Cost of living in the US

[AutumnW]

I live in an insanely expensive province, in an expensive country. Thanks to you, Bobme, for starting this thread. What you are describing is constantly on my mind. It never leaves. I am in my early sixties now and went through crushing poverty during a deep recession when I left home at 18 years of age.

I was also dealing with the first stage of disease that nobody, including me, understood at the time. For that reason, I am always nervous about money and not having enough. As it turns out, I will likely be okay, financially, but I worry to the point of obsession for my family and friends. (And of course have real concerns about people in aggregate.)

The constant barrage of managed news, complete with doctored statistics telling us how,"great" the economy is, closely resembles Tass and Pravda's coverage of Russia. Even when things were dire, coverage, pre-Soviet political and economic collapse, described it as all sunshine.

So to answer your question, I think it it is pure propaganda and everyone has to start asking their neighbours and casual acquaintances, without being too invasive, if they are actually doing any better.

Most people are working in the service industry and they are not doing well. The incomes of hedge fund managers and others who are wealthy off the backs of minimum wage employees working within their oligopolies, create a statistical impression of well being. But that is only if the stats are massaged a certain way.

Best of luck to all who grind away at ****ty jobs at lousy pay who have to put up with the anarchy prevention programs that have become the daily news.

[scotslad]

Taking it all one step further, drilling down the comparisons of Economy...

Cost of living in Turkey compared to United States

Food - 65%
Housing - 76%
Clothes - 43%
Transportation - 44%
Personal Care - 67%
Entertainment - 60%
TOTAL - 62% cheaper in Turkey than USA
These prices were last updated less than a minute ago. Exchange rate: 0.17028 USD / TRY

Cost of living in United Kingdom compared to United States
Food - 14%
Housing - 1%
Clothes + 7%
Transportation + 41%
Personal Care - 26%
Entertainment - 4%
TOTAL + 5% MORE EXPENSIVE
These prices were last updated 36 minutes ago. Exchange rate: 1.315 USD / GBP

Cost of living in Ecuador compared to United States
Food - 40%
Housing - 60%
Clothes + 33%
Transportation - 46%
Personal Care - 36%
Entertainment - 2%
TOTAL - 39% cheaper in Ecuador
These prices were last updated 38 minutes ago.
This comparison is based on abundant and consistent data. It is based on 93,747 prices entered by 14,122 different people.

Cost of living in Turkey compared to Ecuador
Food - 42%
Housing - 40%
Clothes - 57%
Transportation + 5%
Personal Care - 49%
Entertainment - 59%
TOTAL - 38% cheaper in Turkey than Equador
These prices were last updated 3 minutes ago. Exchange rate: 0.17028 USD / TRY
This comparison is based on abundant and consistent data. It is based on 12,488 prices entered by 1,472 different people.

Lets all move to turkey

Cheap as chips, cheaper than ebay & all genuine fakes

(Now I sound like a local market trader)

[bobme]

Nailed it DeDukshyn.

Spoken better than I can.

[Tam]

Well, here's how I look at it.

Now, first things first, the US is a massive, continental country. Things vary wildly from state to state, city to city, rural to urban, in all ways, including, of course, cost of living. So there is no general cost of living, or generalized guideline. Each state may as well be its own country, and each county also varies, and also each city, etc.

But even with all of that taken into account, it is very expensive to live in America.

For starters, let's look at none other than our abysmal scam of a healthcare system. You pay out the ass for insurance (my family pays about $600 monthly for a mid-tier plan, and this does not factor in the deductible), yet we still regularly pay 30-80 dollars for each doctor visit, about 50 bucks of each time we need medicine (but it can and will get in the triple digits), and when we see a specialist, well, that costs us a whole hell of a lot more. For example, I need to get an MRI of my brain (don't worry, it's nothing severe--probably), and that is going to cost them about 800 dollars out of pocket. Sans insurance? About 3 grand. And the only reason they can afford that is because my father brings home a good living.

My boyfriend, on the other hand, is paid well for someone who has no degree (I'll get to that later), but he has repeatedly put important health stuff on hold because of the astronomical cost of healthcare. His workplace offers an insurance package, so his monthly payment is minimal (no way in hell could he afford what my parents pay, unless he wants to live off of top ramen), but the caveat is that he pays a stupid amount of money extra each time he needs a thing done. He has eczema, which means he needs expensive creams to use once in a while when it gets really bad, and the tube, which is the size of a travel tube of toothpaste, costs about 100 bucks. He's meant to smear that all over his body, so his covets it like it's gold and uses it only in emergencies, squeezing out every last drop.

Funny thing is, he needed a refill a few months back, went to get it, and it somehow only cost $15. His insurance never changed, nor did his plan, nor did the product. I remember pulling into the pharmacy, handing him a wad of cash to help him with the payment because money was tight on his end, and being told at the counter that the total was about 18 with the tax. We have no idea why it dropped so much; change in owners, or perhaps some wonderful administrative error? We didn't care; we just paid for it and left as fast as possible.

But even on happy days like that one, the fact that we were practically jumping for joy because his stupid cream rivaled the cost of gold per ounce is outrageous. Don't even get me started on the allergy tests he needed (hint: it would have cost upwards of 1200 bucks out of pocket to get jabbed by needles 50 times to see how red he gets. We didn't do the test).

My grandmother in France, on the other hand, doesn't pay a cent for anything she does medically, and let me tell you, she is not in good health. She sees a doctor once a week, and several specialists a month.

If she were to do that here, it would cost her tens of thousands of dollars monthly. And if you don't pay those bills, well, they ding your credit (so kiss any loan you might need goodbye, which means no car or house for you), then send collections after you to harass you day in and day out with letters and phone calls.

Screw the lot of them.

And should you want a higher education, because you don't want to struggle financially for the rest of your life, well, that will cost you anywhere from 18,000 to 80,000 a year for the tuition alone. Textbooks? Throw in about 600-1000 bucks a year, easy (a lot more in some majors). Parking pass? 400 dollars a semester ain't unheard of. Need to stay in a dormitory, which is mandatory for freshmen? Tack on an extra 5,000 dollars a year for the most basic package (in other words, communal bathrooms), and that does not include the meal plan.

So the majority of us have no choice but to take on loans, which come with fat interest rates. And you can't declare bankrupcty on them too. Only one of their kind. Oh, and if you're married, your spouse is legally tied to those as well. So try not to die or anything.

So you see, while it may appear that we have much larger homes for less in rural areas (cities are a whole other ball game), or super cheap gas, we more than make up for it in other areas.


Oh, and we still pay taxes. A lot of taxes. Great use of the money, US government.

[Flash]

This is exactly why i do not know many Canadians who would want to live in the US, except for more clement weather down south. I do not know many Europeans who would want to move in the US either, once they know the health care conditions and the schooling fees.

And American still believe that most of the planet want to live in USA - well not so, if one is from a developed country.

As for people from the poor countries, they want to live anywhere in the world were they have a chance at survival, who can blame them.

[Valerie Villars]

And should you want a higher education, because you don't want to struggle financially for the rest of your life, well, that will cost you anywhere from 18,000 to 80,000 a year for the tuition alone. Textbooks? Throw in about 600-1000 bucks a year, easy (a lot more in some majors). Parking pass? 400 dollars a semester ain't unheard of. Need to stay in a dormitory, which is mandatory for freshmen? Tack on an extra 5,000 dollars a year for the most basic package (in other words, communal bathrooms), and that does not include the meal plan.

So the majority of us have no choice but to take on loans, which come with fat interest rates. And you can't declare bankrupcty on them too. Only one of their kind. Oh, and if you're married, your spouse is legally tied to those as well. So try not to die or anything.

Indigris, you are right. This is a very sore issue for me.

I borrowed about 20,000 in the early 90's to go back to school to study nursing so I would have a good living with which to support myself and my son. I had to withdraw from school due to a death.

I paid back approximately 25,000 and now am unable to work. Guess how much I still owe? About 36,000. No way to get out of it and no way to pay.

I just found out this past week that they won't even loan students enough on their own for tuition, so now they have Parent Student Loans, which means they have everyone in the family on the hook for higher education. Brilliant, isn't it? It wasn't enough to just have the poor student saddled with more debt than they can ever repay, but now the parents in their "golden years" have to struggle and remain shackled to the system. Just so the kids can get a 40,000 a year job.

Oh, and my sister and her husband were paying 1200.00 a month for health insurance for themselves and their three children, until the "child" is 26 years old. Again, keeping the parents so shackled with debt, they can't get out from under.

[scotslad]

Living in the north east of scotland, I confess....

....I havent seen a police car all year.
....I havent locked my front door in 15 years.
....I leave the keys in my car every night.
....There are no rockets, explosions or bombs going off in my neighbourhood.
....Crime is very low.
....Insurance payments are lowish.
....Healthcare is free.
....we voted for brexit, but the govt is trying its damnest to brainwash the publish into remaining
....The govt takes nearly £8 out of every £10 spent on fuel for the car
....The Govt takes 70%+ out of every bottle of whisky
....We apparently get hit for 53 taxes in the course of every month from income tax, to Value added tax, to excise duty, road tax etc etc etc.
....We dont own our cars - we are the registered keepers
....We get tricked to adopt LEGAL FICTION names by government & institution legal threads or "Invitations to do business" at their place of business
....We pay COUNCIL TAX without having signed any legal agreements
....We watch as our Local COUNCIL/authority reduces services, hikes up local taxes and pays bigger pensions, salaries & bonuses to its senior staff
....We get tricked to repay loans on financial instruments that we create with our signatures
....We are hoodwinked & manipulated by our national press, radio and TV
....Our kids are getting dumbed down by our educationalists, and our national companies bought over by international conglomorates
....Our sacred sites are being turned into tourist attractions with burger vans and Latte coffees for £3+ a cup
....Communities providing housing to "immigrants" from other side of the world
....Why can a german retailer sell a loaf here for 27p and TESCO one of our biggest retailers still carge £1+
....Our kids are not awarded a 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in our school sports day - noone is allowed to lose
....transagenda being promoted everywhere- hell be what you want to be

Economy? Economy?

....Are we really free, living the life and lifestyle we really wanted and chose to reincarnate and experience in this 3 dimensional plane on this apparent time line?

Or is an agenda being opposed in each sovereign state/country in a systematic pan global agenda designed to keep us non-royal blood lines as low in the pecking order and constantly in fear - who knows? what do you think?

[Flash]

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)

And should you want a higher education, because you don't want to struggle financially for the rest of your life, well, that will cost you anywhere from 18,000 to 80,000 a year for the tuition alone. Textbooks? Throw in about 600-1000 bucks a year, easy (a lot more in some majors). Parking pass? 400 dollars a semester ain't unheard of. Need to stay in a dormitory, which is mandatory for freshmen? Tack on an extra 5,000 dollars a year for the most basic package (in other words, communal bathrooms), and that does not include the meal plan.

So the majority of us have no choice but to take on loans, which come with fat interest rates. And you can't declare bankrupcty on them too. Only one of their kind. Oh, and if you're married, your spouse is legally tied to those as well. So try not to die or anything.

Indigris, you are right. This is a very sore issue for me.

I borrowed about 20,000 in the early 90's to go back to school to study nursing so I would have a good living with which to support myself and my son. I had to withdraw from school due to a death.

I paid back approximately 25,000 and now am unable to work. Guess how much I still owe? About 36,000. No way to get out of it and no way to pay.

I just found out this past week that they won't even loan students enough on their own for tuition, so now they have Parent Student Loans, which means they have everyone in the family on the hook for higher education. Brilliant, isn't it? It wasn't enough to just have the poor student saddled with more debt than they can ever repay, but now the parents in their "golden years" have to struggle and remain shackled to the system. Just so the kids can get a 40,000 a year job.

Oh, and my sister and her husband were paying 1200.00 a month for health insurance for themselves and their three children, until the "child" is 26 years old. Again, keeping the parents so shackled with debt, they can't get out from under.

When I think that my daughter pays 300$ a semester for a College degree and it would be about 1,500$ for a Bachelor degree in a Canadian University. Which would make her whole post secondary education cost at 1,800 for a college degree + 9,000$ for a university degree = 10,800$ for total tuition and a bachelor degree + books 1000/ year max, because students recycle the books, about 5,000 altogether, plus a computer that they would have anyhow - but some are also available for students on college premises, board and room not included, nor transportation.

I know a lot a students who work 15 - 20 hours a week, go full time to school, have a heavy schedule for a while but end up with about 5,000$ student debts if any. This is how I paid for my bachelor degree. I had no debts when I graduated.

And, we won't be soaked in back payments of anything because of sickness, because of family health problems. What still drags family back though is treatments for addictions, this is not always covered.

[TargeT]

When living in the US, unless you have won the genetic lottery and were born with an advantage (family money etc..); when you follow the average path (the socially programmed path that is), you'll barely scrape by or fail.

Living in the US is all about thinking outside the box & not being afraid to act / commit and do something novel.

IDK what the hell most people in this thread are talking about, I've been a lot of places and never would want to live anywhere else (EU/CAN included).

I don't have a degree, I quit going to college when I found out it was a waste of time... I've started several businesses (not all successfully, learned a lot of lessons). Not sure where else I would have had the opportunity to do all I have... most people just don't take advantage of whats out there.

[AriG]

I have had experience in decision making management roles wherein I was required to ensure that we were not paying g talent more than the next employer, regardless of the individual’s contribution to the bottom line and the success of the company. Wage surveys, forced rankings ( where you literally rank one peer against the other) and other dehumanizing practices were the norm. ANd here’s why- when you have a large percentage of employers and companies being publicly traded on the various exchanges, they have a fiduciary/legal obligation to return dividends and profit to the investors- be they private or institutional. And when the exchanges continually expect growth in declining economies, those quarterly and year over year improvements are garnered through the blood sweat and tears of the people actually working versus speculating- hence, no wage increases and suppressed wages that are not in line with cost of living let alone merit based compensation. That’s the surface answer. the behind the scenes answer is that an archonic system seeks to equalize all participants- and soon, with AI, even hedge fund pigs and speculators will be fodder for the machine and only the very top will live in any semblance of comfort. of course, you could do as I have been. Eliminate debt, buy some land and change your expectations. I haven’t had a vacation since 2012. I don’t shop the “high street”. I shop the thrift and grow my own food. hubby has a good job and that is being squirreled. My gigs are for animal feed and we rarely eat out. it’s critical mass time if you don’t want to be marginalized into a government housing block. As my grandmother used to quote Aesop’s Fables “ be an ant”. here’s some info on wage suppression https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/o...ing-wages.html

[bobme]

..Very true all posts. And sad.

We have a garden also to grow our own food. But lately we are having much over spray from the field behind us,from roundup. It really messes everything up.

Also the neibors tried to get a honey bee hive going. The hive died out. Of couse, GMO crops planted. Very frustrating.

Thanks all.

[AriG]

Posted by bobme (here)
..Very true all posts. And sad.

We have a garden also to grow our own food. But lately we are having much over spray from the field behind us,from roundup. It really messes everything up.

Also the neibors tried to get a honey bee hive going. The hive died out. Of couse, GMO crops planted. Very frustrating.

Thanks all.

My advice would be to plant at least three rows of cilantro around your plot but do not harvest to eat. This will help absorb overspray.

We also have an apiary. Italian honey bees. Not sure where you are but it has been an incredibly wet year. I would advise that you relocate your hives against the neighbors prevailing poison spray and also feed pollen patties and am2:1 sugar mix to strengthen. Also check for varroa notes by sprinkling powdered sugar on about 200 scooped up bees into a jar. Colony collapse disorder is multi layered with drivers such as round up, varroa, small hive beetle and American foul rood as potential contributors.

[Flash]

Posted by TargeT (here)
When living in the US, unless you have won the genetic lottery and were born with an advantage (family money etc..); when you follow the average path (the socially programmed path that is), you'll barely scrape by or fail.

Living in the US is all about thinking outside the box & not being afraid to act / commit and do something novel.

IDK what the hell most people in this thread are talking about, I've been a lot of places and never would want to live anywhere else (EU/CAN included).

I don't have a degree, I quit going to college when I found out it was a waste of time... I've started several businesses (not all successfully, learned a lot of lessons). Not sure where else I would have had the opportunity to do all I have... most people just don't take advantage of whats out there.

In Canada you could of.... I did.

300$ to start a business, all you need is ideas. Yes, out of the box.

Plus: free medicare, lots of services for an handicap child if you have any, you will bleed yourself for alternative treatments, but not for traditional one which are often useful too. And basically free schooling.

But, if you do not want to go to school, you can still start a business and be successful.

Much more complicated in France, this I know.

But hey, I will not have any thanks on this forum if I say that somewhere else can be better than the US for all of us, not just a small bunch.

You are brainwashed guys. And do not have such extended experience, in my opinion - and yes, I have seen enough of the US to know. This is not ignorance talking here.

And yes, I like Americans, but I prefer living here in Canada anytime.

In the US, with all I gave to my daughter, and a lot was over and above anything I received free or at low cost, I would still be in the street with my shopping cart going around - because what I got was really essential for her and it would have been way over my possibiilites without those free bees. All this while managing my training business to make enough money to afford what I did not get for free.

And it ends up being much less expensive for anyone, and for everyone, than to pay for insurances of all kinds.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Posted by scotslad (here)
Taking it all one step further, drilling down the comparisons of Economy...

Cost of living in Turkey compared to United States

This data doesn't really say much because it combines averages across entire nations, where cost of living varies greatly from one place to another.

For example, there is a larger difference between urban areas and rural areas, than between many countries that have been averaged together as a whole.



See this map. The cost of living is much greater in the liberal states with big urban sprawls, essentially New England and the Left Coast.

Here are the wages required to rent 2-bedroom housing per state averages:




You can see there, you need to make $13/hr on average to afford to live in 2-bedroom housing in West Virginia, or $16.62 in Texas, but you need to make $26.65/hr to live in equivalent housing in California, and an average of $25.67 in New York. Housing is nearly twice as expensive in California as it is in Texas..

These liberal cities/states are, by the way, also generally the dirtiest places in the US, with the highest rates of crime and homelessness. Los Angeles is developing quite a reputation for feces on its public sidewalks at present, even with mobile apps to report sidewalk feces so the city can try to clean it up as it happens.


The United Kingdom shows a similar pattern:



You will learn more about cost of living comparing smaller locations in this way, than you will by averaging entire countries and comparing them that way.

In the United States, it is the rural and more conservative areas that are seeing the most economic stimulus. West Virginia and Pennsylvania are seeing coal mining booms currently, for obvious reasons (gutting of EPA). Manufacturing plants are being built in various other states across the South and Rust Belt, but these will take time to finish and begin employing people. In the mean time, steel plants have also been reopening and hiring additional people.

If you live in a city or state with high taxes and lots of regulation, you are unlikely to see much change, for multiple reasons, including how large and diverse these urban economies are already. To affect any noticeable change on a scale that large takes time and massive amounts of actual work. Standards of living don't just spring magically from the air. God forbid, they require human beings to perform labor, including manual labor, and having to clean up sidewalk poop or deal with enormous rates of crime is hardly the kind of labor you want money pouring into.

[TargeT]

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)

You will learn more about cost of living comparing smaller locations in this way, than you will by averaging entire countries and comparing them that way.

In the United States, it is the rural and more conservative areas that are seeing the most economic stimulus.

I always lived in small towns or "the country" so maybe my view is more in line with that aspect (THE VAST MAJORITY) of the US.

I've been to "the cities" but never saw them as "a home", never wanted to stay longer than a visit; they are dehumanizing & expensive (won't even get into the crazy political ideas and restrictive laws)? No thanks!

Saying anything about the US "as a whole" is just a mistake... it's drastically different due to an enormous geographical foot print; hell we barely even speak the same language even when it's "still English".


Besides, look at the REST (50% at least) of the world (that survives on $5.50 a day, roughly).... interestingly enough both people are roughly the same "happy"; but I like my toys and safety and convenience.. I wouldn't have it any other way.


But then I'm a fan of appreciating what I have, not complaining about what "could be" .

[bobme]

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)

Posted by scotslad (here)
Taking it all one step further, drilling down the comparisons of Economy...

Cost of living in Turkey compared to United States

This data doesn't really say much because it combines averages across entire nations, where cost of living varies greatly from one place to another.

For example, there is a larger difference between urban areas and rural areas, than between many countries that have been averaged together as a whole.



See this map. The cost of living is much greater in the liberal states with big urban sprawls, essentially New England and the Left Coast.

Here are the wages required to rent 2-bedroom housing per state averages:




You can see there, you need to make $13/hr on average to afford to live in 2-bedroom housing in West Virginia, or $16.62 in Texas, but you need to make $26.65/hr to live in equivalent housing in California, and an average of $25.67 in New York. Housing is nearly twice as expensive in California as it is in Texas..

These liberal cities/states are, by the way, also generally the dirtiest places in the US, with the highest rates of crime and homelessness. Los Angeles is developing quite a reputation for feces on its public sidewalks at present, even with mobile apps to report sidewalk feces so the city can try to clean it up as it happens.


The United Kingdom shows a similar pattern:



You will learn more about cost of living comparing smaller locations in this way, than you will by averaging entire countries and comparing them that way.

In the United States, it is the rural and more conservative areas that are seeing the most economic stimulus. West Virginia and Pennsylvania are seeing coal mining booms currently, for obvious reasons (gutting of EPA). Manufacturing plants are being built in various other states across the South and Rust Belt, but these will take time to finish and begin employing people. In the mean time, steel plants have also been reopening and hiring additional people.

If you live in a city or state with high taxes and lots of regulation, you are unlikely to see much change, for multiple reasons, including how large and diverse these urban economies are already. To affect any noticeable change on a scale that large takes time and massive amounts of actual work. Standards of living don't just spring magically from the air. God forbid, they require human beings to perform labor, including manual labor, and having to clean up sidewalk poop or deal with enormous rates of crime is hardly the kind of labor you want money pouring into.

But in reality, what else can you afford? What is the minimum wage in these areas?

Say you have one child, and a spouse for this 2 bedroom apartment. How much is your grocery bill, gas for work travel & grocery travel, heat, electric, trash fees, doctor bills, Gas for heat? What is left over for clothing, Auto repair, on and on.

Look up what prices for every thing was, when minimum wade was 1.50 an hour please.

You could buy a house, auto, and all the rest, with four kids & non working spouse.

That is what I am saying here.

Also to get into most buisnesses, you need liscence, and insurance. Good luck on minimum wage on those factors, or two bedroom apartment requirement wages.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Posted by bobme (here)
But in reality, what else can you afford? What is the minimum wage in these areas?

Say you have one child, and a spouse for this 2 bedroom apartment. How much is your grocery bill, gas for work travel & grocery travel, heat, electric, trash fees, doctor bills, Gas for heat? What is left over for clothing, Auto repair, on and on.

Everything tends to be cheaper in less densely populated areas. Gasoline is much cheaper, food is cheaper, cigarettes are cheaper... There are surely some exceptions to this, but the cost of living in rural areas is understood to generally be much lower than the cost of living in big cities.

And why would it be otherwise? It makes complete sense, if you understand economics, the law of supply and demand, and how price points are determined. When there is less demand, and people aren't willing to dish out the cash for something (for whatever reasons), you have to lower prices to make the same amount of profit. And that's what happens in rural areas.

Look up what prices for every thing was, when minimum wade was 1.50 an hour please.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Inflation is what has caused the price of everything to rise, and inflation doesn't impact everything equally. The housing market has been impacted worse by inflation than the cost of eggs, for example, and electronics prices have plummeted since the 1980s, bucking the trend of everything else.

Also to get into most buisnesses, you need liscence, and insurance. Good luck on minimum wage on those factors, or two bedroom apartment requirement wages.

In liberal areas, the requirements for running a business tend to be much stricter than that. Business licenses in my state are not that expensive and I believe they recur annually, so that's not such a big problem. But being required to pay for full coverage healthcare for all of your employees would completely wipe out many businesses, making them unprofitable and forcing them into bankruptcy.

That's why when Obamacare mandated employers pay for the healthcare of all full-time employees, lots of Americans suddenly found their hours cut back to part-time. Instead of getting "free healthcare," instead all they got was a smaller paycheck and less hours each week. And you can't always blame the employers for that. A lot of companies go bankrupt and entirely out of business because of these kinds of policies.

People on the left always think about the laborers, but they don't spend as much time considering the situation of the capitalist pig scum employers who are actually issuing the paychecks. It's not easy to run a business in a highly taxed and regulated area, and not only be responsible for your own livelihood, but providing paychecks and healthcare and everything else for all of your employers too. Even many of the largest corporations, that are household names, barely make a profit after all of their expenses are paid. Sears just went bankrupt, for example.

[AutumnW]

Posted by TargeT (here)
When living in the US, unless you have won the genetic lottery and were born with an advantage (family money etc..); when you follow the average path (the socially programmed path that is), you'll barely scrape by or fail.

Living in the US is all about thinking outside the box & not being afraid to act / commit and do something novel.

IDK what the hell most people in this thread are talking about, I've been a lot of places and never would want to live anywhere else (EU/CAN included).

I don't have a degree, I quit going to college when I found out it was a waste of time... I've started several businesses (not all successfully, learned a lot of lessons). Not sure where else I would have had the opportunity to do all I have... most people just don't take advantage of whats out there.

Let's all be you then!

[shaberon]

Posted by scotslad (here)
....The Govt takes 70%+ out of every bottle of whisky

Isn't this the major backbone of the modern system of offshore tax havens? More or less the beginning of the road to all we see, particularly as trans-Atlantic or global affairs.

[Innocent Warrior]

I’ve added what it costs here in Brisbane, QLD in red.

Posted by scotslad (here)
An interesting site - https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-l.../united-states has some interesting numbers.., (how true/accurate Im not sure, what do others think?) Also suspect it may vary from state to state?

Food
Basic lunchtime menu (including a drink) in the business district $14 $17
Combo meal in fast food restaurant (Big Mac Meal or similar) $8 $11
500 gr (1 lb.) of boneless chicken breast $4.56 $5.90
1 liter (1 qt.) of whole fat milk $0.90 $1.27
12 eggs, large $3.19 $5.20
1 kg (2 lb.) of tomatoes $4.00 $5.47
500 gr (16 oz.) of local cheese $6 $9
1 kg (2 lb.) of apples $3.36 $4:34
1 kg (2 lb.) of potatoes $1.61 $3.45
0.5 l (16 oz) domestic beer in the supermarket $3.21 $4.89
1 bottle of red table wine, good quality $15 $21
2 liters of Coca-Cola $1.93 $3.44
Bread for 2 people for 1 day $2.13 2.08

Housing
Monthly rent for 85 m2 (900 Sqft) furnished accommodation in EXPENSIVE area $2,032 $2,274
Monthly rent for 85 m2 (900 Sqft) furnished accommodation in NORMAL area $1,558 $1,859
Utilities 1 month (heating, electricity, gas ...) for 2 people in 85m2 flat $177 $209
Monthly rent for a 45 m2 (480 Sqft) furnished studio in EXPENSIVE area $1,567 $1,927
Monthly rent for a 45 m2 (480 Sqft) furnished studio in NORMAL area $1,114 $1,428
Utilities 1 month (heating, electricity, gas ...) for 1 person in 45 m2 (480 Sqft) studio $122 $132
Internet 8 Mbps (1 month) $48 $59
40” flat screen TV $336 $641
Microwave 800/900 Watt (Bosch, Panasonic, LG, Sharp, or equivalent brands) $120 $177
Laundry detergent (3 l. ~ 100 oz.) $11 $15
Hourly rate for cleaning help $23 $29

Clothes
1 pair of jeans (Levis 501 or similar) $47 $100
1 summer dress in a High Street Store (Zara, H&M or similar retailers) $45 $70
1 pair of sport shoes (Nike, Adidas, or equivalent brands) $85 $151
1 pair of men’s leather business shoes $114 $146

Transportation
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 TSI 150 CV (or equivalent), with no extras, new $22,211 $24,799
1 liter (1/4 gallon) of gas $0.76 $1.46
Monthly ticket public transport $85 $133

Personal Care
Cold medicine for 6 days (Tylenol, Frenadol, Coldrex, or equivalent brands) $7 $13
1 box of antibiotics (12 doses) $19 $12
Short visit to private Doctor (15 minutes) $113 $66
1 box of 32 tampons (Tampax, OB, ...) $7 $7
Deodorant, roll-on (50ml ~ 1.5 oz.) $3.49 $5.13
Hair shampoo 2-in-1 (400 ml ~ 12 oz.) $5.05 $7
4 rolls of toilet paper $3.40 $2.92
Tube of toothpaste $1.85 $3.52
Standard men's haircut in expat area of the city $21 $29

Entertainment
Basic dinner out for two in neighborhood pub $44 $58
2 tickets to the movies $25 $29
2 tickets to the theater (best available seats) $172 $240
Dinner for two at an Italian restaurant in the expat area including appetisers, main course, wine and dessert $79 $103
1 cocktail drink in downtown club $11 $17
Cappuccino in expat area of the city $4.84 $4.50
1 beer in neighbourhood pub (500ml or 1pt.) $5.82 $8
iPad Wi-Fi 128GB $429 $535
1 min. of prepaid mobile tariff (no discounts or plans) $0.32 $0.54
1 month of gym membership in business district $53 $59
1 package of Marlboro cigarettes $8 $29

Source.

So it’s expensive here but our minimum wage is $18.93 an hour, while it’s only $7.25 in the US. Working full time at that rate you’re taxed at around 12% in the US, that’s the same rate as Australia, earning up to $38,700 (next bracket is 22%).

So yeah, that’s tough going for Americans because it certainly isn’t easy going here with what we get paid. I’m guessing also that there’s a higher percentage of Americans who are on minimum wage than there are in Australia (although there’s a lot here too), since the system for higher education here isn’t so crippling (still tough going if you’re not from the city, living away from home, as many do). Last time I checked, there’s no big interest rates on student loans here, (fees but not terrible) and nobody else has to pay it if you die.

I’m wondering how difficult it is to get a trade in the US? And how well do they get paid? Seems to be the way to go? It varies greatly here, depending who you work for and what your trade is, but generally it’s a decent step up from minimum wage in Australia, maybe $5 and up more, but you have to live on very little while doing your apprenticeship.