medication either, but it's better than being dead. this isn't an advert for the pharmaceutical industry btw, but when you hit absolute rock bottom, why on earth wouldn't you at least try??? Within a month you'll know if it's working for you or not. likely sooner. I'm not being glib when i say to them, at least try this for crying out loud..you can always kill yourself later...

    like erthevessel said, varying degrees of depression must be expected in a world where tragedy is prevalent....but chronic, enduring depression is another matter. sometimes there was this sense, when i was at my worst, that whatever i had left in the tank wasn't nearly enough to climb out of the abyss, and exhausting it would only result in me sinking deeper...so i didn't even attempt to drag myself out out of fear that things would only get worse. over time i figured out that the key is to break everything up into small chunks, small enough that whatever energy you do have can remedy it. and over time, slowly, you multiply your personal power this way, and are able to deal with bigger and bigger chunks.
    Last edited by Mike; 2nd September 2018 at 03:46.

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    Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Depression

    Lately I was always tired, waking up fine and then, 2 hours later, tired, depressed. I was finding it strange and decided to have a check up - thyroid, blood, etc. The md asked for anemia (low level of red blood cells - they do not test iron) and other stuff. Nothing came through.

    I had to see my endocrinologist (diabetis) and have a blood test for her. I myself added up on the requisition "iron", which she had not requested.

    Well, guess what, my iron level was much too low, despite having more red cells than normal (not anemic following standards). No iron= tiredness and depressive moods. Slowly recovering with iron supplements.

    a side note: if you are ever poisoned by something, and tell our doctor you think you are poisoned, the western doctors will not take that into account and put you on anti-depressant, which solves nothing. Eastern or African doctors will believe you and do the appropriate cures following symptoms. In Eastern and African cultures, poison is regularly used to get rid of people. In the west, it is not our arms of choice....

    Now looking in hindsight, I have had apathic periods throughout my life where I was depressed. I did lack iron 4 years ago and had to take supplements, and now again. I am now figuring that I may have had this problem throughout my life, but it was never corrected prior to 4 years ago. If I would have had those test about iron at an early age, I may have had a much better life altogether.

    I do think that lots of depressive states are due to chronic lack of something essential in the body.

    i do think that thorough check up, real thorough, like the elite may have, would help find out what are the deficiencies and correct it.

    Anti depressors are fine on a temporary level, but extremely hard to get rid of once we are on (I took some for 3 years during divorce and while learning about my daughter's handicaps) and let it go afterwards, it took me a whole year to weane myself of it, going slowly. It was still a roller coaster ride.

    One thing I do take when depressed is 5HTP (forbidden in England without prescription I think) sold over the counter in America and Canada. It promotes the production of serotonine by the body, without side effects.
    Last edited by Flash; 2nd September 2018 at 04:42.

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Hey Mike,
    I applaud your appreciation of humor to combat depression--I think it's one of the best tools we have.
    ( And so I refer you to my post here if you haven't already seen it: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1244904
    ...as I think you will appreciate it. )
    I had three siblings who committed suicide, and my mother attempted it when I was 9 ( I was the one who found her and called a neighbor for assistance, who rang for an ambulance. They pumped her stomach and she survived, but of course, being a child, I blamed myself for making her life unbearable.)
    So depression was rampant in my family.
    A huge personal koan was finally solved when I learned from psychics that suicide prone people often reincarnate into the same families or groups to act as mirrors for each other.
    Later, I learned from a wonderful shaman that suicides in generations of families can create a kind of entity which gets passed down from sibling to sibling and incorporates all that self-hating destructive energy into one big wallop of negative energy.
    When the last of my 3 siblings offed himself, I inherited that family entity, and so suddenly, inexplicably, I became suicidal.
    It wasn't really even depression that I came down with, it was pure self-loathing so dense that the prospect of creating even more suffering for myself through self-destruction actually gave me a very twisted feeling of satisfaction.
    It was very weird, and I knew it was being caused by something other than myself, because I had been possessed by a demonic entity that came through my alcoholic father when I was about 3 years old, and it was similar.
    I fought with that demon until I was in my late 20s, and finally overcame it with the help of a spiritual healer.
    But the suicide entity was more than I could handle-- I think I was just too tired.
    I tried to hang myself, but got busted before I could go through with it, then tried to slash my wrists and failed at that too ( too cowardly).
    Oddly, the day after that second failure, I was fine.
    I think maybe the fact that I didn't resist that energy allowed me to dissipate it with all my dramatic shenanigans!
    The shaman I met years later told me that there are many souls now on the planet who are working to break the suicidal patterns that have been passed down through generations of families, and that I was one of those souls.
    Tibetan Lama Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche wrote in one of his books-I think it was Meditation in Action--that it is actually when we have exhausted ourselves through struggle that we finally catch a glimpse of what acceptance and surrender really are.
    Part of the reason for the lingering depression that I felt after my release from suicidal tendencies had to do with my theories about spirituality.
    I thought that I had to constantly monitor myself and remain identified only with the Light, denying my own Shadow.
    But that kept me in a constant battle with myself, since the Shadow side must be brought into the open and accepted in order to be understood and to evolve.
    I was also in denial about how much I doubted, how my faith wasn't really grounded in reality, and was therefore quite shaky.
    I couldn't believe that God was Love with all the horrors that I saw in the world.
    So I stopped believing in that God and started believing in the Creator, who created both Darkness and Light, and tried to learn to accept that, and to continue working toward evolving more toward the Light, without constantly trying to deny that my dark side had any value or relevance.
    After all, Creator was responsible for the Darkness as well as the Light, and we are stuck with it, no matter how much we would like not to identify with it....
    But I think we learn to become stronger through our experience of the dark side. and if it has value, then it is that, and I've learned to appreciate it.
    And I've learned to grin and bear it, learning what an attribute a great sense of humor can be; even if it is a trifle sardonic, you can't deny that it is wise.
    You've probably read the scifi classic by Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land. Remember the scene when Michael Valentine Smith had a big satori and finally understood the dynamic of how human misery is created ( he saw a monkey get hurt accidentally by a falling coconut if I recall correctly, get enraged, and then take it out on another monkey). Then he was also finally able to understand the root of laughter, and once he understood that, he lost his self-doubt.
    It's not necessarily logical, but understanding can transcend logic--we can just feel it, with our hearts (and I know you do...).
    Once we accept how things are, we can let go of the inner struggle and then we have a lot more energy to make things better, not by clinging or battling against, but just by going with the slow, steady flow of evolution.

    We don't have to have a huge enlightenment experience to get there; a bunch of little insights can add up eventually to the equivalent of one big satori.
    A lot of depression is simply due to an unhealthy life style, but once we stop the internal battle, we have a lot more clarity and energy, so we can hear our bodies telling us what we need to feel better.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: Depression

    One thing I never understand is, if someone is that depressed, and I mean clinically like Mike is describing (and I've been there myself), why not, as you say, try the dreaded anti-depressants? They've helped some people after all, haven't they?

    But what I really can't understand is -- if you're so depressed that you want to end it, why not try to change everything first, before you do the un-retreatable ? Change your entire life. Leave town, if you can, change jobs, get a divorce, take up tennis, join a new age church, or stop attending church. Give up the ghost while still in the body, in other words. Accept you're already dead while still alive.

    You can also try surrendering, I mean totally surrendering to the Divine, like "Okay, I'm yours -- get me through this mess and I'll stick around..." But you have to have a little, just a little, faith to do that. A little faith that there's magic out there and in there. And to change everything you will need a little imagination. And self love.

    (You can also visit the Favorite Music thread and listen to the wonderful things I post there and Bluegreen and others Some great medicine there. "Music is your only friend..." )
    Last edited by Caliban; 2nd September 2018 at 05:53.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Nat that post was so full of soul and wisdom and raw honesty that i'm almost speechless. It gutted me, enlightened me, made me think and made me smile.

    thanks so much for writing it.

    lots of love to you!

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  23. Link to Post #12
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Accept you're already dead while still alive.
    Wow. I love this.

    If one accepts that one is starting from ground zero, and not one inch above, and prepares oneself accordingly for the battle ahead of them, nothing will surprise them. without any expectations, one takes the journey without the emotional setbacks and letdowns that would occur otherwise. you're already dead and therefore have nothing to lose... at this level of pure and raw thinking, fear might leave you and you may just find the courage to make what you previously might have regarded as risky changes.

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    Default Re: Depression

    Off topic, but speaking of sardonic humor, check this out: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1245459
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

    It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive. In fact, one doesn't have a choice . In the face of impossible, trying to remain positive is the most challenging and noble thing one can do. That's not phoniness....it's the only game in town. You may think to yourself, it can't get any worse than this so why even try., But I assure you, it can get worse. Neglecting to try means the difference between mere tragedy and absolute hell...........

    I was too busy indulging this depression. And that's an enormous mistake, with unforgiving ramifications.

    Your singing my song, except I'm still working with my... teacher? and learning more than I'm comfortable too (but what challenge is comfortable?). I find aspects of our situations very fascinating, though we are deeply divided by experiential differences (context); I do think we share an archetypal struggle.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Moderator Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I had this ex girlfriend who was always asking me , what are you thinking?

    It always caught me off guard. It made me uncomfortable. I'd actually struggle to arrive at anything and would usually offer up something glib or silly to wriggle out of answering. But she wouldn't let it go. I'd answer, and she'd inevitably say no, what are you *really* thinking? And we'd go round in circles like that...

    She fancied herself an intuitive and a witch. And I couldn't help but occasionally think, what the hell does she think I'm hiding? Is she seeing something I'm not quite in touch with? I got a little neurotic about it, honestly.

    We fought frequently. I always felt I was winning these fights, and as I was smugly revelling in my victory, she'd say this: "Mike you're a total phony and you don't even know it."

    And suddenly I'd revert back to being 6 years old after my sister called me a "poopyhead" or something. A phony? What do you mean I'm a phony? What the hell are you talking about? And having realized she was successfully under my skin, she would dodge answering directly and remain cryptically annoying about the whole thing. It was infuriating.

    But the gist of it was this: she knew I was prone to bouts of depression and she wanted me to talk about it all the time. She had a similar issue. But our ways of dealing with it were dramatically different - she didn't feel a conversation was really worthwhile unless it was deadly serious and addressing all the heavy stuff in one's life, whereas I like to joke around a great deal to keep my head above water. I enjoy what you might call "deep" conversation, but it exhausts me over time if it's the exclusive mood of the dialogue.

    So, at worst she thought I was glib and superficial and phony.....and I thought she was arrogant and sanctimonious and dry. We broke up maybe 6 months ago or so, but I've carried her accusations with me. In weaker moments I'd think, sh!t, maybe she's right...maybe I am a phony.

    But I've since had a revelation....
    The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

    It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive. In fact, one doesn't have a choice . In the face of impossible, trying to remain positive is the most challenging and noble thing one can do. That's not phoniness....it's the only game in town. You may think to yourself, it can't get any worse than this so why even try., But I assure you, it can get worse. Neglecting to try means the difference between mere tragedy and absolute hell.

    I understand that there are forms of depression that leave one feeling incapable of anything...even getting out of bed. Been there. But looking back over my life, I can see that there were openings, there were opportunities to improve my situation, even in the darkest moments....but I rarely took them. I was too busy indulging this depression. And that's an enormous mistake, with unforgiving ramifications.

    Theres a difference between being in denial about ones mental state and simply choosing not to indulge it 24 hours a day. My ex indulged her depression constantly because it gave her the perfect excuse to avoid the responsibility of at least trying to improve. It justified all her fears and shortcomings. It allowed her to sit on her butt and play the victim. Its all she ever focused on. She ridiculed my attempts at positivity because it revealed her weaknesses to her, and acknowledging that might have forced her to give an honest effort in life. She called me a phony but couldn't see how hypocritical that statement was.

    Ah, I feel better now. It's 5:18 am, and having finally articulated that to myself in a clear fashion, maybe I can sleep now. Wish me luck.

    The solution for me is neither talking endlessly or putting on a happy face, the solution is living in this very moment without judgement of it. Am I able to do that every moment of every day? No, but when I do, it has more of a freeing effect than all of the conditions in this world, good or bad and actually allows the space for inner contentment that beats being happy and upbeat any day. As a person that has strong depressive tendencies I have tried it all, the talking, the therapy, the antidepressants, new age mumbo jumbo, the happy face where everything is "fine". Staying in the present moment and not judging it surpasses by far, everything I have tried all put together. That's not to say I haven't had rebellion from my ego, playing endless tapes of self righteousness, victim hood and negativity, but like anything else, if you work at practicing staying in the moment and non judgement it gets easier and easier.

    The weird thing is about living in the present moment without judgement, does not have to be a religious or spiritual thing, it is a skill that you can learn and master like anything else, the secret is to be persistent.
    Last edited by Pam; 2nd September 2018 at 14:37.

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    Moderator Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Lately I was always tired, waking up fine and then, 2 hours later, tired, depressed. I was finding it strange and decided to have a check up - thyroid, blood, etc. The md asked for anemia (low level of red blood cells - they do not test iron) and other stuff. Nothing came through.

    I had to see my endocrinologist (diabetis) and have a blood test for her. I myself added up on the requisition "iron", which she had not requested.

    Well, guess what, my iron level was much too low, despite having more red cells than normal (not anemic following standards). No iron= tiredness and depressive moods. Slowly recovering with iron supplements.

    a side note: if you are ever poisoned by something, and tell our doctor you think you are poisoned, the western doctors will not take that into account and put you on anti-depressant, which solves nothing. Eastern or African doctors will believe you and do the appropriate cures following symptoms. In Eastern and African cultures, poison is regularly used to get rid of people. In the west, it is not our arms of choice....

    Now looking in hindsight, I have had apathic periods throughout my life where I was depressed. I did lack iron 4 years ago and had to take supplements, and now again. I am now figuring that I may have had this problem throughout my life, but it was never corrected prior to 4 years ago. If I would have had those test about iron at an early age, I may have had a much better life altogether.

    I do think that lots of depressive states are due to chronic lack of something essential in the body.

    i do think that thorough check up, real thorough, like the elite may have, would help find out what are the deficiencies and correct it.

    Anti depressors are fine on a temporary level, but extremely hard to get rid of once we are on (I took some for 3 years during divorce and while learning about my daughter's handicaps) and let it go afterwards, it took me a whole year to weane myself of it, going slowly. It was still a roller coaster ride.

    One thing I do take when depressed is 5HTP (forbidden in England without prescription I think) sold over the counter in America and Canada. It promotes the production of serotonine by the body, without side effects.

    I know this is off topic, but if you have elevated red blood cell levels, the symptom would be low iron, because it is necessary to make red blood cells. If your making a lot of red blood cells your iron will be depleted. You didn't state how elevated your red blood cells are but if it is a significant number the real question would be, why are you making too many red blood cells and are those that you are making healthy ones. If you have lots of healthy red blood cells you would have more energy and stamina, not less, that is why athletes dope with Erythropoetin, to make more red blood cells for increased energy and stamina. Taking iron would not give you more energy in itself, it appears to give you more energy because it helps build red blood cells.

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  33. Link to Post #17
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    Default Re: Depression

    Mike, you answered to everybody who posted in your thread except me,

    it makes me verrrrryyyy depressed!

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  35. Link to Post #18
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Mike, you answered to everybody who posted in your thread except me,

    it makes me verrrrryyyy depressed!


    Mea culpa Flash. Your next bottle of 5htp is on me

    I know you're joking, but I honestly do try to respond to everyone who takes the time the post on my threads. Sometimes it takes me a while. I'll often circle back to see who or what I may have missed and comment later (confession: i'm a norotious skim reader). Or I'll begin responding and fall asleep with my phone on my chest (like I did last night)

    You're absolutely right about the connection between depression and nutrition. I've read stories where someone was at their wits end, and on a whim tried something almost at random, like selenium or something, and turned their whole problem around.

    Low energy = low mood. Raise the energy and raise the mood. I've always suspected that energy enhancers like coq10, carnitine, and ribose might make great, all natural anti depressants. Turned out to be true, for me anyway.

    But people like my sister, for example, don't respond to any of the herbs or supps I've read about. For a year now, her brain has resisted all my attempts at improvement. She finally relented and tried medication; it helped her tremendously and caused me to rethink my dogmatic approach to pharmaceuticals.

    Jordan Peterson's daughter, Mikhaila, was near death with all sorts of ailments (crushing depression, auto immune disease, amongst other things) until she adopted an all beef diet. That sounds sorta nuts, but the answers to these things are often not what we might expect

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  37. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: Depression

    Actuarian 108 seems to have treated people with depression successfully, going to soul levels.

    Maybe should we read his/her book.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1245547

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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Depression

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Actuarian 108 seems to have treated people with depression successfully, going to soul levels.

    Maybe should we read his/her book.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1245547
    FYI: Arcturian108’s website and her books are listed (in members only).

    Last edited by RunningDeer; 2nd September 2018 at 20:44.

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