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Thread: Healing Help Please

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    Avalon Member Bob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Quote One thing I did remember though, is the neighbor has an old John Deere which really puts out some major diesel exhaust. He went round and round their pasture, while bush-hogging his own pasture. His machine really puts out a LOT of noxious smoke. There's not a lot I can do about that till next time and move the horses.
    So a lot of dirt was stirred up resulting in inhaled particles of somethings. Soil bacteria or fungus. Or both. Copd presents that way with fungus if it persists after antibiotic treatment. Diesel particulates would after a very long term not in a short term
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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    The vet is coming out this morning to check on Frysta. Please hold her in the highest light and hope. She is such a sweet mare and we have lots left to do in this life.

    I'll keep you posted.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Well, we still don't know what is wrong with her. The vet took blood for a comprehensive work-up. I will hear back today.

    Keep Frysta in your prayers.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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  7. Link to Post #44
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Okay, she's been on antibiotics since October 2 and still breathing rapidly. Although she 24/7 access to both pasture and an open, well ventilated stable, I took her out yesterday and walked her around the property for maybe 5 minutes at a leisurely pace, with an eye toward lunging her as I thought it might make her feel better.

    Her nostrils were flaring from that small exertion so I nixed the lunging. She has no fever.

    Her bloodwork is showing high levels of Fibrinogen, even higher than the first blood draw, in spite of being on the antibiotics for about eight days at the point the second round of blood was drawn. Also high are her Monocytes, Basophils and Plasma protein.

    The vet is loathe to give her coricosteroids, as there is a connection with laminitis, a painful and debilitating hoof condition which you don't ever want to manifest.

    Any vets out there? The plan is to keep her on the antibiotics until Tuesday, when the vet comes out again (the third time in two weeks).

    Everything indicates inflammation. The vet is baffled and said five other horses she is treating have the same rapid breathing and symptoms. We were hoping the cool, dry weather of the last two days would relieve some of the symptoms.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Hi Valerie,

    Iíve used Metacam, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory. Itís pretty effective although can be hard on the kidneys. Unless youíre using it for months, it should be ok.

    https://www.vet-medic.com/downloads/...-datasheet.pdf

    Good wishes!

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Hi Val, how are you and Frysta holding up?

    Has your vet considered submitting samples for LSU's veterinary diagnostics lab to have them do the needed full workup to see what is going on? Viral, fungal, bacterial and what should be the treatment?

    https://www.lsu.edu/vetmed/veterinar...a/services.php - Equine services
    https://www.lsu.edu/vetmed/veterinar...path/index.php - clinical diagnostics

    Their phone number - Horses and farm animals 225-578-9500 https://www.lsu.edu/vetmed/laddl/

    Eastern Equine Encephalitis (EEE) virus keeps coming up on searches - do you vaccinate?
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  13. Link to Post #47
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Aren't you a doll? She is actually better today.

    I panicked yesterday as the vet prescribed an anti-inflammatory orally. I noticed yesterday she was breathing harder than ever, after two, every 12 hour doses. I realized after a few hours of reflection, that it was to her system, like us taking anti-allergy medicine and was probably making her speed. The vet confirmed.

    Still no temp. I'm actually going out to check on the two little witches in a minute. But Frysta seems much better.

    Thank you for asking.

    The vet is coming back out on Tuesday. More blood and then we'll know for sure. She is a really good vet. A real little pistol.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Damn, still breathing way too hard. Way too hard and too fast.

    LSU is the gold standard. My vet's also a crackerjack and if she can't solve it, that's the next step.

    I didn't give her any anti-inflammatory doses today as it seemed to exacerbate the problem.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Wondering then about cardiac issues - was deworming done for the Fall season? Apparently two seasons, one in the spring and one in the fall are done.. Infected mosquitoes ? Lungworm maybe?

    https://stablemanagement.com/article...s-horses-26641 (horses can suffer respiratory irritation/bronchitis. Eggs and larvae of Dictyocaulus arnfieldi will not be present in feces, making them difficult to identify as the definitive cause of respiratory disease in the horse.)
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  19. Link to Post #50
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Thanks Bob. Yes, she gets wormed twice a year, after a fecal sample is taken by the vet and she determines she has worms. Horses used to be wormed every sixty days, but the worms were becoming immune to the medicine and getting stronger, so now they are checked twice yearly and wormed accordingly.

    I, too have thought about cardio issues, regarding her heart also, but all indications are lung related. Very frustrating but we are still trying to get to the bottom of it, many dollars and time later and counting.

    The vet is coming back out tomorrow. I pray it is nothing serious. More blood.

    I'll mention the lung worm issue, as there was a donkey in the pasture next door, that got into ours about a year ago. I don't know how long the worms take to grow and become a problem.

    Sigh, she's always been such a hardy little thing.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    OK the lung worm, cause of the donkey.. That seems to be the indication, with bronchial, not actual lung infestation, but bronchial, describing the symptoms.. Ivermectin they are saying is one, but obviously the vet would know with her condition, what not to stress her with..

    Maybe with stuff being stirred up egg cysts could have been inhaled, dunno.. Lung worm won't show up in the stools..
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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    After reading about lungworms, you may be right. Not only did the donkey get into our pasture last year, but his son, the mule, got into our pasture about three times two months ago.

    Off to buy more de-worming medicine, which won't hurt. Twice in two weeks is okay, just to make sure.

    Thank you Bob. In all my searches, I never came across that explanation.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    When I understand what the symptoms are and what has and hasn't been checked, and reactions such as to the anti-inflammatory, I can connect the dots and offer some thoughts. The donkey most likely could very well be the culprit and the Mule, or was it a Hiney? Those eggs and larvae maybe last a long time in the soil... We had a donkey and some horses at my other location in Colorado for some years, and the donkey wasn't infected TG.. Love hanging with the horses more than the donkey, she was pretty strange.. But, something got kicked up and breathed in I think.. I could be totally wrong, but this is just going down the list of symptoms and what may be the instigator..

    But maybe look up specifically the treatment for that lungworm and contra-indications, like what may kick in with an already stressed horse, which is why the Vet may need to be on-line with that.. Maybe there can be a blood test for that particular worm.. They say it would be bronchial so I just don't know for instance if Ivermectin if that is what is chosen for deworming would get there.. And a worm die-off, is that going to create even more coughing or allergic response? That's where a good discussion with the vet may be needed as to what to do when certain reactions start happening.. Worm die-off is miserable no matter what species has the condition..
    Last edited by Bob; 15th October 2018 at 21:17.
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  27. Link to Post #54
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Bob, first it was a donkey which got into the pasture with her last year. He was in there all night. A jack. So, we had to call the vet who gave her a "morning after" shot. After reading about lungworms, they say once a pasture is infected, they come back every year. Normal treatment is Ivermectin, but as I explained above, the vet believes in strategic worming as opposed to automatic, because constantly worming just makes the buggers more resistant to treatment.

    So, we test three times a year for worms. She had worms (the type has not been determined) and she got wormed with an all spectrum de-wormer around the same time she began manifesting the bronchial and infection symptoms. The wormer she got should take care of the worms, but bacterial pneumonia can be a secondary symptom of her fighting off the worm infestation before she got treated.

    So, if that is the cause, she should be okay. Believe it or not, that would actually be the best of all respiratory issues. Fungus, virus and mold issues are a whole other can of worms.

    Then, to top it off, Leroy the donkey got the neighbor's mare pregnant (our neighbor said he didn't think the donkey could reach the mare. Not a realistic expectation. When animals want to mate, they will find a way). The neighbor's mare had a mule, which can also harbor and pass lungworms. Well, three months ago, he (Leroy, Jr.) got into our pastures three times. So, they could have come from him.

    Leroy seems to have given the gift that keeps on giving, over and over.

    The vet is coming tomorrow morning. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Your explanation or possibility was a viable one I had not considered before. Many, many thanks for that.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Brainstorming hereÖ with a preventive measure for the future.

    Treat the land with diatomaceous earth where the four-legged friend kicked up the worm-types?

    What does diatomaceous earth kill?

    Diatomaceous earth kills all bugs. It has been reported to be the most effective solution when fighting pests like fleas, ants and bed bugs. Farmers dump food grade diatomaceous earth by big scoops in with grains when the grains are stored. It kills the insects that want to feast on the grain.
    Can you mix diatomaceous earth with water and spray it?

    To apply with water, mix ľ cup of DE in a gallon of water and apply to the lawn and/or shrubs where pest problems exist. The wet spray method does work but only after the liquid has dried. Mix from 1-4 tablespoons DE per gallon of water and spray on the lawn, shrubs, tree trunks and building foundations.

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Thanks Running Deer. I just went out to check on her and now she has a thick, wet gurgling sound when she breathes. She discharged a thick, yellow mucus this morning and is breathing so hard it hurts me to look at her.

    I'm trying not to be worried because I have given her the best of care and there's more to come, I'm afraid. It's difficult and expensive to diagnose a horse.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    I'm trying not to be worried because I have given her the best of care and there's more to come, I'm afraid. It's difficult and expensive to diagnose a horse.
    Thereís no doubt, Frysta has lots and lots of love, care and training.


    For new comers to the thread, I'll add the video that Valerie posted of Frysta.

    Incredible Natural Horsemanship! -- Frysta

    Last edited by RunningDeer; 16th October 2018 at 06:14.

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Well I would give the vet a call on the breathing and discharge change. If they haven't yet cultured the secretion they do need to do that

    To me it makes no sense to have a vet say don't treat if there is a symptom looking like bronchial lungworms specifically with the mule and donkey in your pasture.

    Worms come when exposed and that can happen if the neighbors dirt was stirred up. Back to what sounds like bronchial pneumonia kicking in now by your description makes me wonder what is the vet missing. One does cultures, enzyme tests and doesn't put it off..

    Just de-worming twice is great for regular exposure but I seriously doubt from what I am hearing that your vet has any experience with lungworms, dunno maybe she does or doesn't but your horse is still sick after numerous vet visits.

    Me, I would call the folks at LSU vet college and ask them, when u describe the symptoms and exposure to the donkey and mule. That's just me.
    Last edited by Bob; 15th October 2018 at 23:05.
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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    I didn't know you could just call them. And they would actually speak to you. I can promise I'll do that tomorrow. Thank you.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Healing Help Please

    Iím so sorry Frysta is still suffering. Itís so difficult when we canít get to root causes easily. Medicine is an art more than a science.

    If Frysta is gurgling, you might need to give her furosemide to reduce fluid build up. This can be a saver.

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