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Thread: Our Need for Heroes

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Oh yes christian and support for and against (hero worshiped) almost killed off this forum, through the for and against--some time back.
    He held fort so well --countless threads on the one subject --his story
    What was his name again ??
    Avalon survived and is all the more mature for it.
    Chris
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Oh I remember it was Charles--before the name and av changed (Atticus)
    No matter its ancient history but hopefully not to be repeated by any new hero or heroine.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Albania Avalon Member Iceberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    There are people who dedicate their live for a path beyond themselves, that means not excluding themselves but sacrificing much more than others for the good of many. There are great men in this world but unfortunately mostly are not mainstream, their purpose goes beyond materialism, fame or themselves. For sure we can call them heroes , but they won't recognise themselves as heroes (they just define as : just doing the job we are supposed to do)

    Even this wonderful forum of truthseekers has many and they will always have our gratitude for their hard work.
    Last edited by Iceberg; 20th September 2018 at 19:35.

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    ....tit for tat....

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    For whom have we been heroes and we did not know?

    I have been and still sometimes is my daughter’s heroe. But, as Deux Corbeaux said - very intelligent and psychic birds - my numerous flaws my daughter sees, yet she has love in her heart for her mom.

    I must say she is my heroe.

    ——/-

    Little story: for years, throughout their primary and high school, I had two little Turkish girls using me as a French language mentor/instructor.

    Whenever they had a difficult homework, they would call me and I would have an hour or two with them guiding them, helping them with grammar as well as with creativity in their writing and at school.

    They ended up having good grades all along despite having both their parents unable to speak the language and being pretty much analphabet.

    (In Quebec, all schooling is in French - no English except for one hour and half per week, French is essential to succeed at school).

    Years later, one of the girl was in College and had to do some homework on Heroes. She had to name one heroe who transformed her life.

    She phoned me and explained her homework. I thought she needed help but no. She told me I was her chosen heroe and why.

    I am still crying when I think of it

    She never knew that many many times, I almost dropped them having too much work and too much to do with my daughter. I finally never did drop them, and I am happy I went over and above for them.
    Last edited by Flash; 21st September 2018 at 01:05.

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Never trust your intuition alone unless you know your subject inside out and backwards. Phil Schneider DID seem believable. Most accomplished liars do. When someone's lying from a podium, they generally don't glance about furtively or giggle nervously. People who are telling the truth but have stage fright are more apt to come across this way.

    Thanks for the thread, Bill. Loved your opening post and all of the contributions!

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Its sad to think that doing the right thing which should be normal is now considered heroic. But if consider those who save the world or do good for the multitudes as heroes then this too are heroes


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    I think there are many heroes on avalon everywhere in fact

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    It's sad to think that doing the right thing which should be normal is now considered heroic. But if we consider those who save the world or do good for the multitudes are heroes, then these too are heroes.



    Bumping this astonishingly moving little video.

    I can't agree more. In the wonderful Jeff Bridges movie Starman, the visiting Starman says:
    • You are a strange species. Not like any other. And you would be surprised how many there are. Intelligent but savage.
      Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.
    Amen to that.


    But that's not actually the point I was making in the thread, though I've appreciated every post here. We do indeed have heroes all around. Saving a life is as important (for that person) as saving the world is for us all.

    But the need for hero worship is the interesting thing here. And, as I mentioned: we tend to manufacture heroes, often artificially, when they're in short supply.

    It's a deep need that we tend to have: to hope a hero will come to our rescue. That then takes the pressure of each of us individually to get out of our armchairs and act... or take on the mantle of being a hero, in any way at all.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 21st September 2018 at 12:49.

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    My heroes are my children. They will carry on a some-what stilted family legacy and make their families stronger in faith, love, and character. They will be stronger than I, and my predecessors and they will build and pass their strength on to their own children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. That is what makes a hero.
    crosby

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    Canada Avalon Member hermit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Quote Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)
    It’s not only our need for heroes, but why do we need our heroes to be perfect?
    There's an interesting phenomenon here in Canada, specifically Saskatchewan, with regard to how the Metis people view their heroes.

    The Metis nation is a culmination of individuals who identify as having ancestry of French/Aboriginal heritage (think Hudson Bay meets the people they were trading with, people fall in love, cultures mix). While going into the history here would require pages, and pages, and pages, briefly:

    The Metis people used a French system of measure to determine the size of their lots along the Red River in Manitoba, think long narrow lots facing the river to allow for irrigation and access to the transportation route. When the government stepped in to survey the country, the long lots didn't fit the grid system that was in play. Long story short, they were driven further west into the area near Batoche, Saskatchewan. An uprising occurred when the Metis would not conform, people were shot and killed on both sides, leaders of the rebellion were arrested and killed or went into exile.

    But the Metis never ever hide the fact that their leaders were quirky, if not crazy.

    Riel and Dumont agreed to meet with their collective groups of people at Batoche. It was early spring, and every time Riel saw something that was out of the ordinary, a bird that was seen, a flower that might be blooming, a leaf that was popping out, he took it as a sign that God was with them and made the entire entourage kneel and pray a complete rosary. Dumont had a ferry crossing and was known to load up the ferry, hand the passengers the poles, and wish them luck to get to the other side of the Saskatchewan River (this was and is a fast flowing river). When he knew that the Canadian forces were upon him, he dismantled his trading post and was said to have buried his billiard table rather than have Canadian soldiers play on it.

    I think this is a significant way of approaching how we look at our heroes. Not as individual that are on a pedestal, but rather individuals with flaws just like the rest of us that found a way to overcome the obstacles to just do the right thing.

    Your mileage may vary.
    cordibus nostris non quiesceret donec requiescat in te

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    "And if you find a real hero…. then support them all you possibly can. But before you go sending $10,000 to your most newly exalted champion… make absolutely sure they’re real. You may not get your money back. Or — in the end — your money’s worth."
    Well said Mr. Ryan.

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    It's sad to think that doing the right thing which should be normal is now considered heroic. But if we consider those who save the world or do good for the multitudes are heroes, then these too are heroes.



    Bumping this astonishingly moving little video.

    I can't agree more. In the wonderful Jeff Bridges movie Starman, the visiting Starman says:
    • You are a strange species. Not like any other. And you would be surprised how many there are. Intelligent but savage.
      Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.
    Amen to that.


    But that's not actually the point I was making in the thread, though I've appreciated every post here. We do indeed have heroes all around. Saving a life is as important (for that person) as saving the world is for us all.

    But the need for hero worship is the interesting thing here. And, as I mentioned: we tend to manufacture heroes, often artificially, when they're in short supply.

    It's a deep need that we tend to have: to hope a hero will come to our rescue. That then takes the pressure of each of us individually to get out of our armchairs and act... or take on the mantle of being a hero, in any way at all.
    the need for hero worship I think originated from religion all meant to control, make people inactive and hope for a savior. and then there are the movies and all that refreshes the hero mentality in our brains. thats why I see heroes in ordinary people not someone bigger than life but non existent. as long as we see heroes as someone larger than life we aint going anywhere. . fact is no individual can carry the burden for everyone. leaders may rise and do extraordinary things only if they have support from ordinary folks. We are the heroes we should be the heroes we ordinary folks.

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  25. Link to Post #33
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    What happens when heroes fall, or are taken away from us, is upsetting and even traumatic for some. Just yesterday, we’ve heard about a FOIA-accessed FBI document that tells a different story about Phil Schneider than the one we want to believe.
    One response is cognitive dissonance. “OMG! No! How can this be true?!” Another is to transfer our belief in the hero to the belief that the FBI documents must be falsified, or that the person posting about them is an agent of the Dark Side. Ah yes, the revealed info is all planted or faked. That neatly solves our inner problem, a palliative against our sense of anguish and betrayal.
    I’m not taking a position here about Schneider (or the FBI): this isn’t the purpose of what I’m saying. I'm just pointing out what happens when we get to be disappointed, or are simply faced with contrary information that threatens to undermine our dreams.
    Greetings Dear Bill
    I"m a big fan of challenging cognitive dissonance and for the record I'm not really prone to hero worship.
    Even as a teenager I would always try to see things as they were, not optimistic or pessimistic but pragmatically.
    I've never to my recollection jumped on the bandwagon of any of the folks who attained such status on this forum, keeping my opinion to my self until such time that I could see or hear their actual words coming out of their mouths.



    In the instance of Simon Parks I never thought that guy was lying, I could just see a weird slimyness about him that offended my senses.
    I still don't think Parks was lying, he probably is an abductee but that helps to illustrate how we should not elevate abductees in any way other than listening to their story. In my opinion Houman should dig into Simon Parks and post it on his thread illustrating how Parks is probably had a non-organic parasite placed in him just as Maarit and Dr. Malanga talk about in terms of the Eve Lorgan site here.

    And then there was Shane, Shane's words sounded great on paper but the first time I heard him speak via the Kerry Cassidy interview I knew 100% he was lying and I said so on the thread where this interview was placed. I was the first person to say such on that thread to which most everyone including told me to give him another chance. I did not give him another chance and saw no reason to given he failed to pass my gut check so miserably.



    Same thing with Corey Goode, I gave the guy a chance as his words were written but as soon as I saw him interviewed for the first time I knew 100% he was lying.

    In terms of hero worship I've got to share something with you. When posting over at TOT I was in disbelief as to how negative folks were there. I would argue their points both on the forum and via private message. In all cases they accused me of hero worship and the person they were convinced I was worshiping was you.
    Now I'm a huge fan of your work and I'm a huge fan of your character and your ability to state things as plainly and as honestly as you can.

    This is not because of any piece of information you have shared and or any claims you have made, I trust my gut about you Bill, you pass all my check marks in terms of being a genuine person who is doing the best he can try and piece the puzzles together.

    Some folks have keen discerning intellects they use to try and figure out who is lying and or telling the truth based on certain evidence.
    I have an average intellect at best, and when relying on it exclusively I'm of the opinion I'm doing myself a disservice.

    My ability to focus in on core motivations of people and their true modus operandi has always been top notch in my opinion while focusing on how they are saying things rather than what they are saying. This ability can only be utilized if I see and or hear the actual communication taking place. It's a curse as much as it is a resource I can assure you but there it is.

    When using this resource I can tell you 100% Bill that I trust your motivations to truly help folks understand things I believe 100% that you are a genuine person with the best in mind for folks on the forum and off.
    I tell you this not because I'm worshiping you as a hero but because I recognize truth and lies, and you are a very truthful person.
    Regardless of instances where we disagree I still respect your opinion and will often reexamine certain angles I have taken in respects to your suggestions.

    I've reexamined my opinions on Phil Schneider in three posts starting HERE. My opinions on him as being legit have only been strengthened. If Phil is exaggerating or taking liberty with someone else"s story here and there I"m of the opinion that this does not invalidate his motivations to tell people the truth. A truth that he is 100% sure is real and exists.
    Last edited by DNA; 23rd September 2018 at 06:39.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    I dont think that people realize the ripple effect of being "nice" to one person has.
    We are all heroes in that respect.
    Showing genuine appreciation to some one lifts them and then their interaction with the people they meet that day is subtly different--they then in turn lift others and on it goes.
    We can all be heroes ---we can make a difference.
    Every time we meet some one we are ether lifting them or otherwise.
    That is not taking away from those we consider to be outstanding people.

    Be a hero to yourself first--appreciate what you are--then its easy to bring a smile to the face of others.

    Chris
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    DNA............ Phil lied many times about his father to me that's serious. He didn't embellish ...... he lied and gave his dad stolen valor.
    See my post in that section.

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  31. Link to Post #36
    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Hey Marcus I'm glad you said all that. Lot of important points.

    There certainly are a group of highly dogmatic individuals who have a habit of going around and accusing others of dogmatism. It's hilarious in a way. Using Bill as an example here: those people that you referenced will accuse anybody, and I mean anybody - from a casual supporter to someone who has just joined the forum - of deaf-dumb-blind across the board hero worship of Bill, without seeing the irony of their statements. In fact, *they* are the ones taking the extreme, emotionally driven position. They need to paint others in this exaggerated, sycophantic light to continue to justify all their baseless, childish resentments.

    (And OMG, this notion that everyone agrees with Bill on everything and so on....total rubbish! I wish everyone could take a peek into the mod chambers once in a while. There are loads of disagreements! ...passionate and heated disagreements sometimes. I mean, it's a laughable accusation!)

    Anyway, what encourages me now is that the folks we're looking to currently for legit info and opinions are scientific, grounded, logical, and most important..sane. People like Dolan, Fitts, Farrell, Howe etc. These people are much more worthy of the hero mantle, imo.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a good outlandish story! You guys are gonna think I'm nuts, but I find Wilcock to be pretty entertaining! Emery Smith too. It would all make for a great tv series!

    And there are other so called whistleblowers that I do give some credence to but have offered little to no evidence; I don't think they should be dismissed entirely, I just think they belong in a different category altogether. And certainly not looked upon as heroes.

    So it appears what we have are those that have been burned so many times that they refuse to give credit to anyone...and ridicule those who do; and we have those who recklessly worship at the altar of Goode and Wilcock, and others of that ilk who tell preposterous stories with little to no evidence. In the alt community we're always triggered into extremes. The middle ground, for me anyway, still can involve heroes, but that doesn't mean we cede our personal power and worship at their feet; it merely means we admire someone and are grateful for their contributions and example.
    Last edited by Mike; 22nd September 2018 at 21:02.

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Some heroes are the real deal. Occasionally, there are real humans who do remarkable things on behalf of others, and sometimes on behalf of us all. Some are barely known to history. Like Vasili Arkhipov, the Russian submarine commander who in 1962 very probably single-handedly averted World War III.

    But when heroes are in short supply, we tend to manufacture them to meet our own emotional needs.

    Heroes provide magical answers to problems we badly want to go away. And of course, like Captain America or Wonder Woman, they do all the hard work for us.

    Meanwhile, we look on with our popcorn and excitedly root for them: passively — because we’re in our armchairs, doing nothing at all — but also anxiously. It’s all entertainment, but like watching a major sports event (we create our heroes there, too), we invest ourselves passionately in the champions’ success.
    So very well said, all of it. We are all so busy looking to the next for the answers, we forget we are the solution... Plain and simple. While others may come bearing gifts of telepathy, technology , and education, it is up to us to put it to good us for ourselves...

    I have had my own experiences, and while I believed the information I was given, I too, must recognize that I may have been deceived.. Yet so many are stating their information as facts, and no one is willing or seemingly bothered to do the real checking behind the scenes.

    I will probably spend the rest of my life trying to finish putting my events into the context, but during that time, I was made very well aware of one thing. Only I can determine my destiny, the impressions I give others, the impact I have on the lives of others, and only I can change that.. Unless I allow someone else the authority over myself. I try to be the change I wish to see.. And it isn't easy, it is something I need remind myself daily..

    I wear a charm daily, as well as a red string on my left wrist... to remind myself not to give preprogramed responses to questions... Not to just go with the flow, because it is going to affect others, as well as myself. It truly is as simple as self policing our own actions and responses, on a mass level.. And heros can be found... looking no further than inside of ourselves.

    Sadly people are too busy bickering, and trying to present twelve sides to one story... Do I trust Phil Schneider? I don't know.. But I do know he isn't the first, nor is he the only one to speak of underground tunnels. But as I have learned, many i the field will take on more information, and expand past their given field of knowledge, just to remain relevent, and BE THAT HERO FIGURE.. Sad... However I don't trust the FBI completely either... After some of their past information came to light.

    Discernment, and personal accountability is what is needed. We shouldn't be arguing about what they're doing, but rather finding better ideas to CHANGE IT..

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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    In the alt community we're always triggered into extremes. The middle ground, for me anyway, still can involve heroes, but that doesn't mean we cede our personal power and worship at their feet; it merely means we admire someone and are grateful for their contributions and example.

    That was well said, you voiced a feeling that was in my gut but I was unable to articulate.
    This reminds me of something seemingly unrelated but I think I can bring it around to where we are.
    When I was younger I had a fascination with world religions, especially those having to do with Christianity and the creation of it.
    I was completely convinced that Christianity was a false belief system and made it my personal obligation to point this out to others.
    I didn't do it with the objective of entering into some kind of obtuse debate, but rather I would take the Platonic route and ask pertinent questions allowing my dialogue partner the opportunity to answer these questions.
    I won't get into the details and bore you to death but I remember some hard core true believers walking away doubting their faith quite strongly.
    I stopped doing this around the age of 24.
    I stopped because I had convinced my best friend, (a former Catholic) to abandon his religion.
    This man's name was Henry and I had been best friends with him since we were 10 years old. He was amazingly brave, and admirably honest.
    He was an absolutely good person bordering on greatness. He was intelligent, loyal, creative and quite popular with the ladies.
    When we were 22 I had finally convinced him that Christianity was invalid, that there was no Christian God.
    I had successfully destroyed his hero, and his hero was God.
    Now did I do this? Am I giving myself too much credit and or blame here. I don't know, maybe.
    I remember at the time I used to enjoy the herb, and my friend wouldn't touch drugs of any kind.
    After losing his hero he began experimenting with Ecstasy and Coke, it was the nineties and all.
    We began hanging out less and less, and next thing you know he was on Meth. By the time we were thirty he was a mere shell of himself.
    It was around this time I completely abandoned him and refused his calls and any other form of communication and I still refuse his calls to this day.

    I say all of this because regardless of the validity of a Christian God, this man needed God in his life, and his life suffered greatly when that hero was stripped from him.
    My part in this is one of my greatest regrets. Never try to strip someone of their beliefs because we do not know what they will replace those beliefs with when those beliefs are gone.
    Last edited by DNA; 23rd September 2018 at 08:27.

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  37. Link to Post #39
    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    Quote Posted by ichingcarpenter (here)
    DNA............ Phil lied many times about his father to me that's serious. He didn't embellish ...... he lied and gave his dad stolen valor.
    See my post in that section.
    Did Phil fake getting murdered? Phil's murder during his speaking tour means there must have been an interest in him.
    He appears to have been beaten quite brutally before he was killed.
    His samples he would show during speaking engagements all vanished as well.



    Quote Posted by ichingcarpenter (here)
    ''There are people so addicted to exaggeration they can't tell the truth without lying.''

    This is also stolen valor on the German side of history that he's done to build himself up. Watch Das Boot and no matter what one thinks about WW2 this film shows what the crew went through. Even though the film came out in 81 it started hitting the big time in the 90s, on various venues, dvd, bbc series, english version, long version etc
    His story of his dad is not an embellishment of history its an outright lie and liars should never be your heroes.
    Quote Posted by ichingcarpenter (here)
    Joe.... good follow up and yes his medical record is important

    I wonder why nobody ever did a FOIA request before on Phil as far as we know. When Phil broke into the scene at conferences the internet data base was in its infancy so research back then was also limited.

    Now you can go to a site and get a list of all the U boat commanders in WW2.......... guess what? ....... Phil's dad is not on the list
    Don't tell me this was a German conspiracy of keeping his dad off the list and his Dad's history was an important part of his story

    All U boat commanders in ww2 linked to the letter S


    https://uboat.net/men/commanders/s.htm
    Germany's freedom of information acts are intimately linked to and influenced by America's deep state especially the CIA in my opinion.
    So rather than a German conspiracy it very well could be and probably is an American conspiracy.
    I'm not trying to be confrontational and or condescending I just don't see the same concrete evidence here that you do.
    The same people who rail against the deep state and look at them as being the controlling factor in our world should probably not be quick to quote them in regards to information, especially when that information is top secret and is of utmost importance for them to keep hidden.
    Last edited by DNA; 23rd September 2018 at 08:30.

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  39. Link to Post #40
    Avalon Member CD7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our Need for Heroes

    YES we are the Heros weve been waiting for!....and ya know whats possible for us PALES in Comparison to what we are shown in the moving pictures....we get the plastic fruit two dimensional version lol...

    Multidimensional superhero creator love muffins is whats possible.... 😍
    And the Environment resulted from such beings could be Magnificent...Then our superhero asses can frolick, play and Actually LIVE Thrive Experience Cultivate BE.....
    We X Billions want to change the world and it appears we are......
    PARADISE IS POSSIBLE EVERYWHERE 4 EVERYONE

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