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Thread: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

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    Default What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    I note there are many self described researchers on PA, particularly in the area of conspiracy, deep state, etc...

    My question is what do so called researchers consider valid information? I read claims that are merely opinions backed by statements like, "I am a sovereign and am using my discernment." As in, ipso facto, whatever the commenter feels to be true, must be true.

    So, about legitimate sources...we can all agree that Mainstream media can't always be trusted, particularly in areas of power where they have skin in the game, so obvious bias.

    But what about alternative media? Does mistrusting mainstream media mean you can trust alternative media? Sometimes perhaps, but often not.

    And how about online sources that claim to be insiders in the know, telling their audience they are divulging info that is subversive to governments with elaborate and enhanced means of surveillance? If they were telling the truth, they would be caught and pushing up daisies.

    Just my two cents. Be more skeptical.

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Indian philosophies define valid means of cognition. Personal testimony is one of those. And it's admissible in court.

    If it was debate, it would be a certain process resulting in an outcome--which happens here occasionally.

    The only measuring device that works with what I'm interested in is a human being; metaphysics.

    We're not in court or necessarily having a philosophical debate, and, a pile of facts about external reality is not ultimately what I'm trying to do. This may not be the same kind of research intended by the question, but it is research. With respect to mundane, conventional truths, there is nothing to be trusted, everything must be continually weighed and examined. Believe nothing that is said; scope it out. That is something like an ability or skill that can only be practiced with no guarantee of results.

    For example, we dug out the old Jesuit book that started conspiracy theory, I forget the thread name but it's here somewhere. This does have eight or nine hundred pages of basically facts in it, so as a whole it's true, but I was able to find about three sneaky things that Jesuits do, which showed the bias of the book. Long story short, the Bavarian Illuminati comes out a redeemed society, which I probably would have joined if I were in the circumstances of the time. There are blatant errors in a school of thought mostly spun from a Jesuit and Nesta Webster. This is something which may be hard to see unless honing your senses first.

    One of the closest approaches I have found is Institute for Study of Globalization and Covert Politics which winds up doing the same and erasing the "eye over the pyramid" various people have suggested. It subsequently then disposes with most of the celebrities and some insiders. At the same time, for a vault of facts, it is massive. I don't know that I'd endorse 100% of everything there, but is a great example of someone going at it with a scalpel the way I would if that was my line of research.

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    It's a great question, And an important one, too.

    Not knowing this thread was here, I posted this in response to another question on the QAnon Opposing Viewpoint thread an hour or so ago:
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Richard Dolan has said it well: as a serious researcher, he needs to know who someone is, when they're presenting information that they are urging us to believe.

    That means we need to know their real name, their background, have sight of their DD214 if they were in the US military, and as much documentary evidence as possible.

    Without those things, a campfire story (as Richard calls it) may be interesting, and should be noted, but NOT counted as meaningful evidence.

    And to say it's just the same as the other guy's campfire story, means nothing.

    If it wouldn't count in a court of law, it shouldn't count in our court, either.

    Again, 'campfire stories' (unprovable claims) should maybe be heard, remembered, noted, and not erased from the public record. Unless it's an almost certainly established psy-op, they shouldn't be censored or silenced. There's value in considering them as potentially real.

    But more is needed if important decisions are to be made. Otherwise, it's a mixture of entertainment, and preaching from a pulpit.

    And in both those instances, the people are kept captive as an audience, may be inspired and fed with hope, but ultimately they may be disempowered, as they are mere observers. They're doing nothing at all, and it's really just more TV. (And the Secret Space program so-called 'whistleblowers' do this, too.)
    ~~~

    But that's more about evidence, and which submissions of evidence are credible.

    Research means more than just looking something up on Google. Or reading part of a book, or subscribing to a newsletter. That's the simple part.

    It means then:
    • Checking to see where that came from; and if it did come from somewhere/someone else, whether it's been altered. Original sources are REALLY important.
    • Checking the evidence offered by those making claims in any format. Check THAT for accuracy or distortion (or, sometimes, invention).
    • Follow up on bibliographies or references. See where they lead to.
    • Make good notes of your investigative travels, so you can always later retrace your steps if you need to know where something came from.
    • Finding out who the person was who wrote the piece (or recorded the media), and then seeing who they are, and what else they've done.
    • Then check others who've commented or responded, to see what others are saying about or how they're critiquing what you're considering.
    • Pay attention to skeptics. You can learn a lot from the arguments they offer. Maybe 99% of what they say is nonsense. What if that other 1% is a really good point?
    Then ideally, if you can, and if you're a serious researcher:
    • Consult other researchers in the same field. Offer collaboration. Maybe they've looked into this before. Maybe you know things they don't, at this stage.
    • Contact some of the people mentioned in the area you're researching. Call them up. Or write to them. Or ask for an interview, on or off record.
    • Visit the places (or see the documents) that have been referred to. (This is real investigative footwork, now, and of course not everyone can do this.)
    What does this mean? Well, 'research' is a loose term. Someone who sits at home and watches YouTube videos — even a lot of them! — very probably isn't a true researcher. We can easily kid ourselves we're 'doing research' when really we're just watching the YouTube alt media equivalent of entertaining TV.

    Show me your notes, tell me in your own words what you just read or saw or heard and want to check out next (a research plan is needed, btw) — and then start to assemble jigsaw pieces, testing each one to see if and how it might fit: then, maybe, that might start it.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 10th September 2018 at 06:33.

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    IMO there is very little research in the alt media. Even little lose research, that we talk of Bill's views on it or Shaberon, research is almost non existent.

    And we know who are doing real research, such as Linda Moulton Howe, Joseph Farrel, the Dark Journalist, and a few more.

    It seem to me that there were much more research done in the late 90's early 2000 than there is now. Now we are in a "he told me, she said, I've read, I saw a video' reporting, not real research.

    I do think the real researchers, the scientists who know things, the reporters who could research, those who could prove they experienced something, exist, but they do not come to the surface of the alt media anymore.

    One reason I think is that most lay person listening/looking at alternative media are not trained anymore to be easily able to do critical analysis and critical thinking on one hand (public de-education is giving results), and the much greater access to the large public that is not very trained in analysis makes it more filled with non processed, not analysed soup of comment, fake histories, name it.

    On the other hand, PTB has done everything and is still doing everything to mix the information with disinformation. A very keen eye is necessary to differentiate truth, which I often do not have myself.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    I think the legitimacy depends on the individual accessing the results as well.

    Academic vs Armchair research, for example.

    The spirit is the same, but the intensity and purpose may be slightly different.

    In a sense, the forum is a kind of peer review.

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    #1: Military documents
    #2: Government documents
    #3: Dated documents

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Well, the most difficult part is expanding your material to what you believe won't defend your point to begin with, but it's really important to listen to everyone and read everything.

    Looking at the internet today, not only is it getting harder and harder to prove anything based on research, I believe most people out there don't really want to know the truth, but rather listen to what they want to hear, and I trust the majority won't find the truth appealing for one bit, sadly.

    Also, remeber that even if you are confident on your research, and believe it to be accurate, you will always find opposition no matter how well you prove your case, so sometimes even the best research won't acomplish anything more than that good fuzzy feeling inside for a job well done and the fact you actually know something of value... that no one will believe anyway

    A quote to inspire researchers, by Mark Twain (allegedly): "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Evidence helps vs just hear say.

    The ability to gather and analyze different types of evidence is one of the most important competencies for anyone who conducts investigations. There are many types of evidence that help the investigator make decisions during a case, even if they aren’t direct proof of an event or claim.

    The first rule is that evidence must be relevant to the investigation. If it is not directly related to the case it isn’t relevant evidence. That said, there are many types of evidence that, while not admissible in court, can be valuable to an investigator trying to reach a conclusion in a workplace investigation or other non-criminal investigation. And even some evidence that is not admissible on its own may be admissible in conjunction with other types of evidence.

    15 Types of Evidence and How to Use Them
    Evidence comes in many forms, and even if it’s not admissible in court it can still be relevant to a case and provide valuable insight during an investigation

    https://i-sight.com/resources/15-typ...investigation/

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Personally, my approach is taking what is truth. What does this mean? Who has the monopoly on the use of force? The State.

    So what the State says is true is truth. Now is this state truth also Truth? Not sure. Maybe, Sometimes.

    But it doesnt matter because when they can put you in prison for what they say is true, then that is the truth that matters.

    So what is the most important thing? You probably could have guessed what I am about to say based on what I post: Government documents or government sponsored documents.

    However, this is only because my primary focus is on changing the American Corporate Imperium.

    How many have actually read the patriot act, the church committee reports, the report on correspondent banking, the 9-11 commission report, the warren commission report? How many laws have you read?
    At least if you want to talk intelligently about politics, this seems a necessary starting point.

    If you havent read what the government says is reality, then how does one dispute that reality?

    Did you know that the CIA retirement budget in 2018 was almost as large as the budget for the entire yearly operations of the intelligence community itself?


    As for Aliens and what not, you take in as much information as you can and check with your personal experiences. Once you have an extraordinary experience, you do not really need research, you need understanding. When ya ll have a method for this part, let me know

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Excellent comments. Thank you! It is fair to declare you have 'personal sovereignty' when it comes to rejecting others interpretation of your own personal experience. This encompasses the spiritual which is almost purely experiential. It gets dicier in the interpersonal, where a personal interpretation of experience must be shared and consensus generated as to what is 'true.'

    When it comes to the political it's of little use to declare something true or false based on feeling alone. And as groups are emotionally swayed more easily than individuals, through emotional synergy, it is particularly difficult but imperative to be much more intellectually rigorous.

    Bill's description of stories told around the camp fire is really apt. There is nothing wrong with them. Scary stories told around the campfire are particularly exhilarating, because we enjoy being just a bit freaked out. And sometimes the stories turn out to be partially true, so they fulfill some purpose and need within that context.

    As long as people realize that their computer screens approximate the glow of a campfire and what comes out of YouTube should almost be approached with a can of beans or marshmallows to roast, it's all good! Just please, after one of those nights where you sit around that digital campfire with a billion other people, don't declare yourself a 'sovereign' and the videos correct because you used your 'discernment.'

    The use of the word 'discernment' is inversely proportional to how much actual discernment a person possesses.

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Simply put, "Don't believe everything you think".

    Correlate, correlate, correlate.

    But by and large I have a man crush on Alex Jones that is of gigantic proportions and the fact he is currently being banned from all popular platforms is a pretty good indicator he is on to something.
    The conquering of self is truly greater than were one to conquer many worlds.
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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    ...A very keen eye is necessary to differentiate truth, which I often do not have myself.
    This here!

    I operate under a "trust no one" mentality, that I simply cannot get out of. People are fallible... maybe that's why.

    Me believing something is true tends to revolves a lot on other people agreeing that it's true. If I don't understand the research, but two or three of my friends to and think that it's valid, I'll tend to give it some points.

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Simply put, "Don't believe everything you think".

    Correlate, correlate, correlate.

    But by and large I have a man crush on Alex Jones that is of gigantic proportions and the fact he is currently being banned from all popular platforms is a pretty good indicator he is on to something.
    No matter how much you love him, don't send him a valentine. It'll make him paranoid. What he would really like is for all that love to come out of your wallet in the form of cash for his natural balms and ointments. Doesn't he have survivalist Chapstick called ApocaLIPS?

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Simply put, "Don't believe everything you think".

    Correlate, correlate, correlate.

    But by and large I have a man crush on Alex Jones that is of gigantic proportions and the fact he is currently being banned from all popular platforms is a pretty good indicator he is on to something.
    No matter how much you love him, don't send him a valentine. It'll make him paranoid. What he would really like is for all that love to come out of your wallet in the form of cash for his natural balms and ointments. Doesn't he have survivalist Chapstick called ApocaLIPS?

    He was demonitized from youtube and paypal before he was deplatformed across the board.

    The guy has to make money and yet he hasn't sold out and endorsed any unsavory products nor will he allow said unsavory products to be advertised on his show.

    Ethically the guy has been about as good as could be wished for while trying to maintain the ability to reach a large audience.

    ApocaLIPS was pretty funny though.
    If you came up with that you should copyright it.
    The conquering of self is truly greater than were one to conquer many worlds.
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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Great summaries, very good. Now I remember why I am not a journalist, for one. Doesn't interest me to do the digging (thank the stars for others who do!).

    But....

    There is another type of research. One in where a desired result is developed from basic principles, then tested and modified until the machine, program, process delivers the requirement. There is also another type of research. This one is where an outcome of an experiment is not understood and it is tested for certain effects to determine the cause of the observation and a possible use of the phenomena.

    I like that sort of research much more...

    There are many sorts of legitimate research but those that wish to set their ideas in stone must have the criteria as outlined above, especially in Bill's post - verifiability is the name of the game in any field where reliability is paramount.
    Why Not?

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    I’d say all research is valid, but research is only “legitimised” when it’s used to discover new fields within the hard (natural) sciences—or if the purpose of your research is to learn how to master one of the existing hard sciences, that’s also legitimate.

    Quote According to the Science Council: "Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence." The Council goes on to describe the Scientific Method:

    Objective observation:
    • Measurement and data (possibly although not necessarily using mathematics as a tool)
    • Evidence
    • Experiment and/or observation as benchmarks for testing hypotheses
    • Induction: reasoning to establish general rules or conclusions drawn from facts or examples
    • Repetition
    • Critical analysis
    • Verification and testing: critical exposure to scrutiny, peer review, and assessment
    A subject like psychology for instance, usually regarded as a soft (theoretical) science, can be transitioned into a hard science through the study of neuroscience and other dynamics of repeatable and provable aspects of human behaviour, and seeing how well the theories match up to the dynamics and mechanics of the natural world.

    One of the tenets in Hawaiian Huna is: “Effectiveness is the measure of Truth”. Legitimate research produces wisdom, and since “wisdom is the application of knowledge”, if your research produces no viable utility within the dynamics of the real world, then, it’s possible you might be barking up the wrong tree. It’s the pragmatic approach to research that appeals to me.

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Having had my former Belief System blown out of the water, I am very much into learning new things! Avalon keeps expanding my mind & it's wonderful to keep learning things I would never have known existed due to the closed mindset I was a part of for most of my life.

    Alex Jones....I have never really "followed" him, but after listening to a video posted by Houman recently(Christopher Bollyn), I have to conclude the state of the world is far more complicated that we can even imagine.

    I guess one "proof" of authenticity would be that if certain videos keep getting erased from ThemTube, you can figure it is accurate material that "they" don't want out there!!

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Foxie, I was thinking the same thing this morning about being "erased". If someone or something is being erased by the ptb, then odds are they have something of value or truth.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    ...A very keen eye is necessary to differentiate truth, which I often do not have myself.
    This here!

    I operate under a "trust no one" mentality, that I simply cannot get out of. People are fallible... maybe that's why.

    Me believing something is true tends to revolves a lot on other people agreeing that it's true. If I don't understand the research, but two or three of my friends to and think that it's valid, I'll tend to give it some points.
    The motto of the CIA is "Trust but verify"

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    Default Re: What Constitutes Legitimate "Research"

    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
    I guess one "proof" of authenticity would be that if certain videos keep getting erased from ThemTube, you can figure it is accurate material that "they" don't want out there!!
    "ThemTube" is hilarious... thanks for that, I'm keeping a copy of that word for myself :-)

    The "value" of something can be partially determined by what one is willing to do to defend it, and if they defend it with all they got, must be pretty valuable, eh?

    Sadly I cannot find any kind of videos as proof, except maybe ones which explain things. Videos of ghosts, aliens, ufo's don't sway me. Even if I saw something odd with my own eyeballs, I'd be dubious. Need more witnesses!

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