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Thread: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    (Title extracted from Mariella Frostrup article - October 14th 2018)

    Here below is a (somewhat heavily) abridged version of a Mariella Frostrup response to an enquirer – whether real or imagined - on her sex/relationship column in today’s online version of The Observer, and I felt compelled to share some of the very insightful observations that she makes, as those that I have highlighted here could apply to all of us in some way or another, particularly when we are younger, and, how, over time --- and even in the present moment --- we can hope that we may have learned to realise through our life experience.

    These few lines really did leap out at me.

    Would my now 48 year old self have written like this to my 22 year old self? Now, I know I've figured it out for myself, pretty much I think, maybe I would have done.

    You can read the full article here if you like.

    Regardless of the actual context of the piece, on this occasion, for anybody younger in particular (say in their twenties possibly) or maybe even a little more world-experienced of any age there are some beautifully expressed phrases here that really do capture what it feels like to be human now, in this moment for me – there is great perspicacity here as well in some of those comments.

    And some, I think, really good advice.

    ******************************************************************

    “It’s not uncommon to harbour secrets from our past. Our post-Freudian society is all about expressing our darkest fears, but sometimes leaving territory undisturbed works equally well. So long as the only harm, if there is any, is to ourselves, I’d argue that we have a right to keep close to our chests whatever we choose.

    I know only too well how hard it is when you are young and your emotions override your ability for rational thought to put sensible distance between the present and the past.

    Part of growing up is about learning to display tolerance, empathy and understanding – qualities that can be hard to tap into during our more impetuous years, as anyone who’s tried to reason with a hormonal teenager will know. We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.

    It’s important to accept that little of what we feel and even experience is unique, but how we disseminate and gain wisdom from our encounters is of vital importance."
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    I believe we are all flawed creatures 100%.
    It is why my signature is this Edgar Cayce quote.
    "The conquering of self is truly greater than were one to conquer many worlds."


    I do believe we are better off if we know our flaws and embrace them as part of our human experience.
    Two authors contributed to my becoming aware of and now knowing that we are flawed to an extent that is mostly not negotiable.
    Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's "Michael Teachings" and Carlos Castaneda's works that speak of the need to stalk one self in order to over come a non-organic parasite that lives within all of us through a sort of peripheral possession.
    Castaneda never truly describes the different flavors of non-organic parasites that possess us, but Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's books do.

    These books magnify certain truths for one another, the result is understanding yourself better than you ever thought possible, and understanding your friends and family. It allows one to be at peace with things and to stop judging self destructive and or illogical behavior just because that behavior isn't your own.
    Last edited by DNA; 22nd October 2018 at 20:44.

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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    Flawed we may be but we are really awesome creatures. Each is a unit of consciousness as being from that which IS CONSCIOUSNESS . Eons ago we opted for experience and were allowed to develop Free Will. In the gradual descent in the heavier aspects we have forgotten what we are. We have had teachers sacrificing their bliss to show us the way.
    After many thousands of lives we are to inevitably become Cosmic Masters on the way, and this is only another beginning back to the the Source requiring millions of years.
    There books describing our origin and our passage.
    For the first I like the book written by Rex Collier "Defending Sacred Ground", and is still free on the internet.
    The glorious passage is in "The Nine Freedoms" the book which was recorded of the transmissions by Mars Sector Six through George King.

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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”



    This seems relevant

    "we are flawed creatures"... something many should reflect on IMHO..

    "leading the best lives we can" - well some think they are by their own egotistical perspective.. Is service to others in the equation at all?

    "often against considerable odds" - consider the current California wildfires, tens of thousands of people and lifestyles disrupted because of "stupidity".. It doesn't matter that there is this or that stupid one, there are many involved. Are those odds and challenges self imposed, that one chose to live in a fire-prone area who's safety is dictated by ego-centric self-centered busy-bodies who are interested in what local gossip is spread so that they remain in the "IN-CROWD" (i.e. California social status group).. more-so than actually "fixing" the problems behind the fires?

    I was and have been contemplating another thread to ask this question, but I think this thread will suffice..

    I ask this sincerely to the forum. (I doubt this thread will be seen, but I will ask it anyway)..

    If one had the power to stop the fires, should one?

    That's the question.

    To flavor it a bit, let me add this - what if stopping the fires lets one of the egocentric holier-than-thou celebrities to continue to be self-centered sadistic/masochistic abusers of their "loyal fans"?

    What if stopping the fires lets one of the California bribe takers continue to take bribes (not pointing any fingers, just saying what-if here).. ?

    What if stopping the fires lets one of the mothers with a newborne whose child may develop a cure for cancer live?

    Just some flavors, there are hundreds more..

    I ask this to open up a discussion about the statements in the thread, the points in the title, and use the California fires as the focal point for discussion..

    Please think on it and reply for a discussion .. tnx..

    --PS, obviously there are some biases in the setup of the questions, the 'flavors'.. but the main question remains, should the fires be stopped IF one actually had the way to do that.. it's philosophical, spiritual, personal, and is designed to get one to look past just one's own viewpoint, and into the 'allness' to look at 'purpose'..
    Last edited by Bob; 14th November 2018 at 03:33.

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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.” Bertrand Russell really identified the awful scale of the conundrum. It is always a work in progress and those of us who understand that certainties are not truly possible, we need to be more confident of our research, of our analysis - fight against the authoritarians and imposers, freedom is the one value we can all work towards.

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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)

    ..... but the main question remains, should the fires be stopped IF one actually had the way to do that.. it's philosophical, spiritual, personal, and is designed to get one to look past just one's own viewpoint, and into the 'allness' to look at 'purpose'..
    Well, ........... hundreds of firefighters are doing just that. It's true that they can't just wave a magic wand and .... poof, .... no more fire. But they are indeed doing everything they can to stop the fires.

    And so we have your question, Bob. On the one hand, you have man and machine hurling themselves at the fires that could take weeks to extinguish. On the other hand, you have Merlin with his magic wand that can put the fires out in the blink of an eye. What to do??? Or maybe there is some kind of middle ground? Perhaps Merlin should merely "help out" by making it rain a bit. And what of all the pain, suffering, death and destruction that the animals and Mother Nature has to endure? (knowing that these horrific fires are at the very least made worse by mankind).

    As the title of the thread says, "We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds". In any given circumstance, all we can do is what we think is best, at that particular time.

    But, in the end, let me say this, if I had some magical, ability to be Johnny-on-the-spot and extinguish the man made fires the moment they got started, I think I would.
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    Mike reminds us fools go in with certainty, the wise folk look carefully and question. Me, if I had a majik wand would do as you suggest Orph, probably make it rain.. A personal thing, I don't like people suffering.

    However do they suffer (do WE suffer) for a reason? Are we leading the best lives? Or are we striving to understand and we challenge ourselves and each challenge becomes greater and greater, not easier and easier?

    What if there were no "considerable odds?"

    Let's look at "odds" - In statistics, the odds for or odds of some event reflect the likelihood that the event will take place, while odds against reflect the likelihood that it will not.

    So I assume there is some pre-destiny with something that can have "odds" measured..

    If there are no odds at stake, is it just random? Do we just sail without a rudder, dealing (or not) moment by moment?

    If one has said, coming in, it's time that we work with that majik wand.. And then "reality" is setup to understand what happens when ONE wields the "majik wand".. what happens? Just random experiences here and there, and we "learn" or not doing this or that..

    I used the California fires as a dramatic model, as it effects so many.. One could just make a constructive or destructive action and see what the result is.

    It seems to me, this is where a concept of "ethics" may come in, looking at what happened before with prior action by others doing this or that or not doing this or that and then seeing or experiencing consequences.. Here we can look at, personal ethics or an assumed "group motivated ethics".. (laws seem to be a codification of group assumed cause/effect)..

    In science we assume physics laws are immutable. In human living we assume that human laws are bendable, depending on the social acceptance level of, what "forgiveness" or rehabilitation?

    So if one had a majik wand, and did the deed to stop the fires, would society consider that then a dangerous act? Of course that majik wand could evoke disaster if it had that much ability to alter cause/effect.. Would society shun, any such thing being used?

    Granted, the fire fighting efforts are attempts to alleviate or stop the fire, protect structure, save lives.. A given based on the limits of the tools available.. Is the majik wand also a tool, maybe more direct than for instance a water tanker?

    A stewardship exists where "officials" say, "they are the only ones" to fight the fire.. (this is a direct statement of fact by the Sheriff working in the Malibu/Woolsey fire) having stated that THEY ONLY will be the ones to deal with it, and no home-owners, no matter how qualified they are will be able to get in and "fight it" even if they are fighting to protect their own property..

    So that action stops one from helping if one desires to help, so some authority has ultimate 'say' over one's actions and they justify it that that "independent person" may harm themselves, so they "protect us" from ourselves.. A quandary?

    I am going to reference this thread on FREE WILL (or not) - https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1257103

    Free will may be one of the lessons to learn, if one goes in with a "pre-determined" lesson plan.. In complex issues (many variables, many possible outcomes) it may take some looking and introspection to see what is it that we were expected (or chose) to learn and/or experience when incarnating.. There is another thread asking, if you were incarnating WHAT is it you would be? Besides being then what is it that one would want to solve? (solve as in "what does it mean")

    So - what if we are not the flawed creatures, but if we came in as referees or coaches? Are we flawed, do we have to be flawed to incarnate in order to solve "being" this or that or doing this or that?

    With the fire question, if we are flawed, do we then not use the majik wand and see what happens, or do we use the majik wand and see what happens? When posed with such a question how would one act? Experience? or trying to say well "compassion says I SHOULD do it".. such a quandary again? Are we TAUGHT to be compassionate? And then act automatically?
    Last edited by Bob; 14th November 2018 at 06:03.

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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    Some people say they are able to connect with, or are at all times (24/7) connected to their high self. I have to take them at their word, for I don't have that connection. But anyway, this gives them an entirely different perspective on right vs wrong, good vs bad, and so on. When I say we are "flawed beings", I don't mean that in a good vs bad context. I simply mean that here in this 3D reality, we are indeed limited as to what we are able to do and what decisions we make. And we don't get to see "the big picture" either. So we do the best we can.

    To put a slightly different spin on this, I thought to myself -- suppose I were Spiderman, or The Flash. Would I dedicate my life to fighting crime, like they do in comic books and the movies? I came to the conclusion that no, I wouldn't. If I saw a crime happening right in front of me, then yes, I would intervene. But I wouldn't go out looking for people to save. I wouldn't try to "save the world".

    Which brought me back to the wildfire situation. I think if I had that magic wand, at first I would probably stop the wildfires, or at least help out. But over time, given that wildfires are constantly flaring up, and will continue to flare up, I think at some point, I would change my mind and stop using my magic wand.

    If I had the magic power, does that then make me responsible to save everybody all the time? By saving people, does that take away their own right to make their own decisions? I would have to decide when, where, and how, to use my magic. To quote from the Spiderman movie: "With great power, comes great responsibility". But regardless of whether I have the magic or not, in either case, the basic question remains: with different options available, a decision has to be made. Is there a correct decision?
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: “We are all flawed creatures leading the best lives we can, often against considerable odds.”

    I was recently told by a young woman currently working on a thesis on the human condition that she'd like to interview me, which came as something of a surprise, but perhaps I did have some reasonably insightful things to share, hence her interest. We'll see if anything transpires with that.

    Here's another fine article that attempts to elicit what lies behind the fears and anxieties, now more pronounced than ever, that beset a large number of people in society expressed as being, for want of a better phrase, the "comfortable class"; their susceptibility to those fears and suggests a deficit of - perhaps - any sort of real, or extrinsic exposure to brutality or maybe even physical danger.

    ------------------------------
    "..perhaps the most significant reason for the rise of the Frightened Class is modern consumer culture’s assault upon the millenary practice of providing the young with what Joseph Campbell called “adequate mythic instructio.” For Campbell myths are, above all, a means of inoculating the young against the angst of knowing we are all destined for decrepitude and death, as well as much inflicted cruelty during that march toward oblivion.

    These stories, he suggests, show the young how others have confronted their fears in the past and have learned to find meaning and coherence in the apparent absurdity of their situations. They drive home the message that there is nothing approaching vital plenitude and significant psychological growth without the repeated assumption of risk and a constant engagement with fear. In short, they instill in the young the idea that they are by no means alone in their existential dilemmas."
    ---------------------------------

    The Frightened Class by Thomas Harrington
    October 19, 2021

    Source: Brownstone Institute

    [Related: The Revolt of the Elites | Essay: Christopher Lasch published 1994 in Harpers]

    They’re all around us, especially those of us who live in relatively prosperous metropolitan neighborhoods in the US or Western Europe. Despite being—at least in material terms—among the most fortunate people who have ever walked the earth, they are very scared. And they want you to be very frightened too.

    Indeed, many of them see your refusal to be as frightened as they are about life’s inevitable risks as a grave problem which entitles them and their often powerful and influential fellow travelers to recur to all manner of authoritarian practices to insure that you adhere to their increasingly neurotic view of reality. [emphasis mine - TQ]

    This tendency has been in full bloom lately as the people who have sat safely behind their laptops during the last 20 months have harangued and threatened those who have been out on job sites and meatpacking plants mixing freely with others and the virus, to internalize their own obsessions.

    And when these supposedly ignorant others—whose storehouse of empirical evidence about the dangers of the virus easily outstrips that of the laptoppers—refuse to buckle to the demand to be scared, they are met with all sorts of opprobrium.

    Viewed in historical terms, it’s an odd phenomenon.

    For most of recorded time prosperity and education have been the gateway to a life of relative freedom from worry. But now, the people who most enjoy these benefits are, it seems, wracked with anxiety and, in the not infrequent way of many people suffering that plague, and hellbent on sharing their misery with others.

    The point here is not to belittle the very real costs of anxiety in the lives of many people, nor to dismiss it as a real public health concern. Rather, it is to ask how and why it is proliferating so rapidly among those who, at least on the surface, have less reason than the vast majority of their fellow human beings to suffer from it.

    There are, I think, a number of possible explanations.

    One way of explaining the phenomenon is in the context of income inequality and its devastating effects on the shape and size of the upper middle class, and those who still believe they have a realistic chance of joining its ranks. Those who have “made it” into that sub-group are deeply cognizant of the unstable nature of their status in a world of corporate buyouts and rampant layoffs. And they worry that they may not be able to provide their children with the ability to retain what they see, rightly or wrongly, as the only real version of the good life.

    Thus, when the people way up on top made the decision following September 11th to make the inducement of fear the cornerstone of political mobilization in an increasingly post-political and post-communal society, they found a ready reserve of support in this anxious if also relatively prosperous cohort of the population.

    And after two decades of having their already anxious inner selves massaged daily by an a steady drumbeat of fear (and a diet of Trump as Hitler for dessert) both they and their children fell like ripe fruit into the hands of those that wanted to sell them on the “unprecedented” threat posed by a disease that leaves 99.75% of its victims wonderfully alive.

    Adding another layer to this general phenomenon is the increasing isolation of our educated classes from “physicality” in both their work and communal lives.

    Until the 1990s it was virtually impossible for anyone other than the richest of the rich not to have any active or passive acquaintance with the world of physical work. Indeed, for the first three or four decades after World War II many of those who could financially afford to relieve their children of this acquaintance with physical work often did not do so, as they believed that knowing what it meant to sweat, ache, be crushingly bored and, not infrequently, humiliated during the course of the day was essential to gaining a more rounded and empathetic understanding of the human condition.

    All that ended when the financialization of the economy and the rise of the internet made what Christopher Lasch presciently termed the “rebellion of the elites a much more palpable possibility.”

    For example, very few of my students have ever worked during their summers in anything other than office jobs, often procured through family connections. They thus have little understanding, and hence little empathy, of just how brutal and demeaning daily work can be for so many people.

    This alienation from the physical can also be seen in family life. The predominant and seldom challenged edict of “go where the money is”—a virtual religion for those seeking upward advancement in US culture—has meant that large numbers of children now grow up far away from their extended families. However, we seldom talk about the built-in costs of subscribing to this ethos.

    To talk with and listen to grandparents, uncles and aunts on a regular basis and in person is very different from seeing these people in occasional choreographed holiday rituals, or from time-to-time on Zoom. In the first instance, the child is inserted into a milieu that, for better or worse, structures his understanding of how the world works and forces him to recognize his relationship to both the past, other people and their individual stories.

    Might they decide later, for very good reasons, to break for this particular network of narratives? Of course. But when they do so they will at least carry within the idea of a stable and rooted identity as a life goal, something that my discussions with students over the last decade have led me to believe many of them no longer see as a possibility, or even a need.

    The increasing distance between those working within the antiseptic confines of the information economy and those still earning their keep with their bodies has, moreover, led many of the former group into a state of enormous confusion regarding the distinction between words and deeds.

    To work in academia, as I have for the last three decades, is to be surrounded by people who truly believe that the words one exchanges with others are as existentially weighty and consequential as physical assaults upon the body. This not only shows how few of them have ever been in a real brawl, but how blind they are to the fundamental role that physical violence and/or the looming threat of its use has always played in the game of coercing the many to bend to the will of the few.

    And this is why so many of them, parroting the moralizing, if factually tenuous, talking points supplied to them by a deeply corrupt media establishment, are so nonplussed about the physical assaults upon people’s bodies now taking place in the name of “fighting Covid.” It is also why a disturbing number of those whom they teach truly believe that hearing someone utter a critique against an ideological construct that another person told them was good and correct is much more problematic than forcing someone to be injected with an experimental drug under the threat of losing their livelihood.

    But perhaps the most significant reason for the rise of the Frightened Class is modern consumer culture’s assault upon the millenary practice of providing the young with what Joseph Campbell called “adequate mythic instructio.” For Campbell myths are, above all, a means of inoculating the young against the angst of knowing we are all destined for decrepitude and death, as well as much inflicted cruelty during that march toward oblivion.

    These stories, he suggests, show the young how others have confronted their fears in the past and have learned to find meaning and coherence in the apparent absurdity of their situations. They drive home the message that there is nothing approaching vital plenitude and significant psychological growth without the repeated assumption of risk and a constant engagement with fear. In short, they instill in the young the idea that they are by no means alone in their existential dilemmas.

    From the point of view of consumer culture, however, a mythically-anchored person; that is, someone able to place their present struggles in a broad, coherent and historically-informed perspective, is a very troubling thing.

    Why?

    Because such people are much less amenable to the mostly fear-based pitches that drive the production and consumption of the often nonessential goods upon which the system depends for its continued growth and expansion. If an adolescent has heard stories that underscore the ubiquity of awkward feelings among people of his age, and how so many before them passed through these difficulties and became stronger and wiser, then he is much less likely to pine for the purchase of the “solution” to the problem proffered to him by commercial entities.

    It has been said that, over time, we tend to “become what we do.” It seems that after orchestrating campaign after campaign of fear on behalf of the truly powerful, the “literate” comfortable classes have come to believe their own schtick to the point where they have trouble understanding, or even tolerating, those who have always consumed their mercenarily-produced fear porn with a large helping of salt.

    Worse yet, these self-frightened elites seem to think they can now remedy their lack of credibility with those living outside their grim prison of angst by simply amping up the volume on the scare machine. I suspect they might be in for a bigger and much more “physical” set of responses than they ever imagined could come their way.
    Last edited by Tintin; 20th October 2021 at 12:21.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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