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Thread: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    Women's health hasn't been talked about much on Avalon, but with the Republicans coming into power now, perhaps it will be getting more attention, since they have traditionally been much more willing to take away a woman's right to control her own reproduction.
    In the clip highlighted here: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...mpression=true
    ...of Kavanaugh answering Ted Cruz's questions at the recent confirmation hearing, Kavanaugh refers to birth control as "abortion inducing drugs".
    Perhaps he was just nervous abd confused--I'm sure there will be lots of excuses made for that mistake, and some of them legitimate, but it may also be indicative of a hostile attitude towards birth control and abortion (he's against it, I believe), and should not pass unnoticed.
    Women had to fight long and hard for Roe vs Wade, and however crazy the Left has become, I hope that fight will not turn out to be for naught.
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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    What I'm about to say may not be popular, but it's how I feel.

    If a woman chooses to have an abortion and she (and/or the putative father) are willing and able to pay for that themselves, then that is their (or her) choice. (We'll leave the rights of the putative father out of this for now, but in general the man has very few rights with respect to the choice of an abortion or not.)

    Where I begin to have issues is in cases where the woman (and/or the putative father) cannot afford an abortion and look to the state or federal government to pay for it. That is, they want the cost to be socialized. In those cases, I do not disagree with what is still federal law. Federal Medicaid money may only be used to pay for an abortion in three situations: 1) to save the life of the woman, 2) in cases of rape, or 3) in cases of incest.

    Many states, however, do not follow the federal law and do not limit the use of medicare and public funds to these situations. Rather, if a medical doctor says an abortion is "medically necessary", many states will use public funds to pay for it. Some states require that the woman meet certain financial qualifications demonstrating an inability to pay for an abortion. Others do not.

    Abortion has also become a divide and conquer and keep divided and conquered wedge issue. This too is by design.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    It seems almost all of the women I know that have had abortions, have not just had one or two.

    So what about the women that have had a dozen or more? In effect using it as a form of birth control. This is the 21st century. Never before has there been so many means of preventing pregnancies in the first place.

    One of my best friends was a surgical nurse. She promptly switched from being firmly pro choice to pro life the first time she had to assist in a abortion. Itís a very disturbing procedure.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    It is one of the most polarizing issues of our time. Why aren't we as polarized about starving children, abused children, forgotten children who are already here?

    I think the government should stay out of it until they prove they actually care about the humans who are already here.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    Pardon me for stating the obvious, Satori, but when a woman can't afford to pay for an abortion, the state is saving a whole lot of tax payer money by paying for it, because otherwise in such cases, it's very likely the state will end up paying for much else besides as the child grows up in poverty.
    Abortion certainly is a disturbing procedure, which is why birth control should be free to those who need it, and education about reproduction should be readily available to all.

    I had an unplanned pregnancy when I was in my early 20s and unmarried, despite the fact that I was using birth control.
    I knew I would not be able to support a child and that the father would not, so I went to an abortion clinic but could not go through with it because the energy there was just horrible, and a big part of the reason for that was that it was so underfunded.
    But what happened to me after having the child and placing him for adoption was really horrible too.
    It wasn't long after that that I nearly lost my life getting hit by a drunk driver, and I know that that happened because I was so vulnerable and still recovering from the whole ordeal of childbirth, adoption, etc., so I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    Abortion is not an easy choice for most women, though I have known of cases where women seemed to feel their only role of any value in life is to give birth, and that is a kind of mental illness that needs treatment. (Not that I would trust our "modern" mental health system to do a good job of that.)
    Until we have a global culture that makes sense and is organized to be sustainable, I think we need to at least be able to keep the population to as sustainable a number as we can.
    I think the NWO have a point there, though they are certainly going about it all wrong.
    To say the least....

    I attended classes for a few years at the Berkeley Psychic Institute, where the classes were taught by talented psychics, and they staffed psychic midwives at their midwifery clinic.
    They said that when they looked at what was going on at abortion clinics during protests was very interesting.
    There would be scores of what they called "baby beings" there, unborn spirits in between incarnations waiting to be provided with a body.
    The psychics said the baby beings would incite people to riot because the beings wanted to prevent abortion from being made legal, which certainly makes sense, as they were all in the market for a new body to be born into.
    But they also said that a lot of the protest about abortion is not well founded, because baby beings can choose to leave the fetus of a woman who is about to have an abortion before it happens, and find another body to incarnate into, so they don't have to experience any physical pain under the surgical knife.
    That all seemed very obviously true, and I had no reason to doubt the psychics' word, because the midwives during their clinics could read what the mothers were experiencing quite accurately and could hear what the baby beings were telling them as well.
    They also said that parents and baby beings would ideally have pre-incarnation agreements, but in some cases, rogue baby beings can succeed in fighting and winning a battle on the spirit plane and supplant the baby being who had the agreement with the parents-to-be.
    And in those cases, often the mother would sense that it was not the child she wanted to have and so would opt for an abortion.
    In their view, that especially was very much within permissible karmic law to choose.
    It's a much more complex issue than most people realize, needless to say...

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    What I'm about to say may not be popular, but it's how I feel.

    If a woman chooses to have an abortion and she (and/or the putative father) are willing and able to pay for that themselves, then that is their (or her) choice. (We'll leave the rights of the putative father out of this for now, but in general the man has very few rights with respect to the choice of an abortion or not.)

    Where I begin to have issues is in cases where the woman (and/or the putative father) cannot afford an abortion and look to the state or federal government to pay for it. That is, they want the cost to be socialized. In those cases, I do not disagree with what is still federal law. Federal Medicaid money may only be used to pay for an abortion in three situations: 1) to save the life of the woman, 2) in cases of rape, or 3) in cases of incest.

    Many states, however, do not follow the federal law and do not limit the use of medicare and public funds to these situations. Rather, if a medical doctor says an abortion is "medically necessary", many states will use public funds to pay for it. Some states require that the woman meet certain financial qualifications demonstrating an inability to pay for an abortion. Others do not.

    Abortion has also become a divide and conquer and keep divided and conquered wedge issue. This too is by design.
    Last edited by onawah; 7th September 2018 at 23:28.
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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    A small comment Sarori:incest IS rape, the worst kind of rape

    Abortion laws and prices and state involvement or not are quite different from countries to contries c

    From what I know, in Canada, abortion is free, and most women ard using other means of contraception, which are also basically free (we have gov. Sponsored medication insurance in Quebec). So, with basically free contraception, abortion is pretty much the last choice, mainly because of accidents or because teenagers are still ignorant about it.

    When a teenager is aborted, upon her acceptance, an IUD is installed, covering the next 5 years.

    If abortion is paid by the state but contraceptives are not, could it be why poor girls or those with strict parents would get pregnant, not being able to afford contraception?

    If this is the case, arenít the girls too poor or too young to raise a child by themselves? Why throw newborns into poverty because we do not want to help the female kids getting pregnant?

    The discussion is vastly different if we talk of working women who are not amongst the working poors.

    And let me tell you, if the other half of rhe population were caught with the same problem, it would have been solved long ago, males would not accept to be told what to do or not to do with their body.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    Amen, sister!
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    And let me tell you, if the other half of rhe population were caught with the same problem, it would have been solved long ago, males would not accept to be told what to do or not to do with their body.
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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion


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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    He does not destroy abortion arguments, he just invent something the proponent ne ver said

    He is gross, and his voice is yeyyr! When he will have a daughter caught in an unwanted pregnancy, only then may he become empathetic to women. And still...
    Last edited by Flash; 8th September 2018 at 08:09.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Amen, sister!
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    And let me tell you, if the other half of rhe population were caught with the same problem, it would have been solved long ago, males would not accept to be told what to do or not to do with their body.
    Wowwww. (Jake slaps forehead and leaves the room.)
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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    What most people fail to grasp is that abortion law should be a stateís choice. The federal government has, like in so many cases, no business in this and Roe should be struck down as a result.

    I also find it ironic that globalist elite and the corporations and governments they control want to eliminate borders and welcome millions of refugees for cheap labor while at the same time allowing the killing of millions of unborn babies.

    Oh, and Iím pro choice and pro life.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    All of those laws were made before women were allowed to vote, as to who had what rights. Comparatively, it's still only a very recent development that women, even in the West, can even safely express their opinion. It will take a long time for all those wounds to heal.
    Quote Posted by mpennery (here)
    What most people fail to grasp is that abortion law should be a stateís choice. The federal government has, like in so many cases, no business in this and Roe should be struck down as a result.

    I also find it ironic that globalist elite and the corporations and governments they control want to eliminate borders and welcome millions of refugees for cheap labor while at the same time allowing the killing of millions of unborn babies.

    Oh, and Iím pro choice and pro life.

    Matt
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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    This is such a tricky issue and there are many elements to it.

    Halfway through my longest relationship an ex of mine had a miscarriage luckily. i day luckily insofar as she was exploring the idea of abortion and and having consultations at the time was 2 months pregnant. In the end she didn't have to make the choice due to miscarrying the child. At the time I completely supported her right to choose what direction to go in...I have to say I have conflicting views on this, but I really don't feel comfortable with late term abortions in particular...

    Last edited by David Trd1; 9th September 2018 at 00:00.
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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    I just have to comment on this (I just viewed this video). I admire the courage of this physician and was horrified at the same time.

    There is a case in Ohio of a young high school girl who found herself pregnant. She lives in a small town in Ohio, a town in which many of my own relatives now reside. By all accounts, this young girl is/was an exemplary student (honors student), cheerleader and volunteered at the local YMCA, working with children. By all accounts, a good kid from a good family. But she had one big problem that no one outside her immediate family, knew much about.

    She was anorexic. I've not seen the pictures of her when she was at her thinnest, but I've read that her parents have provided some of those pics to various sources. Her parents state this young girl wouldn't even chew a stick of gum because she was worried about the calories. Her parents did everything they could do to try to help her, to no avail.

    But suddenly, this young girl started gaining weight. By the time of her last prom, she appeared in a photo in a beautiful form fitting red gown. She looked gorgeous. But she was hiding something. Her parents rejoiced over how well she looked! She looked vibrant and healthy. They never suspected a thing.

    She was pregnant. But in that photo, a photo I just saw yesterday, you would never, ever dream that she was pregnant. She had this teeny, tiny tummy on her in that pic (which was forward faced). In no way could ANYONE know when viewing that picture of this lovely girl, that she was not only pregnant, but would give birth just two days later.

    This young girl states she did not realize she was pregnant until shortly before she gave birth. She explains that she'd had her period throughout the entire length of her pregnancy. She states she gave birth to her baby daughter in her upstairs bedroom and afterwards, cradled her daughter for approximately three hours, waiting for her daughter to 'wake up.' Her daughter, she states, was stillborn. When it became apparent to this young woman that her baby was dead, she took the child outside to their backyard and with a small spade, proceeded to dig her grave. She placed the child into that grave; she named her Annabelle.

    Later, this young woman admitted to her gynecologist what had happened. Authorities were called, the police came to this young woman's home, questioned her, then arrested her for MURDER. The prosecutor had been, until fairly recently, all over social media, with claims that this young girl murdered her child and that she defiled her baby prior to its death. Finally, the judge in this case put a gag order on all of whom are immediately involved w/this case. The trial, I believe, will be held at some point later this year, or the following.

    But here's my point: I believe this girl; I do NOT believe she murdered her daughter. I have read numbers of cases wherein young mothers have literally tried flushing their newborns down the toilet, threw their babies into dumpsters and/or otherwise disposed of their newborns. Just horrific cases. This young girl did not do this. She stated repeatedly that she held her baby for hours, waiting for her to "open her eyes." When it was clear her daughter was stillborn, she found a spade and buried her daughter. She named her baby Annabelle.

    I am not condoning what this girl did. And clearly, for whatever the reason, she didn't feel comfortable or able to go to her parents once she realized she was pregnant. Her parents are understandably devastated. They have since stated (before the gag order was in place) that they would have been completely supportive of their daughter, had they known. This poor family has been stalked and absolutely vilified in the press in this small town in Ohio; the mom is now on anti-depressants. They've had to deal with stalkers, one in particular - a woman who has started a Facebook page, calling them all sorts of names and blaming the mom for the most part. It's an absolute tragedy all around.

    How on earth is it possible, in this country, to allow LEGAL abortions such as the one this physician speaks about in the above video, yet we have a young girl who (I believe) gave birth to a stillborn child, buried her, named her, but is now being labeled a MURDERER by the prosecutor involved with her case. This is just unconscionable.

    I understand that initially, someone who claimed to have participated in this baby's autopsy stated that the child had been burned, but that statement was later retracted. There was no proof whatsoever that this baby had been abused prior to its death. In fact, this young girl's attorneys are stating that there is dispute as to the actual stage of gestation of this child prior to its birth.

    Mark my words, I agree with appropriate punishment for those who have truly committed despicable crimes. But in THIS case - this just really, really upsets me. I also believe, very much so, in forgiveness, compassion and understanding -- ALL of which this poor family and young girl deserve at this time. They need help and guidance to help them get through this horrific nightmare. I've viewed a couple of videos and have read statements by others in this family, who have expressed outrage at the treatment of this young girl by this prosecutor (Warren County). I don't know what this man's agenda is, but he's angling for something -- perhaps a future bid in a political race.

    When I think of some of our top political parties who have absolutely committed some of the most heinous of crimes and yet, they run free to this day, and then look at this case of this young girl who made a huge mistake and is now looking at the possibility of a lifetime in prison, the mind just boggles.

    This makes me FURIOUS.

    So I think of this young girl as I read through this thread and I just had to post this comment (sorry for the length). I find it incredible that the abortion of a baby is perfectly legal at the time one can feel it move inside the womb, etc. LISTEN to what this physician states if you've not viewed this video. It's horrific.

    I pray for this young girl and her family. I hope justice is truly served when all is said and done. And I hope that some day, this girl is able to get her life back on track and perhaps do some good out there for others who find themselves in her shoes.
    Last edited by Bayareamom; 9th September 2018 at 03:35.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    I hope I haven't derailed this thread too much; sorry for the length. But this issue with this girl and abortion, to me, are intertwined. It's perfectly legal to murder a baby and that's okay, but this young girl who made a horrific mistake, is labeled not only a murderer, but is looking at the very real possibility of life in prison.

    I once knew a young paralegal who came right out and told me she'd had several abortions. So essentially she was using abortion as her method of birth control.

    I used to consider myself to be pro abortion/women's right to choose. I am now pro life.
    Last edited by Bayareamom; 9th September 2018 at 03:37.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    re Bayareamom's story above - A very unusual story and circumstance. I don't see it as any type of trend or template for future policy. Ultimately this girl will get much compassion. The case will probably be thrown out and the left will make her a martyr. Because the case is so unusual it creates a legal vacuum which means initial blunders in behavior by the authorities but ultimately she'll be ok.

    In interesting juxtaposition - I just shut off a UFC fight where 2 ladies were brutalizing eachother. The UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) has been in existence sor 25 years but only allowed women in about 4 or 5 years ago. The acceleration of aggression on the part of women has been amazing as has the amount of women trying to join and compete in fighting sports. This now is a trend of culture. If you said the obvious that these women were mimicking men they'd kick your head in, it's self-actualization according to them.

    I can see women in the future wanting to be free of any ability to get pregnant whatsoever. In Brave New World they were sickened by the thought of 'biological' mothers.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    Quote Posted by Bayareamom (here)
    I just have to comment on this (I just viewed this video). I admire the courage of this physician and was horrified at the same time.

    There is a case in Ohio of a young high school girl who found herself pregnant. She lives in a small town in Ohio, a town in which many of my own relatives now reside. By all accounts, this young girl is/was an exemplary student (honors student), cheerleader and volunteered at the local YMCA, working with children. By all accounts, a good kid from a good family. But she had one big problem that no one outside her immediate family, knew much about.

    She was anorexic. I've not seen the pictures of her when she was at her thinnest, but I've read that her parents have provided some of those pics to various sources. Her parents state this young girl wouldn't even chew a stick of gum because she was worried about the calories. Her parents did everything they could do to try to help her, to no avail.

    But suddenly, this young girl started gaining weight. By the time of her last prom, she appeared in a photo in a beautiful form fitting red gown. She looked gorgeous. But she was hiding something. Her parents rejoiced over how well she looked! She looked vibrant and healthy. They never suspected a thing.

    She was pregnant.
    An ex colleague of mine had a 17 years old daughter who was doing lots of competitive sports, never had periods because of the sport, got pregnant and never gain weight.

    She went to her prom and give birth 2 weeks later, not suspecting before a week prior that she was pregnant.

    Finally, the newborn grand father decided to keep daughter and son under his roof and to take care of his grand child so that his daughter could keep going to school.

    These things truly happen.

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    Yes, these things do happen. This young girl's menstrual cycles were so askew due to her anorexia, which completely explains why she was still experiencing her menstrual cycle while pregnant. As I read thru the various articles about this girl's case, my sorrow for her and for her family overwhelmed me. I could feel their pain as I watched them in one particular video, as this girl and her parents entered the courtroom for one of her hearings. It's abundantly clear her family is a genuinely good family, imperfections notwithstanding. I have no idea what the Warren County prosecutor's rants on social media is all about, but it sickens me to my core that he's essentially tried this girl in social media before she's had her due process. This attorney's unprofessional behavior is sickening and is one of the reasons so many in the legal field are vilified for the outrageous behavior of some of its 'finest.'

    I hope, Helene, that you are correct and that true justice is served (all around) in this horrific case. I trust my gut on this one and know in my heart that this girl did not murder her baby. She took too much care over this child after its birth; she obviously cared for her baby, but was overwhelmed with the entire situation. The parents have since stated (prior to the gag order) that they would have definitely supported their daughter, whatever her decision would have been. These parents are devastated; they are now dealing with the fact that they had a granddaughter on the way and knew nothing about it.

    The amount of judgment and ridicule this young girl has had to endure, is unfathomable. At times, my hopes and prayers for the human race are devastated when I see and hear about this type of behavior.

    We need more compassion and understanding in this world...

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    Default Re: Women's health and Kavanaugh's stance on women's health, birth control and abortion

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    All of those laws were made before women were allowed to vote, as to who had what rights. Comparatively, it's still only a very recent development that women, even in the West, can even safely express their opinion. It will take a long time for all those wounds to heal.
    Apologies if I'm practicing a bit of necromancy here, but I keep seeing this stuff about "women's choice" over the life of an unborn baby, and stuff like this just about makes me sick.



    There are some things in life we just can't change, and one of those things is that it's a woman's responsibility to bring new life into the world. But that doesn't mean this kind of crap has to be allowed as a "choice" to "empower women." Allowing stuff like this to go on is too much. There has to be a legitimate medical reason.

    The Twitter account was here but it was already suspended, so I can't read the rest of the conversation: https://twitter.com/xo_bitaa/status/1040292210372014085

    It's not an isolated incident to see this kind of stuff on Twitter. A lot of women, even famous actresses in Hollywood now, go around bragging about their abortions as if it's some accomplishment.

    A bunch of Hollywood actors/actresses even threatened to boycott the state of Georgia recently for criminalizing the abortion of a baby after its heart begins to beat. What is the deal with these people that they are obsessed with killing babies? I mean aside from the obvious, that they're literally Satanic.

    Quote Hollywood's elite threatens Georgia boycott over abortion ban as other states try to poach business

    Members of Hollywood's elite have banded together to urge Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp to veto the state's controversial "heartbeat bill," a piece of legislation that would effectively prohibit women from seeking an abortion after six weeks of pregnancy. Meanwhile, the governors of Pennsylvania and New Jersey have jumped at the opportunity to lure Georgia's entertainment business by advertising their own tax incentives and pro-abortion rights laws.

    A petition started by Alyssa Milano, who's currently in Atlanta shooting for the Netflix show "Insatiable," was signed by more than 100 celebrities, including Amy Schumer, Alec Baldwin and Judd Apatow. Milano wrote that if the bill passed, "we cannot in good conscience continue to recommend our industry remain in Georgia."

    The Writers Guild of America, East and West (WGA) wrote in a letter shared on Twitter that they "urge Gov. Kemp to veto the bill."
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia...-live-updates/
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 17th April 2019 at 05:01.

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