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Thread: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Brian/Fellow Aspirant

    If you posted that to show once again that 'Snopes' is a fraud and a CIA asset, well, that didn't come through.

    If, on the other hand, you believe this is true, please start a thread about your belief that the white helmets are good guys. Maybe another thread about believing Snopes.


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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    If, on the other hand, you believe this is true, please start a thread about your belief that the white helmets are good guys. Maybe another thread about believing Snopes.
    Once again, Dennis, you have demonstrated that you would be far better suited to being a moderator on this forum than I am. My tongue is too sharp, and my restraint too shallow.

    Thanks for the good suggestions to Brian/Fellow Aspirant.
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    Canada Avalon Member Fellow Aspirant's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Brian/Fellow Aspirant

    If you posted that to show once again that 'Snopes' is a fraud and a CIA asset, well, that didn't come through.

    If, on the other hand, you believe this is true, please start a thread about your belief that the white helmets are good guys. Maybe another thread about believing Snopes.
    Actually, Dennis, my post was to demonstrate that there is a basic truth to the White Helmet reality with respect to the ongoing Russian/Syrian collusion. In other words, I am not among those who have drunk from the ocean of Kool-Aid proffered by the Russian propaganda machine. I much prefer the work of established western news organizations (including Snopes) to ANYTHING with the letters RT attached. It is my belief that Putin and Assad are committing war crimes against Syrian civilians. Nea, they have committed, are continuing to commit and will in the future commit crimes against humanity.

    The issue here is not whether the White Hats are "good guys". (Clearly, to me at least, they bring desperately needed humanitarian aid.) The issue is whether or not one believes the lies being told by TPTB in order to prepare the way for the coming atrocities in Idlib. The propaganda campaign is a small prophylactic against possible complaints by people in civilized countries who object to the ongoing extermination of thousands of innocent civilians who are the collateral damage as Assad prosecutes his war against a few thousand rebels.

    The issue of whether the White Hats actually exist has been hashed out on this board for quite some time and, as far as I can see, is polarized into two irreconcilable camps. Your invitation to me to wade further into this quagmire is not, in my view, a genuine request for further dialogue, but merely a way to deflect my criticism into yet another swamp of claims and counterclaims from which there is no realistic hope of resolution. So, thanks but no thanks.

    The antipathy towards Snopes is another well established phenomenon around here; Paul in particular having a long history of bearing a torch for the pitchfork wielding mob. Why would I ever start such a thread? It would be immediately howled down and stuffed into one of the existing areas of such contention. I have extensively researched this organization and its critics and have come up with no credible proof of it being allied with the C.I.A. or any other deep state organization. As such, I will continue to cite its information in my dealings with the truth.

    We will have to agree to disagree, I think. And for this stance I offer no links or research or quotations. I am entitled to my fully formed opinion, and so are you.

    Brian

    P.S. Way to pile on, Paul.
    Last edited by Fellow Aspirant; 13th September 2018 at 14:31.
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    MP attacked for urging UK not to rely on 'intel from terrorists' in event of a Syrian 'chemical attack'

    RT
    Thu, 13 Sep 2018 12:32 UTC


    New Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) members. August 14, 2018 © OMAR HAJ KADOUR / AFP

    Labour's Emily Thornberry has come under fire on social media for simply asking the UK government not to rely on "open source intelligence from terrorist groups" in the event of a reported chemical attack in Syria.

    Thornberry, Labour's shadow foreign secretary, asked the government if they would consult Parliament before taking military action over reports of chemical weapon attacks in areas controlled by Al-Qaeda proxy Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), a US-proscribed terrorist organization.

    This prompted hysterical responses on social media, with one Twitter user claiming: "This is UK Labour guided by the spirit of Thomas Mair" - the far-right activist who murdered Thornberry's fellow Labour MP Jo Cox. Another accused Thornberry of providing cover for Syrian President Bashar Assad's alleged crimes.

    Quote
    Emily Thornberry‏Verified account @EmilyThornberry

    In the Commons today, I said that - if there are reports of a chemical weapons attack in Idlib over the coming weeks - the government must ensure the reports are independently verified and that Parliament has given its approval, before escalating British involvement in the war.


    9:42 AM - 10 Sep 2018
    516 replies 1,671 retweets 3,229 likes
    There were numerous references to this news organization, with accusations Thornberry was doing the work of "propaganda" outlets such as RT and Sputnik. There was even a charge of "genocide denying" leveled at the MP.

    In turn, Thornberry's position drew levels of support from both left-wing and right-wing critics of UK military involvement in Syria. While former Labour MP, George Galloway backed her, warning that the British government may use parliament's recess to "take advantage" of the situation.

    Quote
    Neil Clark‏Verified account @NeilClark66

    If you think about it logically, there’d be no motive for Assad to use CW in #Idlib, knowing it wld b the one thing that could jeopardise his victory.But there’d be a real motive for his enemies to claim such an attack.Which explains neocon anger over Emily Thornberry’s statement

    2:32 PM - 11 Sep 2018
    34 replies 508 retweets 914 likes
    HTS are thought to have some 10,000 fighters in the last rebel stronghold - Idlib province, a region in Syria's northwest along the Turkish border.

    Upon reports of a potential chemical attack, Thornberry urged the UK to wait "until the chemical weapons inspectors, the OPCW [Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons], have visited those sites under the protection of the Turkish government, independently verified those reports and attributed responsibility for any chemical weapons used.
    "Relying on so-called open source intelligence provided by proscribed terrorist groups is not an acceptable alternative,"she said.

    Related:
    Last edited by Hervé; 13th September 2018 at 14:35.
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Dennis,

    Keep up the great work. Way to be outspoken against war even though it is not popular opinion here.

    I make me so happy to see you doing this!

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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Corbett Report Trump Cabal Threatens Syria With A Chemical False Flag - #



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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Brian/Fellow Aspirant

    If you posted that to show once again that 'Snopes' is a fraud and a CIA asset, well, that didn't come through.

    If, on the other hand, you believe this is true, please start a thread about your belief that the white helmets are good guys. Maybe another thread about believing Snopes.
    Actually, Dennis, my post was to demonstrate that there is a basic truth to the White Helmet reality with respect to the ongoing Russian/Syrian collusion. In other words, I am not among those who have drunk from the ocean of Kool-Aid proffered by the Russian propaganda machine. I much prefer the work of established western news organizations (including Snopes) to ANYTHING with the letters RT attached. It is my belief that Putin and Assad are committing war crimes against Syrian civilians. Nea, they have committed, are continuing to commit and will in the future commit crimes against humanity.

    ...

    We will have to agree to disagree, I think. And for this stance I offer no links or research or quotations. I am entitled to my fully formed opinion, and so are you.

    Brian

    P.S. Way to pile on, Paul.
    Brian,

    I completely agree with you that if you started a thread about believing that "Snopes" is truthful or valid, that you would get creamed. You'd be in a terrible position, and people would cite just a few of the outrageous lies - supportive of the US government/deep state narrative - that the snopes duo have generated, which shows that they are completely aligned with the deep state, for example and as a baseline, the official 9/11 narrative. The worst part for you is that you'd have no ammo to retaliate. You wouldn't be able to provide any examples - at all - of any major political or geopolitical stories/"debunkings" done by snopes that are true, but you'd find plenty that echoes mainstream media, which (Operation Mockingbird) is a tool of the CIA and other Deep State agencies. You'd be crucified. You'd look like a terribly naive person, however sincere.

    It appears that the dnc/deep state "Russiagate" false-flag got you. Barry, Killary, and TheBern, all spewing anti-Russia nonsense, risking "hot" war with Russia and stoking the cold war (which is fully orgasmic to the military-security industrial complex, cha-ching!) It appears that you didn't get that the PNAC republican duopoly neocons surrounding w bush (who we know were all among the perpetrators of the 9/11 false-flag) codified the plan ("7 countries in 5 years") to take out Syria at least as early as 2001, before Bashar al Assad became Syria's president, and you missed the hand-off of the deep state baton to democrat duopoly obomber, who articulately and glibly turned it up to eleven in the Middle East, taking out/murdering Libya's leader and destroying one of the named 7 countries plus training, arming, supporting, protecting ISIS/IS/ISIL/alNusra/alQaeda mercenary terrorists hired to destroy Syria, and you missed the baton being passed to republican duopoly trump who is following the exact same deep state plan. That's a lot to miss. In your defense, there are obviously a bunch of people here at Avalon that also refuse to see the handoff from obummer to trump. It's a partisan disease, which is why I mentioned the dnc. Adherents to the rnc propaganda are just as lost in partisan BS, but the new anti-Russia deep state crap was from the dnc wing of the duopoly. So, Russia (RT) is off your list of trusted news sources... You already declared who you do believe (mainstream news and snopes), but I am going to ask you to do some homework. There are a few citizens that went to Syria to find out for themselves whether the US government/deep state/nikkki haley are telling the truth, that Assad is a monster, the Syrian people hate him and his wife and want them dead, and that Assad inexplicably keeps murdering/gassing a few civilians in celebration of ridding sections of his country of US-backed terrorists - just as cnn/fox/nbc/cbs/msnbc/the wall street journal, new york times, etc. has been drumming. The homework I would assign - only if you really want to know, to have an informed opinion - would be to read the words and watch the videos of two women that have gone to Syria to find out for themselves, and to report back to the world: Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett. I made each of their names into links to (kinda randomly selected) videos on youtube, but please don't stop there.

    KiwiElf posted a meme, I think in the q adherents thread, that correctly stated that opinions are not to be given equal weight to informed opinions. Another way I have heard this expressed is that if one person says it is raining and another person says it is not, we should not give equal weight to their opinions and instead, step outdoors and find out. Your opinions that the "white helmets" are humanitarian rescuers, and that snopes is a valid source of truth, are demonstrably wrong, and have been proven to be wrong. I'd recommend taking your television set to the nearest window, and throwing it out, unless you want to continue to bathe in the deep state lies and lies of omission that the mainstream "news" corporations pump out. Finding real sources of truth requires diligent searching and keen discernment. If, after your diligent search, you still lean on rachel maddow and wolf blitzer and brian williams (all of whom have been proven to be liars) and their ilk for the truth, I would ask you not to debate that issue in this thread, but rather dare to make those into separate topics in threads about them and their veracity.


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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    I'm not thanking Dennis's post just because he's sticking it to Brian, honest. I'm thanking it because it's a powerfully expressed and succinct good grasp of how the machine has worked for a very long time.


    The handover to Trump gets a bit more complex, in my view. To get as good a grasp on that, one has to get informed in a much more up to date state of the situation than continually rolling out the PNAC scenario that was effectively buried and out of the fight since 2013.


    Iran pre 2013 and Iran post 2013 are two quite different offers. I'll admit I'm not absolutely sure I know all the factors but I know that a game changing deal was made directly between two factions of the bloodlines that bypassed everyone below them, who just had to nod and deliver what was asked and expected of them. Part of that deal was the immediate about-turn in Egypt where the Muslim Brotherhood bunch who were only just getting their feet under the table of power when they were yanked out of there again on the insistence of the Iranian side of the deal. Another sign of the deal was the audacious air bombing of the 2nd in command in Syrian intel' right there in his office. He was lead man in Iranian intelligence in the region and was one of several agents on both side who were erased to seal the deal.


    When Trump wags his finger at Iran, I try to include as much up to date information as I can, in trying to understand what that actually means. PNAC is as relevant, now, as the partition of India.


    And anyway, which part of handing over the new American Century to China makes sense to anybody?
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    I'm not thanking Dennis's post just because he's sticking it to Brian, honest. I'm thanking it because it's a powerfully expressed and succinct good grasp of how the machine has worked for a very long time.


    The handover to Trump gets a bit more complex, in my view. To get as good a grasp on that, one has to get informed in a much more up to date state of the situation than continually rolling out the PNAC scenario that was effectively buried and out of the fight since 2013.


    Iran pre 2013 and Iran post 2013 are two quite different offers. I'll admit I'm not absolutely sure I know all the factors but I know that a game changing deal was made directly between two factions of the bloodlines that bypassed everyone below them, who just had to nod and deliver what was asked and expected of them. Part of that deal was the immediate about-turn in Egypt where the Muslim Brotherhood bunch who were only just getting their feet under the table of power when they were yanked out of there again on the insistence of the Iranian side of the deal. Another sign of the deal was the audacious air bombing of the 2nd in command in Syrian intel' right there in his office. He was lead man in Iranian intelligence in the region and was one of several agents on both side who were erased to seal the deal.


    When Trump wags his finger at Iran, I try to include as much up to date information as I can, in trying to understand what that actually means. PNAC is as relevant, now, as the partition of India.

    ...
    You're saying that the PNAC plan is irrelevant, yet the same 7 countries that were named by Gen. Wesley Clark as being on the neocon hitlist are either destroyed or still on the USA, INC. hitlist. It's still ongoing. The same hitlist was maintained through neocon and neoliberal (rnc and dnc duopoly factions) administrations. The people that engineered 9/11 were never caught and brought to trial and convicted and hanged. Instead, they remain in the alphabet agencies, in the neocon/neoliberal "think tanks", as presidential cabinet members and advisors, and as employees of the military-security industrial complex. The Project for a New American Century book may not still be a new york times bestseller, but the plan was never ended.

    Of course, that plan would have metastasized and would have been refined by now - but it's just silly to say the plan is no longer relevant when Syria, Yemen, and Iran are still under attack (Iran - so far - by sanctions and demonization by propaganda, Syria by sanctions and demonization by propaganda, US occupation and missile attacks, and ongoing support and sheltering of known ISIS et. al. terrorists by the trump regime, and Yemen... jesus h christ, Yemen is an open-air slaughterhouse of ethnic cleansing by saudi arabia and by the trump regime, similar to the slow-motion genocide of Palestinians by the zionist israelis. It's relevant. It's ongoing. Trump is a full participant in the deep state plans for Middle East regional hegemony/resource control, and overtly zionist-israel plans of regional imperialism which requires the neutering of Syria and neutralization of Iran.

    I know that there is great excitement over the prospect that trump is anti-deep state. That excitement is emotion. Hell, who can live without hope? But if, somehow, you set the emotion aside and objectively just look at trump's ACTUAL ACTIONS, he is not anti-deep state. He is (understandably, justifiably) anti-democrat-duopoly-faction that includes the dnc-variants of the deep-state that have used the phony Russiagate crap to try to get trump ousted as president. My guess is that trump and friends are too deeply woven into the same fabric as the bush-clinton cabal, and would be too vulnerable to actually arrest and convict them. I hope I'm wrong, and that trump exposes them. However, even in doing so, the zionazi agenda of global full-spectrum dominance by the USA, INC. neocon/neoliberal war-for-profit death machine will roll on unabated.


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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I know that there is great excitement over the prospect that trump is anti-deep state. That excitement is emotion. Hell, who can live without hope? But if, somehow, you set the emotion aside and objectively just look at trump's ACTUAL ACTIONS, he is not anti-deep state.
    Well, I will admit to agreeing with more of what you describe, Dennis, than I expected to .

    I will certainly agree with anyone who observes that listening to Presidential Pronouncements for the real truth of the matter is about as reliable as reading Snopes.

    However some actions have been promising.
    • Syria is closer to regaining control of its land than it has been in several years.
    • The Godfather of ISIS, John McCain, is no longer a player (and probably not just for innocent medical reasons.)
    • Some serious house cleaning of some of the more notorious leaders of the US Dept of Justice has occurred.
    • Tensions and nuclearization of North Korea (likely a CIA puppet state until recently) are being dialed back.
    • Some of the key funders of terrorism, child trafficking, and US social media, namely Saudi kings, have been had their wings clipped.
    • The turmoil in Iran might be a good sign, if it signals that yet another CIA installed Iranian government is under serious stress.


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    My guess is that trump and friends are too deeply woven into the same fabric as the bush-clinton cabal, and would be too vulnerable to actually arrest and convict them. I hope I'm wrong, and that trump exposes them. However, even in doing so, the zionazi agenda of global full-spectrum dominance by the USA, INC. neocon/neoliberal war-for-profit death machine will roll on unabated.
    I am a bit more optimistic, but I will readily grant that my optimism might just be a sign of my political biases. I certainly cannot prove otherwise at this point.
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)


    You're saying that the PNAC plan is irrelevant, yet the same 7 countries that were named by Gen. Wesley Clark as being on the neocon hitlist are either destroyed or still on the USA, INC. hitlist. It's still ongoing.


    Can you explain to me how you know for sure that is the case?
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Norman, If you cant see that it is actively going on you are either intentionally obtuse(trolling) or incapable of understanding, either way you are clearly not reading what Dennis is saying as he has shown that this is actively the case with specific examples. Literally, specifically names countries and incidents to prove his point. Just google Saudi Triple Tap.

    I have figured it out. Remember in Westworld where Bernard says it doesnt look like anything to him? The reason Dennis' arguments are not landing is because I dont think the people here see the dead brown people as people. Why they wont acknowledge Yemen and Palestine is because they dont actually see them as humans. That is the only way I see it or else they would not be okay with weapons to saudi or Israel for example, which both Obama and Trump continued, which T dizzle even went one step further and gave the Zionists their dream of recognition of the occupation of Jerusalem by moving the Embassy there. Super anti deep state move!

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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    It seems likely to me that Trump's apparently anti-deep state stance is simply his way of keeping up the appearance of being a good guy for his fans ( and those of his critics he wants to keep at bay).
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    My guess is that trump and friends are too deeply woven into the same fabric as the bush-clinton cabal, and would be too vulnerable to actually arrest and convict them.
    But when it becomes clear all those arrests and convictions are never going to happen, then what? He can dangle that carrot only so long.
    Last edited by Paul; 15th September 2018 at 19:18. Reason: trim quoted material
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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)


    Direct, open plea to President Donald Trump: Please, call off the hit on Assad and Syria.


    There have been two already that we know of and Assad and Syria are still there and getting stronger.


    How much do any of us know about what the exact targets were in the two previous false flags ( especially the last one )?


    Who's military assets were destroyed?
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Good question, Norman! Let's hope it was the Deep State's base. Let face it...the Global Elite or... our "Controllers" don't care WHAT color your skin is as long as they get to keep controlling the Global Picture. Think both World Wars!

    None of us has complete control of all the details or variants in this global situation! After reading about the Yale-China connection from 1903 yesterday....it's like WHOA! The "control" goes waaaay back!

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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Brian/Fellow Aspirant

    If you posted that to show once again that 'Snopes' is a fraud and a CIA asset, well, that didn't come through.

    If, on the other hand, you believe this is true, please start a thread about your belief that the white helmets are good guys. Maybe another thread about believing Snopes.
    Actually, Dennis, my post was to demonstrate that there is a basic truth to the White Helmet reality with respect to the ongoing Russian/Syrian collusion. In other words, I am not among those who have drunk from the ocean of Kool-Aid proffered by the Russian propaganda machine. I much prefer the work of established western news organizations (including Snopes) to ANYTHING with the letters RT attached. It is my belief that Putin and Assad are committing war crimes against Syrian civilians. Nea, they have committed, are continuing to commit and will in the future commit crimes against humanity.

    ...

    We will have to agree to disagree, I think. And for this stance I offer no links or research or quotations. I am entitled to my fully formed opinion, and so are you.

    Brian

    P.S. Way to pile on, Paul.
    Brian,

    I completely agree with you that if you started a thread about believing that "Snopes" is truthful or valid, that you would get creamed. You'd be in a terrible position, and people would cite just a few of the outrageous lies - supportive of the US government/deep state narrative - that the snopes duo have generated, which shows that they are completely aligned with the deep state, for example and as a baseline, the official 9/11 narrative. The worst part for you is that you'd have no ammo to retaliate. You wouldn't be able to provide any examples - at all - of any major political or geopolitical stories/"debunkings" done by snopes that are true, but you'd find plenty that echoes mainstream media, which (Operation Mockingbird) is a tool of the CIA and other Deep State agencies. You'd be crucified. You'd look like a terribly naive person, however sincere.

    It appears that the dnc/deep state "Russiagate" false-flag got you. Barry, Killary, and TheBern, all spewing anti-Russia nonsense, risking "hot" war with Russia and stoking the cold war (which is fully orgasmic to the military-security industrial complex, cha-ching!) It appears that you didn't get that the PNAC republican duopoly neocons surrounding w bush (who we know were all among the perpetrators of the 9/11 false-flag) codified the plan ("7 countries in 5 years") to take out Syria at least as early as 2001, before Bashar al Assad became Syria's president, and you missed the hand-off of the deep state baton to democrat duopoly obomber, who articulately and glibly turned it up to eleven in the Middle East, taking out/murdering Libya's leader and destroying one of the named 7 countries plus training, arming, supporting, protecting ISIS/IS/ISIL/alNusra/alQaeda mercenary terrorists hired to destroy Syria, and you missed the baton being passed to republican duopoly trump who is following the exact same deep state plan. That's a lot to miss. In your defense, there are obviously a bunch of people here at Avalon that also refuse to see the handoff from obummer to trump. It's a partisan disease, which is why I mentioned the dnc. Adherents to the rnc propaganda are just as lost in partisan BS, but the new anti-Russia deep state crap was from the dnc wing of the duopoly. So, Russia (RT) is off your list of trusted news sources... You already declared who you do believe (mainstream news and snopes), but I am going to ask you to do some homework. There are a few citizens that went to Syria to find out for themselves whether the US government/deep state/nikkki haley are telling the truth, that Assad is a monster, the Syrian people hate him and his wife and want them dead, and that Assad inexplicably keeps murdering/gassing a few civilians in celebration of ridding sections of his country of US-backed terrorists - just as cnn/fox/nbc/cbs/msnbc/the wall street journal, new york times, etc. has been drumming. The homework I would assign - only if you really want to know, to have an informed opinion - would be to read the words and watch the videos of two women that have gone to Syria to find out for themselves, and to report back to the world: Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett. I made each of their names into links to (kinda randomly selected) videos on youtube, but please don't stop there.

    KiwiElf posted a meme, I think in the q adherents thread, that correctly stated that opinions are not to be given equal weight to informed opinions. Another way I have heard this expressed is that if one person says it is raining and another person says it is not, we should not give equal weight to their opinions and instead, step outdoors and find out. Your opinions that the "white helmets" are humanitarian rescuers, and that snopes is a valid source of truth, are demonstrably wrong, and have been proven to be wrong. I'd recommend taking your television set to the nearest window, and throwing it out, unless you want to continue to bathe in the deep state lies and lies of omission that the mainstream "news" corporations pump out. Finding real sources of truth requires diligent searching and keen discernment. If, after your diligent search, you still lean on rachel maddow and wolf blitzer and brian williams (all of whom have been proven to be liars) and their ilk for the truth, I would ask you not to debate that issue in this thread, but rather dare to make those into separate topics in threads about them and their veracity.
    I rest my case.

    B.
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    ...
    I rest my case.

    B.
    You have to make a case before you can rest it. You haven't provided anything to back-up your contention that snopes and the mainstream media are sources of truth. Besides, that is tangential at best to this topic, and now I'd say, distracting. I have changed my mind and now think it would be a good idea for you to start those threads, challenging Avelonians perceptions by showing examples of snopes telling the truth about political or geopolitical issues, and show that the corporate mainstream news tells the truth about any important issues (they do get the local "cat stuck in tree" stories and high school football scores correct.) You obviously have a strongly held belief, so back it up and debate the topic - as a topic. (Your view has already been stated here.)


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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)


    Direct, open plea to President Donald Trump: Please, call off the hit on Assad and Syria.


    There have been two already that we know of and Assad and Syria are still there and getting stronger.


    How much do any of us know about what the exact targets were in the two previous false flags ( especially the last one )?


    Who's military assets were destroyed?
    right, but at least we knew who the liars are.

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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    ...
    I rest my case.

    B.
    You have to make a case before you can rest it. You haven't provided anything to back-up your contention that snopes and the mainstream media are sources of truth. Besides, that is tangential at best to this topic, and now I'd say, distracting. I have changed my mind and now think it would be a good idea for you to start those threads, challenging Avelonians perceptions by showing examples of snopes telling the truth about political or geopolitical issues, and show that the corporate mainstream news tells the truth about any important issues (they do get the local "cat stuck in tree" stories and high school football scores correct.) You obviously have a strongly held belief, so back it up and debate the topic - as a topic. (Your view has already been stated here.)
    Well, I guess you miss my point. When I say that "I rest my case" I'm referring to your rather lengthy response to my original claim. That is, you have proven that you are so deeply down the Russian rabbit hole that anything I write to enforce my point of view will be met by just such a response. You have demonstrated my point: your views have hardened (as have mine, of course) to the point that I really doubt the possibility of a real debate. We could each cite sites and provide links to "prove" one anothers' beliefs, each countering the others' information and casting aspersions as to the veracity of the facts on offer. I visualize a session of one of those (now ancient, it seems) primitive computer games where the player lobs a "cannonball" across a poorly rendered landscape, hoping to deliver a decisive blow, only to be forced to suffer from the opponent's return volley. The "tit for tat" exchanges accomplish nothing in regard to the truth as seen by either side. We could exhaust one another with such an endeavour, to no appreciable positive end. The well of truth has been permanently poisoned by the giant forces at work to wreak havoc upon our world. Once we have settled into our personal versions of reality, we're kinda stuck.

    Having said that, however, out of my respect for you, Dennis, I'll give you an example. Your dependence on the work of Vanessa Beeley and/or Eva Bartlett show how vulnerable your position is, given that both of these "reporters" (and their stories) have been repeatedly exposed as being in the service to the Kremlin. Neither of them has any credibility with the long established war correspondents who have been involved in Middle Eastern affairs and conflicts for many years before these women arrived on the scene.

    w.r.t. Ms. Beeley:

    https://thesyriacampaign.org/wp-cont...ngtheTruth.pdf


    False accusations, abusive language and violent threats all chip away at
    the volunteers’ morale. However the vicious smearing of the White Helmets,
    especially false terrorism claims, are designed to undermine the evidence
    they collect and legitimise their killing.

    Blogger Vanessa Beeley, at the heart of this Russian-backed disinformation
    campaign, has stated repeatedly in public that these humanitarians can be
    legally killed. “White Helmets are not getting it. We know they are terrorists.
    Makes them a legit target,” she said on Twitter.
    2
    Whilst most of the individuals involved in spreading the conspiracies
    are usually dismissed as cranks and extremists by the vast majority of
    policy makers and opinion formers, their reach online has inarguably been
    extraordinary. Twitter activity during news peaks such as the Aleppo offensive
    in 2016 and the Khan Sheikhoun chemical attack in 2017, shows that far right
    groups in the United States (the so-called “alt-right”) and Russian networks are
    reaching more people with manufactured stories than any other group.


    Then there's this from Michael Weiss

    (credentials given here:
    Michael Weiss is an American journalist and author. Weiss is a senior editor for The Daily Beast, a consulting executive editor at Coda Story[1], a columnist for Foreign Policy, an author and a frequent national security analyst and contributor for CNN.[2]

    Education

    Weiss was born to a Jewish family[3] and educated at Townsend Harris High School, a public magnet high school in Flushing, Queens in New York City, from which he graduated in 1998,[4] followed by Dartmouth College, a private Ivy League research university in the town of Hanover, New Hampshire, from which he graduated in 2002 with a B.A. in History.[5]
    Life and career

    Weiss has served as co-chair of the Russia Studies Centre at the Henry Jackson Society (HJS).[6]

    Weiss currently serves as the editor-in-chief for the online magazine Interpreter, which translates and analyzes Russian news,[7] and senior editor of The Daily Beast, a regular columnist for Foreign Policy magazine. In 2015, he co-wrote the book ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror with Hassan Hassan.[8][9][10]

    In November 2014, Weiss published a special report in his online magazine the Interpreter that accused Russia of waging "propaganda and disinformation" campaigns. Weiss's report included recommendations on how to confront Russian propaganda which included creating an “internationally recognized ratings system for disinformation.” [11] The recommendations were criticized in The Nation by James Carden of the American Committee for East-West Accord as a "censorship campaign."[12]

    Weiss has this to say about Beeley:

    (link here - https://news.postimees.ee/4542465/cn...deranged-crank)

    "Michael Weiss told Postimees that Beeley’s conspiracy theories have bee debunked by several publications, including The Guardian.

    “Beeley is a deranged crank who refuses to believe al-Qaeda was behind 9/11 and who regularly appears on RT to spread falsehoods about Syrian first responders and the Assad regime's repeated chemical weapons attacks, which she similarly refuses to acknowledge,” Weiss said.

    Weiss said that because Russia has endorsed her theories on the White Helmets in the UN Security Council, it is accurate to say she is both a relay and source of Kremlin disinformation efforts.

    Weiss added that her cynicism runs neck-and-neck with her moral squalor as leaked direct messages of hers from Twitter show her admitting that the Assad regime tortures detainees but insisting that she'd never admit such a thing in public."


    There's also this, from https://pulsemedia.org/2017/03/11/ch...anessa-beeley/

    by Amr Salahi

    (credentials: Amr Salahi is a journalist who has previously lived in the Middle East and worked for the BBC. )

    "The notorious Assad regime propagandist Vanessa Beeley has been recently on a speaking tour of the UK. She has been showing up at small venues in Bristol, Birmingham, and London to give a presentation entitled “Aleppo: Fall or Liberation”. These talks have been hosted by the Communist Party of Great Britain Marxist-Leninist (CPGB-ML), which openly supports and glorifies Josef Stalin. In Bristol, her talk was held at the Palestine Museum and attended by about 70 people.

    The general gist of Beeley’s talk is similar to her published work on websites such as 21st Century Wire and Mint Press News. The rebels are non-Syrian terrorists from Al-Qaeda who commit atrocities against the population in the areas they hold; what is happening in Syria is part of a regime change conspiracy that has been in place since the 1980s involving the media, human rights organizations, and Western governments; Bashar Al-Assad’s army is the main humanitarian agent, providing Syrians in East Aleppo and other rebel-held areas it captured with relief and medical care.

    Members of Syria Solidarity UK who attended Beeley’s presentation (two and a half hours ong) have provided a more detailed account of the meeting here. This article will only look at a few minutes of her talk, which encapsulate the maliciousness of her propaganda and how it is designed to make the targeting and murder of Syrian civilians acceptable to people who consider themselves “progressive” and “anti-imperialist”.

    Beeley’s favourite targets are the rescue workers and medical staff who save the men, women, and children injured in the regime’s and Russia’s airstrikes which target homes, schools, and hospitals. Syria is probably the only conflict in the world where first responders have been singled out not only for actual military attack but also for a relentless propaganda onslaught."

    An excerpt from

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b03c426dad48a9

    has this to say about her role in propping up the Kremlin/Damascus propaganda campaign:

    Vanessa Beeley is a British blogger who believes the attack on French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo was staged, al-Qaeda wasn’t behind the 9/11 attacks and that “Zionists rule France”.

    But her real passion is trying to convince the world that the White Helmets, the group that rescues people from the rubble of Syria’s civil war, is a terrorist-linked organisation that fakes its activities to elicit sympathy in the West for a regime change plot against Syrian leader, Bashar al-Assad.

    Beeley, 53, is the daughter of the late British diplomat Sir Harold Beeley, and worked in various sales and management roles before turning to activism in 2012.

    She would have remained in the fringe world of conspiracy theorists, blogging on alternative news sites and speaking at eventsalongside holocaust deniers and David Icke if it weren’t for one thing - she, like thousands of other people, became embroiled in a Russian disinformation campaign.

    But unlike most, she would take centre stage. In May of 2017 Petr Iliichev, Russia’s Chargé d’Affaires at the UN Security Council, submitted a report containing “information on the work of the White Helmets in Syria”.

    The evidence in the document consisted solely of a presentation Beeley had given in London earlier that year.

    So why would Russia, a state with extensive intelligence gathering services and boots on the ground in Syria, rely on the word of an unknown British blogger?

    RT
    Beeley is regularly invited to speak on Russian state media.

    Scott Lucas, journalist and Professor of Political Science and International Studies at the University of Birmingham, told HuffPost UK it’s all about how the White Helmets document evidence of possible war crimes.

    “One of the things that Russia does is they hit medical sites and civil defence headquarters and they carry out double-tap strikes to target rescuers,” he says.

    “So delegitimising the White Helmets does a couple of things - one is it makes them legitimate targets, paradoxically. Because if they die, the Russians can just so ‘they were associated with terrorists anyway’.

    “Secondly it tries to hinder the White Helmets in putting out information about the Russian attacks that are taking place.”


    In the case of Eva Bartlett, her malicious claims about the White Helmets were put under scrutiny by Patrick Worrall in this piece that appeared in the Channel 4 News "fact checker" section, about two years ago, which begins:

    "Eva Bartlett is a Canadian citizen who describes herself as an “independent writer and rights activist”.

    She writes a blog for the state-funded Russian media outlet Russia Today and is candid about her support for the regime of Bashar al-Assad, who is fighting Syrian rebels with Russian and Iranian help.

    In a speech organised by the Syrian mission to the UN, Ms Bartlett recently criticised the western “corporate media”, saying journalists were “compromised” and used sources that were “not credible”.

    She went on to attack the White Helmets, a volunteer rescue group funded by a number of western governments including Britain.

    Western media outlets – including Channel 4 News – frequently broadcast footage supplied by the White Helmets, which purports to show the aftermath of regime attacks on various rebel-held areas in Syria.

    Supporters of the Assad regime have variously accused the White Helmets of being puppets of western powers, peddlers of faked footage or even terrorist fighters posing as humanitarian workers, all of which the organisation vigorously denies.

    Ms Bartlett said: “Their video footage actually contains children that have been recycled in different reports; so you can find a girl named Aya who turns up in a report in say August, and she turns up in the next month in two different locations.”

    A clip from the press conference has been viewed more than 3 million times on In The NOW, a Facebook page run by Russia Today but not branded as such.

    We’ve tried to contact Ms Bartlett without success, so it’s not 100 per cent clear what she means by this, but our best guess is that she is referring to a claim involving a girl called Aya which has been circulated widely on the internet."

    He goes on to analyze in great depth, the faces, clothing and image context of the child named Aya.

    (link - https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...yrian-children


    I could go on and on, of course (never once mentioning the word "Snopes", which I chose from among a half dozen write-ups to use for my original post only because it gave a coherent summary of what the others said) but I hope that this time, you get my point. For every one of the pieces I have offered to show how these two writers are working at the behest of Putin & Assad, you will no doubt be able to answer them with what I consider to be fallacious counterclaims. Neither of us will be any further ahead in our arguments. It comes down to a personal choice of realities.

    To sum up, then, the best that I can hope for at this point, is that you desist in accusing me of operating without verifiable information, or am too lazy to put my thinking on display. I assure that I'm willing and able to back up any of my claims. Whether or not any of my "proof" will ever cut any ice with you is up to you entirely.

    Namaste, Dennis

    Brian
    Last edited by Fellow Aspirant; 16th September 2018 at 05:34.
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    Albert E.

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    Default Re: USA, INC.'s Trump Gives Go-Ahead for False Flag Gas Attack in Syria

    Quote Posted by norman (here)

    And anyway, which part of handing over the new American Century to China makes sense to anybody?
    The whole thing.

    It appears that the goal of American intelligence agencies has been to vacuum the wealth out of the country. The power of China is inevitable.

    I am not sure it's as simple as one group of guys passes the keys to the kingdom to the next group, but I think the two things are broadly true, and the timing is starting to resolve. If the quest for war has to be pried from the Neocons' cold dead fingers, it will be--slowly and painfully most likely. This mono-empire seems to have no way to survive, whereas China is somewhat immortal.
    Gayatri Namasangiti Nucleus of the Complete Bodhisattva Path from the Sanskrit

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